Will we finally press next year?

[MUCrisco]

While responding to a post in another thread, it occured to me how deep we might be next year.  Will we finally press?

I understand that we might not have had the depth to do it this year.  However, next year, especially if James comes back, how could we not press?  I would give equal minutes to James, McNeal, Matthews, Mbakwe, Barro, Hayward, Cubillan and Fitz.  I would give less minutes to Burke, Christopherson, and Acker, but I would make sure that they are part of the rotation.

When considering that 11 man rotation, only 3 are true bigs.  Currently, it appears that none of them have a true post up game, although I know Murf would disagree with that on Burke.  Still, their best offensive options seem to be receiving a pass from a penetrating guard and finishing.  So, we wouldn't really be losing any offense if we played more uptempo and didn't wait for our bigs to post up. 

However, if we do press, we could also put guys like Blackledge, Hazel or Saunders into the mix since their strength seems to be hustling and rebounding.  Imagine putting a guy like Blackledge on top of a diamond press, who's job is just to follow the ball, act crazy, and give as much energy as you can.

Now, the strength of the team is without question the guards, who with the exception of Cubillan, have yet to prove they can hit perimeter shots with consistency.  So, since we have a bunch of slashers, it only makes sense to want to get them out into the open court where there are less defenders in the area.  Also, another strength of the guards seems to be the amount of pressure they put on the ball, and their ability to get tips and steals.

So, if the strength of your team is the guards, and you lack offense through postups and even bigs in general, why wouldn't you use that to your advantage instead of letting your lack of size be a disadvantage?  Why wouldn't we press, since we have a deep enough bench and almost too many guys who deserve the same amount of playing time. 

Marquette hustles, dives for loose balls, plays with more excitement when they are in the open court, takes the ball hard to the rim, and defends with energy.  Isn't this the perfect recipe to press?  I truly think this gives us the best chance to win.  We want to force teams to play at out tempo and to our style, which is getting steals and transitioning.  Give me the diamond press.  Give me the scramble defense.  Give me the full court man to man.  Give me the 2-2-1 press.  I want 40 minutes of hell.

[drewm88]

Reading this got me imagining it....
and now I CAN NOT WAIT for basketball to come back!!!
A week and a half of off-season is plenty.

[rocky_warrior]

I'm with you - I'd love to see it.  I thought we'd use the press more this last year.  While we had a number of good athletes, we still didn't really have the depth to run 40 minutes of hell.

I think it's more likely to be used in 07-08, but I'm also not convinced that Crean is a 40 minutes of hell type of guy.  Maybe more like a 15 minutes of hell, with a structured offense & defense (still going for the deflection/steal/break) the rest of the time.  Crean is still learning and adapting though, so I may be dismissing it too much.  I guess time will tell.

Imagine putting a guy like Blackledge on top of a diamond press, who's job is just to follow the ball, act crazy, and give as much energy as you can.

I thought Crean was pretty clear that if Trend returns, he'll probably be red-shirted?

[MUCrisco]

I'm with you - I'd love to see it.  I thought we'd use the press more this last year.  While we had a number of good athletes, we still didn't really have the depth to run 40 minutes of hell.

I think it's more likely to be used in 07-08, but I'm also not convinced that Crean is a 40 minutes of hell type of guy.  Maybe more like a 15 minutes of hell, with a structured offense & defense (still going for the deflection/steal/break) the rest of the time.  Crean is still learning and adapting though, so I may be dismissing it too much.  I guess time will tell.

Imagine putting a guy like Blackledge on top of a diamond press, who's job is just to follow the ball, act crazy, and give as much energy as you can.

I thought Crean was pretty clear that if Trend returns, he'll probably be red-shirted?

I didn't know that about Trend.  I'm sure you're right.  Also, I have 13 guys listed, so obviously one will not be part of that rotation.  I just don't know who that would be. 

[rocky_warrior]

I guess I'm picking on you today, but 13 is ok, it's the 14th that's a problem. 

Here's Crean's words from Rosiak's blog on Blackledge:

http://www.jsonline.com/blog/index.aspx?id=308&month=02&year=2007&entry=32394

"There's never going to be a double standard for academics; you're either taking care of it or you're not. We don't sign players to have them remain eligible. We sign them to graduate. I would say if he's with us next year we're looking at a redshirt because he needs to be in a position to graduate from here."

