In Demand: Duke, UNC, others want Wisconsin player

[ChicosBailBonds]

Okay Chicos...do they get a bailout if they run MU into the ground?  Get a clue.  While some in the "business world" still seem to have ethics (and humility), I'm not interested in playing that card with these kids.  They understand the business world all to well as they watch many make millions off of their play while they recieve a tiny fraction of that $$$.  I think they get the business world...right now, it seems to be screw someone over or get screwed over.  I'm not sure scholarships are a 1 year renewable offer to promote kicking kids out of school who aren't "hitting the numbers" on the court.  Not sure how that plays with the Jesuit beliefs either.

Bailout?  I was talking about people in positions in the business world.  Happens all the time, especially in sales and marketing where if you don't hit certain goals or caps, then they push you out.  Not sure why you went to the bailout (which I abhor, by the way).

I'm not wild about the practice either, I'm simply saying that it's the way of the world these days.  No different than Buzz telling Roseboro he'd be better off somewhere else.  This seems to happen at an alarming level at many schools now with the pressure to win so high.  Just look at the number of transfers every year.

Incidentally, I believe the Jesuits also adhere to the notion that people should use their talents (not let them go to waste) and the folks need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps from time to time as well.

[avid1010]

Bailout?  I was talking about people in positions in the business world.  Happens all the time, especially in sales and marketing where if you don't hit certain goals or caps, then they push you out.  Not sure why you went to the bailout (which I abhor, by the way).

So was I.  I know plenty, and many I consider friends, who reached their sales goals in a unethical manner that put the US economy at risk.  Their companies were bailed out.  I'm just not interested in acting like these kids are part of a "business" unless they're getting compensated fairly for the profits they are generating for their "business."  They're ever move in scrutinized much greater than most business positions, and they're compensation is much more unfair.

I'm not wild about the practice either, I'm simply saying that it's the way of the world these days.  No different than Buzz telling Roseboro he'd be better off somewhere else.  This seems to happen at an alarming level at many schools now with the pressure to win so high.  Just look at the number of transfers every year.

I don't pretend to know the exact reasons that Roseboro left/was asked to leave, but I think Buzz evaluates his players on more than points, rebounds, assists, etc.  I also think there are more variables involved in increasing transfer rates than just schools feeling the pressure to win.  A major one being every kid thinking he should be the go to player and an NBA lottery pick.

Incidentally, I believe the Jesuits also adhere to the notion that people should use their talents (not let them go to waste) and the folks need to pull themselves up by the bootstraps from time to time as well.

I feel the same way, but it's very dangerous when people use religion to rationalize unethical actions.  If you promise a kid an education and spot on the team IF HE WORKS HARD, and the kid does everything asked of him but it doesn't translate to production on the court, I don't think the kid should be asked to leave because he didn't "hit his numbers" on the court.  That's not why scholarships are offered one year at a time. 

When risk is matched with reward, then you can start axing kids for lack of production. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

So was I.  I know plenty, and many I consider friends, who reached their sales goals in a unethical manner that put the US economy at risk.  Their companies were bailed out.  I'm just not interested in acting like these kids are part of a "business" unless they're getting compensated fairly for the profits they are generating for their "business."  They're ever move in scrutinized much greater than most business positions, and they're compensation is much more unfair.

I don't pretend to know the exact reasons that Roseboro left/was asked to leave, but I think Buzz evaluates his players on more than points, rebounds, assists, etc.  I also think there are more variables involved in increasing transfer rates than just schools feeling the pressure to win.  A major one being every kid thinking he should be the go to player and an NBA lottery pick.

I feel the same way, but it's very dangerous when people use religion to rationalize unethical actions.  If you promise a kid an education and spot on the team IF HE WORKS HARD, and the kid does everything asked of him but it doesn't translate to production on the court, I don't think the kid should be asked to leave because he didn't "hit his numbers" on the court.  That's not why scholarships are offered one year at a time. 

When risk is matched with reward, then you can start axing kids for lack of production. 

I think you and I have a lot more that we agree with then we disagree with.  My only disagreement is your first paragraph that this isn't a business.  It most certainly is and they are being compensated for it.  If they don't like the payment, they can play somewhere else, but it is a business.

Happy Fathers Day

[goodgreatgrand]

J.P. Tokoto came into the Top 100 Camp rated as the fourth-best player in the high school class of 2011, according to the Scout.com recruiting service. Friday found him perplexed and uneasy. Not scoring in the first three games of a high-profile camp for top prospects can do that to a player.

"I've never dealt with this before," Tokoto said after shooting blanks in Friday's first session. "It's kind of new, and I haven't handled it too well."

