Ryan at UW v Williams at MU

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

Who will stay longer at their current head coaching position?

Its always been common to assume Ryan.  However, he is getting up there in age and you would have to assume he wants to retire at some point. 

Its also been said by Gotleib, katz etc that Williams has turned down some pretty big programs and will likey only bolt for Texas.  With all that being said, who will stay at their current gig longer.

Also, can the UW maintain without Ryan?

[GGGG]

The only question I am going to touch is the last one.

When Ryan retires, Gard will get the gig.  Unless something happens at the top levels of the athletic department, I think that is pretty much set in stone.

Now can he maintain it?  Perhaps.  UW has a ton of resources and is considered a winner.  But there is always a step down when you make that switch.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

Interesting.  I had no idea that Gard was a shoe-in for the job.  All the UW fans I talk to seem to thing someone like the younger Bennett or Stephens would get the job.  I know Stephens is  pipe dream...

[GGGG]

There is way too much animosity between UW, Ryan and the Bennett family for Tony to get offered that job...or for him to take it.

You also have to understand how difficult it is to replace someone like Ryan.  Honestly, when is the last time a great coach willingly left and they successfully replaced him with an outsider?  It doesn't happen very often.

[Tugg Speedman]

Also, can the UW maintain without Ryan?

Interesting question.  Before Bo (pre-1999) UW was arguably the worst major school basketball program in the country, and maybe the worst ever.  See this link

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=24378.msg271325#msg271325

----

Wisconsin NCAA appearances
1947
1994
1997
1999 to date (14 in a row).

From 1947 to 1998:
Last in the B10 = 6 times
9th in the B10 = 11 times
8th in the B10 = 6 times

23 of 51 years they finished 8 to 10.  You could argue that for this 51 year period, they were the worst program in the B10, worse than Northwestern.

----

With Bo it has been among the best.  The turn around has been astounding and he should be a first ballot college basket hall-of-fame coach.

When he leaves the question is was Wisconsin a "program" or a "coach?"  If is is a program, then they continue on.  See how MU did after Crean left, that's because it is a "program."  

Now if it is a coach, then the program takes a major hit when he leaves.  See Illinois after Self left.

I have no idea if UW is a coach or a program but if they make the wrong hire after Bo, the program could take a big hit and become another permanent middle/lower of the pack program like Illinois.

Duke/K, Gonzaga/Few, Butler/Stevens will all have the same issue.

[THRILLHO]

Interesting question.  Before Bo (pre-1999) UW was arguably the worst major school basketball program in the country, and maybe the worst ever.  See this link

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=24378.msg271325#msg271325

----

Wisconsin NCAA appearances
1947
1994
1997
1999 to date (14 in a row).

From 1947 to 1998:
Last in the B10 = 6 times
9th in the B10 = 11 times
8th in the B10 = 6 times

23 of 51 years they finished 8 to 10.  You could argue that for this 51 year period, they were the worst program in the B10, worse than Northwestern.

----

With Bo it has been among the best.  The turn around has been astounding and he should be a first ballot college basket hall-of-fame coach.

When he leaves the question is was Wisconsin a "program" or a "coach?"  If is is a program, then they continue on.  See how MU did after Crean left, that's because it is a "program."  

Now if it is a coach, then the program takes a major hit when he leaves.  See Illinois after Self left.

I have no idea if UW is a coach or a program but if they make the wrong hire after Bo, the program could take a big hit and become another permanent middle/lower of the pack program like Illinois.

Duke/K, Gonzaga/Few, Butler/Stevens will all have the same issue.

Small correction -- while Bo has made the program consistently good, I believe Dick Bennett deserves credit for "turning it around."  After starting in 1995 and went to the NCAA multiple times including a Final Four, while UW had only been to the tourney 3 times in 97 years before him (according to wikipedia).

[Litehouse]

You also have to understand how difficult it is to replace someone like Ryan.  Honestly, when is the last time a great coach willingly left and they successfully replaced him with an outsider?  It doesn't happen very often.

Crum to Pitino at Louisville is the only one I can think of where a successful coach actually retired and they replaced him with an outsider.  All the other ones that come to mind were either an insider (like Mich. State), or there was an unsuccessful hire before they got back on track (like UNC, and Roy wasn't exactly an outsider either).  I wouldn't count situations where a coach left for another job(like Roy Williams/Self at Kansas).

[keefe]

Small correction -- while Bo has made the program consistently good, I believe Dick Bennett deserves credit for "turning it around."  After starting in 1995 and went to the NCAA multiple times including a Final Four, while UW had only been to the tourney 3 times in 97 years before him (according to wikipedia).

This is correct. Bennett turned it around and gave Ryan a Final Four program. Ryan has not equaled that but he runs a solid program, with a level of success similar to MU under Williams. Ryan has not let it slip as did Crean, with the shame of dreadful NITs. What is impressive about Ryan is his consistency. He recruits to a system and gets the most out of his players.

[butchbadger]

Greg Gard will NOT get the job even though Bo would like him to.   The administration learned their lesson when Bennett pulled a fast one to get his guy in there.  That was a disaster and won't happen again.  It will be considered a great job and they know it would be foolish not to go out and get the right guy. It won't be Tony Bennett either.

I think Bo rides out next years incoming class and then hangs it up when they graduate.

