MU not ready to retire Tony Miller's Number.

[mu_hilltopper]

I was googling a few MU related items and came across this article.    Interesting blast from the past .. Tony Miller up there?  5 year waiting period for number retirement .. hmm!

From Feb 16, 1995
The Journal staff[/b][/color]

Butch Lee and Bo Ellis were the key players on Marquette University's only National Collegiate Athletic Association championship team in 1977.

Dean Meminger, a former All-American, was most valuable player of the 1970 National Invitation Tournament and captain of the 1970-'71 Marquette team, perhaps the best in school history.

George Thompson, the school's all-time scoring leader, led a resurgence of the Marquette basketball program in the late 1960s and Don Kojis, who went on to a 12-year career in the National Basketball Association, is Marquette's all-time leading rebounder.

The five, all of whom had outstanding collegiate careers, are linked together by being the only basketball players in school history whose numbers are retired. The numbers hang together from the Bradley Center ceiling and serve as a constant reminder of the greatness of those athletes.

There is sentiment among some Marquette followers that point guard Tony Miller, the school's all-time assists leader and considered by many the key player in helping the team return to the National Collegiate Athletic Association tournament in 1993 and '94, should have his number 10 hanging from the rafters along with the others.

Some even think that Miller should be accorded that honor on March 4, when he and teammate William Gates are honored on senior day at the Bradley Center before the game against Memphis.

That, though, won't happen.

Marquette's policy since 1991 has been to wait at least five years before honoring a former player by retiring his or her number, and as long as Bill Cords remains athletic director, that won't change. He says Miller should be considered, but at the appropriate time.

"I feel a person has to graduate, and get get involved in society for a while and then we'll come back and revisit the situation," Cords said.

Some schools, such as Duke, which retired the numbers of Bobby Hurley and Christian Laettner during their senior seasons, don't wait until after an athlete has left school to honor them. Marquette, though, won't change its policy for Miller.

Miller has done much throughout his four years to be considered, whether it's now or later.

Miller has 842 assists heading into the Golden Eagles' game at 7 p.m. Thursday against the University of Alabama-Birmingham in Birmingham. He's 14th nationally on the all-time list in NCAA Division I and, depending on how many games the Golden Eagles play in post-season, could top the 900 mark.

Although Marquette's chance for a third consecutive bid to the NCAA tournament is a long shot at best, Miller had a lot to do with helping the team return there in 1993 after a 10-year absence, and again in '94, when Marquette advanced to the round of 16 before losing to Duke.

Thompson, whose number 24 was retired during his senior season before he played his last game in 1969, also believes Miller has done enough to be strongly considered.

"He's had a dramatic effect on the winning fortunes at Marquette," said Thompson, who serves as analyst on Marquette's radio broadcasts. "But again, having a number retired is a very subjective thing. It certainly should be considered by the university.

"What criteria they use, I have no clue, but whatever they do use should apply to his career and how it matches up with some of the greats like Meminger and Lee."

Miller, who is averaging 11.2 points, the highest of his four years at MU, has not been the scorer Meminger and Lee were. But, his assists average of 7.65 a game not only is highest in school history, but 12th on the all-time national list.

"I definitely think Tony's the reason the program got turned around," said Jim McIlvaine, Miller's former teammate and now a member of the Washington Bullets. "His guidance on the court made it all come together. He pulled all the pieces into one. He was the ultimate in smoothing everything out and making it work together."

Said Damon Key, another ex- teammate, "He was always there for me, always willing to listen to my problems. If anyone deserves to have his number retired, Tony does. He turned it around. He turned the whole thing around."

[Final Four or Bust]

I agree.  He is my favorite past MU player,  and I couldn't agree with Key's comments more, he did turn the program around.  And believe it or not, it was before Crean even got to campus.

[Avenue Commons]

"Marquette's policy since 1991 has been to wait at least five years before honoring a former player by retiring his or her number, and as long as Bill Cords remains athletic director, that won't change. He says Miller should be considered, but at the appropriate time."

