2011 Prospects we are in on

[NersEllenson]

It's getting to be that time of summer when we start to hear of players making commitments.  Can some of the board experts add to the below list as to who we are targeting/or when we might hear of some commits?

Dawsen
Faust
Shaw
Thompson

These are the 4-highest profile guys, that I'm aware of - please add on.  Lastly, given all of the talent at MU, should we expect to continue to be able to sign Top 50/100 players - or will we fight the perceived playing time challenge?

[Shanunu]

Josiah Turner (#12 Rivals) Ky Madden (#19) Rodney Hood (#34) Jahii Carson (#49)

These are the guys in Rivals top 100 that we've offered and still have interest, according to Rivals.

EDIT: That's in addition to the guys Ners mentioned.

[MarkCharles]

Josiah Turner (#12 Rivals) Ky Madden (#19) Rodney Hood (#34) Jahii Carson (#49)

These are the guys in Rivals top 100 that we've offered and still have interest, according to Rivals.

I believe I saw an article from about 2 weeks ago where Ky Madden cut down his list to 3 or 4 and we didn't make it.

[Shanunu]

I believe I saw an article from about 2 weeks ago where Ky Madden cut down his list to 3 or 4 and we didn't make it.

I'm not an insider on Scout.com but apparently Ole Miss is his #1 now.

[HoopsMalone]

Lastly, given all of the talent at MU, should we expect to continue to be able to sign Top 50/100 players - or will we fight the perceived playing time challenge?

It might hurt actually as players will won't to see the floor just by showing up as a 4-star recruit like the case was with the Amigos and Lazar.  I think Buzz should look at it as a reason to recruit need rather than best available player. 

Buzz got the job in April and had to scramble for who he could get the first year.  His 2009 and 2010 classes were scrambles as Crean's departure left the cupboard bare with his inability to put players around the three amigos and the players he did bring leaving.  Buzz had to throw together what should have been four recruiting classes into two and scrambled to find 6 or 7 quality players in a class.  That is now over.

Unless Buzz can get a once in a lifetime talent, he should not pick up any wing players.  He should focus on adding interior defense.  He should be picky.  Maybe add a PG.  Otherwise, focus on building relationships with good wing players for 2012 and 2013.  We have taken good steps with Otule and Gardner, but now Buzz should be picky and get us a nice front line. 

[Marquette84]

Buzz got the job in April and had to scramble for who he could get the first year. 

In as neutral a way possible, let me ask this question:
What do you believe Buzz was doing as an MU assistant in 2007-08 if he wasn't finding recruits, building relationships, and identifying recruits for future years.

Maybe I'm wrong about the role of an assistant, but my impression is that they are supposed to be the ones out finding recruits, winnowing down those who have talent from those who don't, and making the initial pitch to generate interest.  Wasn't Buzz the guy who went out and found Joe Fulce, Chris Otule and Eric Williams as an assistant? 

Therefore, I find it hard to understand why Buzz had to "scramble" in 2008 when he was hired--no less 2009 or 2010.   Wouldn't he have just reached out to all the players that he was already recruiting for MU?

In other words, I assumed that Buzz was already recruiting Big East quality players for MU on the day he was hired. Is that wrong?

[KipsBayEagle]

Any word on Cinmeon Bowers, a local kid who plays the 4?  I am not sure but I feel like someone mentioned here in the past that he was also a football recruit.

[GOMU1104]

Any word on Cinmeon Bowers, a local kid who plays the 4?  I am not sure but I feel like someone mentioned here in the past that he was also a football recruit.

Jumped around to a bunch of schools...reclassified to 2012...I think hes back in MPS, not 100% sure though.

[HoopsMalone]

In as neutral a way possible, let me ask this question:
What do you believe Buzz was doing as an MU assistant in 2007-08 if he wasn't finding recruits, building relationships, and identifying recruits for future years.

Maybe I'm wrong about the role of an assistant, but my impression is that they are supposed to be the ones out finding recruits, winnowing down those who have talent from those who don't, and making the initial pitch to generate interest.  Wasn't Buzz the guy who went out and found Joe Fulce, Chris Otule and Eric Williams as an assistant? 

Therefore, I find it hard to understand why Buzz had to "scramble" in 2008 when he was hired--no less 2009 or 2010.   Wouldn't he have just reached out to all the players that he was already recruiting for MU?

