Weiss: BE Hope

[Dr. Blackheart]

Rips into Pitt and Cuse...offers his historical-based perspective on BE future.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/2011/09/22/2011-09-22_big_east_vows_to_stay_together_as_college_athletic_programs_shuffle_late_dick_ga.html?page=1

Big East football members opted to take a pragmatic view of their future, rather than getting bullied into accepting the empty promises of Elmer Gantry salvation offered by ACC commissioner John Swofford to previous defectors Miami, Boston College and Virginia Tech that are as yet unfulfilled.

Boston College has been swallowed up into an irrelevant abyss in the ACC. Virginia Tech has yet to receive its first NCAA basketball tournament invite and scandal-plagued Miami is still playing before half-empty houses at home.

If West Virginia, South Florida, Cincinnati, Louisville, Connecticut, Rutgers and TCU stay true to their promises, there is a chance the same fate could await Syracuse and Pitt, who jumped into the ACC lifeboat over the weekend, giving up their regional identities and long-standing rivalries for what they felt was a safe haven in this expansion madness. Instead, both could find themselves with a more difficult passage to a BCS football bid and an basketball tournament berth in their new 14-team league.

Syracuse has had one winning season in Big East football during the last six years. Pitt has constantly underachieved in the same conference even though it has access to some of the best prep talent in the country in Western Pennsylvania.

The Big East made both of those schools what they are in basketball today. Syracuse was a regional power that used to look forward to games against St. Bonaventure and Niagara. Pitt was trying to separate itself from Duquesne in its own city.

Both have built national powers by recruiting blue-chip talent from our area.

But if Big East commissioner John Marinatto make good on his threat to force Pitt and Syracuse to honor their contracts and live up to a 27-month window of notification before they leave for another conference, it hard to believe this Big East city, which loves St. John's, would roll out the welcome mat for the Panthers and Orangemen. If the traditional Big East powers refuse to play them once they finally move on, Pitt and the 'Cuse could quickly lose their footprint in the five boroughs.



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/2011/09/22/2011-09-22_big_east_vows_to_stay_together_as_college_athletic_programs_shuffle_late_dick_ga.html#ixzz1YhRngYpY

[muhs03]

Cant really blame the ACC for taking VTech; they never wanted them.

And BC was a middle-of-the-pack BE team as well and were brought to the ACC because the Miami wanted them to come along. As we well know, if you arent a nationally recognized program, you cant overcome bad coaching. BC hasnt had a good bball coach since....Al Skinner? BC football had a very good thing going until they ruined it with their treatment of Tom O'Brien.

[AlumKCof93]

If you were the president of either Syracuse or Pitt, would you have made the move?  If football is the golden goose, I can't say that I blame them.

[ecompt]

Pitt and Syracuse will not draw one extra fan to watch them play ACC football; in fact, they will draw fewer fans, especially if West Virginia drops them. Good riddance to both.

[GGGG]

Well...you could hardly blame Virginia Tech for leaving for the ACC.  Nor would I WVU.  Those fit the profile of the ACC much more than the BE.

[chcsportsfan]

What I find really interesting is how few schools actually make a profit from football.  According to this article on SI.com,

"For example, did you know that out of 332 schools currently competing in the NCAA's Division I, fewer than a dozen have athletic departments that are operating in the black? And that of the 120 programs that comprise the Football Bowl Subdivision, just 14 are profitable?"

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/09/21/Branch.rebuttal/index.html#ixzz1YhrANcmG

This is not about the "University" at all.  Same with the bowl games.  It is about the administration/coaches making more money.  They get bonuses for going to bowl games and their salaries increase with all these tv deals as seen in the SI article last year (I think) regarding the BCS in general.

[MUMac]

Cant really blame the ACC for taking VTech; they never wanted them.

And BC was a middle-of-the-pack BE team as well and were brought to the ACC because the Miami wanted them to come along. As we well know, if you arent a nationally recognized program, you cant overcome bad coaching. BC hasnt had a good bball coach since....Al Skinner? BC football had a very good thing going until they ruined it with their treatment of Tom O'Brien.

Do you mean the treatment of O'Brien or Jagodzinski?  Jags was fired for interviewing for the Jets job and BC has not been the same since.  When they left the BE, they were Co-BE Champs (not exactly middle of the road).  The next two years, they were in the ACC Championship game.  A nice 4 year run from '04 to '07.  Since then, though, they have fallen a bit. 

I am not sure that the move to the ACC has benefited BC, VT, Miami or Fla. State.  Each has fallen since they joined.

[muhs03]

Do you mean the treatment of O'Brien or Jagodzinski?  Jags was fired for interviewing for the Jets job and BC has not been the same since.  When they left the BE, they were Co-BE Champs (not exactly middle of the road).  The next two years, they were in the ACC Championship game.  A nice 4 year run from '04 to '07.  Since then, though, they have fallen a bit. 

