Loyola Marymount

[tower912]

As I was sitting in church before the start and contemplating holy things, this occurred to me.......

What if MU went full Loyola Marymount the rest of the way?     Just speed up tempo to a ridiculous degree, hit our shooters, and take the first good look.    MU is already playing poor defense.    Just bombs away, except when you have a wide open big underneath.     Make the way MU beat Creighton the norm.   Reset the offensive shot clock in practice to 12.    Push everything and get a shot up quick.   Have everybody go for every steal like JjJ. 

Personally, I don't think it is the long term answer.    However, if MU continues to play at both ends the way they have so far, it might be a fun experiment.     
Downsides that I see:    Shooters eventually miss.    Not enough defensive rebounding to start a fast break.  Not enough players.  (IMO, to play at that pace, we would need the 11 who started the season).    Once the other teams in the Big East adjust, they will just attack the rim even more aggressively, forcing MU to take the ball out of the basket and slowing the push to the other end. 

[Herman Cain]

I think it is a great idea.

[tower912]

Damn.   Time to re-think it. 

[mug644]

Obviously, hitting shots is key to that approach, and that is more likely when guys that are shooting are plenty open. That happened yesterday in large part because Luke was aggressive and effective inside, forcing the defense to sag and leave guys open.

It seemed to me that the pace was good, not racing, but moving the ball around the horn and inside and out. When a good shot was there, they took it. And hit most of them.

I think it was a game that showed how good the team can be, but it didn't show either how good it will be nor how it should play from here on out.

[Windyplayer]

Enticing! But Wojo wants to build a culture. Don't abandon it for short-term gain. We would also lose out on developing the underclassmen's defense.

[brewcity77]

I agree with Windy. My guess is we're ahead of schedule on the offense, but the ability to spread the floor, make threes, and work the inside through drives, back to the basket play, and mid-range shots when chased off the arc is how he wants us to play. Give the defense time, I think it can get there as well. Don't sacrifice the long game.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Give the defense time, I think it can get there as well. Don't sacrifice the long game.

Enticing! But Wojo wants to build a culture. Don't abandon it for short-term gain. We would also lose out on developing the underclassmen's defense.

I am not advocating that this style would be successful but to suggest that Wojo should not try anything and everything to get this team into the tourney this year seems silly to me. 

PS thought crossed my mind during the last 5 mins of the game as well Tower.

[Big Papi]

The offense is fine.  Wojo needs to rethink his defensive strategy.  Run a gimmick defense, mix defenses up.  Give teams different looks.  Need to find some defensive stops.  Then in the offseason look to find an assistant coach that actually knows how to coach defense as Wojo and current staff don't.  Defense is technique, attitude and effort. 

[Jay Bee]

I wouldn't advocate a significant change to an offense that is a top 5 shooting team and #11 best offensive efficiency team

Interesting?... MU's steal rate in BEast play is tops in the league.. but our non-steal turnover rate is the second-worst. (More than half of turnovers in DI basketball are of the non-steal nature).

[wadesworld]

I wouldn't advocate a significant change to an offense that is a top 5 shooting team and #11 best offensive efficiency team

Interesting?... MU's steal rate in BEast play is tops in the league.. but our non-steal turnover rate is the second-worst. (More than half of turnovers in DI basketball are of the non-steal nature).

Agreed.  Off the top of my head I can't think of too many fast break points yesterday.  We just ran an incredibly efficient offense.  I love our half court offense.  Gets our team so many open looks, and with the shooters we have that is what we need.  Just sprinting up and down eliminates the set plays, which is our biggest strength.

[wadesworld]

The offense is fine.  Wojo needs to rethink his defensive strategy.  Run a gimmick defense, mix defenses up.  Give teams different looks.  Need to find some defensive stops.  Then in the offseason look to find an assistant coach that actually knows how to coach defense as Wojo and current staff don't.  Defense is technique, attitude and effort.

Maybe, maybe not.  2 years ago Marquette didn't have any offensive firepower so Wojo slowed the offense down, grinded games out, and kept the score low.  Right now we have no real defensive studs but are offensively very good, so he's speeding up the pace of the game, trying to create turnovers, and winning with offense.  Wojo preaches over and over the need to win games on the defensive end and gets on them for their defensive effort.  There's only so much he can do from the bench.