In other words, I assumed that Buzz was already recruiting Big East quality players for MU on the day he was hired. Is that wrong?

Sure he was recruiting players and developing relationships.  It is not like you or I got the job and had to be introduced cold to players.  

But players play for the head coach, not the assistant.  Buzz may have recruited Taylor, but Crean was a key in Taylor coming to MU.  The 2008 class was nice, but the two guards which were the centerpiece to the class and would have added depth to the Amigos' team and allowed Buzz to have guards in place to transition from the Amigos era.  I think you can characterize the Hurley stuff and Buzz trying to keep Tyshawn as a scramble to put together a class in 2008.  

Losing Tyshawn was not good for the program at the time, and Buzz was able to cope with it and Maurice Acker's 2009-10 season made up for that loss.  I don't think we all appreciate how much Maurice Acker really did to get us into the second round when D James got hurt and lead us to a nice season last year.  Things could have gotten really bad here with James' and Cadougan's injuries and we would have been pointing back to Tyshawn Taylor had Acker not stepped up.  

You can characterize the situation Buzz got in 2008 however you want and it is really mute.  I think going from assistant to head coach with no experience did cause Buzz to scramble and lose Tyshawn as you now have to recruit players to an uncertain spot with him coaching rather than Crean with his final four experience.  Losing the two most hyped recruits in the class would definitely force one to scramble.  

He did a heck of a job, though, since he got Jimmy in during April who definitely turned out to be better than Nick Williams and a toss up for Tyshawn.  We can look back on Buzz's scramble in April 2008 as a great thing for the program.

[GGGG]

Therefore, I find it hard to understand why Buzz had to "scramble" in 2008 when he was hired--no less 2009 or 2010.   Wouldn't he have just reached out to all the players that he was already recruiting for MU?

He had to scramble in 2008 due to Nick Williams and Tyshawn Taylor being let out of their NLIs.  He was left with one freshman (Otule), two JC transfers (Butler and Fulce) and a transfer from another four year school (McMorrow).  I know that Otule and Fulce were onboard before Crean left.

I really wouldn't say he had to scramble in 2009....certainly not in 2010.

[willie warrior]

If Buzz can land Dawson and Faust, we can all Hosanna him.

A quality big would be gravy on the cake, or icing on the potatoes.

[HoopsMalone]

I really wouldn't say he had to scramble in 2009....certainly not in 2010.

He did not have to scramble like he did in 2008.  But, he did have to add a lot more players than usual.  Most classes have 2-4 players in it and Buzz has done a nice job adding the 2-4 players one should add.  However, the void left by Crean's departure left a wide open roster.  Buzz had to put together abnormally large recruiting classes.  Now, he does not have to do that and will only likely add 2-4 players/year going forward.  Adding 5 or 6 players is tough to do and has proven to lead to some difficulties.

[Lennys Tap]

In as neutral a way possible, let me ask this question:
What do you believe Buzz was doing as an MU assistant in 2007-08 if he wasn't finding recruits, building relationships, and identifying recruits for future years.

Maybe I'm wrong about the role of an assistant, but my impression is that they are supposed to be the ones out finding recruits, winnowing down those who have talent from those who don't, and making the initial pitch to generate interest.  Wasn't Buzz the guy who went out and found Joe Fulce, Chris Otule and Eric Williams as an assistant? 

Therefore, I find it hard to understand why Buzz had to "scramble" in 2008 when he was hired--no less 2009 or 2010.   Wouldn't he have just reached out to all the players that he was already recruiting for MU?

In other words, I assumed that Buzz was already recruiting Big East quality players for MU on the day he was hired. Is that wrong?

After Buzz took over in April 2008 he added players who would turn out to be his best in both the 2011 (Butler and Buycks) and 2012 (DJO) classes. If you can find another top 40 team who was forced into as bad a position (other than Indiana) and who did as good a job scrambling out of it (certainly not Indiana) please share.

[MUfan12]

Therefore, I find it hard to understand why Buzz had to "scramble" in 2008 when he was hired--no less 2009 or 2010.   Wouldn't he have just reached out to all the players that he was already recruiting for MU?

In other words, I assumed that Buzz was already recruiting Big East quality players for MU on the day he was hired. Is that wrong?

Could be because he had more spots to fill with Williams, Taylor, Christopherson, and later Mbakwe leaving.

