Vegas 16

[rocket surgeon]

wondering about the old ages of GnR but not George Strait?

I'll bet guns n roses did more drugs per capita than George though.  So in drug years, gnr has him beat hands down. Country guys were born with a bottle of beer in their hand though ein'a or was it jack?

[jsglow]

Y'all understand that opening night is a week from today.  Killers paired with Wayne Newton.  I'll have to call off my Markus surveillance to attend!

We need hockey bad.

[rocket surgeon]

Y'all understand that opening night is a week from today.  Killers paired with Wayne Newton.  I'll have to call off my Markus surveillance to attend!

We need hockey bad.

i didn't think it would be that hard to bring in some talent that wouldn't resemble "weekend with bernie"  chriminey, newton was mickey jackson's plastic surgeon's 2nd best patient

[VegasWarrior77]

Y'all understand that opening night is a week from today.  Killers paired with Wayne Newton.  I'll have to call off my Markus surveillance to attend!

We need hockey bad.

Don't forget LV native Shamir will be there too!

#NHLtoLasVegas

Haven't seen anything happening lately...

[Benny B]

I'm not sold on the $50k being the "all-inclusive" cost everyone thinks it is... thankfully, all 8 teams are from public universities, so eight FOIA requests (one request, actually, and seven copies) should tell us the answer a couple months from now.

Place your bets.

Thanks to FOIA, we can finally give this a post mortem (I got lazy and only sent one request out, however).  I didn't find anything extremely juicy, but there were a few notable provisions that may shed some light:

Vegas 16's entry fee was $50,000; however, it was reduced to $45,000 because the field was reduced from 16 to 8. 
[The contract was amended eight days after Selection Sunday with the reduced fee and number of teams, so while it's pretty clear that the tournament promoter couldn't find 16 teams to commit, in taking over a week to amend an existing contract, it's likely that either a) the promoter struggled just to get to 8 and/or b) somewhere between 9-15 teams committed and there was some negotiation between the promoter and the schools as to how the fee would be reduced.]

For the entry fee, the tournament promoter provided the following:

   14 regular rooms, 1 suite, and meeting space at a hotel selected by promoter
   22 R/T tickets on Southwest Airlines (or another carrier selected by promoter) -OR- up to $10,000 reimbursement if university arranged its own transportation.
   Ground transportation to/from airport, hotel, practice sites and games.
   30 complimentary game tickets
   22 tickets to tournament's welcome reception
   22 tournament gift packages.
   Off-site practice facilities the day prior to the university's first-round game
[So I was wrong.  $50,000 (or $45,000 as it turned out) was the all-inclusive price; so that doesn't seem so bad, except....]

The contract prohibited the university from disclosing their acceptance or participation in the tournament to anyone.
[It is unclear as to if any other potential participants were even been disclosed to the university (by the tournament promoter) prior to its acceptance (even then, there was no guarantee that any of such schools being discussed would have been selected)... but what is clear is that AD's & coaches wouldn't have been able to chat up their counterparts at other schools to see who was considering participating in the tourney, and this may have been a non-starter for Marquette and other high-majors to go into the tournament with blinders on... I'm sure under no circumstances did MU want to be the only high-major playing in a tourney with a bunch of mids- and lows-.]

The universities executed the contracts the week prior to Selection Sunday, and the contract granted the tournament promoter the option (but not the obligation) to invite the university to the Vegas 16, in which case the university participation in the Vegas 16 was mandatory unless the university was selected for the NCAA Tournament.
[In other words, by agreeing to participate in the V16 in advance (with no guarantee of even being selected), a university would have had to decline an NIT bid had they been selected for both the V16 and NIT.  I imagine this was the deal breaker for Marquette... MU probably wanted to at least keep its NIT hopes alive wasn't going to commit to the V16 before the NIT bracket was announced.]

[jsglow]

Great update.  That last requirement would have been an absolute deal breaker.

[MarquetteDano]

[In other words, by agreeing to participate in the V16 in advance (with no guarantee of even being selected), a university would have had to decline an NIT bid had they been selected for both the V16 and NIT.  I imagine this was the deal breaker for Marquette... MU probably wanted to at least keep its NIT hopes alive wasn't going to commit to the V16 before the NIT bracket was announced.]

That is nuts and pretty much guaranteed this tourney had no major programs or even mid majors.  I understand why they did it from a scheduling standpoint but that really insured only small programs, who had no chance for the NIT,  would accept.

