New Draft Express tonight keeps Jimmy F Butler #2 pick in 2nd round (Cavs)

[NersEllenson]

Yao Ming
Dirk Nowitzki
Hedo
Manu
Sasha V
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Tony Parker
Deng
Okur
AK-47
Big Z

seriously, thats just a short list.

If you really want to get into it, Steve Nash is from South Africa, and Tim Duncan is from St. Croix.

Jimmy Butler, or the potential for one of those?  I realize they aren't all going to be Dirk, and the GMs do too.  The NBA drafts on POTENTIAL, not how well a players has played.  It doesn't matter a hill of beans if he played in the BEAST or the SEC, or the WAC.  If the best college players were the best NBA players, Christian Laetner would be a HOF player.

Also, if my aunt had a cock, she would be my uncle.

I suspect if you made a list of all the Euros drafted in both the first and second round who flamed out - the list would be significantly longer.  Nash, Duncan, Dieng played college ball in the states.  Sasha V is a scrub..

Regardless, we can agree to disagree on Jimmy Butler's potential - I happen to think he has a lot of potential at 21 years old, and you seem to think there are 18, 19, or 20 year old Euro's that have more potential who have never played high major college ball - yet it is high major college ball that feeds 80% of the players to the NBA..

[Hards Alumni]

I suspect if you made a list of all the Euros drafted in both the first and second round who flamed out - the list would be significantly longer.  Nash, Duncan, Dieng played college ball in the states.  Sasha V is a scrub..

Regardless, we can agree to disagree on Jimmy Butler's potential - I happen to think he has a lot of potential at 21 years old, and you seem to think there are 18, 19, or 20 year old Euro's that have more potential who have never played high major college ball - yet it is high major college ball that feeds 80% of the players to the NBA..

Three posts and claims into this, and I haven't seen you back up your made up statistics once.  On the other hand, I made a short list of more than 10 foreign players who have started in the league consistantly.  Would you prefer 30 before you eat a bit of crow?  

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=All-World-30Best

I realize the list is fom 2007, but many of the players are still relevant, and others have been added.  Also, Nash went to Santa Clara... not exactly a 'high major'.

Now do you realize why people don't bother to argue with walls?

[NersEllenson]

Three posts and claims into this, and I haven't seen you back up your made up statistics once.  On the other hand, I made a short list of more than 10 foreign players who have started in the league consistantly.  Would you prefer 30 before you eat a bit of crow?  

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=All-World-30Best

I realize the list is fom 2007, but many of the players are still relevant, and others have been added.  Also, Nash went to Santa Clara... not exactly a 'high major'.

Now do you realize why people don't bother to argue with walls?

How many players are in the NBA Hards?  Try 13 x 30 teams or 390 players...which your list of 30 translates into 7.6% of all NBA players...the rest..where do they come from??  The U.S.  You've provided a list from 2007 of 30 foreign born players - of which about 7 played college ball in the States - Ben Gordon, Deng, Duncan, Nash, Bogut.  Many on this list are from from sure-fire starters which you argue is why you draft a Euro instead of Jimmy.  

Perhaps the stat Houston Warrior provided earlier about the NBA being 80% US, 20% foreign was high - but I took him at his word.  I would like to hear your explanation as to why you think drafting a Euro gives an NBA chance a better chance at getting a starter caliber player - when the league is at minimum 80% American...and your above list which lists the Top 30 foreign players or 7.6% of the NBA roster total - includes guys who aren't even starters.

Is that enough statistics for you?  Now do you realize why I try not aruge/debate with wrestlers like yourself over basketball matters?

[Hards Alumni]

How many players are in the NBA Hards?  Try 13 x 30 teams or 390 players...which your list of 30 translates into 7.6% of all NBA players...the rest..where do they come from??  The U.S.  You've provided a list from 2007 of 30 foreign born players - of which about 7 played college ball in the States - Ben Gordon, Deng, Duncan, Nash, Bogut.  Many on this list are from from sure-fire starters which you argue is why you draft a Euro instead of Jimmy.  

