CBS: Buzz #3 among coaches under 40

[Pakuni]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15234352/young-and-old-coaches-can-be-great-at-any-age

Young pups (40 and under) 

1. Brad Stevens, Butler: Other than Coach K, this is the easiest decision on the entire list. Stevens, just four years into his career, has gone to a pair of national-title games -- at Butler, of all places. He has won more than 82 percent of his games and has been to the NCAA tournament in all four of his seasons at the helm.
Age: 34
Career record: 117-25 (4 seasons)
National championships: 0
Final Four appearances: 2
   
2. Matt Painter, Purdue: Took Southern Illinois to the NCAA tournament in his one season leading the Salukis and then has completely revitalized the Purdue program and taken the Boilermakers to five consecutive NCAA tournament appearances -- including a pair of Sweet 16s.
Age: 40
Career record: 163-69 (7 seasons)
National championships: 0
Final Four appearances: 0

3. Buzz Williams, Marquette: Had a cup of coffee as the head coach at New Orleans before joining Tom Crean as an assistant at Marquette. When Crean left for Indiana, Williams got the job -- and has led the Golden Eagles to three consecutive NCAA tournament appearances, including a Sweet 16 this past season.
Age: 38
Career record: 83-54 (4 seasons)
National championships: 0
Final Four appearances: 0

4. Shaka Smart, Virginia Commonwealth: When you've gone to the Final Four before your 35th birthday, that's more than enough to play your way onto this list. Smart just concluded his second season with the Rams.
Age: 34
Career record: 55-21
National championships: 0
Final Four appearances: 1

5. Scott Drew, Baylor: At first glance, going to just a pair of NCAA tournaments in eight seasons doesn't look all that impressive. However, Drew took over one of the most unenviable situations in the history of college basketball and has made Baylor a legitimate player nationally. The Bears went to the Elite Eight two seasons ago and also went to the tourney in 2008.
Age: 40
Career record: 147-127 (9 seasons)
National championships: 0
Final Four appearances: 0

[Bocephys]

How are two coaches age 40 on the Top Coaches UNDER 40 list?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

How are two coaches age 40 on the Top Coaches UNDER 40 list?

don't ask questions.   

[Pakuni]

How are two coaches age 40 on the Top Coaches UNDER 40 list?

Because it's the 40 and under list.
My bad on the subject line, I guess.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Rather interesting same list from 2010


http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1108344

[Golden Avalanche]

Rather interesting same list from 2010


http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1108344

Great list.

Two of the top ten terminated within the year of its publication. The 2011 guys better start a rainy day fund.

[lurch91]

Both lists don't know what the heck they're talking about, EVERYONE knows you need to wait 4-5 years before you can grade any coach/hire........

[NersEllenson]

Both lists don't know what the heck they're talking about, EVERYONE knows you need to wait 4-5 years before you can grade any coach/hire........

That's a very good point, and therefore the accomplishments of the 2003 Final Four team should be discarded and Tom Crean's coaching performance that year relegated as inconsequential - because at that point he'd not completed the requisite 5 year evaluation period.

[PJDunn]

His report card was finished after the 2004 NIT debacle.

[bilsu]

His report card was finished after the 2004 NIT debacle.

Whether you like Crean or not the 2004 NIT debacle was due to season ending injuries to Diener and Grimm and the benching of the guard that transferred to LSU. The team at the start of the season was a very good team. The loss of Diener was devastating. Just think what would happen to UW this year, if Taylor got injured.

[bilsu]

Both lists don't know what the heck they're talking about, EVERYONE knows you need to wait 4-5 years before you can grade any coach/hire........

Sometimes you do not have to wait that long. I also think a lot of coaches go through a lull, after a good start. Weber at Illinois is an example of what I am referring to. He came in and won with Self's players. However his recruiting was subpar and Illinois fell off. Weber changed his recruiting approach and Illinios is on the rise again. After a few years a lot of Illinois fans wanted to fire him. Now that he is recruiting well the pressure is somewhat off. He still needs to win more, but he appears to be heading in the right direction now. Buzz may be hitting that lull now, since his 2011 recruiting class on paper is not as good as his prior classes. This is a big year for Buzz, because expectations are high for this team after making the sweet 16 last year.

