Is Matt Heldt Breaking Out?

[Loose Cannon]

I do think Kaminsky is an outlier and don't think Matt will explode like that, however I will point out that Matt was regarded as a decent three point shooter in high school. Don't think he's attempted one yet, but I suppose you never know.

I hope he spends sometime in practiceing, b/c lots of 3 pt shooters around to help.

[brandx]

The difference.  As a freshman in high school Frank was a 6'3" shooting guard.  His sophomore year a 6'10" center.  Frank learned to play the game as a guard and developed core athleticism as a young player.  It took him a while to translate that to his bigger body, but when it did the skill sets and athleticism were all there. 

Heldt doesn't have that athleticism and guard background.

He'll never be a Frank Kaminsky.  We need him to be the best Matt Heldt he can be (which could be a skilled 4 year true center).

Exactly.

I'd be thrilled with 3 pts. / 3 rbs a game this year.

He could be the nominal starter next year, but still probably not get more than 12 - 15 minutes a game. But if he can up his production even a little bit, it will be needed.

[brewcity77]

The difference.  As a freshman in high school Frank was a 6'3" shooting guard.  His sophomore year a 6'10" center.  Frank learned to play the game as a guard and developed core athleticism as a young player.  It took him a while to translate that to his bigger body, but when it did the skill sets and athleticism were all there. 

Heldt doesn't have that athleticism and guard background.

He'll never be a Frank Kaminsky.  We need him to be the best Matt Heldt he can be (which could be a skilled 4 year true center).

Interesting, I didn't know that. Similar to Anthony Davis, who went from average prospect to elite with a growth spurt that took him from guard to power forward.

[Da 'Lanche]

Copa could knock down an outside shot?   Really?  I watched him for 3 years.    One of us is having hallucinatory memories regarding his shooting ability.

Copa had a decent outside shot from about the ft line in...he fairly consistently knocked down open outside shots from that spot or on either corner of the ft line...that was about it.   Decent at the time for a big man but nowhere near what the game has moved to today.   I was there from 84-88 and knew Tom a little bit from a mutual friend.   He had a monster break out game in the NIT one year against Indiana (I think our only post season play when I was a student) and everyone thought he was going to bust out the next year as even Bobby Knight called out his performance at IU...he had the size but his game regressed...probably as the entire program regressed.  I remember after Majerus was replaced by Dukiet, by my senior year, drinking myself into a depressing realization at the MECCA that we probably would not win the WIAC if we were moved to D3.    That is why I find the impatience (by some) with Wojo sort of amusing....living through that hell of program decline less than a decade after winning a national championship makes one appreciate where we are today as a program.

Anyway....that being said...I like how Matt is progressing and think he will be a solid, serviceable big for us with the outside chance of surprising us with his upside.

[dgies9156]

Copa had a decent outside shot from about the ft line in..   I was there from 84-88 and knew Tom a little bit from a mutual friend.   He had a monster break out game in the NIT one year against Indiana (I think our only post season play when I was a student) and everyone thought he was going to bust out the next year as even Bobby Knight called out his performance at IU...he had the size but his game regressed...probably as the entire program regressed.  I remember after Majerus was replaced by Dukiet, by my senior year, drinking myself into a depressing realization at the MECCA that we probably would not win the WIAC if we were moved to D3.    That is why I find the impatience (by some) with Wojo sort of amusing....living through that hell of program decline less than a decade after winning a national championship makes one appreciate where we are today as a program.

Perhaps you mean ft to be the one-foot line LOL! I know what you mean about Tommy Copa. He was sadly not what we had hoped for, kinda like Dean Marquardt.

As to the impatience, you come from the Warriors that were despondent. If my experience was the Dukiet and later Majerus years, I would think Wojo was greater than he is. But I came  from the Al era an. d we think we should have a God-given to be an elite team and compete for the national championship.

Wojo is going to get us there, I'm confident . But there will be some fits  and starts along the way.

[goldeneagle91114]

just a thought, and I'm sorry if someone else has already suggested it, but could Heldt start? here my thought, Fisher is extremely important to our success, just like Crowder was under Buzz. At the beginning of Crowder's senior season, he always seemed to start the game and pick up an early foul or 2, so Buzz sat him for the first 3 minutes to let him get past his nerves, or whatever caused him to pick up early fouls.

Would this be a good concept for wojo to follow? let Fisher sit on the bench and then bring him in at the first substitution once the game and settled in?

[brewcity77]

just a thought, and I'm sorry if someone else has already suggested it, but could Heldt start? here my thought, Fisher is extremely important to our success, just like Crowder was under Buzz. At the beginning of Crowder's senior season, he always seemed to start the game and pick up an early foul or 2, so Buzz sat him for the first 3 minutes to let him get past his nerves, or whatever caused him to pick up early fouls.

Would this be a good concept for wojo to follow? let Fisher sit on the bench and then bring him in at the first substitution once the game and settled in?

Sure, but I think that's more a gimmick thing than anything else. If Matt starts and Luke comes in at the under-16, what's to stop him from getting two fouls before the 10 minute mark? I think it's smarter to go with your best lineup and adjust as the fouls and situations dictate. Unless Matt gave a significant advantage over Luke on the tip (like Otule over Gardner), there's no real justification for doing that.