Obviously Cords was on his way out as AD and Crean's leverage in the program has increased tremendously to the point where he probably calls all the shots in regards to the basketball program. Add to that Dwyane Wade's explosion in popularity worldwide, an NBA championship, and an Olympic medal and it makes sense to make an exception for #3.

As for Tony Miller, that article made me remember how awesome he was while at Marquette and what he did for the program. I would say he belongs up there before Diener, and I believe very strongly that TD should have his number retired. Come to think of it, if Tony Miller doesn't break Kentucky's press in that game, who knows where the Marquette program would have gone? That win to go to the Sweet 16 and face Duke was the 2nd most important win for Marquette basketball in the last 25 years. Only the win over Kentucky in 2003 would rank higher.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

can someone swing by PRN's house to make sure he isn't dead on the floor from a heart attack????   

[77ncaachamps]

I think Avenue Commons made some insights, but I think Travis Diener should be in there before Tony. I was at MU during Tony's latter years and think he was a phenomenal floor general. But I also though Aaron Hutchins was the BOMB!!!

Diener has done more for the MU. And that includes the years without Wade. Let's also not forget the fact that MU wouldn't be playing UK (your greatest game) if Diener didn't lift us past the first round versus Holy Cross. Moreover, he's one of the top 10 scorers in MU history - #3 in fact. Tony's not even on that list.

[spartan3186]

but he is #1 in assits by close to 300

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/all-time_assists_leaders

[Eye]

I think Tony Smith should be retired before Tony Miller.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I love DWade and the ceremony was fantastic, but we should have waited to retire his number.

In order, if we are retiring more numbers, it should be:

Tony Smith
Miller
Diener

AND THAT"S IT! Chones shouldn't be retired. The other three should be retired...or "honored."

[Avenue Commons]

Diener has done more for the MU. And that includes the years without Wade. Let's also not forget the fact that MU wouldn't be playing UK (your greatest game) if Diener didn't lift us past the first round versus Holy Cross.

Good point. I'm glad we have such a strong history of PG play to even have discussions like this. TD will probably have his number retired and Tony Miller might not. The reason is that TD will always be associated with the Final 4 and that connection will be enough to get his jersey retired. Tony Miller, on the other hand, lacks the pro career and the name recognition (that he deserves) to get his jersey retired.

I went to Marquette from 1993 to 1997 and in my four years there I saw Marquette go to the Sweet 16, almost win the NIT championship, go to the NCAA's, and finally win the C-USA tourney and go to the NCAA's. That's a really strong streak. I was proud of Marquette then and I'm proud of MU now. It's too bad the success of that era has been "clouded" by the failure of the program in Deane's final years and Crean's first couple of years.

[The Lens]

Diener has done more for the MU. And that includes the years without Wade. Let's also not forget the fact that MU wouldn't be playing UK (your greatest game) if Diener didn't lift us past the first round versus Holy Cross.

I went to Marquette from 1993 to 1997 and in my four years there I saw Marquette go to the Sweet 16, almost win the NIT championship, go to the NCAA's, and finally win the C-USA tourney and go to the NCAA's. That's a really strong streak. I was proud of Marquette then and I'm proud of MU now. It's too bad the success of that era has been "clouded" by the failure of the program in Deane's final years and Crean's first couple of years.

I'm very surprised that we did not honor the 1997 CUSA Tourney Champs Team this past season.  It was the 10 year anniversary, it would have made for a nice occasion at the BC.

[77ncaachamps]

Diener has done more for the MU. And that includes the years without Wade. Let's also not forget the fact that MU wouldn't be playing UK (your greatest game) if Diener didn't lift us past the first round versus Holy Cross.

I went to Marquette from 1993 to 1997 and in my four years there I saw Marquette go to the Sweet 16, almost win the NIT championship, go to the NCAA's, and finally win the C-USA tourney and go to the NCAA's. That's a really strong streak. I was proud of Marquette then and I'm proud of MU now. It's too bad the success of that era has been "clouded" by the failure of the program in Deane's final years and Crean's first couple of years.

