Notre Dame and Marquette: Big 12 Hoops Options?

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

Let's throw this one out there in the hopper.

Instead of looking at this as 8 hoops schools and 5 football schools left, it should be more so 7-5-1, with the 1 being ND.

One of the major unspoken things in this whole realignment has been ND's deal with the Big East for access to their bowl bids. In return for access to one of the Big East's bowl slots in years they don't qualify for the BCS, they have to play a certain number of non-conference FB games against Big East opponents, typically 3.

With Big East football being depleted, the quality of their bowl arrangements, already week, will be further depleted.  Notre Dame is not giving up their football independence come hell or high water, but they need someone to give them access to quality bowl bids in exchange for their Olympic sports and some non-conference football games.

Since the ACC and Big 10 want everything, the only place ND can really look is the Big 12.  Big 12 is committed to staying at 10 teams, and there's been early rumblings they may be the only ones willing to allow ND to retain football independence.  ND's already got games scheduled in the next several years vs. Oklahoma and Texas, so ND giving up 2 more non-conference games vs. Big 12 teams is not going to matter much in exchange for an Alamo Bowl or Holiday Bowl spot every couple years.  Not to mention Texas' AD would salivate at the possibility of replacing Texas A&M on Thanksgiving Night with a game vs. Notre Dame on NBC.

But it will leave the Big 12 with 11 basketball teams. And much like the Big East was looking at finding TCU a travel partner for football, the Big 12 might have to find ND a travel partner for basketball that fits geographically.

Could MU be that fit?

Sure.

First, geography is not as damning as it seems.  Compare the travel distances of the Big 12 cities vs. the current Big East membership.  Other than most of these not being in major metro areas, the actual travel miles is not that much different.

Big East (Current)              City   School    Miles From MKE Tampa   USF   1263 Providence   Providence   1096 Storrs   Connecticut   1011 New York   St. John, Rutgers, Seton Hall   880 Philadelphia   Villanova   850 Washington   Georgetown   792 Syracuse   Syracuse   772 Pittsburgh   Pitt   552 Louisville   Louisville   388 Cincy   Cincinnati   387 Chicago   DePaul   92        Big 12 (with ND and WVU)              City   School   Miles From MKE Lubbock   Texas Tech   1225 Austin   Texas Tech   1225 Waco   Baylor   1123 Dallas   TCU   1026 Stillwater   Oklahoma State   843 Norman   Oklahoma   820 Manhattan   Kansas State   687 Morgantown   West Virginia   620 Lawrence   Kansas   607 Ames   Iowa State   359 South Bend   Notre Dame   186

Realistically, the Big 12 could organize into North/South divisions for hoops with MU, ND, West Virginia, Iowa State, Kansas, and Kansas State in the North, and Texas/Oklahoma schools in the south to further mitigate the travel.

Second, we all know the strengths of the Marquette brand, fan base, facilities, program history, recent success, etc.  It would further strengthen the basketball brand of whatever league we end up in, and help offset the Big 12's losses of Texas A&M and Missouri, two of the league more successful programs.

Third, obviously, is Buzz, and connections with Texas over the course of his career.  Though we survived several open Big 12 jobs this past spring, we'd be a lot less likely to lose Buzz down the line were we to be in a more Texas-centric league.

Fourth, back in early September, there were some rumblings from Mark Miller about forming an 8/10 football/basketball conference had the Big 12 fully crumbled and Texas/Texas Tech/Oklahoma/Oklahoma State bailed for the Pac 12.  MU and DePaul were involved in those discussions at the time with Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, Louisville, Cincy, Mizzou, and Pitt (before they took the ACC offer).

Given the current situation and the quality of options facing us, it might not hurt to call up ND and a few Big 12 ADs and ask the question again.  We might just get a yes.

[Marqus Howard]

I like this idea a lot better than the idea of a basketball only conference.

[kryza]

This plan works on so many levels. I can see Georgetown and Villanova also vying for that 12th spot (if there is one). But like you said, we'd make the most sense geographically and I'm sure Buzz would be all for it. Sign me up.

[brewcity77]

I just wonder, does it last? If we're going to be in a hybrid, isn't it better to be in one with some like-minded schools? We would be the only basketball-only in that situation. Sure, we might end up in a basketball-only Big East, but I feel like we have more in common and less to lose with schools like GTown, Nova, DePaul, and Providence. I say pass.

