I had a few thoughts

[keefe]

4.  Gardner is a liability right now.   Give his minutes to STjr and Deonte.   Ride Otule as long as you can.

Gardner can't score because our PG can't get him the ball. It's pathetic that Gardner has to score on 12' jump shots. What a waste of an asset. Gardner should have destroyed Creighton last night. Little wonder he's pissed off.

[forgetful]

Gardner can't score because our PG can't get him the ball. It's pathetic that Gardner has to score on 12' jump shots. What a waste of an asset. Gardner should have destroyed Creighton last night. Little wonder he's pissed off.

I know you aren't necessarily the one always saying it, but we fault Jake for not getting enough shots, because he doesn't create for himself and get himself open to get fed the ball in a position to score.

For Davante, we fault the rest of the players for not creating him open so that Gardner, who does not create for himself can get more shots.  Gardner is not working hard enough.

[keefe]

I know you aren't necessarily the one always saying it, but we fault Jake for not getting enough shots, because he doesn't create for himself and get himself open to get fed the ball in a position to score.

For Davante, we fault the rest of the players for not creating him open so that Gardner, who does not create for himself can get more shots.  Gardner is not working hard enough.

I stay out of player trashing sh1t fights but our guard play is killing us. Gardner can throw his hips around all he wants but the enemy is packing the lane and we are unable to work the ball inside. I really do think Buzz needs to make some strategic changes if we are to salvage this season.   

[brandx]

Gardner can't score because our PG can't get him the ball. It's pathetic that Gardner has to score on 12' jump shots. What a waste of an asset. Gardner should have destroyed Creighton last night. Little wonder he's pissed off.

Right - cuz Derrick's man is in the lane in front of DG. Now if Davante stood 30 feet from the basket on the perimeter - Derrick would pass to him all day.

[CTWarrior]

Teams adapted, but Gardner didn't try to learn counters to the new defense.  Rather, last year and this year he gets in a funk/bad attitude because defenses are playing him properly.  

What the heck is he supposed to do to adapt?  Usually when you face the double in the post, you kick the ball out to a shooter and make them pay.  At least the doubler should have to keep an eye on his guy and maybe that gives the post guy an opening to score.  Our shooter (Jake Thomas) is not open because the double never comes from his man.  The guy who is open is Derrick Wilson, and kicking the ball out to him just means we start the offense all over again, because he will not take that pass and shoot, he will not take that pass and drive, he will not take that pass and find a cutter and he will not take that pass and send it back for the re-post by Gardner because the doubler never really leaves Gardner when Derrick has the ball.  He will take that pass and dribble back to the point or pass to someone else who is 25 feet from the basket.  Therefore there is no defensive price to pay for doubling our post guy.  This is as basic as basketball gets.

Otule doesn't draw the same aggressive double team, and he is big enough to shoot over it.  Davante has neither the hops nor the quickness to beat the second guy.  He has tremendous hands and footwork, so he can get a single defender on his hip and get off an impressive array of shots from the ground.  That is very difficult for him with a double teamer that prevents him from using the dribble or room to use his footwork.

[tower912]

So, what you are saying is that Otule is more productive this year.


 In Gardner's defense, a lot of his points came off of penetration by Cadougan and Blue.   The defense would move just enough and with his phenomenal hands, he was able to catch and get the shot off against a single recovering defender. 

[Hards Alumni]

What the heck is he supposed to do to adapt?  Usually when you face the double in the post, you kick the ball out to a shooter and make them pay.  At least the doubler should have to keep an eye on his guy and maybe that gives the post guy an opening to score.  Our shooter (Jake Thomas) is not open because the double never comes from his man.  The guy who is open is Derrick Wilson, and kicking the ball out to him just means we start the offense all over again, because he will not take that pass and shoot, he will not take that pass and drive, he will not take that pass and find a cutter and he will not take that pass and send it back for the re-post by Gardner because the doubler never really leaves Gardner when Derrick has the ball.  He will take that pass and dribble back to the point or pass to someone else who is 25 feet from the basket.  Therefore there is no defensive price to pay for doubling our post guy.  This is as basic as basketball gets.

Otule doesn't draw the same aggressive double team, and he is big enough to shoot over it.  Davante has neither the hops nor the quickness to beat the second guy.  He has tremendous hands and footwork, so he can get a single defender on his hip and get off an impressive array of shots from the ground.  That is very difficult for him with a double teamer that prevents him from using the dribble or room to use his footwork.

Absolutely 100% true.

[CTWarrior]

So, what you are saying is that Otule is more productive this year.


