Why can't we stay at 10?

[Litehouse]

Why do we need to provide as much content as possible if Fox isn't going to pay any more per school for it?

[Eldon]

It's 20%, cven was right. I knew that but was doing quick math on the way out the door and miscalculated. 108 games vs 90.

And it's impossible to fill it with non-conference games because we will likely be playing an 18 game schedule regardless. With an 18-game schedule, every team is going to only be able to play 13 non-conference games. Whether the league provides 108 games or 90 games to Fox, the individual universities still only play 13 non-con games. None of those games are guaranteed to Fox.

We need to provide as much content as possible, and that means 12+ teams. It's more likely we'll end up going to 14 or 16 than ever staying at 10. If we do go 10, I would be absolutely shocked if it's for more than 1 year.

Couldn't Fox take the money that they were going to give for the two new members ($50M each) and spend that on airing the non-conference games of the other 10?  I'm sure Fox has thought of this, I'd just like to know why it's seemingly been ruled out.

[forgetful]

Couldn't Fox take the money that they were going to give for the two new members ($50M each) and spend that on airing the non-conference games of the other 10?  I'm sure Fox has thought of this, I'd just like to know why it's seemingly been ruled out.

Heck, you could almost buy the rights to the America 12 for that money.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why do we need to provide as much content as possible if Fox isn't going to pay any more per school for it?

It's more than just the pure cash, it's the exposure, etc.  More games, equal more pushing of the brand, the conference, etc.  That's what additional content gives you.  Fox can be a great partner and I think we have to weigh how important it is to make the partner that will be absolutely bar none our biggest single promoter...happy.  And if they want to throw $100 million into the coffers for that happiness, even more reason to do so even if it doesn't change the per school receivable.  It means more Big East games on television and that's a good thing.

[brewcity77]

Couldn't Fox take the money that they were going to give for the two new members ($50M each) and spend that on airing the non-conference games of the other 10?  I'm sure Fox has thought of this, I'd just like to know why it's seemingly been ruled out.

The only way that works is if Fox is scheduling those non-conference games. Have you seen the way some of these teams schedule? You have to remember to throw out any games that are non-conference tourney affiliated because those all already have television deals in place.

Providence: They played one team in the RPI top-150, away to #113 Boston College. The highest profile game they actually scheduled was #158 Bryant. They also played #230 Mississippi State, though that was in the made-for-TV Big East/SEC Challenge.

Seton Hall: Do you think the sponsors will line up for RPI #81 Stony Brook? The Pirates played no one. From a name recognition perspective, they did play at ACC team Wake Forest, but they had a RPI of 170 and have been obviously down for a couple years now.

DePaul: The Blue Demons played at RPI #88 Arizona State. Beyond that, the biggest names are Fairfield and Gardner-Webb.

Quite simply, not everyone schedules like Marquette and Georgetown. And my guess is Fox will already be trying to get a series going between the NBE and either the Pac-12 or Big 12, so you'd need two made-for-TV high-major matchups after the non-con tourneys and the annual series. And when you're down, teams just don't want to schedule like that.

I know some people may not like it, but 12 teams is the way we are going to go. If not the first year then definitely the second. There is really no use hoping and praying that we stay at 10 because it simply isn't going to happen. Better to look at which teams will be the best fits for 11 and 12 because I guarantee you they are coming.

[77ncaachamps]

Question to Chicos: Do you think ESPN will make it difficult for any of their conferences to schedule games with a Fox sponsored BE?

[brewcity77]

Question to Chicos: Do you think ESPN will make it difficult for any of their conferences to schedule games with a Fox sponsored BE?

I'm not CBB, but while ESPN might, Fox also has rights to the Big 12 and Pac-12. We probably won't end up with the same non-con affiliations, but there are options there.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Question to Chicos: Do you think ESPN will make it difficult for any of their conferences to schedule games with a Fox sponsored BE?

No.

[slingkong]

Would you change your mind on SLU if they made a deep run in the tourney?   They are having a great year and are very capable of an Elite Eight.   Wouldn't be suprised if they knocked off Butler later today to win the A-10.   MU's BEast invite was (partially) based on a strong run in 2003, VCU upgraded to A10 as a result of recent success,  and Butler jumped up two notches because of their play the past few years.   Just saying, SLU has had some recent success and could make a deep run this year -- and it seems like they are committed to keeping that program at a high level.   Would a S16 or E8 change your mind?  Dayton on the other hand............