[Benny B]

That is nuts and pretty much guaranteed this tourney had no major programs or even mid majors.  I understand why they did it from a scheduling standpoint but that really insured only small programs, who had no chance for the NIT,  would accept.

Chicken dinner.

The more I think about how the V16 dug their own grave with this provision, they would assuredly have buried themselves without it....  i.e. their choice was essentially either a) lets fill the bracket with "less-than-NIT" talent or b) run the risk of not having enough teams to fill the bracket the day after Selection Sunday.  The marginal upside of 'b' panning out is minimal, at best... so risk-reward made 'a' the obvious choice for the promoter.  Of course in retrospect, they ended up with both, but at least they were able to put together an 8-team tourney, and considering it was the inaugural year, that has to be some sort of consolation.  Unfortunately, I have a feeling it's going to take a few iterations and some positive exposure before the likes of Marquette and other high-majors are participating in this tourney regularly... if it even returns.

Unfortunately, I can't FOIA the promoter to see if they even made any money on this thing.

[barfolomew]

I'm just impressed that Benny actually filed a FOIA request to bring us this info.

Not that I don't love all you people, but I'm usually only willing to invest, at most, a three-minute google search to advance a Scoop thread...

[Dawson Rental]

Playing in the UCSB band in the NCAA tournament was one of my best Marquette memories.  They had finals during tournament week so they needed 10-15 to fill out the band.  UCSB emailed MU and about 10 MU bandos filled in the rest of Gaucho band.  We got to watch two tourney games (for free) and they even paid us a stipend.

Oh, and the whole Gaucho band was plastered at game time, which was pretty amusing.

Was UCSB playing in Milwaukee?

[Herman Cain]

Thanks to FOIA, we can finally give this a post mortem (I got lazy and only sent one request out, however).  I didn't find anything extremely juicy, but there were a few notable provisions that may shed some light:

Vegas 16's entry fee was $50,000; however, it was reduced to $45,000 because the field was reduced from 16 to 8. 
[The contract was amended eight days after Selection Sunday with the reduced fee and number of teams, so while it's pretty clear that the tournament promoter couldn't find 16 teams to commit, in taking over a week to amend an existing contract, it's likely that either a) the promoter struggled just to get to 8 and/or b) somewhere between 9-15 teams committed and there was some negotiation between the promoter and the schools as to how the fee would be reduced.]

For the entry fee, the tournament promoter provided the following:

   14 regular rooms, 1 suite, and meeting space at a hotel selected by promoter
   22 R/T tickets on Southwest Airlines (or another carrier selected by promoter) -OR- up to $10,000 reimbursement if university arranged its own transportation.
   Ground transportation to/from airport, hotel, practice sites and games.
   30 complimentary game tickets
   22 tickets to tournament's welcome reception
   22 tournament gift packages.
   Off-site practice facilities the day prior to the university's first-round game
[So I was wrong.  $50,000 (or $45,000 as it turned out) was the all-inclusive price; so that doesn't seem so bad, except....]

The contract prohibited the university from disclosing their acceptance or participation in the tournament to anyone.
[It is unclear as to if any other potential participants were even been disclosed to the university (by the tournament promoter) prior to its acceptance (even then, there was no guarantee that any of such schools being discussed would have been selected)... but what is clear is that AD's & coaches wouldn't have been able to chat up their counterparts at other schools to see who was considering participating in the tourney, and this may have been a non-starter for Marquette and other high-majors to go into the tournament with blinders on... I'm sure under no circumstances did MU want to be the only high-major playing in a tourney with a bunch of mids- and lows-.]

The universities executed the contracts the week prior to Selection Sunday, and the contract granted the tournament promoter the option (but not the obligation) to invite the university to the Vegas 16, in which case the university participation in the Vegas 16 was mandatory unless the university was selected for the NCAA Tournament.
[In other words, by agreeing to participate in the V16 in advance (with no guarantee of even being selected), a university would have had to decline an NIT bid had they been selected for both the V16 and NIT.  I imagine this was the deal breaker for Marquette... MU probably wanted to at least keep its NIT hopes alive wasn't going to commit to the V16 before the NIT bracket was announced.]

Thank You for doing this due diligence.

[MU82]

I'm just impressed that Benny actually filed a FOIA request to bring us this info.

Not that I don't love all you people, but I'm usually only willing to invest, at most, a three-minute google search to advance a Scoop thread...

Wow, barf ... you actually give it 3 whole minutes? That's triple what my lazy arse is willing to do!