Perhaps the stat Houston Warrior provided earlier about the NBA being 80% US, 20% foreign was high - but I took him at his word.  I would like to hear your explanation as to why you think drafting a Euro gives an NBA chance a better chance at getting a starter caliber player - when the league is at minimum 80% American...and your above list which lists the Top 30 foreign players or 7.6% of the NBA roster total - includes guys who aren't even starters.

Is that enough statistics for you?  Now do you realize why I try not aruge/debate with wrestlers like yourself over basketball matters?

You are so incredibly short sighted and defensive about EVERYTHING.  My God.  Those are the TOP 30 players, and that was 4 years ago.  Your argument now makes another assumption that none have been drafted in the last 4 years, IN ADDITION to your assumption that the 30 named was an all-inclusive list.

I'm done arguing with nit picking idiots like you.  You harp on 84 worse than anyone, and you are the same damn person with a different point of view.  

GET OVER YOURSELF, NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK 95% OF THE TIME.  At least I am smart enough to realize that about myself.  

Or you could just watch the draft tomorrow and then talk all the crap you want.  I am saying what GMs WILL do, and you are trying to say what GM's should do.

I apologize if you can't read and don't understand that was the argument that I was making from the beginning.

As for Hou's stats, they are pretty accurate, with a few less foreign players than 20% (13.5%)...  Though, that has nothing to do with my argument.

http://www.rpiratings.com/NBA.html

edit: remove the personal stuff.

[NersEllenson]

You are so incredibly short sighted and defensive about EVERYTHING.  My God.  Those are the TOP 30 players, and that was 4 years ago.  Your argument now makes another assumption that none have been drafted in the last 4 years, IN ADDITION to your assumption that the 30 named was an all-inclusive list.

I'm done arguing with nit picking idiots like you.  You harp on 84 worse than anyone, and you are the same damn person with a different point of view.  

GET OVER YOURSELF, NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK 95% OF THE TIME.  At least I am smart enough to realize that about myself.  

Or you could just watch the draft tomorrow and then talk all the crap you want.  I am saying what GMs WILL do, and you are trying to say what GM's should do.

I apologize if you can't read and don't understand that was the argument that I was making from the beginning.

As for Hou's stats, they are pretty accurate, with a few less foreign players than 20% (13.5%)...  Though, that has nothing to do with my argument.

http://www.rpiratings.com/NBA.html

edit: remove the personal stuff.

No worries Hards...I'm completely baffled as to what point you are trying to make...much like 84, you twist and contort things to try to correct flawed logic from the beginning and just dig a deeper and deeper hole.

To refresh - you stated you don't draft a Jimmy (high major college player - who will be nothing more than a role player without starter potential with limited upside in the NBA), but instead draft a Euro who has more upside and could be a starter.  Then, after examining the statistics it shows only 13% of the NBA is foreign, yet some of those foreign born players played in the US at high-major schools, and your TOP 30 foreign player list includes many players who aren't even starters in the NBA? 

Your initial statement had NOTHING to do with what NBA GM's will do - it was about what you would do - and that was draft a Euro, over a guy like Jimmy, because Jimmy will never be anything but a role player in the NBA.  (Fair for you to have that opinion for sure, but to no surprise, I disagree...think Jimmy will evolve into a starter in the NBA and have a nice career.)

[GoldenWarrior]

From a purely selfish perspective, I really hope Jimmy comes to Cleveland.  He sounds like a great kid, and I'd love to have him here in town and get a chance to follow his NBA career up close.

I too would love if he went to Cleveland. I'm a big Cavaliers fan and think that Jimmy's defensive abilities alone would get him on the floor with Scott as our coach. His work ethic and leadership would also be big time positives in Scott's eyes.

[Hards Alumni]

No worries Hards...I'm completely baffled as to what point you are trying to make...much like 84, you twist and contort things to try to correct flawed logic from the beginning and just dig a deeper and deeper hole.

That'd be you, buddy.

Your initial statement had NOTHING to do with what NBA GM's will do - it was about what you would do - and that was draft a Euro, over a guy like Jimmy, because Jimmy will never be anything but a role player in the NBA.  (Fair for you to have that opinion for sure, but to no surprise, I disagree...think Jimmy will evolve into a starter in the NBA and have a nice career.)

Perhaps you should reread my initial statement.