Even if SLU makes a run, it's not like they're going to get an offer from another conference. Why not wait a year or two to see if they can keep it up without Majerus? History shows the school is not committed to the basketball team, especially with Biondi at the helm.

[shoothoops]

Vandy is poor this year, but has been a very, very solid program for quite some time.

Vandy has had two 4,5, and 6 seeded NCAA teams in recent memory.  A few years back they were a basket away from the elite 8 losing to eventual Final Four team Georgetown.  They won the 2012 SEC Tournament title.  They lost their top 6 players, 7 overall this past year.  3 of those were lost to the NBA, including one that left school early.  No Seniors on this past year's team which was mostly Fr and So.  Good player coming in too.  They'll be fine.  Lots of money and improvement going on there the past decade.  Elite baseball program, (#2 in country this year so far, 19-2) and up and coming football program that won 9 games and a bowl game this past year.  

[GGGG]

Even if SLU makes a run, it's not like they're going to get an offer from another conference. Why not wait a year or two to see if they can keep it up without Majerus? History shows the school is not committed to the basketball team, especially with Biondi at the helm.

I'm not sure you can say they're not committed.  They paid Majerus over $1M and Chaifetz Arena is about five years old.  They are definitely at a crossroads right now, both as a basketball program and as an institution, but I think basketball is important to SLU.

And if they don't get a BE invite, they likely will lobby to get into the MVC.  If Dayton ends up in the NBE, their closest conference rival in the A10 will be Duquesne.  OTOH, they would be smack dab in the middle of the MVC.

[shoothoops]

SLU would never lobby to get into the MVC.  They were in the MVC a long time ago.  They have no interest in returning.  They chose the A-10 when they didn't get in the Big East.  Marquette fans can relate to the notion that SLU wanted and wants something much different than the MVC.  The A-10 is a much different culture than the MVC.  It's also a better basketball league, then and now.  Some people only think of geography and nothing else.  Similar to Marquette, that's not their thinking.

As for on the court success, Creighton has made the NCAA's 9 times in the past 20 years, making it past the first game a fee times, never the second, all while playing in the MVC, which hasn't had the same strength most of that time as SLU's leagues.  SLU has made it 6 times during that 20 year span.  There are differences, but not as great after a deeper look. And keep in mind during much of this time SLU did not have a commitment to hoops, and nowhere near what they have now.  SLU will also be very good next year, and eill need to jeep it going after that.  Majerus lobbied and battled fr assistant coach pay, strength coach, charter flights, etc...or he wouldn't have taken the job.  They also have new money boosters too.  Chaifetz flies from Chicago to their games.  When they are competitive, all of top 20ish media market of Stl takes notice and watches and attends games.  And, Biondi won't be there forever.

SLU is not a culture fit for a league like the MVC, and that is why they haven't had any interest in playing in it in recent memory and won't be returning in the future.  

Many SLU fans believe that they are already in the new Big East and that it hasn't been announced yet.  We'll see.

[GGGG]

OK, I probably should have hedged my bets a little better.  I understand where you are coming from, and a quick review of their message boards pretty much supports a lot of what you say here.

[shoothoops]

It's an easy thing in which to jump to a conclusion without deeper exploration.  Happens to many.  I kid you not when I say that philosophically speaking, SLU people, the majority, want a bigger Northeast footprint for students, media etc...hoops, just like Marquette fans.  This upsets MVC people, and has been perceived to be arrogant.  Many people outside of a Marquette or SLU don't understand the thinking.  They just think geography.  Just like college hoops rivalries.  College hoops rivalres, or many sports rivalries are built on repeated competitive play over time, not necessarily geography.  MU fans know this well.  SLU fans understand this concept too.

Interesting nugget is when Majerus took the job, he very quickly settled on a flat $1 million compensation.  He could have tried for more.  He smartly knew the real battle with Biondi was resources such as assistant coaches pay, strength coach, charter flights, budget, and those types of things.  And let me tell you, it was a battle.  Biondi went back on multiple promises and Rick fought with him a lot. He liked and respected Biondi too.  He knew he was a mirror image in some ways.  Biondi is every bit as tough and stubborn as Rick was. 