[Tugg Speedman]

Greg Gard will NOT get the job even though Bo would like him to.   The administration learned their lesson when Bennett pulled a fast one to get his guy in there.  That was a disaster and won't happen again.  It will be considered a great job and they know it would be foolish not to go out and get the right guy. It won't be Tony Bennett either.

I think Bo rides out next years incoming class and then hangs it up when they graduate.

Is it better than Arkansas?

Buzz to Madison?

[MU B2002]

Crum to Pitino at Louisville is the only one I can think of where a successful coach actually retired and they replaced him with an outsider.  All the other ones that come to mind were either an insider (like Mich. State), or there was an unsuccessful hire before they got back on track (like UNC, and Roy wasn't exactly an outsider either).  I wouldn't count situations where a coach left for another job(like Roy Williams/Self at Kansas).

What about Painter at PUrdue?

[keefe]

What about Painter at PUrdue?

Keady had a Hall of Fame Combover and a good career but he was no Denny Crum.

[The Equalizer]

Small correction -- while Bo has made the program consistently good, I believe Dick Bennett deserves credit for "turning it around."  After starting in 1995 and went to the NCAA multiple times including a Final Four, while UW had only been to the tourney 3 times in 97 years before him (according to wikipedia).

Stu Jackson actually got UW to their first NCAA in 46 years.  One also has to credit Donna Shalala for actually getting Wisconsin to take athletics seriously.

[connie]

The tools on 1250 today guaranteed that Shaka Smart would take over for Bo.  I laughed so hard I almost soiled myself. (I guess there is a reason to stop on 1250--it's an audible laxative.)

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is correct. Bennett turned it around and gave Ryan a Final Four program. Ryan has not equaled that but he runs a solid program, with a level of success similar to MU under Williams. Ryan has not let it slip as did Crean, with the shame of dreadful NITs. What is impressive about Ryan is his consistency. He recruits to a system and gets the most out of his players.

That Bennett Final Four team was some of the most ugly basketball on planet earth, but with the rekindling of Badger football a few years earlier, the state citizenry was on the wagon big time and that also helped.

You make it sound like we were in the NITs when he left, when actually we were on three straight NCAAs and a shoe-in for the fourth with many more coming considering the recruiting classes lined up.  Never let that agenda slow you down.

[Groin_pull]

The tools on 1250 today guaranteed that Shaka Smart would take over for Bo.  I laughed so hard I almost soiled myself. (I guess there is a reason to stop on 1250--it's an audible laxative.)

Who's basement are they broadcasting out of?

[ChicosBailBonds]

The tools on 1250 today guaranteed that Shaka Smart would take over for Bo.  I laughed so hard I almost soiled myself. (I guess there is a reason to stop on 1250--it's an audible laxative.)

He has a Madison connection as he went to high school near Madison.  Got into Harvard, Yale, Brown, etc, but went to Kenyon College.  Smart is just that, Smart.

[4everwarriors]

Don't doubt Smart is smart and who wouldn't want him to coach their program? But, perhaps let's not underestimate the URM factor in some of those elite acceptances.

[Dawson Rental]

Interesting question.  Before Bo (pre-1999) UW was arguably the worst major school basketball program in the country, and maybe the worst ever.  See this link

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=24378.msg271325#msg271325

----

Wisconsin NCAA appearances
1947
1994
1997
1999 to date (14 in a row).

From 1947 to 1998:
Last in the B10 = 6 times
9th in the B10 = 11 times
8th in the B10 = 6 times

23 of 51 years they finished 8 to 10.  You could argue that for this 51 year period, they were the worst program in the B10, worse than Northwestern.

----

With Bo it has been among the best.  The turn around has been astounding and he should be a first ballot college basket hall-of-fame coach.

When he leaves the question is was Wisconsin a "program" or a "coach?"  If is is a program, then they continue on.  See how MU did after Crean left, that's because it is a "program."  

Now if it is a coach, then the program takes a major hit when he leaves.  See Illinois after Self left.

I have no idea if UW is a coach or a program but if they make the wrong hire after Bo, the program could take a big hit and become another permanent middle/lower of the pack program like Illinois.

Duke/K, Gonzaga/Few, Butler/Stevens will all have the same issue.

Are you speaking of the University of Illinois?  The school that is number 9 on the list of most appearances in the AP top 25 poll since 1949 with 442 appearances?  I think that Wisconsin at number 45 on that list with a total of 186 appearances likely aspires to such permanent middle/lower of the pack status.

[GGGG]

Interesting question.  Before Bo (pre-1999) UW was arguably the worst major school basketball program in the country, and maybe the worst ever.

Yes, but the University and its athletic department are completely different from back then.  Almost unrecognizeable.

[Tugg Speedman]

Are you speaking of the University of Illinois?  The school that is number 9 on the list of most appearances in the AP top 25 poll since 1949 with 442 appearances?  I think that Wisconsin at number 45 on that list with a total of 186 appearances likely aspires to such permanent middle/lower of the pack status.

That is not Illinois after Self.  Since then they have been middle to bottom.  Maybe Groce can turn it around, otherwise they are Iowa.

[MUDPT]

I've also heard Gard is a shoe-in for the next coach.  When I mention Smart, most UW fans have no idea who he is.