"The Big East died when..."

[Dawson Rental]

I don't agree. With Miami, Penn State, BC, a good Syracuse program at the time, that was a solid football conference.  He won two titles without a conference and has not come close since joining the Big East Ten.  They could have dominated the Big East in football for decades.

Fixed.  Like Memphis does (soon to be did) in CUSA basketball, Penn State could have dominated Big East football, and gotten into better bowl games, keeping its football momentum stronger.

[Hoopaloop]

Fixed.

Thank you

[MU82]

Time for the split.

Past time, really.

Big East is totally screwed in the four-team football playoff format. Loss of its best football schools makes it a second-tier football conference, and invitations to all of these far-flung schools will doom it to second-tier basketball conference.

I know there are football TV revenue considerations, but it's time for the hoopsters to make a go of it on our own.

[mug644]

Oh yeah, that too.

Consider me put in my place about Temple, in more ways than one.

[mu03eng]

I don't agree. With Miami, Penn State, BC, a good Syracuse program at the time, that was a solid football conference.  He won two titles without a conference and has not come close since joining the Big Ten.  They could have dominated the Big East in football for decades.

False, PSU was competing for a title in '94 the first year of their Big 10 membership, finished #2 in the polls behind an inferior Nebraska team.  Also ranked top 5 in '99 before falling apart in the last half of the year.  First of a couple of instances why joining the B1G was stupid for Penn State. 

That was forced by the admin for academic reasons had nothing to do with football.  If it had to do with football then the Big East was the play as it gave them access into NC, SC, and Florida some.  The midwest was already locked down as a recruiting base, needed to be opened into the south which B10 did nothing to help.

[Dawson Rental]

Consider me put in my place about Temple, in more ways than one.

Fergetaboutit!  Temple has a unique talent for flying under the radar.

[Dawson Rental]

False, PSU was competing for a title in '94 the first year of their Big 10 membership, finished #2 in the polls behind an inferior Nebraska team.  Also ranked top 5 in '99 before falling apart in the last half of the year.  First of a couple of instances why joining the B1G was stupid for Penn State.  

That was forced by the admin for academic reasons had nothing to do with football.  If it had to do with football then the Big East was the play as it gave them access into NC, SC, and Florida some.  The midwest was already locked down as a recruiting base, needed to be opened into the south which B10 did nothing to help.

I think that you're actually agreeing with Hoopaloop's point here.

[mu03eng]

Time for the split.

Past time, really.

Big East is totally screwed in the four-team football playoff format. Loss of its best football schools makes it a second-tier football conference, and invitations to all of these far-flung schools will doom it to second-tier basketball conference.

I know there are football TV revenue considerations, but it's time for the hoopsters to make a go of it on our own.

Agreed.

Take a look at the available teams again:
Current BE basketball schools: Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Georgetown, Nova, Marquette and DePaul.  There is a lot of tradition there, if you can bring in a Xavier and say a Creighton or something like that you can put together a solid BB conference.  You take that to ESPN with an attractive initial contract to them and they will put the conference on tv a lot.  Plus you make some sort of Big East - ACC challenge and you will drive eyeballs.  Sure it ain't football money but the Big East is going to get screwed in the new playoff format so I'd rather strike out independent of football then lash myself to the sinking carcass that is Big East football.

[mu03eng]

I think that you're actually agreeing with Hoopaloop's point here.

Poor distinguishing on my part, I was disagreeing with the competitive part, but agreeing with the Big East vs Big 10 point.

[MerrittsMustache]

Agreed.

Take a look at the available teams again:
Current BE basketball schools: Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Georgetown, Nova, Marquette and DePaul.  There is a lot of tradition there, if you can bring in a Xavier and say a Creighton or something like that you can put together a solid BB conference.  You take that to ESPN with an attractive initial contract to them and they will put the conference on tv a lot.  Plus you make some sort of Big East - ACC challenge and you will drive eyeballs.  Sure it ain't football money but the Big East is going to get screwed in the new playoff format so I'd rather strike out independent of football then lash myself to the sinking carcass that is Big East football.

I don't think the Big East is going to be making any deals with the ACC any time soon. Besides, the ACC already has the ACC-Big Ten Challenge. Perhaps the new and improved Big East could strike a deal with the Big 12 or Pac-12.

[mu03eng]

I don't think the Big East is going to be making any deals with the ACC any time soon. Besides, the ACC already has the ACC-Big Ten Challenge. Perhaps the new and improved Big East could strike a deal with the Big 12 or Pac-12.

First, to adapt a cliche, money makes strange bedfellows.  Yes there is animosity towards the ACC but if it makes the difference between failure and success of an all basketball league the Big East would do it.

Second, I think we'll see the ACC-B10 challenge go away when the next contract is up.  ESPN has significant tie-ins with the ACC, hosting their network and all, however the Big 10 is a major competitor.  So I could see ESPN wanting to move the challenge to two leagues that they control and therefore get the most bang for their buck.  Not sure of the contract lengths though and how that timing works out.  Plus Big East-ACC has more natural rivalries.

[The Equalizer]

I thought about ND....but decided I don't care what they do.  Current BE basketball schools: Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Georgetown, Nova, Marquette and DePaul.  All have been to a final four in my lifetime.  Notre Dame hasn't.

Well that puts your birthday in the narrow window between Notre Dame's 1978 Final Four appearance and 1979 when DePaul was last in a Final Four.

While you might be technically accurate about Notre Dame not making a Final Four in your lifetime, it seems rather arbitrary to make that your primary point of differentiation between DePaul and Notre Dame. 

Notre Dame has been more successful over the past 20 years, and would arguably add more to a league than would DePaul.

[GGGG]

Well that puts your birthday in the narrow window between Notre Dame's 1978 Final Four appearance and 1979 when DePaul was last in a Final Four.

Oops...

Actually I was born in 1967...forgot about the 1978 Final Four.

[cheebs09]

I think a key could be the new NBC Sports network. I'm reading the ESPN book, and the company grew in part because of their Big East deal. If we could take the new conference and get NBC involved, I think it could be beneficial for both parties.

[77ncaachamps]

As a former McDonald's AA, I look at schools that have great football programs before committing.

[Hoopaloop]

False, PSU was competing for a title in '94 the first year of their Big 10 membership, finished #2 in the polls behind an inferior Nebraska team.  Also ranked top 5 in '99 before falling apart in the last half of the year.  First of a couple of instances why joining the B1G was stupid for Penn State. 

That was forced by the admin for academic reasons had nothing to do with football.  If it had to do with football then the Big East was the play as it gave them access into NC, SC, and Florida some.  The midwest was already locked down as a recruiting base, needed to be opened into the south which B10 did nothing to help.

You are right, they competed for a national title in their first year.  As you stated, that happened in the first year of the Big Ten.  Those players were recruited as an independent and the timing worked out for them.  PSU was also new to most Big Ten teams in terms of schemes, etc, but concede in that first year they were contenders.

[MU82]

Notre Dame has been more successful over the past 20 years, and would arguably add more to a league than would DePaul.

No argument from any intelligent observer. There isn't a conference that would rather have DePaul than Notre Dame, even without ND football.