HOF coaches and "free fall seasons"

[mug644]

Found myself thinking today about Michigan St. this year, UNC last year (and this year, to a lesser degree), UConn not too long ago and Arizona in one (or more?) of Olson's last years.

Teams that seemingly have so much talent and are led by Hall of Fame coaches, but for whatever reason  (though they don't necessarily seem to be injury related), go through seasons that are essentially disasters.

Any thoughts as to why? Now, I'm sure that each team had its own peculiarities, but common wisdom would say that HOF coaches would be able to prevent it, right?

I guess I speculate that players tend to be more self-focused than in the past, get disgruntled and frustrated easier, and might be less likely to listen to a coach to help prevent a stumble from turning into a slide down down down. On the coaching side, might some of these HOF coaches be more set in their ways and not as responsive to kids being different these days? (That was certainly an accusation against Bob Knight, and I recall hearing it about Jim Calhoun.)

But, what do I know? I found it an interesting train of thought, and figure you all would have other insights.

[GGGG]

Chemistry.

And I think Raymar Morgan (graduation) and Chris Allen (suspension) meant more to them than people realized.

HOF coaches will also bounce back and I fully expect Izzo to do so.

[NickelDimer]

In the case of Lute and to a lesser extent Izzo, I think they lost their teams because their teams sensed they weren't "all in".  Lute was clearly phasing himself out and I believe Izzo's flirtation with the Cavs lost him some trust of his players. 

[RawdogDX]

No, 'kids' are not different these days.  Young men are young men. Scouting is not a perfect science. You could make the argument that: recruiting while holding a team together is a lot harder because early entry into the NBA. 

But, I think a more likely scenario is that you just don't remember the occasional NIT year that past HOF coaches had.  So, how about you stop expecting greatness for 3 consecutive decades and give the coaches a pass for an off year.  Stop bashing an entire generation of people with baseless stereotypes.

[mug644]

No, 'kids' are not different these days.  Young men are young men. Scouting is not a perfect science. You could make the argument that: recruiting while holding a team together is a lot harder because early entry into the NBA. 

But, I think a more likely scenario is that you just don't remember the occasional NIT year that past HOF coaches had.  So, how about you stop expecting greatness for 3 consecutive decades and give the coaches a pass for an off year.  Stop bashing an entire generation of people with baseless stereotypes.

Interesting. I had started to type something in my original post about probably having a selective or short memory, but I decide not to make my post any longer.

I acknowledge that I was generalizing, but I certainly didn't realize that I was bashing an entire generation. Didn't mean to. Just found it interesting to ponder the reality that top coaches and top talent can still combine for terrible seasons.

Thanks for sharing.

[Lennys Tap]

Chemistry.

And I think Raymar Morgan (graduation) and Chris Allen (suspension) meant more to them than people realized.

HOF coaches will also bounce back and I fully expect Izzo to do so.

Achievement = talent and vice versa. If you want to know the talent level of a team simply look at their record/finish at the end of the season. Last year, without their best player (Lucas), MSU had Final 4 "talent". This year, with him back (plus a 5* and 4* freshman) minus Morgan (undrafted Israeli league player) and Allen (8ppg 2 guard) they apparently have NIT type talent. Of course this is only true in the bizzaro world of Marquette 84, where coaching, chemistry and the ability to over or under achieve talent doesn't exist.

[Pakuni]

No, 'kids' are not different these days.  Young men are young men. Scouting is not a perfect science. You could make the argument that: recruiting while holding a team together is a lot harder because early entry into the NBA. 

But, I think a more likely scenario is that you just don't remember the occasional NIT year that past HOF coaches had.  So, how about you stop expecting greatness for 3 consecutive decades and give the coaches a pass for an off year.  Stop bashing an entire generation of people with baseless stereotypes.

If kids aren't different these days how do you explain the huge upswing in the number of transfers - even mid-season transfers - among D-I players?
It's not an inherent pejorative to say kids are different these days. Different means just that - different.
I'd suggest that it would be impossible for kids not to be different today given the level of exposure and hype they receive today compared with two decades ago. I mean, ESPN just dedicated a full day of live programming on one of its networks to broadcasting and analysing where a bunch of teenagers would go to college. The WWL nationally broadcasts high school games in prime time. There are dozens of web sites dedicated to covering high school athletes. Again, how could kids not be different?

As to the OP's original question ... perhaps we should just accept as fact that even elite programs with elite coaches are going to have some not-so-elite seasons.

[4everwarriors]

Thankfully Stew at USU is holding his own.

[Pakuni]

Thankfully Stew at USU is holding his own.

Legend has it.

[JWags85]

Thankfully Stew at USU is holding his own.

22-2, and they have played 2 top 100 teams...both of their losses.  Yeesh.

[TallTitan34]

22-2, and they have played 2 top 100 teams...both of their losses.  Yeesh.

And having no wins against any top 100 team gets them a 17 ranking this week.

[RawdogDX]

If kids aren't different these days how do you explain the huge upswing in the number of transfers - even mid-season transfers - among D-I players?
It's not an inherent pejorative to say kids are different these days. Different means just that - different.

Because it is being more culturally acceptable.  And plenty of that upswing is caused by over recruiting and coaches driving them out.

He didn't just say that kids are 'different'.  Go read the original post.  More selfish, disgruntled, lower frustration tolerance and less coachable.

Bashing was probably an overstatement, but it sure wasn't a compliment.