[tower912]

Copa had a decent outside shot from about the ft line in...he fairly consistently knocked down open outside shots from that spot or on either corner of the ft line...that was about it.   Decent at the time for a big man but nowhere near what the game has moved to today.   I was there from 84-88 and knew Tom a little bit from a mutual friend.   He had a monster break out game in the NIT one year against Indiana (I think our only post season play when I was a student) and everyone thought he was going to bust out the next year as even Bobby Knight called out his performance at IU...he had the size but his game regressed...probably as the entire program regressed.  I remember after Majerus was replaced by Dukiet, by my senior year, drinking myself into a depressing realization at the MECCA that we probably would not win the WIAC if we were moved to D3.    That is why I find the impatience (by some) with Wojo sort of amusing....living through that hell of program decline less than a decade after winning a national championship makes one appreciate where we are today as a program.

Anyway....that being said...I like how Matt is progressing and think he will be a solid, serviceable big for us with the outside chance of surprising us with his upside.

You and I were there at the same time.   I remember the foul line jumper.    I remember the free throws.   I remember the dunks ending up in press row.   I had mutual friends and shared a couple of smaller classes with Tom.    Really nice guy.    Would have been a benefit to almost any MU team since.   But didn't really live up to expectations.   
  That was the NIT game on St. Patrick's day, 1985, at Assembly Hall, where MU finished the game with Pat Foley as the biggest of our 4 players left on the floor.       I proceeded to get the drunkest I have ever been.     Two day hangover.    Getting off of the elevator the next morning and bee-lining to the bathroom in the lobby of McCormick and hurling again.   Father Donnelly's History 002 was quite the struggle on March 18.   

[jsglow]

just a thought, and I'm sorry if someone else has already suggested it, but could Heldt start? here my thought, Fisher is extremely important to our success, just like Crowder was under Buzz. At the beginning of Crowder's senior season, he always seemed to start the game and pick up an early foul or 2, so Buzz sat him for the first 3 minutes to let him get past his nerves, or whatever caused him to pick up early fouls.

Would this be a good concept for wojo to follow? let Fisher sit on the bench and then bring him in at the first substitution once the game and settled in?

They did that with Jae Junior year. I think the might have had Williams take the team to the under 16.

[real chili 83]

Perhaps you mean ft to be the one-foot line LOL! I know what you mean about Tommy Copa. He was sadly not what we had hoped for, kinda like Dean Marquardt.

Marquardt gave us the ND game. Bob Bach almost had a stroke calling that game. Dean also did the Stevof gal from Racine too.  Believe he married her.

[Da 'Lanche]

You and I were there at the same time.   I remember the foul line jumper.    I remember the free throws.   I remember the dunks ending up in press row.   I had mutual friends and shared a couple of smaller classes with Tom.    Really nice guy.    Would have been a benefit to almost any MU team since.   But didn't really live up to expectations.   
  That was the NIT game on St. Patrick's day, 1985, at Assembly Hall, where MU finished the game with Pat Foley as the biggest of our 4 players left on the floor.       I proceeded to get the drunkest I have ever been.     Two day hangover.    Getting off of the elevator the next morning and bee-lining to the bathroom in the lobby of McCormick and hurling again.   Father Donnelly's History 002 was quite the struggle on March 18.

We certainly slopped through the same vomit-filled hallways in McCormick...I was there as a freshman in 84-85 too...

[TSmith34, Inc.]

   We certainly slopped through the same vomit-filled hallways in McCormick...I was there as a freshman in 84-85 too...

Same here.  6th floor

[MU82]

just a thought, and I'm sorry if someone else has already suggested it, but could Heldt start? here my thought, Fisher is extremely important to our success, just like Crowder was under Buzz. At the beginning of Crowder's senior season, he always seemed to start the game and pick up an early foul or 2, so Buzz sat him for the first 3 minutes to let him get past his nerves, or whatever caused him to pick up early fouls.

Would this be a good concept for wojo to follow? let Fisher sit on the bench and then bring him in at the first substitution once the game and settled in?

When Bruce Weber coached Illinois to the 2005 championship game (with Bill Self's players), he did something I always thought was interesting. As soon as one of his bigs (usually Augustine, but not always) picked up a foul, he would pull him immediately, let him sit on the bench for a couple of minutes, and then put him back in. Weber said the thought process was he wanted to avoid the 2-fouls-in-30-seconds kind of thing that can happen. Plus, he thought it was good to let the big man relax for a minute and re-evaluate a little how he might play once back in the game.

I thought it was interesting at the time and it usually worked. Maybe other coaches do this, too ... I just haven't noticed it. I watched a ton of Illinois basketball during the Kruger, Self and Weber years.

[tower912]

Same here.  6th floor

7th.  IIRC, mug644 was also on 7 in 84-85

[Da 'Lanche]

7th.  IIRC, mug644 was also on 7 in 84-85

4th floor...with a great view of the Ardmore from my window

[naginiF]

Same here.  6th floor

I was on the 6th 84-85.  West wing