Rank the Big East Coaches

[Cheeks]

Wright showed his coaching chops at a low major D1 program and quickly took Villanova to national prominence.  Hardly a trajectory to what is unfolding here, nor a background to prove patience has been earned already.

And then struggled in the NCAA tournament for a number of years with howls from their fans to fire him for daring not to deliver to them that for which they were entitled.

[brewcity77]

And then struggled in the NCAA tournament for a number of years with howls from their fans to fire him for daring not to deliver to them that for which they were entitled.

Everyone seems to forget there were calls to fire Wright in 2004 after three seasons with no NCAA appearances & before his first Sweet 16.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/how-villanovas-coach-went-from-nearly-fired-to-a-second-final-four/

Or that there were fan & media calls for him to be fired in 2011 after they lost 5 straight before a first round tourney exit.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/630868-big-east-tournament-is-this-the-end-for-villanova-and-coach-jay-wright

I'll be honest, I hate the Wright comparisons because as Parrish writes, most coaches that end up on the hot seat get there because they will ultimately be fired. Wright is a great coach. One of the best in the country. But he wasn't after 5 years. He wasn't after 10 years. He wasn't when he had a 13-19 record in his 18th season as a head coach.

But now? Yes.

So does Wojo deserve that kind of leash? Do we move the goalposts to 15-20 years to judge? I'd say of course not. But there have been improvements. The results from this year, regardless of the Hindenburg landing, were better than any of the years before. What frustrates me is I thought this would be the year where we determine that either "Wojo is definitely the guy" or "Wojo is definitely not the guy" and instead as the season ends, we're still not sure.

I don't want to give Wojo more time because I think he gets a bye on this year. I want to give him more time because I do still feel there's an upward trajectory to the program. Next year should be better than this. And even when Sam & Markus leave, there are potentially (always a dangerous word) foundational pieces like Joey, Brendan, & Torrence waiting in the wings. Players have definitely improved in their time here. Not just obvious guys like Markus, but Sacar, Theo, and Jajuan showed growth. There have been problems with the roster assembly, but we've moved away from having two small guards to seeing a future with guards like McEwen, Akanno, & Torrence with more length & athleticism. We have moved away from softer, less assertive centers to guys that are rugged enforcers.

Wojo's learning on the job, and the waiting sucks. I hate the feeling that today I feel like I don't really know any more about how he will pan out as a coach than I did a year ago. But as I get older, the idea of starting over again & asking the same questions about someone else for 5 or 10 years before we have any real idea is even more frustrating. Anyway...here's my rankings:

1) Jay Wright, obviously. Huge dropoff after him.
2) Ed Cooley, he hasn't broken through at the NCAA level, but seems to be a good game-planner & gets the most out of his guys.
3) Kevin Willard, his coaching job this year was really impressive. Starting to show he might not be a one-class coach.
4) Steve Wojciechowski, I can see the blueprint, taking longer than I hoped, but at least has a clue on both ends.
5) Doug McDermott, recruits well enough, gameplans well enough, but has been treading water a long time.
6) Dave Leitao, I can see what he's doing, and it's actually not terrible. He's done more in the past than anyone lower on this list.
7) Patrick Ewing, good talent evaluator, not there yet as a game coach. Feels like Wojo a few years ago.
8) Travis Steele, largely incomplete, but putting together a mix of veterans & young guys with talent.
9) Lavall Jordan, did well with Holtmann's guys, but hard to see the future trajectory.
10) Chris Mullin, he has our number, but that's about it. Faceplanted hard in March.

[Eldon]

I saw that SJUs AD was going to "sit down and have a talk" with Mullin. The gist was that the Johnnies are likely gonna be in the market for a new assistant.

[MUBurrow]

Everyone seems to forget there were calls to fire Wright in 2004 after three seasons with no NCAA appearances & before his first Sweet 16.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/how-villanovas-coach-went-from-nearly-fired-to-a-second-final-four/

Or that there were fan & media calls for him to be fired in 2011 after they lost 5 straight before a first round tourney exit.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/630868-big-east-tournament-is-this-the-end-for-villanova-and-coach-jay-wright

I'll be honest, I hate the Wright comparisons because as Parrish writes, most coaches that end up on the hot seat get there because they will ultimately be fired. Wright is a great coach. One of the best in the country. But he wasn't after 5 years. He wasn't after 10 years. He wasn't when he had a 13-19 record in his 18th season as a head coach.

But now? Yes.

So does Wojo deserve that kind of leash? Do we move the goalposts to 15-20 years to judge? I'd say of course not. But there have been improvements. The results from this year, regardless of the Hindenburg landing, were better than any of the years before. What frustrates me is I thought this would be the year where we determine that either "Wojo is definitely the guy" or "Wojo is definitely not the guy" and instead as the season ends, we're still not sure.

Frustrating because it doesn't just solve all questions, sure. But very little is ever that unambiguous. And I just can't understand the impatience on this board with Wojo (not you brew) despite this great comparison right in our conference backyard.  Wright took the Nova job at age 39 with 7 years of head coaching experience at Hofstra. Before that he was an assistant for Massimino for 7 years at Nova and UNLV.  Wojo took the MU job at age 37 after 5 years as an assistant to Coach K. Nova and MU are not particularly dissimilar programs.

I'm not saying that I'm sure Wojo is the next Jay Wright and that by 2030 MU will have two more national championships. But the patterns are so similar that it puts the burden of persuasion on the side trying to convince me that anything similar is unlikely to happen. Factor in that Wojo didn't even have the experience of being the head man that Wright did at Hofstra, and the accelerated results of Wojo's first 4 years vs Wright's, and there's even more reason to be bullish.