[muhoosier260]

As big of a proponent of pressing/trapping as I am, its effectiveness is limited in the college game. Granted, I've seen HS teams demolish opponents b/c the team being pressed can't get the ball across half court. In the pros, you can't press b/c everyone on the floor is too skilled. I would like to see MU press though, they would absolutely rip apart lesser opponents, and could cause some confusion/turnovers for better teams, in addition they would definitely wear down a team that isn't very deep.
Problems with pressing:
An inexperienced squad could get waxed with an ineffective press if the opposing team advances the ball and gets open looks and layups. one would HOPEFULLLY think MU doesn't fall into this category, considering our core is upperclassmen, but I guess time will tell....

[MUCrisco]

I guess I'm picking on you today, but 13 is ok, it's the 14th that's a problem. 

Here's Crean's words from Rosiak's blog on Blackledge:

http://www.jsonline.com/blog/index.aspx?id=308&month=02&year=2007&entry=32394

"There's never going to be a double standard for academics; you're either taking care of it or you're not. We don't sign players to have them remain eligible. We sign them to graduate. I would say if he's with us next year we're looking at a redshirt because he needs to be in a position to graduate from here."

Ha.  My bad.

[tower912]

We did not have the depth at guard to press for more than short stretches this past season.   Only 4 on the team.  We also played most of the year with only 10 schollie players.   And everyone out there who would have liked to see Kinsella, Burke, or Lott at the back of a press, give a shout out. (crickets)   So now, we are down to 7 guys on the floor with the athleticism to press.  If you count Fitz.   40 minutes of hell was simply not an option.  4 minutes was the best we could do.  Much like married..... never mind.    If all of the newcomers have the athleticism that is attributed to them, AND can figure out TC's idiosyncracies and press philosophy, 40 minutes of pressing is an option.   And if they are all as athletic as advertised, we could legitimately go 13 deep with no drop off.   (drooling at thought)   Sure would be fun to watch, regardless of what Murf, alias Norman Dale, thinks. 

[Final Four or Bust]

I disagree -- we had the talent and the atheletes to press this year, and from what I can recall we did it only once or twice and were effective each time.  One was one of our early preseason games against a lesser opponent to get back in the game.

Based on what I've seen and the various game scenarios, I am convinced Crean will not ever have a pressing team.  If he didn't use it more last year, even in spurts, don't get your hopes up for next year as I think you will be disappointed.  I was waiting for it ma ny times last season and it never happened. 

[tower912]

We had the athletes to press in short bursts last year, not for an entire game.

[Niv Berkowitz]

Agree with you Tower. Yeah, I wish MU would press more under Crean, but last season didn't have enough to do it except in short spurts. Next year that shouldn't be the case. They should be able to do it more. We'll see.

I will be shocked if they redshirt a guy like Blacklege, though. You put him on the bench for one year and he comes back as a 10-minute-per-game guy. But, I also don't think it's fair to run a guy off the team because you made a mistake recruiting him. If he flunks out, though, that's a different story altogether. You owe it to him to see him through. But he owes it to the school/team to do what he's supposed to do to remain eligible.

[NYWarrior]

I will be shocked if they redshirt a guy like Blacklege, though. You put him on the bench for one year and he comes back as a 10-minute-per-game guy.

Redshirting a role player like Trend would be nuts.......that'd equate to 3 yrs on scholarship for one year of (minor) contribution.

[OneMadWarrior]

I thought they were releasing Trend of his scholarship. Crean has admitted recruiting him was a mistake.

