'03 vs '06

[State]

I know it is unfair and impossible to say what team is better at this point as '06 has a long way to prove themselves this year.  However, there has been a lot of talk that '06 is better...

'03                           vs          '06
Wade                       vs           Matthews/NcNeal
Novak/Townsend        vs           Hayward/Fitz
Merritt/Grimm/Jackson  vs          Barro/Lott/Burke
Diener/Chapman          vs          James/Cubillan


I realize that some of the comparisons are tough as '06 is pretty vague in terms of positions.  I also realize we are all riding high after a big week but look at the matchups and tell me '06 is still a better team.  And yes I am taking into account Diener as a Soph and Novak as a Freshman.

IMO...

Our ball handling overall (Cub, James, Matthews and Fitz) is head and shoulders above that of Diener/Chapman/Wade.  (Didn't put McNeal in our 'ballhandler' group, still needs to show me somethings).

Our current bench ('06) obviously adds much more depth...when Wade was out I would hold my breath.  Thank goodness he played pretty much the entire game.  However, Merritt would bring in some nice relief or addition to that of Jackson.  We also had the option to go 'BIG' with Grimm and Jackson in at the same time.  Not so much this year with Kinsella out.

Those seem to be our only true advantages as of right now....could possibly add coaching.  I know I keep saying this but Crean's coaching job over Duke is the best I've seen out of him.

No real advantage...tenacity.  Both teams are/were 'deflection brainwashed' for better or worse.  Love getting after the ball and causing confusion.

The '03 team had hands down (no pun here...as Barro has none!!) better inside out game (sounding like Murff!!).  Jackson was a presence on the inside...a pure workhorse.  Merritt really didn't develop his 'touch' until senior year.  Barro played OK in my mind against McRoberts...it looked like he was just holding on!!  He bit on every ball fake--it drove me nuts.

Three point shooting...Novak, Diener (can't forget about Chappy) really could shoot the ball from outside.  We still are looking for someone to even look at the hoop from outside (agh hem..Fitz, Hayward).

The 'X Factor'---'03 had one of the greatest players in recent history (not biased at all!!) with Wade.  That is easy to say now, but I think we all can agree we thought that back then.  Who is our 'X Factor' now...James...Matthews...?  We work better as a team...but who do we go to in the closing seconds.  Do we want James driving in hopes of getting fouled (we've seen him shoot FT's...not pretty)?  Do we want more of a inside/out game with Barro and Fitz?  Barro passing...not pretty.


Still tons of ball to play and much more time for players to grow in certain areas...but saying '06 is better than '03 at this point is tough for me to believe.

Not to steal someone's coined pharse from '03 but 'Enjoy the Ride' in '06 as well!!  A great team that has only started to reach their potential.

[spiral97]

how would you rate "teamplay" on both of the teams?

[State]

how would you rate "teamplay" on both of the teams?

That is really up for debate...

It seems that so far this year we have had to rely on team play more so than '03.  Think about it...our FF run was pretty much guys stepping up big in each game.  Deiner, Novak, Chap, Wade/Jackson.

I do like the spread of offense between our Big Three...but who of those three has the ability to go for 30 in a game??  Even though we may not 'want' a guy to go for 30 (as this means the 'team' is not playing well)...it was always nice to know that Wade '03, Diener '04 and Novak '05 could at any moment take the game over.  I just don't see it this year.

Long answer...this year has better 'team' play...not necessarily a plus!!

[spiral97]

I guess I meant in light of the style of play.. the fact that we're playing so fast these days compared to "back then" (hate that phrase since it only makes me feel old).  Does speed of the game have any impact on your rating?  You also didn't mention rebounding..

As for your comment about a take-over type player.. I would say James is geared to be one and has shown flashes of it (e.g. the Duke game).  By midway through conference play I think he will be more reliably so.   I am starting to think Cubillan is going to do it on the defensive end too.  I'm also expecting Barro to have a "moment-of-self-discovery" and break-out on the glass and be able to strong post any game now (but maybe he'll keep stringing me along *sigh*).

