Where we stand

[JimmyBuckets]

So there's talk that Martin is the #1 target... Howland still in the mix (per Goodman). IMO this is a last play to drive Howland's price down. We've heard for a while that he wants a lot, and while we're prepared to spend a ton of money, I'm not sure we're ready to spend a ton of money on him. I don't find it very believable that Martin truly is our #1 target. IMO he's a fallback... this seems like a stunt, and I'm not against that. 

[GooooMarquette]

I sure hope you are right.

[HutchwasClutch]

I sure hope you are right.

Second that.

[JimmyBuckets]

I think the real question is, if we're bluffing and we get called on it what happens? Do we pay Howland more than we wanted to, or does BH walk leaving us with Martin? 

[willie warrior]

So there's talk that Martin is the #1 target... Howland still in the mix (per Goodman). IMO this is a last play to drive Howland's price down. We've heard for a while that he wants a lot, and while we're prepared to spend a ton of money, I'm not sure we're ready to spend a ton of money on him. I don't find it very believable that Martin truly is our #1 target. IMO he's a fallback... this seems like a stunt, and I'm not against that. 

You are giving MU search way too much credit for strategy. If they are that cheap, drop to D3.

Why would they go after somebody who they really do not want?

[GooooMarquette]

You are giving MU search way too much credit for strategy. If they are that cheap, drop to D3.

Why would they go after somebody who they really do not want?

I don't think the strategy would be "going after" Martin - it would be initial conversations to gauge interest, and "leaks" that make it sound like he's in play.  And while this is happening, we're talking to Howland about the final terms of the deal.

We only actually "go after" Martin if better choices fall through.

[willie warrior]

I don't think the strategy would be "going after" Martin - it would be initial conversations to gauge interest, and "leaks" that make it sound like he's in play.  And while this is happening, we're talking to Howland about the final terms of the deal.

We only actually "go after" Martin if better choices fall through.

And the longer we keep dorking around, the more the better choices fall through. Give the top guy your best offer and 24 hours and then move on, unlike what we did with Shaka Con.

[JimmyBuckets]

Why would they go after somebody who they really do not want?

Same reason you kick the tires of the Ford Focus before you go with the Mustang you came into the dealership to buy in the first place. Getting a good deal doesn't = being cheap, it's just being smart with your money.  

[GooooMarquette]

And the longer we keep dorking around, the more the better choices fall through. Give the top guy your best offer and 24 hours and then move on, unlike what we did with Shaka Con.

It sounds like Howland is ours if we want him.  More money, prestige, support than other open jobs.  That said, I'd like to get him signed ASAP as well...just agreeing with JimmyBuckets' hope that the main reason for our involvement with Martin might be as a negotiating ploy.

[willie warrior]

Same reason you kick the tires of the Ford Focus before you go with the Mustang you came into the dealership to buy in the first place. Getting a good deal doesn't = being cheap, it's just being smart with your money.  

Believe me, if it was the Mustang I wanted, I wouldn't be kicking the tires of a frigging Focus.

[JimmyBuckets]

Believe me, if it was the Mustang I wanted, I wouldn't be kicking the tires of a frigging Focus.

And that's why you'll be stuck paying full sticker price. 

[willie warrior]

And that's why you'll be stuck paying full sticker price. 

Sorry--never have and never will.

[mattyv1908]

Sorry--never have and never will.

Take it from a long time car guy..... We screw you regardless of how it appears.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Or, something about Howland smells wrong.

Whether you loved him or hated him, we can all admit that a lot of what Buzz did during his tenure was "squirmy" at best. If you believe that Buzz may have been "shown the door" or at least we didn't put up a fight when he tried to leave, then you can understand why the administration would shy away from someone with a questionable background.

If you really think Howland was fired from UCLA because the fans are unreasonable, you are deluding yourself.

He could have learned from his mistakes at UCLA, but I don't blame the committee for being hesitant.

[Blackhat]

This is actually what I would be doing, especially after the Shaka leaks..

I would leak out a name of a guy I barely had interest in, to give me room to maneuver freely for the guy I really want.

Plus then expectations are lowered and you look like a god when you get the better hire you wanted all along.

Don't know if Cords thinks in those terms though.

[Eldon]

Or, something about Howland smells wrong.

Whether you loved him or hated him, we can all admit that a lot of what Buzz did during his tenure was "squirmy" at best. If you believe that Buzz may have been "shown the door" or at least we didn't put up a fight when he tried to leave, then you can understand why the administration would shy away from someone with a questionable background.

If you really think Howland was fired from UCLA because the fans are unreasonable, you are deluding yourself.

He could have learned from his mistakes at UCLA, but I don't blame the committee for being hesitant.

http://www.youtube.com/v/7r5sWejnlk4?hl=en_US&version=3

Stephen A. Shouter and Skip both agree that he should have been fired, but not because of stink, FWIW.

[Daniel]

The piece above on Howland is excellent. Lots of focus on transfers -  11 in 5 years and done even during the season.  Well, we know that 40% of the college basketball players don't finish at the school they started at.  But for them, it was UCLA - no one should transfer out so it's the coach. Buzz had his fair share of transfers and no shows too - even some in season.   If that's the biggest gripe against Howland, let's hire him.

[JimmyBuckets]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncb/story/_/id/7629031/ucla-bruins-coach-ben-howland-lost-control-highly-recruited-players-according-report

Another allegation... He lets his players do whatever they want, and lost control...

Maybe the administration doesn't want players to run wild, after certain... incidents... under Buzz. 

[Tums Festival]

I think it's interesting how the Howland naysayers chose to focus a couple down years due to too much influence from boosters rather than his entire career. As I've mentioned in other threads where people have said UCLA recruits itself, Howland had the 9th rated class his last year at Pitt. If you look at how UCLA has treated almost every coach since John Wooden, you can see he was the victim of unrealistic expectations.

[buckchuckler]

Same reason you kick the tires of the Ford Focus before you go with the Mustang you came into the dealership to buy in the first place. Getting a good deal doesn't = being cheap, it's just being smart with your money.  

The real question is why would you buy a mustang.

[DienerTime34]

We don't know his asking price was high. It was at first an unsubstantiated claim, and now has been repeated so many times it's been taken as fact. Prove me wrong.

[MU82]

I must admit that I was in on Howland when I first heard of the mutual interest, but the more I read about him the less I like the idea of him coaching my program.

[Tugg Speedman]

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncb/story/_/id/7629031/ucla-bruins-coach-ben-howland-lost-control-highly-recruited-players-according-report

Another allegation... He lets his players do whatever they want, and lost control...

Maybe the administration doesn't want players to run wild, after certain... incidents... under Buzz. 

Under Howland the players did what they wanted and the coach had no control.

Under Brent, the players had no control and the coach did whatever he wanted.

Accurate?

[mattyv1908]

[Tums Festival]

http://www.youtube.com/v/7r5sWejnlk4?hl=en_US&version=3

Stephen A. Shouter and Skip both agree that he should have been fired, but not because of stink, FWIW.

Both also agree he deserves to head up another Division 1 program and that he's a good coach.