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Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
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Marquette
Scrimmage
Date/Time: Oct 4, 2025
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Schedule for 2024-25
New Mexico
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tower912

Somebody with ESPN insider will have to get it to explain the methodology, but apparently ESPN has ranked Big East players Player Efficiency Rating  (PER).    The good news is that MU has 9 in the top 100.    The bad news is most are in the lower half.
Gardner (3)
Taylor (33)
JWilson (50)
Cadougan (59)
Otule (76)
Blue (78)
Anderson (81)
Lockett (96)
DWilson (99)

Jake is conspicuous by his absence  ::).     Again, somebody with insider needs to explain their methodology. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MarsupialMadness

I like the intangibles and basketball IQ I see from Lockett.  It's still gonna take some more time for him to mesh with the team/system.  We may not see what he's really made of until midway through the BEast season.  His experience and poise can turn out to be a real assett come tournament time.

Bocephys

Quote from: tower912 on January 02, 2013, 04:18:35 PM
Somebody with ESPN insider will have to get it to explain the methodology, but apparently ESPN has ranked Big East players Player Efficiency Rating  (PER).    The good news is that MU has 9 in the top 100.    The bad news is most are in the lower half.
Gardner (3)
Taylor (33)
JWilson (50)
Cadougan (59)
Otule (76)
Blue (78)
Anderson (81)
Lockett (96)
DWilson (99)

Jake is conspicuous by his absence  ::).     Again, somebody with insider needs to explain their methodology. 

I can't seem to find the rankings you reference here, but here's the overall explanation of PER. 

QuoteThe player efficiency rating (PER) is a rating of a player's per-minute productivity.

To generate PER, I created formulas -- outlined in tortuous detail in my book "Pro Basketball Forecast" -- that return a value for each of a player's accomplishments. That includes positive accomplishments such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls.

Two important things to remember about PER are that it's per-minute and is pace-adjusted.

Because it's a per-minute measure, it allows us to compare, say, Steve Blake and Derek Fisher, even though there is a disparity in their minutes played.

I also adjust each player's rating for his team's pace, so that players on a slow-paced team like Detroit aren't penalized just because their team has fewer possessions than a fast-paced team such as Golden State.

Bear in mind that PER is not the final, once-and-for-all evaluation of a player's accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for defensive specialists -- such as Quinton Ross and Jason Collins -- who don't get many blocks or steals.

What PER can do, however, is summarize a player's statistical accomplishments in a single number. That allows us to unify the disparate data on each player we try to track in our heads (e.g., Corey Maggette: free-throw machine, good rebounder, decent shooter, poor passer, etc.) so that we can move on to evaluating what might be missing from the stats.

I set the league average in PER to 15.00 every season.

Among players with at least 500 minutes in 2010-11, the highest rating was LeBron James' 27.34. The lowest was Stephen Graham's 4.41.

martyconlonontherun

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 02, 2013, 04:06:31 PM
To be fair, +/- and RR aren't the best way to determine a particular player's value.

I like overall +/- because you can see trends but you can't do it for 1-game. 1-game is waaaay to short of a sample and usually just shows he was placed on the court with the starters usually.

ATL MU Warrior

Quote from: MarsupialMadness on January 02, 2013, 04:26:34 PM
I like the intangibles and basketball IQ I see from Lockett.  It's still gonna take some more time for him to mesh with the team/system.  We may not see what he's really made of until midway through the BEast season.  His experience and poise can turn out to be a real assett come tournament time.
I agree.  I think he wins at least one game for us with a clutch play at the end or hitting crucial free throws, etc.

Goose

I agree with the on court ball smarts. I think that it will come in handy before the year is out.

ATL MU Warrior

Quote from: Goose on January 02, 2013, 05:17:11 PM
I agree with the on court ball smarts. I think that it will come in handy before the year is out.
Goose, we agreed on something!  must be the new year!

avid1010

Quote from: Goose on January 02, 2013, 05:17:11 PM
I agree with the on court ball smarts. I think that it will come in handy before the year is out.
i was hoping for this as well, but i haven't seen it play out during a full game yet.  players that are playing smart don't lose their man multiple times in the half court, and they don't let the person they are guarding leak out for easy transition points.  those are plays i have a hard time understanding when much less experienced players make them. 

the question in my mind is how good does he have to be to make it worth the amount of playing time he's getting.  if we end up not making the NCAA tourney, i think there is a fair argument that anderson should have gotten more minutes at the 3 spot this year, but maybe buzz plans to only use him at the 4 with the incoming recruits that we have??

MarquetteDano

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on January 02, 2013, 05:05:43 PM
I like overall +/- because you can see trends but you can't do it for 1-game. 1-game is waaaay to short of a sample and usually just shows he was placed on the court with the starters usually.

In case people were wondering about season average plus/minus:

Gardner +9.8 (ranks 39th in Big East)
Cadougan +7.3 (ranks 52nd)
J. Wilson +6.4 (ranks 58th)
Blue +6.4 (58th)
Lockett +5.8 (ranks 65th)
Anderson +3.3 (ranks 84th)

They are show Top100 in Big East on the site I went.  Not sure Mayo qualifies by number of games yet.

GGGG

Quote from: martyconlonontherun on January 02, 2013, 05:05:43 PM
I like overall +/- because you can see trends but you can't do it for 1-game. 1-game is waaaay to short of a sample and usually just shows he was placed on the court with the starters usually.


Valid point.  I also think we need to go a few games into the BE season to get a true picture.

real chili 83

Quote from: Goose on January 02, 2013, 05:17:11 PM
I agree with the on court ball smarts. I think that it will come in handy before the year is out.

Goose, agree too.

That's two of us that agree with you.  Wooohoooo.  Just gigging you.   ;)

Lockett played his arse off yesterday.  His offensive box score won't turn heads, but I guarantee his effort is respected by his teammates.  Buzz and his staff know what they are doing.  They see something, and play him for a reason.  It will come together. Soon.

Was it last year....where DJO couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, then came alive in the BE season?  Point is.....it's a long season.

He spent a lot of time diving for balls, plus the timely block, and clutch free throws.  Well done.

Marqevans

Watched the overtime again last night.  Lockett played great D and made clutch free throws.  I was surprised he was out there, but I am glad he was.

MerrittsMustache

Quote from: avid1010 on January 02, 2013, 05:25:30 PM
i was hoping for this as well, but i haven't seen it play out during a full game yet.  players that are playing smart don't lose their man multiple times in the half court, and they don't let the person they are guarding leak out for easy transition points.  those are plays i have a hard time understanding when much less experienced players make them. 

the question in my mind is how good does he have to be to make it worth the amount of playing time he's getting.  if we end up not making the NCAA tourney, i think there is a fair argument that anderson should have gotten more minutes at the 3 spot this year, but maybe buzz plans to only use him at the 4 with the incoming recruits that we have??

I've seen this point on here a couple times. It's not necessarily Lockett's responsibility to get back on defense, especially if he takes a shot. Typically, the PG is responsible for thwarting fast break opportunities. If the PG drives or is not out top, it's someone else's job to rotate over and get back. Lockett is an excellent rebounding guard so Buzz may prefer that he crash the boards offensively, which means he's not responsible if the guy he's guarding leaks out to try to get an easy 2. In other words, even if it's technically his man who scores in transition, he may not be his responsibility at that point.

If the man guarding Gardner breaks to the other end as soon as a shot goes up, it's not Ox's job to sprint after him to stop transition points. Someone in the backcourt has that responsibility.

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