Syria = Impending S-Show

[JWags85]

I don't think many critics of Israel here - or in the West in general - argue that Hamas is good, moral or protective leaders of their people. 

"Hamas is bad, too" is little more than a deflection of the legitimate denunciation of Israel's actions here. Especially since we ought to be holding Israel to a higher standard than we would a terrorist organization.

I was purely replying to Jesu questioning if Hamas was shooting Palestinians. And it's not a deflection of "both sides are bad" but more a response to this continued idea of see of any time shots are fired in the area of civilians, it's automatically attributed to IDF cause "who else would be shooting" as if Hamas hasn't fired upon Palestinians countless times.

And while I think the "just release the hostages" knee jerk mantra is a bit tired and reductive, it also sort of muddles the very real fact that while Hamas may be defanged in terms of counter attacking Tel Aviv, they are still actively and violently sabotaging the lives of Gazans in unison with Israel, and giving Israel defenders plausible deniability for aggression. 

Honestly if Israel pulled back for 2 weeks and let the powers that be in Gaza, aka Hamas, deal with aid and the ongoing situation, it would be illuminating to some of that.  But the Likud lunatics would never allow it and the PR battle lines are probably too deeply dug at this point

[Scoop Snoop]

Where do you start the timeline in something that has been going on for countless decades?

Israel is our ally, they are on the side of good. If you are not our ally, you are on the side of bad.

Gazans, Palestinians, etc., would argue that their actions were in self defense.

That is the problem in these types of things, they are way more complex than many will admit. I just address the complexity of things.

Forgetful, please pardon my editing. It was a great post as it was, but I'm just trying to focus on a couple of your points.

I think that the proudly historically ignorant have become the majority today. When historical background is brought up in discussions it is not only ignored but often ridiculed. The "here and now" take today has become preferable, but maybe I am just being nostalgic, as this may have been the case all along. I expect this from uneducated people but like to think that a Marquette grad would be above this.

[Uncle Rico]

Forgetful, please pardon my editing. It was a great post as it was, but I'm just trying to focus on a couple of your points.

I think that the proudly historically ignorant have become the majority today. When historical background is brought up in discussions it is not only ignored but often ridiculed. The "here and now" take today has become preferable, but maybe I am just being nostalgic, as this may have been the case all along. I expect this from uneducated people but like to think that a Marquette grad would be above this.

Muggsy doesn't do complex or nuance.  Just attack and let god sort them out

[BM1090]

The IDF is not open firing on children in Gaza.  Maybe there have been evil individuals that have within the IDF, but that's not there policy.  Hamas wants dead children.  They build the headquarters and tunnels under hospitals abd schools.  Hamas via Iran is primarily responsible for this hell hole situation.

This is true if you ignore literally every single person that has been worked on the ground in Gaza.

[Scoop Snoop]

IF  If the Jewish population were to leave, and we set up a state/territory for them in the USA, Let's give them New Jersey. They would gain about 1/3 more square miles and territory without a desert. what exactly do you think would happen to that land or the Middle East as a whole?  Would it be gumdrop smiles?  Rivers of chocolate? What? Gumdrop smiles? Rivers of chocolate? Even for you, this is really weird.