Tokoto, a 6-foot-6 wing from Menomonee Falls, Wis., was one of only three players in the camp who had not scored a point.

http://www.kentucky.com/2010/06/19/1313344/uk-notes-scoreless-recruit-hopes.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

J.P. Tokoto came into the Top 100 Camp rated as the fourth-best player in the high school class of 2011, according to the Scout.com recruiting service. Friday found him perplexed and uneasy. Not scoring in the first three games of a high-profile camp for top prospects can do that to a player.

"I've never dealt with this before," Tokoto said after shooting blanks in Friday's first session. "It's kind of new, and I haven't handled it too well."

Tokoto, a 6-foot-6 wing from Menomonee Falls, Wis., was one of only three players in the camp who had not scored a point.

http://www.kentucky.com/2010/06/19/1313344/uk-notes-scoreless-recruit-hopes.html

He's got an extra level of expectations now, a target on his back, and is going up against players of much higher caliber than Menomonee Falls or even SE Wisconsin.

[4everwarriors]

His skill level is there. Doesn't have to take a backseat to anyone on the floor. Trust the  Hall of Fame coaches who have made a beeline for Menomonee Falls. So much of the game is mental, though. Once he gains his confidence and has success vs. other elite players, I'm figuring Tokota swims with all the other fishes.

[Marquette84]

If you promise a kid an education and spot on the team IF HE WORKS HARD, and the kid does everything asked of him but it doesn't translate to production on the court, I don't think the kid should be asked to leave because he didn't "hit his numbers" on the court.  That's not why scholarships are offered one year at a time. 

Sorry, but that's EXACTLY why scholarships are one-year renewable.

Its a nice quaint argument that hard work and determination are all you need--results be damned.   It might even be true for NAIA or D3 teams.

However, when the high-major D1 coach is making 7 figures, hard work by the players isn't going to be enough.  The coach has to win, and if a player isn't able to help accomplish that goal, the coach will find different players.

And don't feel bad for the kids, either--they know exactly what they're getting into at this level.

Sorry if that upsets the sensibilities of some, but its been that way for the Dukes and UNCs and Kansas' of the world.  Players come in, and if they don't contribute they transfer.  Coach K didn't get where he is today because he was willing to live with his recruiting misses for 4 years.  And high-major D1 isn't a league where everyone gets a medal simply for trying hard.

[bma725]

His skill level is there. Doesn't have to take a backseat to anyone on the floor. Trust the  Hall of Fame coaches who have made a beeline for Menomonee Falls. So much of the game is mental, though. Once he gains his confidence and has success vs. other elite players, I'm figuring Tokota swims with all the other fishes.

His athletic ability is there.  His ball handling is there.  His defense is there.  His shooting isn't there yet.  His form isn't exactly what you want, and he needs to put in some work to improve that.  This isn't the first time he's had problems scoring, and it's not just in games against elite talent.  He's put up some bad shooting performances against AAU teams, and in his high school season.

[4everwarriors]

You know what? I'd take my chances with him on our team.

[avid1010]

Sorry if that upsets the sensibilities of some, but its been that way for the Dukes and UNCs and Kansas' of the world.  Players come in, and if they don't contribute they transfer.  Coach K didn't get where he is today because he was willing to live with his recruiting misses for 4 years.  And high-major D1 isn't a league where everyone gets a medal simply for trying hard.

Those teams/coaches you mentioned didn't get to where they are today by kicking kids out after one unproductive year either.

[bma725]

You know what? I'd take my chances with him on our team.

Three years ago this month people were saying the exact same thing about Jamil Wilson after his poor performance at the USA Youth Basketball Camp.  He had MU, UW, UNC, Kansas, Michigan State, Duke etc all after him.  The sky was the limit.....until it turned out he didn't develop into the player people thought he would be.  Not saying Tokoto will turn out the same way, but there are some holes in his game he needs to work on.

[4everwarriors]

Wilson has all the physical tools also. But, anyone who's ever seen him play will tell you he often exerts only half effort. Tokota has never been accused of being lazy. I'm certain he'll correct any "holes" in his game. Like I said, I'll take my chances.

[ChicosBailBonds]

His athletic ability is there.  His ball handling is there.  His defense is there.  His shooting isn't there yet.  His form isn't exactly what you want, and he needs to put in some work to improve that.  This isn't the first time he's had problems scoring, and it's not just in games against elite talent.  He's put up some bad shooting performances against AAU teams, and in his high school season.

From what I've read, tremendous athlete but not necessarily a tremendous basketball player.  At least not yet.  I'm sure he'll make significantstrides.   Dominic was a great athlete, but not a good shooter.  Rondo seems to be that way in the VERY limited NBA that I watch (which is next to nothing...though I did go to game 6 and his shooting was pretty bad if I recall).