Stricter block-charge calls wanted

[Tugg Speedman]

Since it is the off-season ....

Why would they want to penalize defense?  This cannot lead to big an increase in scoring, can it?

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Stricter block-charge calls wanted

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10909425/ncaa-rules-committee-wants-stricter-block-charge-calls

The NCAA men's basketball rules committee wants a stricter interpretation on charge-block calls next season.

It still must be approved by the Playing Rules Oversight Panel in June.

The most significant change would require defenders to be set in legal guarding position before an offensive player jumps to draw a charge. If the defender moves in any direction, other than vertically to block a shot, it would be called a block.

Other potential changes include expanding the restricted area in front of the basket, calling fouls for defenders who push a leg or knee into the rear end of a player of an opponent and calling a foul on the offensive player if he gained position by pushing back. Those changes would only be used on an experimental basis.

[LAMUfan]

they should just get rid of it all together.  Don't let people try to take a charge and you wont have a 50 50 BS call all the time.

[GooooMarquette]

They said essentially the same thing last year...and it led to some painful games where virtually any contact was a defensive foul.  Now they want to be even more strict?!?

How about just giving the offensive team the ball while the other team sits on the sideline?  That will generate some exciting offensive battles.

[GGGG]

they should just get rid of it all together.  Don't let people try to take a charge and you wont have a 50 50 BS call all the time.

So you are suggesting that no charges should exist and that all contact is a foul on the defender in these situations?  That's a pretty fundamental change to the game.

[LAMUfan]

not that all contact is a foul, but force the defender to make a play on the ball, if they foul them then that's a foul, if they can't get into a position to play actual defense then get out of the way.  you could still call some variations of charge like plays that are egregious, just not the slipping in with your hands over your nuts and getting knocked over ones.  They get the call wrong half of the time anyway, players would adjust their defense accordingly, might lead to higher scoring but probably not.  The call is just impossible to make with any consistency.

[GOO]

not that all contact is a foul, but force the defender to make a play on the ball, if they foul them then that's a foul, if they can't get into a position to play actual defense then get out of the way.  you could still call some variations of charge like plays that are egregious, just not the slipping in with your hands over your nuts and getting knocked over ones.  They get the call wrong half of the time anyway, players would adjust their defense accordingly, might lead to higher scoring but probably not.  The call is just impossible to make with any consistency.

Not sure where you are going with this, but I'm not sure it makes sense.

Seems to be a problem if the defender can't establish position and stand between the offensive player and the hoop... as mentioned above, it would completely change the game.  Is the defender supposed to get out of the way of an offensive player that is coming at the defender toward the hoop?  Does this also apply on the perimeter?   

It seems that your rule change would make basketball a game of layups and dunks.  With the occasional missed dunk or poor pass determining the winner of the game.

Essentially, offensive contact would be a foul on the defender even if the defender was standing in the way of the offensive player. 

[LAMUfan]

trying to say that you shouldn't be able to take a charge as a defensive strategy.  In other words you should not be able to do it on purpose.  It would obviously be more complicated than that with actual rule changes, but charge/ block calls suck.  If they could call it correctly it would be fine, but they cannot, so it is just annoying.

[Marquette_g]

They said essentially the same thing last year...and it led to some painful games where virtually any contact was a defensive foul.  Now they want to be even more strict?!?

How about just giving the offensive team the ball while the other team sits on the sideline?  That will generate some exciting offensive battles.

I have last year's NCAA basketball season as the most inconsistent and unwatchable product due to officiating I can remember since the last world cup and the NBA circa 2001.

[GGGG]

trying to say that you shouldn't be able to take a charge as a defensive strategy.  In other words you should not be able to do it on purpose.  

You really are losing me here.  So a charge can only be a charge if a player is in a good defensive position by mistake?  But if the defensive player gets himself into position on purpose, it's no longer a charge?

I would rather put up with inconsistent calls than what you are recommending.

[LAMUfan]

No, I've lost you, my fault.  I'm thinking about taking a charge like a flop, does that help?  Like if you just hop into someones way and just stand there without any attempt at actual defense and get run over on purpose.  That's what I don't like, also what they are trying to change with these rules (making it harder to take a charge).  I just wish guys wouldn't go out of their way to take a charge.

[GGGG]

But jumping in front of someone to take a charge *is* actual defense.  Beating an offensive player to a spot on the floor is the essence of basketball defense. 

[MUfan12]

You really are losing me here.  So a charge can only be a charge if a player is in a good defensive position by mistake?  But if the defensive player gets himself into position on purpose, it's no longer a charge?