[GGGG]

I like this idea a lot better than the idea of a basketball only conference.

I also like the idea of building a time machine, going back and getting Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton and Michael Jordan, and bringing them back to play for Buzz.

To top it off, my idea is more likely to actually happen!

[Abode4life]

This will just put us in the same situation 5 or 10 years down the road.  Whenever it is inconvenient for the Big 12 football schools they will kick us out.

[BobWildLoyalist]

A basketball only conference is the only way we can avoid this happening to us again. We are (one of)the  odd man out in this situation. We need to stick to what we are good at in a conference that allows us to do it without being pushed around every 5-10 years. I think the quicker this happens the better for MU, the players, coaches, and fans.

[79Warrior]

I also like the idea of building a time machine, going back and getting Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton and Michael Jordan, and bringing them back to play for Buzz.

To top it off, my idea is more likely to actually happen!

that is funny. what is even funnier is people thinking MU has many options available. We are so far down the food chain here. MU, DePaul etc have little if any leverage in any hybrid format. We certainly will have a seat at the table for a hoops conference, but everything else is laughable.

[john31]

The best thing for MU would be hoops only conference, if we maintain membership in conference where football is the primary focus we will always just be begging for scraps. Get Dayton, Xavier, Memphis and Butler for starters and go from there. Remember that these programs are already solid and would probably get better with a hoops only conference affiliation. At least in this scenario you achieve some stability.

[GOO]

that is funny. what is even funnier is people thinking MU has many options available. We are so far down the food chain here. MU, DePaul etc have little if any leverage in any hybrid format. We certainly will have a seat at the table for a hoops conference, but everything else is laughable.

Not saying it's an optionnow.  But before all this madness began, there was a rumor that MU could land in a revised B12.  Likely, no.

[dgies9156]

First of all, I agree with what Father Pilarz said in Chicago last week. No matter what happens, we'll somehow be fine. Not sure what it is going to be, but we will be fine.

That said, and as an "old" alum (defined as one who was there during the Al era), I think I would rather be in a basketball only conference. I'm not sure we have a whole lot in common with athletic  factories like Texas, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and I'm also not sure how much we have in common with even Kansas and Kansas State.

By contrast, we're a good cultural fit with Georgetown, St. John's, Providence, Villanova and, potentially, Dayton, Xavier, Butler and maybe a few other A-10 schools. We fit well with Notre Dame if they stay with us, DePaul and perhaps Memphis and St. Louis. All are historical rivals that we've played a lot over the years and would maintain some of the historical zest we've had to our program.

I suppose in time I can learn to "hate" Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas. But it's not the same as "hating" Notre Dame, DePaul, Villanova and Georgetown. The latter is "real" hate born from sharing recruiting pools, potential students, upsets and television audiences.

Makes me wish the Jesuits had NOT cut football after 1960.

[Nukem2]

If MU still had FB, where would we be?  Certainly the emphasis on BB would have been far different.

[Skatastrophy]

If MU still had FB, where would we be?  Certainly the emphasis on BB would have been far different.

It's hard to say, but if MU still had FB we wouldn't have had any money to invest in any of our athletics programs because of our FB losses.  We probably wouldn't be playing D1 athletics.

[brewcity77]

If MU still had FB, where would we be?  Certainly the emphasis on BB would have been far different.

I wasn't around so I can't say definitvely, but it seems Al thrived on the Marquette atmosphere. Part of that is that he was the focal figure on campus, and people put up with and embraced his eccentricities maybe because he was the BMOC. Would he have stayed around and so thoroughly embraced what MU was about if he was in football's shadow?

And when conferences came around, would Marquette have had enough profile to even join C-USA, much less the Big East? Would a moribund football program have impeded our basketball program? Would we be in the MAC for all sports, or straddling conferences like Temple? Just my opinion, but we might be better off as a basketball school because we don't have football.

[GOO]

Agreed.  A crappy football team would be a money sucking hinderance right now, not an asset. 

[kmwtrucks]

We would be good as long as our sports were good, As long as ND stayed IND in football and as long as OKL and TEXAS stayed in the BIG 12.

Is that 3 years-5 years or 20 years.  I would do it in a second.  Bottom line is when the Big East folds we will always fall behind the other 5 conferences.  If we could find a home in one of those you should do it in a second. 

If it folds or they kick us out we are no worse off then we would be if we went to the BBALL only right away.  They will always take us.