Jake Thomas Justification

[tower912]

It's lazy because it is the trump card that can't be topped.   IMO, as recounted in the recent Paint Touches post, Buzz has struggled to figure out this team.  He hasn't gotten consistent performances from his best players.   He hasn't gotten consistent performances from his freshmen.  But he DOES see them every day and he DOES know more about hoops than anybody here. 

[NersEllenson]

willie...I don't go out of my way to praise guys like Jake and Juan.  I defend how and why they are being used.  I agree that we need better production out of both positions if we are to be a better team however.

And as for Todd and Davante, I said that both should start weeks ago....along with Jamil, Derrick and Jake.  (And look at the line up that has been producing late in both games.  Yeah I know...blind squirrel and all that.)

Do you recall your staunch position when Jake transferred to MU saying he would NEVER play any meaningful minutes?  Regardless of if he was good enough to get a D1 scholarship at a low major...he would never sniff the court at MU? 

[jsglow]

Over the last two games the guard line of Derrick/Jake/Todd has finally started to emerge into an effective force.  Do all have flaws? Of course.  But our guard play the last week has been the best it has been all year.  Better late than never, I suppose.  I hope that trend continues and if that means they play 30 minutes together on the floor, so be it.

[jsglow]

Do you recall your staunch position when Jake transferred to MU saying he would NEVER play any meaningful minutes?  Regardless of if he was good enough to get a D1 scholarship at a low major...he would never sniff the court at MU? 

Ners, I guess Sultan has the ability to change his mind and admit when his original evaluation might have been just a bit off.  Refreshing.

[Archies Bat]

Ners, I guess Sultan has the ability to change his mind and admit when his original evaluation might have been just a bit off.  Refreshing.

+1.  Was trying to come up with a way to say the same thing.

[mu-rara]

Stat lines really only address one side of the floor so really it isn't all that relevant how one player is doing offensively when the team seems to perform well when he is on the court.

I agree, wholeheartedly.  

I thought you of ALL people would detect sarcasm without teal.  I mean, you're a Sultan.  jk.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, I guess Sultan has the ability to change his mind and admit when his original evaluation might have been just a bit off.  Refreshing.

LOL - Not historically.  But, yes, sorry...I stand by my conviction that Dawson would have been a better option for this team at PG had he been given 20 minutes a game from the start of the season...

Nothing in Derrick's numbers show any improvement from the nonconference portion of the season to the conference season.  And the team's record is pretty poor.  People are all excited again because we beat a pretty poor Seton Hall team on the road...

And yes, Dawson just had a clunker of a game against Seton Hall - truly his 1 absolute bomb of a game - yet his turnover per 40 minutes compared to Derrick is just .5 more turnovers per 40.  Dawson at least forces a defense to defend him everywhere on the floor....by virtue of that alone...it adds value for all the other guys on the floor..

We'll see how it plays out...I suspect we'll be in the NIT - and don't think any here would have thought this would be an NIT team...not with our best post player in 30 years, and a wing in Jamil who Buzz has said is the most talented of any of the guys who have come through the program...

[Henry Sugar]

I don't see any evidence that JJJ can do what jake does in the team defense.  The reason MU has won the last two games is in part because of the clamps they put down on the defensive end.  Don't underestimate the role that jake plays in the regard.

Seton Hall shot an eFG% of 64% for the game. That was the worst defensive eFG% allowed by MU all season.

MU won against SHU because they forced them into a TORate of 26% and an OR% of 13%. Purely from the box score, Jake had two defensive rebounds against SHU. He had no steals, but did have one block. The box score says his contribution defensively was worse than the team average.

However, I fully acknowledge that things don't get captured in the box score. If you or anyone else could make a compelling argument that Thomas played a role outside the box score in the other SHU turnovers or the MU defensive rebounds, I'd welcome that dialogue.

[jsglow]

And yes, Dawson just had a clunker of a game against Seton Hall - truly his 1 absolute bomb of a game - yet his turnover per 40 minutes compared to Derrick is just .5 more turnovers per 40.  Dawson at least forces a defense to defend him everywhere on the floor....by virtue of that alone...it adds value for all the other guys on the floor..

We'll see how it plays out...I suspect we'll be in the NIT - and don't think any here would have thought this would be an NIT team...not with our best post player in 30 years, and a wing in Jamil who Buzz has said is the most talented of any of the guys who have come through the program...

Agree on both points.  I think Dawson becomes a very solid player over his 4 years and I like his contribution to date.  I also think NIT might end up our fate but as they said in Monty Python..... "I'm not dead yet!"

[GGGG]

Ners, I guess Sultan has the ability to change his mind and admit when his original evaluation might have been just a bit off.  Refreshing.

Of course Vander had to leave early for it to happen, but yeah I was wrong that he wouldn't play meaningful minutes.

[GGGG]

Seton Hall shot an eFG% of 64% for the game. That was the worst defensive eFG% allowed by MU all season.