I am not sure that the move to the ACC has benefited BC, VT, Miami or Fla. State.  Each has fallen since they joined.

BOTH.

[GGGG]

How has VT fallen?  They have played in four of the six ACC Championship games, winning three of them.  They have been conference champions three of the last four years and have finished in the AP top 20 every year since joining the conference.

[GGGG]

Can you tell me how they treated O'Brien?  Didn't he leave for NC State?  Was he pushed?

[muhs03]

Can you tell me how they treated O'Brien?  Didn't he leave for NC State?  Was he pushed?

I have no idea what the actual problem was between Obrien and the AD (not sure who really knows the full story). From what I recall, he was the lowest paid coach in the ACC despite a lot of success. He asked for a raise and didnt get one. The athletic dept didnt throw any money into marketing and their improved performance went pretty much unnoticed from an attendance standpoint. He got fed up and left overnight. The way in which Obrien left negatively impacted Jags' flirtation with the NFL.

BC blew through two very good coaches.

[muhs03]

Here is a pretty good article that breaks down Tranghese's rant on the radio when this all hit the fan (there is also a link that includes revenue before and after the last ACC's purge of the BE:

http://blogs.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/pitt-redshirt-diaries/29807-michael-tranghese-jack-swarbrick-john-marinatto-sound-off

[MUMac]

How has VT fallen?  They have played in four of the six ACC Championship games, winning three of them.  They have been conference champions three of the last four years and have finished in the AP top 20 every year since joining the conference.

I lumped them in without really investigating, or frankly caring.  You are correct on VT.  I stand by my comment, though, not sure the ACC has been a boon for football programs.

[lab_warrior]

"For example, did you know that out of 332 schools currently competing in the NCAA's Division I, fewer than a dozen have athletic departments that are operating in the black? And that of the 120 programs that comprise the Football Bowl Subdivision, just 14 are profitable?"

Yet another one of THOUSANDS of very appropriate reasons and arguments against the "WE NEED TO START A FOOTBALL TEAM NOW DURRRRR!" crowd that have flocked to the boards recently.

[lab_warrior]

How has VT fallen?  They have played in four of the six ACC Championship games, winning three of them.  They have been conference champions three of the last four years and have finished in the AP top 20 every year since joining the conference.

I think with VT, football isn't the issue.  Their basketball team continually gets screwed over by playing in the ACC, which waters down their SOS/RPI, etc.

[lab_warrior]

Jags was fired for interviewing for the Jets job and BC has not been the same since.

That was a classic case of how SERIOUSLY BC takes itself, and why any non-BC affiliated person who lives in the Boston area gets a good chuckle out of their joke of a football program. 

[Bieberhole69]

That was a classic case of how SERIOUSLY BC takes itself, and why any non-BC affiliated person who lives in the Boston area gets a good chuckle out of their joke of a football program. 

They have a 12 year bowl streak going and do a lot better than most private schools do in football.

[Hards Alumni]

What I find really interesting is how few schools actually make a profit from football.  According to this article on SI.com,

"For example, did you know that out of 332 schools currently competing in the NCAA's Division I, fewer than a dozen have athletic departments that are operating in the black? And that of the 120 programs that comprise the Football Bowl Subdivision, just 14 are profitable?"

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/09/21/Branch.rebuttal/index.html#ixzz1YhrANcmG

This is not about the "University" at all.  Same with the bowl games.  It is about the administration/coaches making more money.  They get bonuses for going to bowl games and their salaries increase with all these tv deals as seen in the SI article last year (I think) regarding the BCS in general.

I tried to make this point in another thread, and it fell on deaf ears then as well.

[Pakuni]

They have a 12 year bowl streak going and do a lot better than most private schools do in football.

Given that about 2/3 of all D-1 teams appear in bowls these days, I'm not sure that's such an accomplishment.
More telling are the names of those bowls ... Kraft Fight Hunger, Emerald, Music City (twice), Champs, Meinke Car Care, MPC Computers, Continental Tire, San Francisco, Motor City, Aloha, Insight.
Their last notable bowl appearance was the 1984 Cotton Bowl when some guy named Flutie was throwing the ball (unless you consider the Hall of Fame/now Outback Bowl of 1992 significant).

[Bieberhole69]

Given that about 2/3 of all D-1 teams appear in bowls these days, I'm not sure that's such an accomplishment.
More telling are the names of those bowls ... Kraft Fight Hunger, Emerald, Music City (twice), Champs, Meinke Car Care, MPC Computers, Continental Tire, San Francisco, Motor City, Aloha, Insight.
Their last notable bowl appearance was the 1984 Cotton Bowl when some guy named Flutie was throwing the ball (unless you consider the Hall of Fame/now Outback Bowl of 1992 significant).

While I agree those bowls aren't much, their streak is still a testament to a winning program.  They also suffer from being a smaller private school and a lack of a traveling fanbase. Othe privates, Syracuse, Duke, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Northwestern, Baylor, to name a few have not had the success they have over the last decade.