The on campus arena was already in the works before Majerus' arrival.  It was over $80 million.  It's now one of the most used arenas for its size nationally.  Majerus lobbied for a fee changes in the arena plans before its completion. 

[muwarrior69]

Well it looks like were going to stay at 10, at least for now.

[The Lens]

I understand the content issue but isn't FOX already talking with ESPN about sub-licencing our games?

Unless the expansion includes Gonzaga, aren't they just adding similar programming, of which they've decided they don't need 100% of it anyways.  Maybe VCU is a sexy TV pick for Fox Sports to keep but won't a lot of SLU, Richmond, Dayton programming be just what we have now, or worse?

[Litehouse]

I understand the content issue but isn't FOX already talking with ESPN about sub-licencing our games?

Unless the expansion includes Gonzaga, aren't they just adding similar programming, of which they've decided they don't need 100% of it anyways.  Maybe VCU is a sexy TV pick for Fox Sports to keep but won't a lot of SLU, Richmond, Dayton programming be just what we have now, or worse?

Exactly, 12 teams would mean more lower quality games and fewer higher quality games, since MU, Georgetown, Villanova wouldn't always play each other twice every year.  It's quantity over quality.

[Farley36]

12 teams seems of little benefit over 10 teams.  Not only does it possibly lower quality of games, but it also adds little inventory for Fox beyond what 10 teams provide.  I'm assuming a 12 team league would have divisions with a 16 game conference schedule (play 5 teams twice + 6 teams once).  That seems the most logical solution with 12 teams.  If so, you only add 6 additional games for Fox.   However, if you went to 14 teams you would have a 19 game league schedule with divisions and add 43 more games for Fox.  If game inventory is the driver then 14 teams seems like the logical move.  I'm not sure you can get to 14 strong teams without adding Gonzaga or the ACC having defectors when that league starts to collapse.  I would under no circumstances consider Dayton.   

[GGGG]

10 teams w/ 18 game schedule = 90 games
12 teams w/ 18 game schedule = 108 games

Now those 18 extra games are probably spread over 10 weeks or so?  That means a night or two per week of additional programming.  That isn't insignificant for a cable network looking for viewers.

Of course, Fox needs to make that worthwhile to divide the pie an extra two ways.  I wouldn't be surprised if this contract may require them to bring in a couple teams within a specified period of time and/or includes some escalator of some sort should they do so.

[The Lens]

10 teams w/ 18 game schedule = 90 games
12 teams w/ 18 game schedule = 108 games

Now those 18 extra games are probably spread over 10 weeks or so?  That means a night or two per week of additional programming.  That isn't insignificant for a cable network looking for viewers.

Right but they're already talking about sub-licensing, so do they really want / need the inventory?

[GGGG]

Right but they're already talking about sub-licensing, so do they really want / need the inventory?

I guess we will find out but honestly I have no idea.

[bradley center bat]

I'm not CBB, but while ESPN might, Fox also has rights to the Big 12 and Pac-12. We probably won't end up with the same non-con affiliations, but there are options there.

The Big-12 is women's basketball.

[RawdogDX]

Butler Xavier and Creighton are great additions.  Why can't we stay at 10?  Fox may be pushing for 12, but I don't understand why.  More content?  This is an all-sports channel, not the Big East channel so I don't get the 'more content' argument. 

More QUALITY content.  Have you seen the stuff on fox sports some nights?

[MU82]

I understand the content issue but isn't FOX already talking with ESPN about sub-licencing our games?

Unless the expansion includes Gonzaga, aren't they just adding similar programming, of which they've decided they don't need 100% of it anyways.  Maybe VCU is a sexy TV pick for Fox Sports to keep but won't a lot of SLU, Richmond, Dayton programming be just what we have now, or worse?

VCU is not "sexy." Aside from the Holy Grail of Gonzaga and Notre Dame, there is no sexy out there to add to the NBE ... and those two ain't bursting through the door, it seems.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Right but they're already talking about sub-licensing, so do they really want / need the inventory?

You sub-license partly to get rid of the dead weight and partly to clear inventory for other content.