You can be working on several guys, but to fill 4 spots in the late spring/summer is difficult.

[Marquette84]

But players play for the head coach, not the assistant.  

But they often have a stronger relationship with the assistant. Look at what happened with Bowen as soon as Dale Layer left.  

Fulce, Willams and Otule stayed with MU becuase of Buzz--not becuase of the HC.  

Fulce committed to Texas A&M because Buzz was there--and when Buzz left, Fulce followed.

Buzz may have recruited Taylor, but Crean was a key in Taylor coming to MU.  The 2008 class was nice, but the two guards which were the centerpiece to the class and would have added depth to the Amigos' team and allowed Buzz to have guards in place to transition from the Amigos era.  I think you can characterize the Hurley stuff and Buzz trying to keep Tyshawn as a scramble to put together a class in 2008.  

But another part of the recruiting job is to be ready for those changes at the end of the season.  

Isn't Buzz's basic philosophy "I'm always recruiting" because one never knows what might happen?

Would he rather have had Tyshawn Taylor?  Sure, who wouldn't?

But that doesn't mean he was sitting on his *ss thinking that his recruiting work was done, only to have to scramble when an opening happened.  


***  I think going from assistant to head coach with no experience did cause Buzz to scramble and lose Tyshawn as you now have to recruit players to an uncertain spot with him coaching rather than Crean with his final four experience.  Losing the two most hyped recruits in the class would definitely force one to scramble.  

I think Buzz knew EXACTLY who he wanted to offer on the day he got the job.

And I don't think it made a bit of difference whether he was head or assistant at that point--if Crean stayed as coach and James decided to test the NBA creating an opening,  I think Buzz would have gone into Crean's office and told him to offer Jimmy Butler.

After Buzz took over in April 2008 he added players who would turn out to be his best in both the 2011 (Butler and Buycks) and 2012 (DJO) classes. If you can find another top 40 team who was forced into as bad a position (other than Indiana) and who did as good a job scrambling out of it (certainly not Indiana) please share.

We're going to disagree on whether MU was in a bad position.  Buzz inherited 4 of MU's top 10 all time leading scorers and had them all for at least one full season before he needed to replace any of them.  

If we compare 2nd seasons, I think Buzz recruited similarly to O'Neill's 2nd season, when he landed Key, McIlvaine, Logtermann and Brakes or Crean's 2nd season when he landed Blankson, Merritt, Sanders & Wade.

Buzz did a good job recruiting for his second class--but its not significantly  better than what Crean or O'Neal did at a similar point in their tenure.  And Buzz had three advantages over O'Neill and Crean--
1.  A year of Head Coaching experience under his belt.
2.  A year on staff at MU as an assistant
3.  Starting with a ranked program--not a team with a losing record.

Please, don't interpret this as a slam on Buzz--he recruited his first full-year class at a level on par with that of O'Neill or Crean.  I think that's very good performance. But let's put it in perspective--its similar to what others in a similar position have done.

[NersEllenson]

But they often have a stronger relationship with the assistant. Look at what happened with Bowen as soon as Dale Layer left.  

If we compare 2nd seasons, I think Buzz recruited similarly to O'Neill's 2nd season, when he landed Key, McIlvaine, Logtermann and Brakes or Crean's 2nd season when he landed Blankson, Merritt, Sanders & Wade.

Many believe the real reason Bowen left was because Jamil Jones was recruited shortly after Bowen verbaled - and Jones was more highly regarded.

The difference between Tom Crean and Buzz Williams was their ability to land back to back very good recruiting classes.  Crean was good at getting 1 good class every 4 years.  Buzz has shown he can land back to back great classes..add in the transfer of Jamil Wilson..and I don't think you will argue that there was never a time in Tom Crean or Kevin O"Neill's tenure that we had a roster with as much talent..top to bottom.  Now if Buzz lands a couple of the highly regarded players we are in on for 2011..there is ZERO comparison that can be made to TC or KO.  Lastly, how is Tom Crean doing at Indiana - seems he has a lot of playing time to offer..but this incoming class was pretty weak?  Why do you think that is?

[Mufflers]

After Buzz took over in April 2008 he added players who would turn out to be his best in both the 2011 (Butler and Buycks) and 2012 (DJO) classes. If you can find another top 40 team who was forced into as bad a position (other than Indiana) and who did as good a job scrambling out of it (certainly not Indiana) please share.

