With JB, adding to the string, is MU back to being an NBA pipeline?

[HouWarrior]

This mock has JB in 1st round.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jimmy-Butler-6315/

As the lack of this draft depth and number of wild cards, incl. foreign players sinks in with the teams picking...it appears the solid aspects of JB are making him more and more attractive-- he is becoming a dependable safe pick, and after the top 10-15 picks ,few will consider JB a "reach". Congrats to him, ...and to us.....
This pick more than others, is a real credit to our program developing a player to the NBA. In recruiting, kids need to notice what dedicated hard work at MU can lead them toward. If they're 're not a one and done phenom, MU is a great destination..with a growing rep for developing, over 4 years of coaching/BE play, a pipeline of NBAers.
Wade, Deiner, Novak, Wes, Lazar,...JB...this is starting to look like a really nice pattern.
Not since the 70s has MU been feeding the NBA like this.
Are we becoming, once again, an NBA pipeline? We may not be quite there, but its trending well.
Does Jae get drafted next...he is well positioned for an NBA attention grabbing season. His foot speed/reach fouling may have a few doubt he'll pick up NBA speed.

[brewcity77]

Are we becoming, once again, an NBA pipeline? We may not be quite there, but its trending well.
Does Jae get drafted next...he is well positioned for an NBA attention grabbing season. His foot speed/reach fouling may have a few doubt he'll pick up NBA speed.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Jae and DJO both got drafted next year. They may be second rounders, but if DJO doesn't go through a 10-game shooting slump to open the season, he could easily be a 20 ppg guy who shoots 40% from 3. His ability to get to the hoop and score from range would probably be enough for someone to take a flyer on him despite being undersized for the 2. Jae's NBA roots will only help, and like Lazar, he's showing he is willing to play both inside and outside, is a solid rebounder, and can also hit the 3. Size may keep him out of the first round, but I still could see him being picked.

I think the positive for our guys right now is really based largely on Wes. We have a hard-working reputation, so if guys look like they might be fringe draft prospects, teams will take a shot at drafting them because they don't want egg on their face when they miss the next guy like Matthews. Hayward and Butler both fit that pedigree of being drafted maybe a bit higher than initially expected. If Jae and DJO are first or second team all-Big East, which are very possible if they can increase their numbers by a reasonably expected amount, there's no reason they can't hear their names called come next year's NBA draft.

[4everwarriors]

Hardly, but what it does show is Buzz can develop players who aren't Mickey D All-Americans and get them to the point where they have a legit chance to play in the Association.

[MU_Iceman]

It'll be interesting to see how NBA teams view Jae and DJO next year.  The knock on both of them (and this is not likely to change) is that they don't possess the appropriate skill sets to match their size.

Crowder is really a 4 trapped in a small (by NBA standards) 3's body.  He hasn't shown himself to be a good enough ball handler or even necessarily quick enough with the ball in his hands to play the 3 at the next level and he just isn't big enough to play the 4 (strong enough, maybe...but lacking height).  He's a streaky shooter from out too.

DJO is more than capable of scoring in bunches but he's too small to play the 2 in the NBA and he's too turnover prone to play the 1.  There's no question that there's a place for a guy like him in the league (ie. CJ Watson this year with the Bulls), but he's undersized to play his natural position.

They are both going to play both ways and outwork everyone on the floor (just like Wes, Hayward, and Butler), but I worry that their physical limitations coupled with the fact that next year's draft class will be deeper than this years may be a big obstacle.

Obviously I hope I'm wrong though...regardless, they're both VERY GOOD college players and I'm pretty pumped about next year.

But to answer the original question from this thread:  I think that MU is being viewed as a school that develops hard working players with the potential to develop into functional players at the next level...Kudos to Buzz & Co for that...

[GGGG]

I also think that both Crowder and DJO are a little weak defensively at this point.  Defense is what got Matthews and Lazar in...and will eventually get JFB in.  Both Crowder and DJO are at best average defensively.

[MU_Iceman]

I also think that both Crowder and DJO are a little weak defensively at this point.  Defense is what got Matthews and Lazar in...and will eventually get JFB in.  Both Crowder and DJO are at best average defensively.