I'm very surprised that we did not honor the 1997 CUSA Tourney Champs Team this past season.  It was the 10 year anniversary, it would have made for a nice occasion at the BC.

I, for one, think that there's no such thing as TOO MANY celebrations, BUT...

something happened in 1977 that overshadowed that great year of 1997. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think Avenue Commons made some insights, but I think Travis Diener should be in there before Tony. I was at MU during Tony's latter years and think he was a phenomenal floor general. But I also though Aaron Hutchins was the BOMB!!!

Diener has done more for the MU. And that includes the years without Wade. Let's also not forget the fact that MU wouldn't be playing UK (your greatest game) if Diener didn't lift us past the first round versus Holy Cross. Moreover, he's one of the top 10 scorers in MU history - #3 in fact. Tony's not even on that list.

Hutch had some other issues that I think prevented him from being in the rafters....if he moved beyond them, then sure.  If he hasn't, then I don't believe you will see him up there any time soon.

[77fan88warrior]

I remember some of the early Key teams where we couldn't bet the ball up court at all. I was looking at MU website about Tony Miller years and I can't believe what a poor job that MU does on their basketball history. It is appalling!

[Avenue Commons]

I think Avenue Commons made some insights, but I think Travis Diener should be in there before Tony. I was at MU during Tony's latter years and think he was a phenomenal floor general. But I also though Aaron Hutchins was the BOMB!!!

Diener has done more for the MU. And that includes the years without Wade. Let's also not forget the fact that MU wouldn't be playing UK (your greatest game) if Diener didn't lift us past the first round versus Holy Cross. Moreover, he's one of the top 10 scorers in MU history - #3 in fact. Tony's not even on that list.

Hutch had some other issues that I think would prevented him from being in the rafters....if me moved beyond them, then sure.  If he hasn't, then I don't believe you will see him up there any time soon.

No doubt. I wouldn't expect Hutchins' number to be retired anytime soon. Even if you evaluated players solely on their playing careers, he'd still be a few players back in line to receive this honor. He was a great college basketball player. I loved watching Hutch play.

[77ncaachamps]

I think Avenue Commons made some insights, but I think Travis Diener should be in there before Tony. I was at MU during Tony's latter years and think he was a phenomenal floor general. But I also though Aaron Hutchins was the BOMB!!!

Diener has done more for the MU. And that includes the years without Wade. Let's also not forget the fact that MU wouldn't be playing UK (your greatest game) if Diener didn't lift us past the first round versus Holy Cross. Moreover, he's one of the top 10 scorers in MU history - #3 in fact. Tony's not even on that list.

Hutch had some other issues that I think would prevented him from being in the rafters....if me moved beyond them, then sure.  If he hasn't, then I don't believe you will see him up there any time soon.

No doubt. I wouldn't expect Hutchins' number to be retired anytime soon. Even if you evaluated players solely on their playing careers, he'd still be a few players back in line to receive this honor. He was a great college basketball player. I loved watching Hutch play.

I agree. Hutch was a playmaker. (I can only hop Maurice is in his mold...cuz he looks like it - height, scoring, freshman of the year!)

I wasn't endorsing Hutch to be in the rafters. By all means, I do not think he belongs there...only the ELITE. Diener's ELITE, but Tony Miller is CLOSE to being a great guard. For what they did in the NBA, I'd like to see TONY SMITH and JIM CHONES there.

BTW, how many of the top 10 MU all-time scorers are NOT in the rafters? How many are?

Gotta go pick up the kids!!!

[Harrison]

That article encapsulates the whole problem that many of us had with the Wade retirment.  I love Dwade but so what if we wait 3-4, how ever many years, for him to get it done.  The breaking of principles and traditions diminishes the very honor and brings into question the motives and integrity of the person doing it.  No of course that comment will be attacked by calling me a Crean hater, which I am not.   Any time stuff like that is done that is often times the sentiment. I personally, feel  T Miller and T. Smith are both as deserving as Travis.  I loved the way and the heart all three played with.  My guess given the current leadership and agenda is that Travis gets retired before the other 2.     