In Gardner's defense, a lot of his points came off of penetration by Cadougan and Blue.   The defense would move just enough and with his phenomenal hands, he was able to catch and get the shot off against a single recovering defender.  

Well, you certainly could say that Otule is more effective when we are defended this way (Otule's biggest issue as a post player is that he can't catch the drive and dish pass with any consistency.  Much less of a problem this year since we don't seem to ever throw that pass.)  But maybe the question we should be asking is what can we do so that we are not defended this way and our best offensive weapon is eliminated?

I think the answer is to throw JJJ or Mayo out there more often and let Jamil Wilson start the offense more often and play without a true PG with the ball going through multiple players, each of whom is a threat.  

I have total faith in Buzz, by the way.  I think he thinks the above is true and is transitioning in this direction, and has good reasons that escape me (perhaps team chemistry, etc) for bringing the change about slowly.  

[ATL MU Warrior]

Well, you certainly could say that Otule is more effective when we are defended this way (Otule's biggest issue as a post player is that he can't catch the drive and dish pass with any consistency.  Much less of a problem this year since we don't seem to ever throw that pass.)  But maybe the question we should be asking is what can we do so that we are not defended this way and our best offensive weapon is eliminated?

I think the answer is to throw JJJ or Mayo out there more often and let Jamil Wilson start the offense more often and play without a true PG with the ball going through multiple players, each of whom is a threat.  

I have total faith in Buzz, by the way.  I think he thinks the above is true and is transitioning in this direction, and has good reasons that escape me (perhaps team chemistry, etc) for bringing the change about slowly.  

Or maybe Buzz releases the hounds and gives guys the green light to shoot prior to getting a paint touch.  That would open things up immensely.  Right now, we are probably working harder to get the ball in the paint than we are to find an open shot.  I would take our chances with opening up the offense and letting our front court (a strength against most teams) battle for offensive rebounds.

[forgetful]

What the heck is he supposed to do to adapt?  Usually when you face the double in the post, you kick the ball out to a shooter and make them pay.  At least the doubler should have to keep an eye on his guy and maybe that gives the post guy an opening to score.  Our shooter (Jake Thomas) is not open because the double never comes from his man.  The guy who is open is Derrick Wilson, and kicking the ball out to him just means we start the offense all over again, because he will not take that pass and shoot, he will not take that pass and drive, he will not take that pass and find a cutter and he will not take that pass and send it back for the re-post by Gardner because the doubler never really leaves Gardner when Derrick has the ball.  He will take that pass and dribble back to the point or pass to someone else who is 25 feet from the basket.  Therefore there is no defensive price to pay for doubling our post guy.  This is as basic as basketball gets.

Otule doesn't draw the same aggressive double team, and he is big enough to shoot over it.  Davante has neither the hops nor the quickness to beat the second guy.  He has tremendous hands and footwork, so he can get a single defender on his hip and get off an impressive array of shots from the ground.  That is very difficult for him with a double teamer that prevents him from using the dribble or room to use his footwork.

So what you are saying is that he is limited athletically and skill wise, but then his lack of production is his teammates fault.  Otule can outperform him on the current team, but we should bench everyone else that is holding Gardner back so he can start and excel?

And similarly D. Wilson is limited athletically and skill wise, but that is D. Wilson's fault....seems fair, we need to bench him immediately.

As for how to adapt not too hard actually.

First, he needs to actually start kicking the ball out.  He used to, but has largely stopped, D. Wilson is good about taking a kick out on a curl drive when his man is sagging (that's why he had so many points against ASU).  Others on the perimeter can make the shot after a kick out, problem is Gardner rarely looks to pass anymore. 

Second, Line up in the wide post and turn to take them off the dribble (he is capable there) or shoot if it is available.  If the double comes from D. Wilson's man here, Wilson can cut behind them for an easy layup...he hasn't done this though either. 

Third, quit trying to draw contact and a foul...refs have been on to his game for the past two years and it doesn't work anymore...just put the damn ball in the basket.

[jesmu84]

Or maybe Buzz releases the hounds and gives guys the green light to shoot prior to getting a paint touch.  That would open things up immensely.  Right now, we are probably working harder to get the ball in the paint than we are to find an open shot.  I would take our chances with opening up the offense and letting our front court (a strength against most teams) battle for offensive rebounds.

Agreed. What's weird to me, is, was this rule in place the last couple seasons? I seem to remember multiple guys shooting that trailing 3pter as soon as we got the ball into the half-court, without having any paint touches.