[Pakuni]

Sometimes you do not have to wait that long. I also think a lot of coaches go through a lull, after a good start. Weber at Illinois is an example of what I am referring to. He came in and won with Self's players. However his recruiting was subpar and Illinois fell off. Weber changed his recruiting approach and Illinios is on the rise again. After a few years a lot of Illinois fans wanted to fire him. Now that he is recruiting well the pressure is somewhat off. He still needs to win more, but he appears to be heading in the right direction now. Buzz may be hitting that lull now, since his 2011 recruiting class on paper is not as good as his prior classes. This is a big year for Buzz, because expectations are high for this team after making the sweet 16 last year.

Changed his recruiting approach = hired Jerrance Howard.

[NersEllenson]

Sometimes you do not have to wait that long. I also think a lot of coaches go through a lull, after a good start. Weber at Illinois is an example of what I am referring to. He came in and won with Self's players. However his recruiting was subpar and Illinois fell off. Weber changed his recruiting approach and Illinios is on the rise again. After a few years a lot of Illinois fans wanted to fire him. Now that he is recruiting well the pressure is somewhat off. He still needs to win more, but he appears to be heading in the right direction now. Buzz may be hitting that lull now, since his 2011 recruiting class on paper is not as good as his prior classes. This is a big year for Buzz, because expectations are high for this team after making the sweet 16 last year.

Buzz fielded/recruited a team that made the Sweet 16 in just his 3rd season (with all of his guys).  He isn't hitting a lull at all.  In fact, if anything, the program is on a significant uptick.  Personally, I think the class of Anderson, Mayo, Jamil Wilson, and Derrick Wilson - could turn out to be his best class yet, thought not ranked as high as his previous 2...

[brewcity77]

Buzz fielded/recruited a team that made the Sweet 16 in just his 3rd season (with all of his guys).  He isn't hitting a lull at all.  In fact, if anything, the program is on a significant uptick.  Personally, I think the class of Anderson, Mayo, Jamil Wilson, and Derrick Wilson - could turn out to be his best class yet, thought not ranked as high as his previous 2...

Frankly, it will probably come down to how many of the players finish their careers at Marquette. Maymon, Williams, and Mbao are gone from the 2009 class, which leaves Cadougan and DJO as the crux of that class. Smith is already gone from 2010, so its success will be determined by what Blue, Gardner, Crowder and Jones can do as long as they are here. If Jones transfers out, we'll be looking at just two players from that class on the roster after Crowder graduates.

The class of Anderson, Mayo, Wilson, and Wilson (sounds like a law firm) could be fantastic if they all stay here for their entire careers, but at the same time, is it fair to include Jamil in this class? He was part of the 2010 class officially. What if two of them transfer out? It's pretty difficult to evaluate a class before we've seen any of them on the court, let alone dealt with potential transfers out.

[NersEllenson]

Frankly, it will probably come down to how many of the players finish their careers at Marquette. Maymon, Williams, and Mbao are gone from the 2009 class, which leaves Cadougan and DJO as the crux of that class. Smith is already gone from 2010, so its success will be determined by what Blue, Gardner, Crowder and Jones can do as long as they are here. If Jones transfers out, we'll be looking at just two players from that class on the roster after Crowder graduates.

The class of Anderson, Mayo, Wilson, and Wilson (sounds like a law firm) could be fantastic if they all stay here for their entire careers, but at the same time, is it fair to include Jamil in this class? He was part of the 2010 class officially. What if two of them transfer out? It's pretty difficult to evaluate a class before we've seen any of them on the court, let alone dealt with potential transfers out.

Agree with what you are saying.  I think it is also true that the volume of talented players being recruited into Marquette is higher now than in a very long time..which will breed more transfers as kids want to play now, and particularly those who are considered Top 100 recruits who have a hard time getting on the floor for any PT their freshman/sophomore year. 

To me you basically get 3 scholarships per class if you are perfectly balanced - if you "hit on" 2 of 3 every class you are doing a pretty good job, as that would translate into having 8 very good players, and perhaps 4 serviceable back ups who may eventually become transfers - or contributors by their senior year.  The question becomes, is the kid willing to sit for 3 years to see PT in his senior year, when he could transfer as a freshman or sophomore to a lower level/mid major and likely get decent/significant PT?

[lurch91]

Sometimes you do not have to wait that long. I also think a lot of coaches go through a lull, after a good start. Weber at Illinois is an example of what I am referring to. He came in and won with Self's players. However his recruiting was subpar and Illinois fell off. Weber changed his recruiting approach and Illinios is on the rise again. After a few years a lot of Illinois fans wanted to fire him. Now that he is recruiting well the pressure is somewhat off. He still needs to win more, but he appears to be heading in the right direction now. Buzz may be hitting that lull now, since his 2011 recruiting class on paper is not as good as his prior classes. This is a big year for Buzz, because expectations are high for this team after making the sweet 16 last year.

