Crean vs Buzz vs Wojo vs Shaka

[brewcity77]

Ners, the smartest thing you did in this discussion was exiting it. Are you just that desperate for a new stupid losing argument to support?

[Elonsmusk]

Ners, the smartest thing you did in this discussion was exiting it. Are you just that desperate for a new stupid losing argument to support?

Not nearly as much as you are.  I do applaud you though for after 5 years incessant of Pro-joing, you finally did come around and support the winning argument I'd made 10 games into Wojo.  Try to learn to let something go.  Take your L and carry on to your next dumb argument, like how much the MU Athletic department marketing department sucks. 

[The Sultan]

Ners, the second year cupboard was not "EMPTY." That's just a basic fact.

[brewcity77]

Not nearly as much as you are.  I do applaud you though for after 5 years incessant of Pro-joing, you finally did come around and support the winning argument I'd made 10 games into Wojo.  Try to learn to let something go.  Take your L and carry on to your next dumb argument, like how much the MU Athletic department marketing department sucks.

Aside from the simple reality that how empty the cupboard is in the second year being an idiotic debate, it's not true.

Lazar Hayward, a top-10 scorer in program history, was still there.

Two rotation guards, Acker and Cubillian, were still there.

Scott Christopherson was already there, but was encouraged by Buzz to leave.

Incoming players Chris Otule and Joe Fulce were already committed.

Incoming freshmen Nick Williams and Tyshawn Taylor were committed, but were not retained.

2009 freshman Erik Williams was already committed.

So 9/13 scholarships were filled for the second year when Crean left. Buzz would go on to add DJO, Buycks, Butler, Cadougan, Maymon, and Mbao, while running off Christopherson and losing Williams and Taylor. Having 15 months to fill 4 scholarships is hardly an empty cupboard. It just isn't.

The only reason anyone could argue the cupboard was bare is because Buzz either tried to run off or couldn't retain 5/9 players who were expected to be on scholarship for 2009-10. Which is an absolutely crazy bonkers wild thing to blame on Crean.

I'm not saying anyone has to like Crean, I'm not saying Buzz didn't do a fantastic coaching job that year. But calling the cupboard bare for year two is both a dumb thing to try to argue and also an outright fiction.

[Tyler COLEk]

Elonsmusk = Drake

[brewcity77]

If Shaka retired today and handed the job to DeAndre Haynes, he would start with 12/13 scholarships filled for his first year and 9/13 filled for his second year. Would we be sitting here in 15 years talking about how Haynes was left with an empty cupboard for year two?

[Galway Eagle]

Aside from the simple reality that how empty the cupboard is in the second year being an idiotic debate, it's not true.

Lazar Hayward, a top-10 scorer in program history, was still there.

Two rotation guards, Acker and Cubillian, were still there.

Scott Christopherson was already there, but was encouraged by Buzz to leave.

Incoming players Chris Otule and Joe Fulce were already committed.

Incoming freshmen Nick Williams and Tyshawn Taylor were committed, but were not retained.

2009 freshman Erik Williams was already committed.

So 9/13 scholarships were filled for the second year when Crean left. Buzz would go on to add DJO, Buycks, Butler, Cadougan, Maymon, and Mbao, while running off Christopherson and losing Williams and Taylor. Having 15 months to fill 4 scholarships is hardly an empty cupboard. It just isn't.

The only reason anyone could argue the cupboard was bare is because Buzz either tried to run off or couldn't retain 5/9 players who were expected to be on scholarship for 2009-10. Which is an absolutely crazy bonkers wild thing to blame on Crean.

I'm not saying anyone has to like Crean, I'm not saying Buzz didn't do a fantastic coaching job that year. But calling the cupboard bare for year two is both a dumb thing to try to argue and also an outright fiction.

Gonna nit pick here that it seems more than fair to at least blame Nick Williams  on Crean. Arguably Taylor ans Taylor didn't commit to buzz, some players commit to assistants, some to head coaches, some to schools Taylor didn't commit to buzz.

Here's what I want to know, if 9/13 scholarships being filled is the barometer for full cupboards then was Wojo's cupboard full when he arrived as well? Because 8/13 seems full if we arent talking quality of player and yet an awful lot of time has been devoted to saying it wasn't full to people who expected more in 2015.

[The Lens]

There was some crazy Luke Winn tweet that went something like:

"Wojo had more RSCI top 100 players on his roster (9) than the rest of the Big East combined"

[Galway Eagle]

There was some crazy Luke Winn tweet that went something like:

"Wojo had more RSCI top 100 players on his roster (9) than the rest of the Big East combined"

I remember that, wild stat though I thought it was the next year? But the point I was trying to get at was that bringing it up was while I agree with Brew that acker and cubillian were much much better than Lenny's making them out to be (and it wasn't just from a miracle of buzz's coaching) I'm not sure that the number of scholarships filled let alone recruits committed at time of coaching transition is the best proof for it.

[Uncle Rico]

I was the first to call for Shaka to be fired

[MU82]

I was the first to call for Shaka to be fired

Farley said Shaka should be canned after the 2022 NCAA tourney loss. He also said he was officially "done" with Marquette basketball forever.

And unlike you, he actually was serious.

[tower912]

Farley is misunderstood.

[Uncle Rico]

Farley said Shaka should be canned after the 2022 NCAA tourney loss. He also said he was officially "done" with Marquette basketball forever.

And unlike you, he actually was serious.

I said the day he got hired he should be fired and I was right

[MU82]

I said the day he got hired he should be fired and I was right

It's hard to argue with this. He didn't deliver a national title that day, so I was right there with you.