Davante Gardner-possible All American

[tower912]

I can only say that people that think Otule is definitely better than Gardner are wrong. Look at the stats.  And Otule has two more years of experience. I guess those people are very sure that Otule will be drafted by the NBA. We can wait and see. And starting a guy to win the tip about half the time seems lame to me. Buzz sarted some other guys that only saw about 3 minutes a half, including Erik Williams who is out of basketball, I believe.

Yes, Otule is a hard worker, so is Derrick Wilson, so is Juan Anderson, so is Jake Thomas, so are many other players--does that mean that a hard worker should start? I am glad we have Otule and glad he is coming back, and hope he improves more next year.

I am not saying Otule is better than Gardner.    Otule is better defensively.   Gardner is better offensively.   However, it is a myth to say that Gardner is an unstoppable offensive juggernaut.   His point totals were all over the place.   He struggles to get his shot off against athletic bigs.   He gets frustrated when he doesn't get a call and it affects his defense.      IMO, Buzz needs to keep doing what he is doing with his centers.  

[BCHoopster]

Losing weight is fine, but Devante has to learn how to block out with that weight, barely puts his body on another player.  He will never be a big jumper, but how many times was he
out hustled on the D end, needs to learn fundamentals and get tougher, stop pounding his chest every time he makes a lay-up, get back, and plays D.

[willie warrior]

I am not saying Otule is better than Gardner.    Otule is better defensively.   Gardner is better offensively.   However, it is a myth to say that Gardner is an unstoppable offensive juggernaut.   His point totals were all over the place.   He struggles to get his shot off against athletic bigs.   He gets frustrated when he doesn't get a call and it affects his defense.      IMO, Buzz needs to keep doing what he is doing with his centers.  

Never said that Gardner is an offensive juggernaught--that is what you just said was a myth.. He is much better than Otule offensively in all categories--except shooting %. What I said is that I never understood Otule starting for the tip, which he doesn't get overwhelmingly. Jamil Wilson could do as well on the tip. I get that Otule is better defensively, although how much is debatable. It is equally a myth to say that Otule is a defensive juggernaught.
I have already said that Otule should start at Center and Gardner at PF. With players we have next year they can both be spelled for rest purposes as much as needed with Ja. Wilson, McKay, Taylor. Then some people get excited that would never work to have Gardner play PF. I remember when Gardner first arrived at MU how many criticized him as being marginal. Has he not proven those wrong?
Sorry some of you disagree, but I guess that is par for some to then criticize.

[PVMagic]

The 2nd half of the season, it felt like Otule would get about 6 of our first 10 points to start the game (and then not score from there on out).

[MU82]

Don't argue with Willie.  It doesn't achieve a single thing.

Agree. No sense arguing with a guy who either didn't see Marquette play from Feb. 1 on and/or who has no basketball knowledge beyond looking at a stat sheet.

[willie warrior]

Agree. No sense arguing with a guy who either didn't see Marquette play from Feb. 1 on and/or who has no basketball knowledge beyond looking at a stat sheet.

Thank you MU82. You know nothing about me, but you sure show your knowledge. Been an Mu fan since 1955, but all that makes me is an old guy who knows nothing!

[MU82]

Thank you MU82. You know nothing about me, but you sure show your knowledge. Been an Mu fan since 1955, but all that makes me is an old guy who knows nothing!

All I'm saying is that if you think Otule didn't significantly help the Warriors from Feb. 1 on, the scope of your knowledge is questionable.

[NavinRJohnson]

Saying Davante needs to lose weight seems like such an uninformed response by these guys. His size is what makes him so good. No, he isn't going to win any marathons or play 30 minutes a game. He is what he is, a 250+ lb bowling ball with an incredibly soft touch who throws his weight into people and draws a ton of fouls. Explosiveness isn't his game and most likely never will be. I love DeDe for who he is.

They didn't say he needs to lose weight. They said his size will limit his playing time. By your own admission, its an accurate statement.

