Intentional Foul Question

[TallTitan34]

I just had a basketball rules question.

When an intentional foul occurs the team gets two free throws and the ball.  When Dom was fouled last night he made the shot.  Why doesn't he recieve a free throw for making the basket and then an additional two free throws for the intentional foul?

[NavinRJohnson]

I was wondering the same thing. COuldn't figure out why he (Acker), got 2 FT's. Since the shot was good, I wold have thought 1 + the ball, or 1 + 2 + the ball.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is there any video of the takedown....ESPN says "file not found"

[Chili]

someone posted this on the other site

http://i238.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/marquettetitan34/dom2.flv

[Gwaki]

someone posted this on the other site

http://i238.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/marquettetitan34/dom2.flv

That someone would be the one who started this thread....

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

I just had a basketball rules question.

When an intentional foul occurs the team gets two free throws and the ball.  When Dom was fouled last night he made the shot.  Why doesn't he recieve a free throw for making the basket and then an additional two free throws for the intentional foul?

This is how I understand it. In order for that to happen, Nutter would have had to foul twice: One personal, which would have had to happened as James was in his motion to make the basket, and then he would have had to get an intentional also (an extra push on James could have done that). Instead, Nutter just fouled James intentionally while he was taking the shot, so only one foul occurred.

I'm pretty sure the right number of FTs were taken.

[bilsu]

I did not see the play, but I was wondering the same thing. I thought possibly he was fouled after the basket was made.

[TallTitan34]

Thanks chuncken.  That makes sense.

[The Man in Gold]

I think an easy way to look at it, is an intentional foul awards 2 shots and the ball.  If you were in the double bonus, you wouldn't get 2 shots in the bonus then 2 intentional foul free throws.  So you wouldn't expect him to take more than 2, without an extra foul being called, i.e. a personal and a technical which is different from an intentional foul.

DJ was fouled in the act of shooting, and even though he made the basket, they don't reduce the number of free throws awarded to 1.

All in all we got the right number of free throws just a unique play since if you're going to foul intentionally you should probably stop the guy from scoring.

[IAmMarquette]

I took it this way:

DJ was fouled in the act of shooting and made the shot, meaning he gets 1FT.

Acker then took 2FTs, and MU got the ball.

I took this to mean that the intentional foul garnered 1 shot and the ball, while the other free throw was for the shooting foul.

Makes sense to me, but I don't know if that's the actual rule.


EDIT: Found this from page BR-146 of the 2006 NCAA basketball rule book. (Surprised that it's linked to the Bloomington, IN visitors website?)
www.visitbloomington.com/docs/NCAARules.pdf

Section 16. (Men) Penalty for Intentional  Technical Fouls
Art. 1. The penalty for an intentional technical foul shall be two free throws awarded to a player of the offended team and possession of the ball to the offended tam at a designated spot at the division line.

Shouldn't we have gotten 3FTs?

[TallTitan34]

I think TheManInGold and chuncken make a good arguement.  I mean obviously they are right because thats what happened.

All in all we got the right number of free throws just a unique play since if you're going to foul intentionally you should probably stop the guy from scoring.

Haha exactly.  I had never seen an intentional where the guy managed to still make it that's why I had never thought about this situation before.

[bma725]

The only time you get 3 free throws on an intentional foul is if you were shooting a 3 pointer and you missed the shot.  Made shots, whether 2 or 3 pointers, result in 2 shots no matter what.  Missed 2 point shots result in 2 free throws, missed 3 point shots result in 3 free throws.  

The +1 rule does not apply.  Once a foul is deemed to be a flagrant foul, the +1 or continuation rule is no longer in effect.  

If you're really bored, its NCAA rule 10.20.2 (c)

[rocky_warrior]

If you're really bored, its NCAA rule 10.20.2 (c)

Does that mean you have them memorized, or were really bored? 

[MUViking]

"Shouldn't we have gotten 3FTs?"


The way I look at it is that this is the college hoops version of the rule against double jeopardy.  You can't be penalized twice for the same foul.  An intentional foul is more serious (and offers more potential benefit) than a personal foul.  The "and 1" foul shot, therefore, is overridden by the intentional foul shots and the ball out of bounds, which provides more benefit to Marquette.

It is a strange play... I agree.  You just don't see the shots off intentional fouls going in very often.  I can't think of another one offhand.

[SoCalEagle]

MU Viking, always thinking like a lawyer.

[bma725]

If you're really bored, its NCAA rule 10.20.2 (c)

Does that mean you have them memorized, or were really bored? 

Little of both.  Though probably more from door #2.  Knew most of the explanation, but it was a slow day at work so I figured I'd look up the whole thing.

[wadesworld]

What about a situation where a team gets a technical foul (for arguing the call would be the most likely reason I could think of) after getting a shooting foul (or the other team is in the bonus)?  Isn't it then 2 shots where whatever shooter the team wants to shoot the free throws by himself at the line, and then the 2 shots for the team foul with whoever was fouled shooting them?  And then that team does not get the ball, just the two free throws.  Is that right?