I don't remember where I saw it, but I remember an article showing that team height correlates in some way to defensive ability and/or efficiency.  We are a very short team.  That will change next year.  We'll see where that leads our defense to.

[Jay Bee]

Maybe, maybe not.  2 years ago Marquette didn't have any offensive firepower so Wojo slowed the offense down, grinded games out, and kept the score low.  Right now we have no real defensive studs but are offensively very good, so he's speeding up the pace of the game, trying to create turnovers, and winning with offense.  Wojo preaches over and over the need to win games on the defensive end and gets on them for their defensive effort.  There's only so much he can do from the bench.

I don't remember where I saw it, but I remember an article showing that team height correlates in some way to defensive ability and/or efficiency.  We are a very short team.  That will change next year.  We'll see where that leads our defense to.

Our height is strange. There's average height and effective height.. average being all 5 guys.. effective being the tallest 80 minutes played ("tallest two on the court").. Luke has good height for a center.. so our weighted average minutes at the 5 is tall.. our PF minutes are quite short compared to other DI teams.. say you have a bunch of minutes from Harry and Theo next year... different story, yes. And important for defense.

For minutes 81-160, we're not so undersized... 6'6", 6"5 minutes are solid... and then 161-200 minutes... we drop down to being very small again... and should see that be the case again next year..

The issue for me boils down to lack of interior defenders / shot alterers... Harry with sheer size.. Theo with style of play, what he's good at.. looks like a potential improvement, with the caveat of age/experience being a concern

[BM1090]

I wouldn't advocate a significant change to an offense that is a top 5 shooting team and #11 best offensive efficiency team

Interesting?... MU's steal rate in BEast play is tops in the league.. but our non-steal turnover rate is the second-worst. (More than half of turnovers in DI basketball are of the non-steal nature).

7th in adjusted efficiency now on Kenpom. My apologies in advance if you were using a different stat.

[Jay Bee]

7th in adjusted efficiency now on Kenpom. My apologies in advance if you were using a different stat.

#11 = real offensive efficiency (KenPom should have the same ranking right now...)
#7 = adjusted for predictive purposes (not strictly a measure of actual performance, but for predictive purposes also.. and doesn't know things, for example, that Watson was out)

Very similar, but can be very different

[muwarrior69]

The offense is fine.  Wojo needs to rethink his defensive strategy.  Run a gimmick defense, mix defenses up.  Give teams different looks.  Need to find some defensive stops.  Then in the offseason look to find an assistant coach that actually knows how to coach defense as Wojo and current staff don't. Defense is technique, attitude and effort.

So which assistant coach should we fire.

[Lighthouse 84]

Damn.   Time to re-think it.

I agree with this analysis.

[Eldon]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/6ktO2CWwZUs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/6ktO2CWwZUs</a>

So a mid-2000s Phoenix Suns-type system?  I like it.  That team was very entertaining to watch.

[MerrittsMustache]

As I was sitting in church before the start and contemplating holy things, this occurred to me.......

What if MU went full Loyola Marymount the rest of the way?     Just speed up tempo to a ridiculous degree, hit our shooters, and take the first good look.    MU is already playing poor defense.    Just bombs away, except when you have a wide open big underneath.     Make the way MU beat Creighton the norm.   Reset the offensive shot clock in practice to 12.    Push everything and get a shot up quick.   Have everybody go for every steal like JjJ. 

Personally, I don't think it is the long term answer.    However, if MU continues to play at both ends the way they have so far, it might be a fun experiment.     
Downsides that I see:    Shooters eventually miss.    Not enough defensive rebounding to start a fast break.  Not enough players.  (IMO, to play at that pace, we would need the 11 who started the season).    Once the other teams in the Big East adjust, they will just attack the rim even more aggressively, forcing MU to take the ball out of the basket and slowing the push to the other end.

I've often wondered why no nondescript mid-major programs hire a coach who would implement a run-and-gun, LMU/Grinnell-style offense for marketing purposes if nothing else. I'm sure they'd be able to find some shooters who'd love the chance to play D1 basketball while also bringing in the occasional high major recruit based solely on the style of play. The team would likely beat some teams they shouldn't while losing to some lesser teams but it'd always be exciting.

Honestly, if UWM was bombing 3s and scoring 120 a night, wouldn't you at least consider going to a game?