[SoCalwarrior]

The X factor is James.  He is the real deal and probably top ten in the NCAA and rising.  I saw it live in San Diego last year when he put the team on his shoulders in the second half and brought them back from the dead.  

I think that second half was a real eye opener for Crean.  His style was always geared toward a team of average athletes.  (Wade was the exception, but the rest of the 2003 team was still average).  But with the team's back against the wall in San Diego, he unleashed the athletisim of the freshman, particularly James and we came back.  

And now today.  We have a team full of athletes and Crean is letting them play.  The mistakes they will make will probably appear more glaring, but the trade off is a lot more fun.

[State]

The X factor is James.  He is the real deal and probably top ten in the NCAA and rising........ (Wade was the exception, but the rest of the 2003 team was still average).  

Can't argue that James is the X Factor for this team...but take the best Matthews has to offer, the best James has to offer and the best McNeal and who do you have...Wade!!! 

Calling Novak and Jackson average is laughable. 

'06 is good and so is James, no doubt.  But this team is far from that of '03.

[spiral97]

but take the best Matthews has to offer, the best James has to offer and the best McNeal and who do you have...Wade!!! 

well.. almost 

I LOVE to watch Wade play and am a HUGE supporter... however, there are advantages of splitting him up into 3 people..
1.) you can't double and/or contain all three of em at once
2.) all three are unlikely to be in foul trouble at the same time
3.) sharing load between the three means they are more rested as a whole
4.) wade cannot pass the ball to himself (without acrobatics)
5.) (to be read in the quietest of quiet whispers and immediately forgotten) all three cannot be held back if one gets injured

[SoCalwarrior]

Calling Novak and Jackson average is laughable.

I meant athletically average. 

[State]

[1.) you can't double and/or contain all three of em at once

Devil's Advocate here...

is that necessarily a bad thing? 

Think of all the mismatches created when teams have to double team a player.  On the perimeter Diener and Novak (I won't include Townsend in this...why he started is beyond me!!) usually benefited from this with open looks while Jackson had easy put-ins when Wade would draw the double from down low.

Doubling a teams best player usually makes the rest of the team that much better.

[spiral97]

Doubling a teams best player usually makes the rest of the team that much better.

Not suggesting that other teams won't try to double team a player, it's just that when they pick one to double, the other two will be that much more open and their "allotment of wade's talent" won't be stopped.

[SoCalwarrior]

Wade was more than double teamed.  Our opponents defensive game plan was to basically zone Wade and let the others try and beat them.  You can't do that in the NBA.  I remember a quote from Shaq that said it's a lot easier to go up against Ewing or Robinson than three guys from Mississippi St.  If this MU team continues to play like it has, our opponents will have to play man to man.  And if that's the case, there are few teams that can put three on the floor that can match our sophmores.

[State]

If this MU team continues to play like it has, our opponents will have to play man to man.  And if that's the case, there are few teams that can put three on the floor that can match our sophomores.

I still think the way to beat us...if you can keep up...is Zone.  Duke just couldn't find guys to play 40 minutes.  As the numbers show (apparently there are many ways to interpret these from the post below shows), we will need to start making our out side shots and/or continue to run the pants off of teams.  I perfer the later.

[MUCHI814]

As long as we're comparing '03 and '06...Now that Marquette is at 8/9 in the AP and ESPN polls, What is the lowest the '03 team ever got in AP and ESPN polls in '03?

[SoCalwarrior]

I too hope we just run the pants off 'em.  Duke is a good defensive team.  As frantic of a pace we had going in the first half, they held us to 32 and were up by two.  MU won because of points off the turnover.  You can't zone that.

[SoCalwarrior]

As long as we're comparing '03 and '06...Now that Marquette is at 8/9 in the AP and ESPN polls, What is the lowest the '03 team ever got in AP and ESPN polls in '03?

I believe the week before the tourney, MU was 6th in the coaches/espn.  Maybe 7th or 8th in the AP.

We were 4 after the tourney.

[State]

Looks like James IS our 'X factor'!!!!!