Tiger Woods

[ChicosBailBonds]

So after the NBA finals Jordan comes out and says yes I pushed Byron Russell does the NBA go back and take away the points?

I wouldn't use other sports as an analogy, golf is supposed to be driven by the rules and self governance, that's the backbone of the game.  In other sports, people are looking to gain an advantage often by breaking the rules all the time, hoping the refs don't call it.

[nyg]

Uh.. you guys do know they added a new rule (rule 33.7) in 2012 that allows ANY player to continue playing even if they signed an incorrect scorebard, right? The reason he's still playing isn't because he's Tiger, it's because the rules permit him from still playing. All of those guys saying he should DQ himself are dumb. It's a new rule. If they all disagreed with the rule (which it sounds like they do), take it up with the PGA.  

This is correct.

Just back from my course from a round and a this was a big point of contention.  The pros at the course stated the ruling was correct and the ruling was made by the Masters Rule committee under rule 46-1. Whether it was Tiger Woods or Peter Hansen, the ruling would have been the same.  Rule 33.7 took over and he was protected by that.

It is an integrity matter now, but no way should he withdraw.  He was penalized, basically took a trple bogey and move on. 

[ATWizJr]

I wouldn't use other sports as an analogy, golf is supposed to be driven by the rules and self governance, that's the backbone of the game.  In other sports, people are looking to gain an advantage often by breaking the rules all the time, hoping the refs don't call it.

I'm not sure this is the rule.  My understanding is that the intent of the rule is to protect a player when they have inadvertently committed an infraction that can only be ascertained later by virtue of video replay.  For example, a player grounds his club in a hazard by accidentally brushing a leaf or a grain of sand that cannot be known at the time but is later revealed by video replay.  This is a true accidental infraction.  What Tiger did was not accidental.  He purposely dropped his ball 2 years behind the spot of his previous shot.  He had every opportunity to call over a rules official to determine the proper place to drop and didn't.  He got confused and used the incorrect rule resulting in a penalty and a higher score than the one for which he vouched when he signed his card.

By misusing the new rule to allow Tiger to continue in the tournament, the questions of double standard will be debated and whatever Tiger's result is will be tainted.  Moreover, the integrity of the player and the motives of committee will be called into question.

If you're going to err in a game that is self regulated and depends on the honor system, it is better to err on the side of honor.

Otherwise what you have is....soccer.

 Too bad. But, Tiger had every chance to call for a ruling on the course or have the rule explained to him before dropping and did not choose to do so.  So, it's on him to do the right thing.  Now, however he is stuck.  The only way back to honor is to shoot a great round and withdraw while in contention.

[nyg]

I'm not sure this is the rule.  My understanding is that the intent of the rule is to protect a player when they have inadvertently committed an infraction that can only be ascertained later by virtue of video replay.  For example, a player grounds his club in a hazard by accidentally brushing a leaf or a grain of sand that cannot be known at the time but is later revealed by video replay.  This is a true accidental infraction.  What Tiger did was not accidental.  He purposely dropped his ball 2 years behind the spot of his previous shot.  He had every opportunity to call over a rules official to determine the proper place to drop and didn't.  He got confused and used the incorrect rule resulting in a penalty and a higher score than the one for which he vouched when he signed his card.

By misusing the new rule to allow Tiger to continue in the tournament, the questions of double standard will be debated and whatever Tiger's result is will be tainted.  Moreover, the integrity of the player and the motives of committee will be called into question.

If you're going to err in a game that is self regulated and depends on the honor system, it is better to err on the side of honor.

Otherwise what you have is....soccer.

 Too bad. But, Tiger had every chance to call for a ruling on the course or have the rule explained to him before dropping and did not choose to do so.  So, it's on him to do the right thing.  Now, however he is stuck.  The only way back to honor is to shoot a great round and withdraw while in contention.

Everybody will have their own opinion for a long time and the discussion could go on forever.  The bottom line is the Masters Rules Committee, who runs the tournament, made the ruling according to the rules of golf and thats the final say for the tournament.  Maybe the rules will now change, since it takes incidents like this for further rules discussion.

That being said, for some of you who play competitive golf and for those who are the "duffers", the Golf Gods always get back at you.  Maybe they are on Tiger now.  He just 400 degreed a birdie putt on #8 and then made a bad bogey on #9.  Ah, the Golf Gods..........

[jfmu]

Who cares? Many of the current players are happy that he's still playing.

[jesmu84]

I'm not sure this is the rule.  My understanding is that the intent of the rule is to protect a player when they have inadvertently committed an infraction that can only be ascertained later by virtue of video replay.  For example, a player grounds his club in a hazard by accidentally brushing a leaf or a grain of sand that cannot be known at the time but is later revealed by video replay.  This is a true accidental infraction.  What Tiger did was not accidental.  He purposely dropped his ball 2 years behind the spot of his previous shot.  He had every opportunity to call over a rules official to determine the proper place to drop and didn't.  He got confused and used the incorrect rule resulting in a penalty and a higher score than the one for which he vouched when he signed his card.

By misusing the new rule to allow Tiger to continue in the tournament, the questions of double standard will be debated and whatever Tiger's result is will be tainted.  Moreover, the integrity of the player and the motives of committee will be called into question.