[MarquetteDano]

I've often wondered why no nondescript mid-major programs hire a coach who would implement a run-and-gun, LMU/Grinnell-style offense for marketing purposes if nothing else. I'm sure they'd be able to find some shooters who'd love the chance to play D1 basketball while also bringing in the occasional high major recruit based solely on the style of play. The team would likely beat some teams they shouldn't while losing to some lesser teams but it'd always be exciting.

Honestly, if UWM was bombing 3s and scoring 120 a night, wouldn't you at least consider going to a game?

For the players absolutely a draw.  For myself  personally?  Meh.  I watched North Carolina play a run and gun team some years back, can't remember who.  The score was like 140 to 120.  But it was close for a decent portion of the game.  Weird to say but there was too much scoring.  Too many uncontested shots and turnovers.  It was like a dunk, a three, or whatever bucket someone made didn't mean as much.

Just my opinion however.  I am sure many people would prefer that versus a 60-55 game.

[Silkk the Shaka]

As I was sitting in church before the start and contemplating holy things, this occurred to me.......

What if MU went full Loyola Marymount the rest of the way?     Just speed up tempo to a ridiculous degree, hit our shooters, and take the first good look.    MU is already playing poor defense.    Just bombs away, except when you have a wide open big underneath.     Make the way MU beat Creighton the norm.   Reset the offensive shot clock in practice to 12.    Push everything and get a shot up quick.   Have everybody go for every steal like JjJ. 

Personally, I don't think it is the long term answer.    However, if MU continues to play at both ends the way they have so far, it might be a fun experiment.     
Downsides that I see:    Shooters eventually miss.    Not enough defensive rebounding to start a fast break.  Not enough players.  (IMO, to play at that pace, we would need the 11 who started the season).    Once the other teams in the Big East adjust, they will just attack the rim even more aggressively, forcing MU to take the ball out of the basket and slowing the push to the other end.

I would say the reason MU's offense was so much better against Creighton was because they used an inside-out approach, not run & gun. Once Luke was doing damage, they had to collapse, leaving shooters to step into open looks off the pass. Similar to using the running game to open up the pass rather than coming out of the gate throwing 15 straight plays. What I saw from Luke was very encouraging, he will be key to the rest of our season's success/failure.

[CTWarrior]

..Wojo preaches over and over the need to win games on the defensive end and gets on them for their defensive effort.  There's only so much he can do from the bench...

Preaching at them work hard and play good defense is not the same as teaching proper technique and implementing a defensive scheme that would be effective with the players he has.  He has to take some culpability for the consistently poor defensive showing.  Not saying I know what defensive scheme would work with this team, though.

Of course he gets a lot of credit for the offensive schemes we run.  I particularly liked the weave up top against Creighton until we get the one on one match up we liked, mostly Reinhardt against a big.

I like the way we play overall a lot.  Games in the 80s are much more fun to watch than games in the 60s.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I've often wondered why no nondescript mid-major programs hire a coach who would implement a run-and-gun, LMU/Grinnell-style offense for marketing purposes if nothing else. I'm sure they'd be able to find some shooters who'd love the chance to play D1 basketball while also bringing in the occasional high major recruit based solely on the style of play. The team would likely beat some teams they shouldn't while losing to some lesser teams but it'd always be exciting.

Honestly, if UWM was bombing 3s and scoring 120 a night, wouldn't you at least consider going to a game?

IIRC The Citadel has run that for a few years now. Fun to watch, but they still end up losing more than they win

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

IIRC The Citadel has run that for a few years now. Fun to watch, but they still end up losing more than they win

Doesn't (didn't?) Iona do something similar?

[MerrittsMustache]

IIRC The Citadel has run that for a few years now. Fun to watch, but they still end up losing more than they win

Thanks for the lead.

Looks like Citadel has "Embraced the Pace" since last season. The team only went 10-22 but they're 9-13 so far this season. Their coach, Duggar Baucom, ran something similar at VMI previously. VMI didn't reach the NCAAs during his tenure but they made some noise in the Big South Conference, which is a big step for a program with basically no basketball history.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Thanks for the lead.

Looks like Citadel has "Embraced the Pace" since last season. The team only went 10-22 but they're 9-13 so far this season. Their coach, Duggar Baucom, ran something similar at VMI previously. VMI didn't reach the NCAAs during his tenure but they made some noise in the Big South Conference, which is a big step for a program with basically no basketball history.

That's right. I forgot the coach left VMI fur the Citadel. Thought it was funny because I think the two are rivals.