When you hire a guy who has never had a head gig and hasn't seen his 40th birthday, you are committing to growth and development as much as (if not more than) immediate results.  We can have the debate whether MU's program should be above having to do that (I don't think it is, others here do). But that's where we are.

[MU82]

brew and Burrow:

As an optimist, a pragmatist, a patient guy, a Marquette alum and a 40+ year Warriors fan who believes Wojo has the program going in the right direction, I agree with and appreciate your thorough, thought-provoking analyses.

[Cheeks]

Everyone seems to forget there were calls to fire Wright in 2004 after three seasons with no NCAA appearances & before his first Sweet 16.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/how-villanovas-coach-went-from-nearly-fired-to-a-second-final-four/

Or that there were fan & media calls for him to be fired in 2011 after they lost 5 straight before a first round tourney exit.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/630868-big-east-tournament-is-this-the-end-for-villanova-and-coach-jay-wright

Oh I remember it well.  Patience is not a strong suit with sports fans, especially MU fans or anyone that tasted success at one point because the demand is to get it again and again.

[NickelDimer]

I'm a pitbull, a grinder, it's what I'm paid to do.  Battle, battle, battle.  Of course in real life I am sweet, and do it with honey rather than vinegar.

That’s cool I can dig that. But where does having the humility to admit you’re wrong on occasion fit in?

[Silent Verbal]

Frustrating because it doesn't just solve all questions, sure. But very little is ever that unambiguous. And I just can't understand the impatience on this board with Wojo (not you brew) despite this great comparison right in our conference backyard.  Wright took the Nova job at age 39 with 7 years of head coaching experience at Hofstra. Before that he was an assistant for Massimino for 7 years at Nova and UNLV.  Wojo took the MU job at age 37 after 5 years as an assistant to Coach K. Nova and MU are not particularly dissimilar programs.

I'm not saying that I'm sure Wojo is the next Jay Wright and that by 2030 MU will have two more national championships. But the patterns are so similar that it puts the burden of persuasion on the side trying to convince me that anything similar is unlikely to happen. Factor in that Wojo didn't even have the experience of being the head man that Wright did at Hofstra, and the accelerated results of Wojo's first 4 years vs Wright's, and there's even more reason to be bullish.

When you hire a guy who has never had a head gig and hasn't seen his 40th birthday, you are committing to growth and development as much as (if not more than) immediate results.  We can have the debate whether MU's program should be above having to do that (I don't think it is, others here do). But that's where we are.

Here we go again.  Wojo is greater than or equal to Wright.

[MU82]

Here we go again.  Wojo is greater than or equal to Wright.

Here we go again. Not at all what Burrow said.

He said the situations are similar. The future will decide if Wojo is greater than or equal to Wright.

[Cheeks]

That’s cool I can dig that. But where does having the humility to admit you’re wrong on occasion fit in?

I've admitted it many times here, in fact did so again twice today and yesterday.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58190.msg1115459#msg1115459

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58490.msg1115671#msg1115671

How about same question back to you....does it occasionally fit in? 

[NickelDimer]

I've admitted it many times here, in fact did so again twice today and yesterday.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58190.msg1115459#msg1115459

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58490.msg1115671#msg1115671

How about same question back to you....does it occasionally fit in?

I’m wrong often. Ask my wife

[Cheeks]

I’m wrong often. Ask my wife

She did say that about you.   

[DFW HOYA]

Anyway...here's my rankings:
1) Jay Wright, obviously. Huge dropoff after him.
2) Ed Cooley, he hasn't broken through at the NCAA level, but seems to be a good game-planner & gets the most out of his guys.
3) Kevin Willard, his coaching job this year was really impressive. Starting to show he might not be a one-class coach.
4) Steve Wojciechowski, I can see the blueprint, taking longer than I hoped, but at least has a clue on both ends.
5) Doug McDermott, recruits well enough, gameplans well enough, but has been treading water a long time.
6) Dave Leitao, I can see what he's doing, and it's actually not terrible. He's done more in the past than anyone lower on this list.
7) Patrick Ewing, good talent evaluator, not there yet as a game coach. Feels like Wojo a few years ago.
8) Travis Steele, largely incomplete, but putting together a mix of veterans & young guys with talent.
9) Lavall Jordan, did well with Holtmann's guys, but hard to see the future trajectory.
10) Chris Mullin, he has our number, but that's about it. Faceplanted hard in March.

Good arguments here.  Here's my list:

1.  Jay Wright. Case closed.
2.  Ed Cooley: Does more with less than any other BE program not named "DePaul".
3.  Kevin Willard: Remarkable work this year given the loss of 80% of their offense from 2017-18.
4.  Steve Wojciechowski: Has improved across the board, but is the only BE coach that is a flight risk.
5.  Doug McDermott: Live by the three, die by the three. Creighton needs balance.
6.  Patrick Ewing: Has the upside, but still needs to coach the college game and not an NBA game.
7.  Travis Steele: Could be moving up this list very soon. The Xavier track record of developing coaches is impressive.
8.  Lavall Jordan: As noted above, what's the trajectory?
9.  Chris Mullin: If he couldn't win with this year's team, how will he going forward?
10. Dave Leitao: Obviously, gets the Xs and Os, but DePaul has finished with the 9th or 10th seed in 5 of last 6 seasons.

[NickelDimer]

She did say that about you.   

Didn’t realize you two were gal pals!