Agreed (I felt like I was already piling on them too much for their physical limitations so I laid off the defensive side of the ball...haha)

[Clam Crowder]

His first year wasn't DJO regarded as one of the best defenders on the team? This year his defense pretty much  disappeared, but Jae, DJO, and Vander all seem very hungry to be great this year. They constantly are talking of their workouts. Jae will work harder than anyone to make it. I think Jae has the best shot to be drafted, but if DJO starts off on fire, then he will easily make the NBA. No matter what happens this year for MUBB is going to be very exciting.

[MuMark]

Not to nitpick but he has Jimmy in the 2nd round.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

[kmwtrucks]

Chad Ford of Espn is probably the most connected and he has Butler not in the 1st round and does not have him in the last 5 out.  These are his last 3 picks and the next 5.  He just came out with this yesterday.

Despite the fact the draft is only two weeks away, there is still a lot of confusion about who is going where.
"I know who is going [Nos.] 1 and 2," one lottery GM told ESPN.com. "After that, I don't have a clue."

A number of GMs in the lottery are reporting the same thing, but teams are beginning to narrow down the list of who's going where.

In this mock draft we'll not only make an educated guess as to who's going where, but we'll also give you a look at the other possible picks for each team. Here's our most informed take, after talking to numerous NBA team sources, on how the draft might play out.


PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Chicago
(via Miami)

Justin Harper
Position: PF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 228
Age: 21
School: Richmond 
Analysis: Harper was one of the best stretch 4s in college basketball last season. He also has size and is a pretty good athlete. The Bulls need shooting, and Harper should be able to give them some from the perimeter. Charles Jenkins, Tyler Honeycutt and Jeremy Tyler are possibilities here.






PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

San Antonio

Jeremy Tyler
Position: C
Height: 6-11
Weight: 263
Age: 19
Team: Tokyo Apache 
Analysis: The Spurs have done a good job over the years of finding young international players and stashing them overseas for a few years until they're ready. Tyler doesn't quite fit that model. He stashed himself overseas. But the point is he's got tremendous upside for a team willing to be patient with him. Given the strong reaction to Tyler at the pre-draft camp, I'm not sure he lasts this long on the draft board.






PICK TEAM PLAYER VITALS

Chicago


Charles Jenkins
Position: PG
Height: 6-3
Weight: 217
Age: 22
School: Hofstra 
Analysis: The Bulls need scorers in their backcourt and ultimately need to find a backup for Derrick Rose at point guard. Jenkins' ability to play both backcourt positions is intriguing. He is big, strong, a very good shooter and one of the best pure scorers in the draft. He is a real sleeper. Tyler Honeycutt, Nolan Smith and Andrew Goudelock are possibilities here as well.


Next Five In: Tyler Honeycutt, G, UCLA; Nolan Smith, G, Duke; Darius Morris, PG, Michigan; Jordan Williams, F/C, Maryland; Lucas Nogueira, C, Brazil

[HouWarrior]

Not to nitpick but he has Jimmy in the 2nd round.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

You are sooo right, and I am sorry, ..the 24th pick was on another site or two before the one I linked. I'd re-look,find and post it, but its easier just to say I was full of BS...as I truly am. lol

[HouWarrior]

Not to nitpick but he has Jimmy in the 2nd round.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

Here is the 1st round, overall 24th pick projection on JB...I meant to post,this one originally...thanks for the fact check, tho.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/the_draft/FullMockDraft.asp

[MuMark]

the Hoopswporld site has little credibility if they don't have Brooks in the first round.

No way he falls to the 2nd round. He is shooting up draft boards according to all the insiders.

[HouWarrior]

Pipelines, alltime......

Here is the list of Schools with 20 or more NBA picks, (in the first or second round only, ie current format ) in  history.....1949, to date.

School l   1st Rd 2nd Rd Total .

UCLA        31      20        51  
.
North Carolina  36  10      46  
.
Indiana        20 22          42  
.
Duke  27 13                   40  
.
Arizona 14 21                 35  
.
Kentucky  23 12              35
.
Louisville  19 16               35
.
Kansas      21 12              33  
.
St. John's 15 17               32  
.
Maryland 16 15                 31 .