[tonyreeder]

what Harrison said.  Wade's number should not have been retired until he graduated.   Tony Miller should go in before Diener but probably won't.    I put Tony Miller ahead of Tony Smith mostly because Tony Smith happened to play at a time when Marquette's program was putrid.  Certainly not his fault.   At one point Tony Miller was the only guy in NCAA history with some sort of weird combination. 1000 points, 900 assists and 500 rebounds.   Something like that.   

[bma725]

In order, if we are retiring more numbers, it should be:

Tony Smith
Miller
Diener

There are a couple of people who should be retired before any of those guys, but they never get their proper recognition.  Gene Berce, Ed Mullen and Dave Quabius. 

All three were All Americans, Berce more than once and Mullen was unanimous choice his senior year.  All of them played in the NBA.  All were members of the All Time Marquette team when they used to do those sorts of things.  Berce and Mullen are in the MU Hall of Fame.

But most of the people who saw them play aren't around now.  Berce is the youngest one, and he last played in 1948.  So these guys will never get their due, even though they deserve it as much if not more than the guys everyone is talking about.

[Avenue Commons]

In order, if we are retiring more numbers, it should be:

Tony Smith
Miller
Diener

There are a couple of people who should be retired before any of those guys, but they never get their proper recognition.  Gene Berce, Ed Mullen and Dave Quabius. 

All three were All Americans, Berce more than once and Mullen was unanimous choice his senior year.  All of them played in the NBA.  All were members of the All Time Marquette team when they used to do those sorts of things.  Berce and Mullen are in the MU Hall of Fame.

But most of the people who saw them play aren't around now.  Berce is the youngest one, and he last played in 1948.  So these guys will never get their due, even though they deserve it as much if not more than the guys everyone is talking about.

All this talk of old-timers makes me think of one particular former Marquette cager who deserves his number retired.....................

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I actually agree that I would have liked to see Dywane graduate before he got his number retired... but he is a once in a lifetime talent... and MU has done a great job capitalizing on him. I know that the motives can be questioned, but the end results (increased enrollment, visability, PR, etc.) speak for themselves.

It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't. If MU wasn't trying to use Dwyane to their full extent, and the program/school stumbled and had a few down seasons, people would be crying about how we should have been using Wade more to keep MU's profile higher...

If MU does pimp Wade as much as they have... then they get accused of bending tradition in the name of "marketing".... dun dun duhhhh.

[tonyreeder]

2002mualum,
very good post.  Clearly Marquette should and has marketed Wade to the full extent.  Does having his number retired enhance this ability to market him in some way?  It certainly helped for that one day but long term?   Begs the question- if Crean/Marquette continued to go to Wade to promote the university did Wade say "hey coach, about that number being retired?"

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

2002mualum,
very good post.  Clearly Marquette should and has marketed Wade to the full extent.  Does having his number retired enhance this ability to market him in some way?  It certainly helped for that one day but long term?   Begs the question- if Crean/Marquette continued to go to Wade to promote the university did Wade say "hey coach, about that number being retired?"

Yea, I mean, who knows how the conversations went?  From what we all know of Dwyane (and I knew him from a class in school) he is a pretty humble guy. I don't imagine that he was trying to get the school to retire his number.

I would bet the university approached him about it... personally I'm not sure what the rush to do it was... but, my gut tells me that MU is doing its best trying to strike while the iron is hot, and that is why they did it so soon.

Who could blame them? There are companies out there paying Dwyane big $$$ to represent their brand... MU is essentially getting him for free. They could have Dwyane Wade night every season and people would still love him just as much. I know it seem silly... but people just want to love that guy... and they want to show him how much they appreciate what he has done for MU.

Also, if the team really does where "team wade" uniforms next season, that would be another huge plus.

Like I said, there is probably a point of overkill at somewhere on the horizon... but also if MU wasn't using him to their full potential, they would be foolish.... he is becoming the type of athlete and man that transcends sports and time.