Is Marquette "Culturally Insensitive?"

[MU82]

What people? So some people who go to Washington and see the MLK memorial as a statue of a plagiarist and womanizer who really wanted to judge people by the color of their skin and not the content of their character as his famous quote to the contrary is intentionally omitted. So that statue has to go because some people see it as a symbol differently than what was intended.

Yes, for centuries now, the white man hasn't been able to catch a break in America. Such victims we have been.

[dgies9156]

I'm thinking about the Columbus statues that the city removed (without damage) last October to bring down the boil over the protests that were trying to tear them down.

Oh C'mon, the statue came down because the mob was outside the Mayor's home disturbing her rest.

Morale of story -- Make noise around the Mayor's house, get what you want!!!!

[muwarrior69]

On the one hand you have people who realize/acknowledge that words and imagery have been used for decades and centuries by the majority to convey negative (even dehumanizing) messages about minority groups and realize it's not the right thing to perpetuate. This doesn't even touch on the fact that there are laws in place and being proposed today that further target these groups as well as elected officials publicly marginalizing them.

On the other hand we have a white guy that's threatened by the single (and stupid) act of a principal in NY.

To say that is a 'false equivalence' is putting it mildly

That principal is molding the minds of those he is supposedly educating and those definitions of whiteness are written by a black professor at Northwestern supposedly teaching young college students how racist our society is. So it is not a single act especially if our children are being taught that being white is at the root of all racism. So bringing up negative images of white people in our schools and colleges is the right thing to do, will solve the race problem, and bring us together. I think not; and who is dehumanizing whom?

[muwarrior69]

I'm not sure womanizing and plagiarism on a doctoral thesis are quite on par with treason, slavery and genocide, but perhaps our moral codes differ.

The Moores enslaved the slavs, my people, centuries ago. Can you say the same? But that was a long time ago so it does not count. I get it.

[Pakuni]

The Moores enslaved the slavs, my people, centuries ago. Can you say the same? But that was a long time ago so it does not count. I get it.

Dudley or Mary Tyler?

I'm not aware of any Moors being honored with statues in Prague or  Slovakian military bases named after Moor leaders. Are you?

[naginiF]

That principal is molding the minds of those he is supposedly educating and those definitions of whiteness are written by a black professor at Northwestern supposedly teaching young college students how racist our society is. So it is not a single act especially if our children are being taught that being white is at the root of all racism. So bringing up negative images of white people in our schools and colleges is the right thing to do, will solve the race problem, and bring us together. I think not; and who is dehumanizing whom?

Maybe we should level set. We agree that any imagery, language, and especially law that marginalizes or degrades a person or people based on their color, ethnicity, sex, age, sexual orientation/identification or religious beliefs should be called out or stricken. Right?

That gets us down to quibbling over either a) which of acts we should focus on eradicating from society first and b) which group of people is hurt most by existing acts/laws.

[Galway Eagle]

Dudley or Mary Tyler?

I'm not aware of any Moors being honored with statues in Prague or  Slovakian military bases named after Moor leaders. Are you?

He said Slavs which is pretty broad, by my count that's pretty much most of Eastern Europe... a lot of countries have their own blood on their hands.

[dgies9156]

When evaluating what to do about older public monuments, there are three categories of monument, from worst to best:

WTF -- As in, who on earth would ever really make a monument to this person? Nathan Bedford Forrest's statue in the State Capitol in Nashville qualifies. Why would anyone honor the founder of the Klu Klux Klan? Monuments to people like J. Edgar Hoover, Donald Trump, any Confederate army officer, Richard Nixon, John Wayne Gacy, William Calley etc., would tend to inflame. The WTF category falls into a universally disgusting person or a person who on reflection should be buried, not memorialized. Realistically, we rarely do public monuments to WTF characters. We should also be looking at flags, building names, highway and street names etc., and try to get WTF people off our public recognitions. Hint: Florida, you need to get the Confederate Naval Battle Flag out of your state flag!

Eeh -- Many of our monuments probably are Eehs. As in, on reflection we understand why these people were recognized but we really probably wouldn't do it over if we could. Steven Douglas' monument and grave on the south side of Chicago qualifies. So does naming an airport after some dude named Butch O'Hare. Christopher Columbus, given he wasn't the first European to walk on North American shores, also probably qualifies. Naming freeways in Chicago after Dan Ryan, William Edens and Bishop Ford also probably qualify. Or Buford Ellington in Tennessee (find me 10 living Tennesseans who know who Buford was or 10 living Illinoisans who know who either Bishop Ford or William Edens were and I'd tell you that you found 10 geeks). Bottom line is we have way too many monuments to people who really were nothing more than a local, period hero. They probably were great people but to perpetually memorialize them is a bit much. Many also may have character flaws that upon examination make them less than ideal for a monument.