MU won against SHU because they forced them into a TORate of 26% and an OR% of 13%. Purely from the box score, Jake had two defensive rebounds against SHU. He had no steals, but did have one block. The box score says his contribution defensively was worse than the team average.

However, I fully acknowledge that things don't get captured in the box score. If you or anyone else could make a compelling argument that Thomas played a role outside the box score in the other SHU turnovers or the MU defensive rebounds, I'd welcome that dialogue.

I think it was their defensive effort over the last 10 minutes of the game that was the difference.  I agree that their overall FG defense was poor for a good portion of that game.  MU was able to keep up because of OR more than anything...I would guess at least.

[willie warrior]

willie...I don't go out of my way to praise guys like Jake and Juan.  I defend how and why they are being used.  I agree that we need better production out of both positions if we are to be a better team however.

And as for Todd and Davante, I said that both should start weeks ago....along with Jamil, Derrick and Jake.  (And look at the line up that has been producing late in both games.  Yeah I know...blind squirrel and all that.)

OK. If we keep winning with the current rotation, that's all good, That being said, Juan should only get about 10 minutes per game, and Mayo should get some of Jake's minutes, unless the bad Mayo shows up.

[MU82]

Over the last two games the guard line of Derrick/Jake/Todd has finally started to emerge into an effective force.

Hmmm.

Wilt was a force. Jordan and Pippen emerged as a force. The 80s Lakers emerged as a force. LeBron, Wade and Bosh have emerged as a force.

Not that I have a little higher standards of what constitutes a "force" or anything, but I'm pretty sure it requires more than three players averaging a combined 21.2 points on 40% shooting for a team that just had its first two-game winning streak in nearly two months.

I'm hopeful, yes, but let's talk again after the Xavier and Creighton games.

[willie warrior]

Hmmm.

Wilt was a force. Jordan and Pippen emerged as a force. The 80s Lakers emerged as a force. LeBron, Wade and Bosh have emerged as a force.

Not that I have a little higher standards of what constitutes a "force" or anything, but I'm pretty sure it requires more than three players averaging a combined 21.2 points on 40% shooting for a team that just had its first two-game winning streak in nearly two months.

I'm hopeful, yes, but let's talk again after the Xavier and Creighton games.

Wow, I agree with MU82. And if you take mayo out of that mix, you have a guard tandem averaging about 12 points per game. Like the fact we have won two in a row, but let's wait to see what happens in the next two--both must wins.

[NersEllenson]

Of course Vander had to leave early for it to happen, but yeah I was wrong that he wouldn't play meaningful minutes.

Well in a respectful tip of the cap to you..and BrewCity1977 - you guys were Vander supporters all along and I was really, really skeptical...and didn't see him blossoming into a good player...his jump his junior year completely shocked me.  Feel otherwise I've been pretty accurate on the ability/talent/potential of other MU players since Buzz took over..ironically...I felt Jake would be a contributor/get playing time regardless of Vander's status when Jake transferred to MU...but certainly didn't see Jake being the 2nd leading minute getter on the team this year...or when I made comments he'd get PT when he transferred to MU - just thought he'd get spot minutes like what we saw last year..

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Of course Vander had to leave early for it to happen, but yeah I was wrong that he wouldn't play meaningful minutes.

Jake was playing a ton early last season, but shot his way onto the bench.

[MU82]

Well in a respectful tip of the cap to you..and BrewCity1977 - you guys were Vander supporters all along and I was really, really skeptical...and didn't see him blossoming into a good player...his jump his junior year completely shocked me.  Feel otherwise I've been pretty accurate on the ability/talent/potential of other MU players since Buzz took over..ironically...I felt Jake would be a contributor/get playing time regardless of Vander's status when Jake transferred to MU...but certainly didn't see Jake being the 2nd leading minute getter on the team this year...or when I made comments he'd get PT when he transferred to MU - just thought he'd get spot minutes like what we saw last year..

To call what Jake got during the BE season and NCAA tourney "spot minutes" would be an insult to spot minutes.

A person of Jake's skill level on an outstanding team should play exactly as he did from Jan. 1 on last season. Of course, we are not an outstanding team this season.

[NersEllenson]

To call what Jake got during the BE season and NCAA tourney "spot minutes" would be an insult to spot minutes.

A person of Jake's skill level on an outstanding team should play exactly as he did from Jan. 1 on last season. Of course, we are not an outstanding team this season.

Good point...I actually thought the same as I wrote that statement...just didn't know how to express it otherwise...perhaps very situational/situation specific minutes..

[MU82]

Good point...I actually thought the same as I wrote that statement...just didn't know how to express it otherwise...perhaps very situational/situation specific minutes..

10 Big East games: no minutes at all. The other 8 BE games: 23 minutes total.

VERRRRRRY situational!

Jake seems like a nice young man and he has surprised me some with the few contributions he has made this season. But he would get real minutes for very few outstanding teams, just as he couldn't get minutes on an outstanding team last year.