The most impressive turnaround was at Baylor.  Within a decade of one player murdering another player and the coach covering up information, they received a three seed in the NCAA tournament.  How does that situation not kill a program?

[Lennys Tap]

The most impressive turnaround was at Baylor.  Within a decade of one player murdering another player and the coach covering up information, they received a three seed in the NCAA tournament.  How does that situation not kill a program?

Baylor's rise from a never very good program to one on death row to a #3 seed in the NCAA tournament in such a short time is probably unprecedented.

[HoopsMalone]

But they often have a stronger relationship with the assistant. Look at what happened with Bowen as soon as Dale Layer left.  

Fulce, Willams and Otule stayed with MU becuase of Buzz--not becuase of the HC.  

Fulce committed to Texas A&M because Buzz was there--and when Buzz left, Fulce followed.

But another part of the recruiting job is to be ready for those changes at the end of the season.  

Isn't Buzz's basic philosophy "I'm always recruiting" because one never knows what might happen?

Would he rather have had Tyshawn Taylor?  Sure, who wouldn't?

But that doesn't mean he was sitting on his *ss thinking that his recruiting work was done, only to have to scramble when an opening happened.  


***  I think going from assistant to head coach with no experience did cause Buzz to scramble and lose Tyshawn as you now have to recruit players to an uncertain spot with him coaching rather than Crean with his final four experience.  Losing the two most hyped recruits in the class would definitely force one to scramble.  

I think Buzz knew EXACTLY who he wanted to offer on the day he got the job.

And I don't think it made a bit of difference whether he was head or assistant at that point--if Crean stayed as coach and James decided to test the NBA creating an opening,  I think Buzz would have gone into Crean's office and told him to offer Jimmy Butler.


We're going to disagree on whether MU was in a bad position.  Buzz inherited 4 of MU's top 10 all time leading scorers and had them all for at least one full season before he needed to replace any of them.  

If we compare 2nd seasons, I think Buzz recruited similarly to O'Neill's 2nd season, when he landed Key, McIlvaine, Logtermann and Brakes or Crean's 2nd season when he landed Blankson, Merritt, Sanders & Wade.

Buzz did a good job recruiting for his second class--but its not significantly  better than what Crean or O'Neal did at a similar point in their tenure.  And Buzz had three advantages over O'Neill and Crean--
1.  A year of Head Coaching experience under his belt.
2.  A year on staff at MU as an assistant
3.  Starting with a ranked program--not a team with a losing record.

Please, don't interpret this as a slam on Buzz--he recruited his first full-year class at a level on par with that of O'Neill or Crean.  I think that's very good performance. But let's put it in perspective--its similar to what others in a similar position have done.

I think Buzz did one heck of a job in 2008 on short notice.  And yes, he did not get the job and hit rivals to see who is available. he obviously knew.  But there was definitely adversity, that is all I was saying.  I am glad he had strong enough relations with Fulce and Otule, but wish Taylor would have worked out.  It would be great to have built a post amigos team with him rather than having the short bench Buzz had last year. 

The 7 man rotation Buzz basically had his first two seasons was adversity due to the coaching change.  He handled it very, very well in my opinion.

[Benny B]

I think Buzz knew EXACTLY who he wanted to offer on the day he got the job.

And I don't think it made a bit of difference whether he was head or assistant at that point--if Crean stayed as coach and James decided to test the NBA creating an opening,  I think Buzz would have gone into Crean's office and told him to offer Jimmy Butler.


We're going to disagree on whether MU was in a bad position.  Buzz inherited 4 of MU's top 10 all time leading scorers and had them all for at least one full season before he needed to replace any of them.  

I don't think you can dismiss that Buzz did indeed scramble in Spring 2008.

"Scrambling" does not denote that you're in a "bad" position.  You can be in a good situation, yet still in a scramble.  Further, you can scramble, and still have success.

Further, just because you know what your plan is on Day 1, doesn't mean that anything you do thereafter cannot be considered a scramble regardless of the circumstances.  Any time a plan changes (or you're given a less-than-usual time frame to accomplish a given task), a scramble takes place -- unless you already knew things were going to change.

Is Buzz prepared?  Yes.
Is Buzz clairvoyant?  No.  (But let's hope he is.)