Looking back, maybe my first post should have been in teal.  It was a tongue in cheek jab at Chico's and his persistent rhetoric that no one can really say Buzz is a good/great head coach yet since he hasn't been on the job for 4-5 yet.

But I agree with you.  Sometimes, coaches show their true worth long before the 4-5 year mark.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Looking back, maybe my first post should have been in teal.  It was a tongue in cheek jab at Chico's and his persistent rhetoric that no one can really say Buzz is a good/great head coach yet since he hasn't been on the job for 4-5 yet.

But I agree with you.  Sometimes, coaches show their true worth long before the 4-5 year mark.

And sometimes they burnout before they get there.  The 2010 list alone shows that, doesn't it?  Can probably rattle off 50 other examples as well.  Plenty of guys heralded as "top 10", can't miss, etc, etc in their early parts of their careers only to have them not maintain or achieve a higher level.

I prefer to wait 4 of 5 years.  You don't.  That's your prerogative.  This is a big year this year.  I felt Buzz did a great job two years ago, but last year we slipped to the bottom half of the conference.  A very nice NCAA run against teams we matched up well against helped greatly.  The NCAA is a crapshoot and this year we got great matchups against teams that can't shoot the 3 very well (good thing, because we are horrible at defending it).  Hopefully we return to the upper half of the conference this year.  With the talent we have, no reason why we shouldn't.

[NersEllenson]

And sometimes they burnout before they get there.  The 2010 list alone shows that, doesn't it?  Can probably rattle off 50 other examples as well.  Plenty of guys heralded as "top 10", can't miss, etc, etc in their early parts of their careers only to have them not maintain or achieve a higher level.

Do you classify Tom Crean in this category?   

And would you please stop with the lucky matchup etc in this past year's NCAA tourney.  We beat a 6 and 3 seed as an 11 seed.  We'd never beaten Syracuse in program history until this year - in two hotly contested games.  Just give the team a little credit.  And Buzz too.  Thank you.

[mviale]

Here is to 4 straight appearances in the NCAAs

[Marquette84]

We'd never beaten Syracuse in program history until this year -  

Wrong.

We beat Syracuse twice in program history prior to this year.  
2/20/43 MU 50, Syracuse 48
12/17/83 MU 79, Syracuse 68

We're now 4-7 all time against Syracuse.

[lurch91]

Wrong.

We beat Syracuse twice in program history prior to this year.  
2/20/43 MU 50, Syracuse 48
12/17/83 MU 79, Syracuse 68

We're now 4-7 all time against Syracuse.

I think he meant since we'd joined the Big East.

[Marquette84]

I think he meant since we'd joined the Big East.

He specifically referred to "in program history." 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Do you classify Tom Crean in this category?   

And would you please stop with the lucky matchup etc in this past year's NCAA tourney.  We beat a 6 and 3 seed as an 11 seed.  We'd never beaten Syracuse in program history until this year - in two hotly contested games.  Just give the team a little credit.  And Buzz too.  Thank you.

I did give the team credit...we played two teams that fit our style very and defeated them.  The matchups were very good.  Well done by the boys.

NO, I don't put Crean in that category because after year 5 he went to 4 more NCAA tournaments and is about embark on something substantial at IU.  Just my opinion.

[NersEllenson]

I think he meant since we'd joined the Big East.

Thanks Lurch - you are correct...though I did say program history (I was too lazy to go back to 1943, or even 1983), as what happened basically 30 and 70 years ago doesn't seem too relevant to discussions about recent MU basketball topics and team performance...

However 84 - Since I know you get off on being right - you were right that I did write program history, and I was wrong for saying never before in program history.  Congratulations on your rightness, may it satisfy you to your core this evening and for the remainder of time.  Can you share with me any more nuggets of MU hoops history from 1943?  I'm really curious about what transpired back then.

[Marquette84]

Thanks Lurch - you are correct...though I did say program history (I was too lazy to go back to 1943, or even 1983), as what happened basically 30 and 70 years ago doesn't seem too relevant to discussions about recent MU basketball topics and team performance...

So the next time someone mentions Al McGuire, I fully expect you to complain that something that happened 34 to 47 years ago " doesn't seem too relevant to discussions about recent MU basketball topics and team performance..."