[SaveOD238]

Was UCSB playing in Milwaukee?

Yeah they played Ohio State in the 2-15 game

[Eye]

Excellent work Benny.

[Marcus92]

Thanks for the great follow-up. Very thorough, very interesting.

[Windyplayer]

Thanks to FOIA, we can finally give this a post mortem (I got lazy and only sent one request out, however).  I didn't find anything extremely juicy, but there were a few notable provisions that may shed some light:

Vegas 16's entry fee was $50,000; however, it was reduced to $45,000 because the field was reduced from 16 to 8. 
[The contract was amended eight days after Selection Sunday with the reduced fee and number of teams, so while it's pretty clear that the tournament promoter couldn't find 16 teams to commit, in taking over a week to amend an existing contract, it's likely that either a) the promoter struggled just to get to 8 and/or b) somewhere between 9-15 teams committed and there was some negotiation between the promoter and the schools as to how the fee would be reduced.]

For the entry fee, the tournament promoter provided the following:

   14 regular rooms, 1 suite, and meeting space at a hotel selected by promoter
   22 R/T tickets on Southwest Airlines (or another carrier selected by promoter) -OR- up to $10,000 reimbursement if university arranged its own transportation.
   Ground transportation to/from airport, hotel, practice sites and games.
   30 complimentary game tickets
   22 tickets to tournament's welcome reception
   22 tournament gift packages.
   Off-site practice facilities the day prior to the university's first-round game
[So I was wrong.  $50,000 (or $45,000 as it turned out) was the all-inclusive price; so that doesn't seem so bad, except....]

The contract prohibited the university from disclosing their acceptance or participation in the tournament to anyone.
[It is unclear as to if any other potential participants were even been disclosed to the university (by the tournament promoter) prior to its acceptance (even then, there was no guarantee that any of such schools being discussed would have been selected)... but what is clear is that AD's & coaches wouldn't have been able to chat up their counterparts at other schools to see who was considering participating in the tourney, and this may have been a non-starter for Marquette and other high-majors to go into the tournament with blinders on... I'm sure under no circumstances did MU want to be the only high-major playing in a tourney with a bunch of mids- and lows-.]

The universities executed the contracts the week prior to Selection Sunday, and the contract granted the tournament promoter the option (but not the obligation) to invite the university to the Vegas 16, in which case the university participation in the Vegas 16 was mandatory unless the university was selected for the NCAA Tournament.
[In other words, by agreeing to participate in the V16 in advance (with no guarantee of even being selected), a university would have had to decline an NIT bid had they been selected for both the V16 and NIT.  I imagine this was the deal breaker for Marquette... MU probably wanted to at least keep its NIT hopes alive wasn't going to commit to the V16 before the NIT bracket was announced.]

A nice way to hopefully usher in a more substantive discourse on this board heading into the fall.

[WarriorFan]

I really thought this tournament was a great idea with great potential, but they clearly dug their own grave.  If they had
a) encouraged AD's to discuss and mutually accept
b) changed the selection criteria to avoid interference with NIT acceptance

Then a few big schools would have no doubt found it attractive... especially those with young talent who need tournament experience.

Now I see the end result is a function of the organizers mistakes.  Maybe they try and change the process and have one more run at it.  Otherwise, it's dead.

[brewcity77]

That is nuts and pretty much guaranteed this tourney had no major programs or even mid majors.  I understand why they did it from a scheduling standpoint but that really insured only small programs, who had no chance for the NIT,  would accept.

Yeah, that's a shoot-yourself-in-the-foot type provision. Hard to be at all disappointed knowing that was in the contract.

[jsglow]

I really thought this tournament was a great idea with great potential, but they clearly dug their own grave.  If they had
a) encouraged AD's to discuss and mutually accept
b) changed the selection criteria to avoid interference with NIT acceptance

Then a few big schools would have no doubt found it attractive... especially those with young talent who need tournament experience.

Now I see the end result is a function of the organizers mistakes.  Maybe they try and change the process and have one more run at it.  Otherwise, it's dead.

Absolutely agree.  Couldn't execute it any worse.  The right answer would have been to BEG teams just off the NIT bubble to team up by phone and agree to come.  Who can't figure out that Wojo and Collins might have brought their teams if they had the ability to coordinate?  And if I had paid money for TV, that's exactly what I would have wanted to happen.  Haven't these clowns ever heard of 'sponsor exemptions'?