I Get It -- Memorializing George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, John Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jackie Robinson and even Barack Obama qualifies as we clearly "get it." These are people that, however flawed, played such a significant role in the founding or advancement of our country that we would not be the same place without them. If a public monuments commission goes after these folks, there clearly is something wrong or these folks have a distorted view of history. Father Marquette falls into this group. He was a significant early explorer in the Midwest and his impact on Wisconsin, Illinois and the surrounding region was extensive. He paved the way for the eventual settlement and development of the region we call "home." Maybe he's responsible for Illinois $150 billion public pension shortfall! He started it. LOL

The point is that in reviewing monuments and naming conventions you have to ask two things -- first why did the folks that built or approved the memorial choose remember the person? Second, have we learned anything about the person since the time of the memorialization that would cause us to basically say, "WTF???" On the second point, it's why many since 1971 have questioned honoring J. Edgar Hoover by naming the FBI headquarters after him. The man likely was a crook, even by standards of the time.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

The Moores enslaved the slavs, my people, centuries ago. Can you say the same? But that was a long time ago so it does not count. I get it.

The Moofs as per the Seinfeld Bubble Boy episode?

[ATL MU Warrior]

The Moofs as per the Seinfeld Bubble Boy episode?

Moops

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Moops

Damn, you're right!

[Galway Eagle]

The Moores enslaved the slavs, my people, centuries ago. Can you say the same? But that was a long time ago so it does not count. I get it.

Um I'm thinking it's a bit different when great grandpa was a slave vs when you're going 20+ generations back...

[MU82]

Monuments to people like J. Edgar Hoover, Donald Trump, any Confederate army officer, Richard Nixon, John Wayne Gacy, William Calley etc., would tend to inflame.

Um ... a golden idol has been set up at CPAC for this weekend. Of course, after spending 5 years bowing to this false god, it shouldn't surprise anybody.

https://twitter.com/WilliamTurton/status/1365109969490567169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1365140311920562183%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Fdonald-trump-gold-statue-cpac_n_6038eac7c5b60f03d9b3dec5

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Um ... a golden idol has been set up at CPAC for this weekend. Of course, after spending 5 years bowing to this false god, it shouldn't surprise anybody.

https://twitter.com/WilliamTurton/status/1365109969490567169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1365140311920562183%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Fdonald-trump-gold-statue-cpac_n_6038eac7c5b60f03d9b3dec5

That's a flag code violation

[MU82]

That's a flag code violation

True, though not as big a violation as when the Capitol terrorists used a flagpole (with American flag attached) to beat a cop.

But at least they didn't take a knee. That would have been disrespectful to the flag, police, veterans and apple pie.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

The Moores enslaved the slavs, my people, centuries ago. Can you say the same? But that was a long time ago so it does not count. I get it.

actually Slav meant slave. Foe centuries the Vikings raided eastern europe for slaves that they sold in N. Africa among other places. about a week ago Ancient Origins had an aricle about the history of mankind and slavery. The Ottoman empire was engaged in raiding and taking slaves from everywhere in Europe.  In the 1600s the Barbary pirates raided and took captive an entire Irish town. Men, women and children were transported to N. african slave markets. They also engaged in piracy and captured and enslaved Europen ships for centuries until the U. S. sent the marines to Tripoli. jefferson refused to pay the ransom demanded.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

In the 1600s the Barbary pirates raided and took captive an entire Irish town. Men, women and children were transported to N. african slave markets. They also engaged in piracy and captured and enslaved Europen ships for centuries until the U. S. sent the marines to Tripoli. jefferson refused to pay the ransom demanded.

Never knew the backyard of the story.
This would make a good movie or mini-series on one the streaming platforms.

[JWags85]

Never knew the backyard of the story.
This would make a good movie or mini-series on one the streaming platforms.

It's pretty crazy. However, Baltimore was a relatively young settlement at the time and the majority of the population was involved in pirating in one way or another. It's not like Barbary pirates randomly sacked a town out of nowhere