[DAtruth]

pressing would give us more shots at the basket per game ..with a low shooting % team (which we have) this could make the difference between a good year and a great year..our bigs can run the floor..and possibly render opponents bigs to short minutes and few touches..overall as a team the speed-length(hayward,fitz,ooz), pressure defenders, slashers and athleticism is there..and we can go pretty deep if need be..even more appealing is the georgetowns of the world on most possessions..wont get everbody down the floor and get a play called with more than 25 seconds on the clock..i like the idea of having to defend from the 3 pt line in, 20 seconds or less of a possession

on the other hand..we turn the ball over an awful lot now..what happens when you turn the dial way up? dj's cramping issues would reach an all time high...and can the kids dedicate themselves to getting  in southern illinois shape..thats the big question to me..if the last question is a yes..i say its too appealing to pass up

[DAtruth]

my personal favorite press..the 1-2-1-1..sets up trapping angles all over the backcourt and keeps a man back with his head under the bucket..i hate giving up freebies on the press..fall back into a 1-3-1 trap..i hate teams that press then when its broke, packing in a tight 2-3..if your going to do it..do it

[muwarrior87]

while some of you believe we had the depth and athleticism to press constantly this year, we didn't. Like tower and others said, James, Matthews, McNeal, Cubillan, Fitz, Ouse, and Lazar were our main guys. There are 5 guys on the floor at once. With only 7 key players and a few roll players that got maybe 5 minutes a game if they were lucky, that's not enough depth to run the floor constantly and to press the whole game unless all you work on in practice and over the summer is getting these guys in good enough condition to play a back and forth game for 40 straight minutes. that would leave no time to work on shooting, passing and all the fundamental things that a team needs to succeed. This year bringing in Acker (i say redshirt Christopherson if James is back), Mbakwe, Saunders and Hazel adds quite a bit of depth and athleticism and gives us a much better chance to press for the majority of the game and run the floor without being completely drained by the 30-35 minute mark. Having guys come off the bench that can play well with our starters on the bench is key for a team to be able to play well while utilizing the press and next year we have that covered a lot more than we did this season.

[Murffieus]

Sounds good to blend a press in th a 3 guard offense------but to effect a quality press you need UAB type talent at all 5 positons and UAB type subs behind them.

How can MU press? all the opposition has to do is bring their center to mid court----hit him and break by for a return pass----I don't see how O Barro (too slow) isn't going to be able to prevent that pass to the opposition's center-----and therefore prevent the breakdown of the press!

[coach85]

are a number of ways to effectively "press" another team depending on the talent of the defense.  Remember, with the shot clock in play, a zone "press" can be effective just by slowing the advance of the offense.   The assumption that you must have athletes like UAB or the old Arkansas teams to have an effect are not valid. 

[Murffieus]

Well I believe MUCrisco is talking about an aggressive press.

Personally, i don't think the zone press you  describe is worth the time spent on it----use that practice time to teach the guys good sound half court defense and you accomplish the same thing without risking the open shot off the break.

Again if we zoned pressed in that manner -----is Barro going to be able to deny the high pass to the opponent's center breaking up the floor to receive the pass to relieve the pressure and even open up the floor to break opportunities?

IMO, that speeds up the game not eat up time!

[coach85]

I'm not advocating that any "press" - man or zone - be the only defense a team runs.  And, I agree that time is better spent in the half court working on base defense.

You assume in your statement that all opposing teams have a skilled
post presence who can catch and reverse the ball through the "press".  In the second half of the last home game of the season, MU was able to effectively use 3/4 court zone pressure vs. Pitt. Pitt was making a run and MU was in foul trouble. I don't recall Grey helping in the middle of the floor to make quick passes that lead to easy scores and increased the tempo of the game.  Grey, like most of today's post players, was coached to run to the rim in transition and be in position to finish the break or act as a last option vs. "presses".

[DAtruth]

counter the mid-court "bail out guy" with dj..1(hayward)-2(mcneal and mathews)-1dj-1-ooz...in the 1-2-1-1..lastguy is directly under basket..next to last guy..dj in my example at or just passed half court..really the hardest thing is geting the 2.. mcneal and mathews to know when to peel back and when to stay put when not directly applying pressure

[jmayer1]

Murf,
You act like Ooz is one of the slowest centers in the country when he is actually one of the faster ones.

Most times, bringing the center to half court to break the press is a horrible idea as there are always guards flying around, knocking the ball away.  The only way this works is if you have a skilled big man, like Bogut or Walton.  Marquette has the personnel to press very effectively at times next year.  I would love to see them press for 20-25 minutes a game.