If you're going to err in a game that is self regulated and depends on the honor system, it is better to err on the side of honor.

Otherwise what you have is....soccer.

 Too bad. But, Tiger had every chance to call for a ruling on the course or have the rule explained to him before dropping and did not choose to do so.  So, it's on him to do the right thing.  Now, however he is stuck.  The only way back to honor is to shoot a great round and withdraw while in contention.

Either you don't know what you're talking about or you're using incorrect language. In the same breath, you say Tiger got "confused and used the incorrect rule." Yet you also say what Tiger did was "not accidental." If you don't think Tiger's interpretation of the rule and subsequent drop based on that (incorrect) interpretation wasn't accidental, you're a fool. You're telling me a perfectionist and someone who is so used to the spotlight as Tiger is would intentionally break a rule and think he could get away with it based on video review (and random phone-ins from TV viewers... dumbest thing ever)? No way someone like Tiger does that intentionally. No way.

[ATWizJr]

Either you don't know what you're talking about or you're using incorrect language. In the same breath, you say Tiger got "confused and used the incorrect rule." Yet you also say what Tiger did was "not accidental." If you don't think Tiger's interpretation of the rule and subsequent drop based on that (incorrect) interpretation wasn't accidental, you're a fool. You're telling me a perfectionist and someone who is so used to the spotlight as Tiger is would intentionally break a rule and think he could get away with it based on video review (and random phone-ins from TV viewers... dumbest thing ever)? No way someone like Tiger does that intentionally. No way.

  We must not be communicating.  Tiger did not accidentally drop the ball 2 yards behind his early spot.  He intentionally did so.  This is in contrast to a player accidentally brushing a leaf in a hazard.  Both are infractions. One is a accident, one is intentional thinking the rule allowed it. Ne ces't pas?

[jesmu84]

  We must not be communicating.  Tiger did not accidentally drop the ball 2 yards behind his early spot.  He intentionally did so.  This is in contrast to a player accidentally brushing a leaf in a hazard.  Both are infractions. One is a accident, one is intentional thinking the rule allowed it. Ne ces't pas?

So are you saying Tiger intentionally broke the rule? Or accidentally broke the rule? No argument here that he intentionally dropped the ball 2 yards back. My disagreement was with WHY he dropped it 2 yards back.

[ATWizJr]

So are you saying Tiger intentionally broke the rule? Or accidentally broke the rule? No argument here that he intentionally dropped the ball 2 yards back. My disagreement was with WHY he dropped it 2 yards back.

 

I am saying he accidentally broke the rule.  But ignorance of the rule is no excuse.  Why did he drop it 2 yards back?  He said why he did that.  To get a better shot.  In other words, to gain an advantage.

[keefe]

 

I am saying he accidentally broke the rule.  But ignorance of the rule is no excuse.  Why did he drop it 2 yards back?  He said why he did that.  To get a better shot.  In other words, to gain an advantage.

The greatness of golf rests in its traditions. All players must respect that tradition or they are unworthy to set foot on any course.

[TJ]

My 2 cents on this issue:

1) It is absolutely ridiculous that the PGA and the Augusta Rules Committee take audience suggestions to review potential rules violations.

2) It's stupid that in this day and age PGA players still keep their own scorecard.  I know "tradition, integrity, self-governance, blah, blah...".  B.S.  An official should be keeping score.  It's silly that they keep this obsolete and unnecessary practice just for the sake of tradition.

3) All of this is over 5 feet.  2 strokes is more than enough penalty for the infraction.

[keefe]

My 2 cents on this issue:

1) It is absolutely ridiculous that the PGA and the Augusta Rules Committee take audience suggestions to review potential rules violations.

2) It's stupid that in this day and age PGA players still keep their own scorecard.  I know "tradition, integrity, self-governance, blah, blah...".  B.S.  An official should be keeping score.  It's silly that they keep this obsolete and unnecessary practice just for the sake of tradition.

3) All of this is over 5 feet.  2 strokes is more than enough penalty for the infraction.

As they say, character is about doing the right thing when no one is watching. This is a matter of honor. Golf is a game of gentlemen, by gentlemen, for gentlemen. One either understands that or one does not. Unlike so much of life today, situational ethics will never apply.

[jesmu84]

Golf is a game of gentlemen, by gentlemen, for gentlemen.

As a lifelong golfer, and being raised by a collegiate golfer, I definitely understand what you're saying. But it's the mentality here that also made golf an "elite" sport and led to things like Augusta only allowing white men for too long.

[keefe]

As a lifelong golfer, and being raised by a collegiate golfer, I definitely understand what you're saying. But it's the mentality here that also made golf an "elite" sport and led to things like Augusta only allowing white men for too long.

Honor Codes are far from elitist. The youngest Airman and most senior General are subject to it, regardless of gender, race, age, religion, education, etc... That universality suggests anything but elitism. I cannot speak for Augusta National but I am a member of a couple organizations where personal accountability is inviolable.

If Tiger Woods gained competitive advantage from an incorrect drop, regardless of intent, he should DQ himself. If he knowingly dropped the ball incorrectly to gain competitive advantage he cheated and should apologize to his brethren for betraying their trust. Some things are non-negotiable and trust is one of the most important.