[willie warrior]

All I'm saying is that if you think Otule didn't significantly help the Warriors from Feb. 1 on, the scope of your knowledge is questionable.

Never said he didn't significantly help from Feb. 1. I have said they both should start next year.
So lets take a look at the facts:
During the stretch that you keep mentioning From Feb.1:
Otule averaged 6.3 ppg and 4.2 rpg-his season averages were 5.1 and 3.5 rpg-so he did increase his average by 1.2ppg and .7rpg during that stretch, which is good.
During those same 16 games, Gardner outscored Otule 11 of those games. Gardner averaged 9.4 ppg and 4.0 rpg in that stretch. Gardner also had 15 assists in that stretch to Otule's 6. Gardner had 31 TO's to Otule's 22.

If you want to say that Otule significantly helped the Warriors, fine. Then we can both agree that Gardner even more significantly helped the Warriors than Otule during that stretch.

Never ever let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

[RawdogDX]

Saying Davante needs to lose weight seems like such an uninformed response by these guys. His size is what makes him so good. No, he isn't going to win any marathons or play 30 minutes a game. He is what he is, a 250+ lb bowling ball with an incredibly soft touch who throws his weight into people and draws a ton of fouls. Explosiveness isn't his game and most likely never will be. I love DeDe for who he is.

???  Last time he was 250 he was probably 15 years old.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Never said he didn't significantly help from Feb. 1. I have said they both should start next year.
So lets take a look at the facts:
During the stretch that you keep mentioning From Feb.1:
Otule averaged 6.3 ppg and 4.2 rpg-his season averages were 5.1 and 3.5 rpg-so he did increase his average by 1.2ppg and .7rpg during that stretch, which is good.
During those same 16 games, Gardner outscored Otule 11 of those games. Gardner averaged 9.4 ppg and 4.0 rpg in that stretch. Gardner also had 15 assists in that stretch to Otule's 6. Gardner had 31 TO's to Otule's 22.

If you want to say that Otule significantly helped the Warriors, fine. Then we can both agree that Gardner even more significantly helped the Warriors than Otule during that stretch.

Never ever let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

Dude.  It doesn't matter who starts the game.  Otule does for the tip and defense.  Not hard to wrap your brain around.  Davante finishes the game due to his offense and FT shooting prowess.  Throughout the game the two are generally subbed offense/defense, so as to maximize Davante's offensive possessions.  This formula has worked very well when both were healthy the past two years.  What's there to complain about?

[brewcity77]

What I said is that I never understood Otule starting for the tip, which he doesn't get overwhelmingly. Jamil Wilson could do as well on the tip.

Chris Otule won 24 tips in 35 games this year, which is 68.9% of the tip-offs we took. I don't think Jamil would win anywhere close to that. Maybe 35-40%. Gardner would probably win about 5-10%.

It's not complicated, and anyone that thinks being guaranteed to at least tie the possession battle doesn't matter immensely to Buzz for a team that is often playing one to two possession games simply doesn't understand anything about how this team operates.

[Coleman]

Chris Otule won 24 tips in 35 games this year, which is 68.9% of the tip-offs we took. I don't think Jamil would win anywhere close to that. Maybe 35-40%. Gardner would probably win about 5-10%.

It's not complicated, and anyone that thinks being guaranteed to at least tie the possession battle doesn't matter immensely to Buzz for a team that is often playing one to two possession games simply doesn't understand anything about how this team operates.

GREAT points Brew. Otule is the obvious choice for the starting 5, for these reasons and everything else mentioned before. Davante belongs in to close games out and make the free throws. Its an almost perfect arrangement. Both are important and valuable for different reasons. And having the ability to have two bigs play 20-25 minutes a game like that is a really valuable asset, and one of the reasons I still think we win the Big East next year, even without Vander.

[GB Warrior]

If there's anything good that came from the Elite-Eight game, it was the unique opportunity to see Gardner and Otule on the court simultaneously. I really liked the combo, and if Gardner got in better shape, I would love to see us use this with a little more frequency this year.