Here's what I think LA is saying... eliminate the charge call for a secondary defender. Make help defenders challenge a shot, rather than getting in the way and falling down.

It would be a radical change, but I think it would open up play quite a bit.

[GGGG]

Here's what I think LA is saying... eliminate the charge call for a secondary defender. Make help defenders challenge a shot, rather than getting in the way and falling down.

OK, now *that* I understand...thanks for adding "secondary defender."  I'm not sure I agree, but it makes more sense that you put it that way.

[Marquette_g]

Was this really broke?  I mean I look back at college hoops from 4-5 years ago and don't think that was such a bad product with so many charges that the game needed to be changed.

The NBA needed to change because the game got so bogged down by isolation basketball and hand checking.

[brandx]

trying to say that you shouldn't be able to take a charge as a defensive strategy.  In other words you should not be able to do it on purpose.  It would obviously be more complicated than that with actual rule changes, but charge/ block calls suck.  If they could call it correctly it would be fine, but they cannot, so it is just annoying.

Just use the NBA rules. They have eliminated 90% of the controversy over this. Either the defensive player is clearly fully set outside the 4' arc or it is a foul on the defense. Almost all 50/50 calls go against the defense. Most offensive fouls in the NBA are for wipe aways.

[MU82]

My pet peeve is the moving screen.

It's an epidemic in both college basketball and the NBA. The screener routinely sticks out his keister, leg, hip, thigh, sometimes even his arm.

It happens routinely when a team goes to its halfcourt offense. In the NBA, it happens on just about every single halfcourt possession, often multiple times.

In a playoff game yesterday, Boris Diaw actually reached out and grabbed the guy who was trying to get around the screen and was surprised when the foul was called.

Moving screens are called so rarely that it's almost shocking when it happens -- like a 3-second call or a palming violation.

Uncalled moving screens give the offense a humongous advantage.

[LAMUfan]

Here's what I think LA is saying... eliminate the charge call for a secondary defender. Make help defenders challenge a shot, rather than getting in the way and falling down.

It would be a radical change, but I think it would open up play quite a bit.

That's pretty much it, thanks.

[TheBurrEffect]

No, I've lost you, my fault.  I'm thinking about taking a charge like a flop, does that help?  Like if you just hop into someones way and just stand there without any attempt at actual defense and get run over on purpose.  That's what I don't like, also what they are trying to change with these rules (making it harder to take a charge).  I just wish guys wouldn't go out of their way to take a charge.

Uhh so what your saying, is that, getting in front of a an offensive player, IE: beating him to a spot to score from, isn't defense?

[LAMUfan]

no, that's not what I'm saying.  Some stern defenders of the charge call here. 

[barfolomew]

I'm tired of the anti-charge media controlling the dialogue on this issue.
I understand it's highly polarizing, but as an American, I have every right to take a charge to defend myself and my basket.
I don't want some NCAA egghead from Indianapolis who doesn't understand how we play basktball to tell ME I can't take a charge!

"They can take my charge when they pry it out of my cold, dead whistle." -- Jim Burr

[LAMUfan]

I'm tired of the anti-charge media controlling the dialogue on this issue.
I understand it's highly polarizing, but as an American, I have every right to take a charge to defend myself and my basket.
I don't want some NCAA egghead from Indianapolis who doesn't understand how we play basktball to tell ME I can't take a charge!

"They can take my charge when they pry it out of my cold, dead whistle." -- Jim Burr

+1 excellent

[GGGG]

no, that's not what I'm saying.  Some stern defenders of the charge call here. 

Well, because it's been part of the game since it began.  And it is undoubtedly a tough call.  Creating a rule that "secondary defenders need to make a play on the ball" is mostly an acknowledgement that the call is too tough to make in its current form.

But that doesn't mean it isn't worth an experiment to see if the game can be made better with the rule change.  Others I would like to see:

**Elimination of goal-tending once the ball hits the rim.
**No time outs except for a dead ball or a made basket.

[MUfan12]

Well, because it's been part of the game since it began.  And it is undoubtedly a tough call.  Creating a rule that "secondary defenders need to make a play on the ball" is mostly an acknowledgement that the call is too tough to make in its current form.

As you mentioned, it has been part of the game forever. But, players are far bigger, and far more athletic than they used to be. Not only has the call become far too difficult to get right consistently, I think there's a player safety element to it as well. These guys get to the hoop and elevate so quickly, that having someone slide in trying to take a charge is dangerous, IMO. It's frankly pretty amazing there haven't been more serious injuries with how hard they hit the floor.