Syracuse  15 13              28 .

Illinois 14 13                   27
.
Georgia Tech16 10            26
.
Michigan 19 7                  26  
.
Michigan State 16 10         26  
.
North Carolina State  14 12 26  
.
Notre Dame  20 6              26  
.
Alabama  14 11                 25  
.
LSU           13 12              25  
               
.
Ohio State    18 7             25  
.
Cincinnati12 12                 24
.
Minnesota  18 6                24  
.
Villanova   10 12               22  

.Marquette      7    15         22  

Connecticut  14 7              21 .

Georgetown  11 10             21 .

DePaul  11 9                     20  
.
Houston  11 9                   20  
.

[bamamarquettefan]

I also think that both Crowder and DJO are a little weak defensively at this point.  Defense is what got Matthews and Lazar in...and will eventually get JFB in.  Both Crowder and DJO are at best average defensively.

I completely agree on DJO, thought guys just went by him at will.  Hope the incredible steal he had to start the UConn play gets him going.  i felt like Crowder was actually pretty solid on defense, and certainly the steals, blocked shots and defensive rebounding is excellent.

I know people felt like Lazar didn't have a big year, but obviously he was in a terrible situation in the number of similar players in front of him.  However, even with limited minutes he put in 3.8 ppg, and this is the NBA.  That's over twice what Novak did his first year, and he has put together a nice run in the the league.  For me, if you just make the NBA and make a big of a contribution that is awesome - some of our fans may be spoiled by Wade and Matthews recently, but only a few have ever averaged double figures, and Lazar actually has the 20th highest NBA scoring average of any Marquette player ever even as scarce as minutes have been:

First name   NBA PPG
Dwyane   Wade   25.4
George   Thompson   18.6
Maurice   Lucas   14.4
Wesley   Matthews   12.6
Jim   Chones   12.3
Don   Kojis   12.2 (impressive for era)
Glen (Doc)   Rivers   10.9
Earl   Tatum   9.6
Larry   McNeil   8.5
Brian   Brunkhorst   8.3
Alfred (Butch)   Lee   8.1
Chris   Crawford   6.6
Jerome   Whitehead   6.5
Dean   Meminger   6.1
Bob   Lackey   5.8
Tony   Smith   5.5
Travis   Diener   4.8
Lloyd   Walton   4.2
Steve   Novak   4
Lazar   Hayward   3.8
Maurice (Bo)   Ellis   3.6
Sam   Worthen   3.5
Michael   Wilson   3.4
Gene   Berce   3.3
Jim   McIlvaine   2.7
Bernard   Toone   2.4
Allie   McGuire   2
Amal   McCaskill   1.8
Tom   Copa   1.5
Joe   Thomas   1.4

[Hards Alumni]

Crowder was as out of position about half as much as Erik Williams was with about 4x the minutes.  Either he was fouling or a step slow on the help.  Crowder was not strong defensively last year.

[bamamarquettefan]

Crowder was as out of position about half as much as Erik Williams was with about 4x the minutes.  Either he was fouling or a step slow on the help.  Crowder was not strong defensively last year.

You probably have a better eye for whose fault our numerous rotation issues were last year, and I'm not putting that in teal, I just really don't have a good eye for the backside of the defense and beyond realizing someone screwed up, I often miss who it was.

On the fouls though, it did seem to me that Crowder got a lot of strips underneath with quick hands (to some degree like Hayward did the year before), and was very strong at going up to contest shots.  I thought both of these were reflected in his outstanding steal and blocked shots numbers, but also resulted in fouls when he got a piece of the hand or other.  I didn't perceive his fouls coming from being slow, as it seemed to me the guys getting beaten were DJO and Junior on quick first steps, whereas Buycks and Blue seemed to be able to stop the initial step.

On the defensive stats we can measure, he was one of the few guys in the country who was in the top 10% of all players in all three defensive stats; defensive rebounding, steals and blocked shots.  He was also tops on the team in steal percentage and defensive rebounding percentage, and 2nd only to Otule in blocked shot percentage.

But as I pointed out in an earlier post, we only measure 22% of the things that happen on defense, so obviously if he was below average at the 78% of things that are not measured on defense, then he may have been just an average defensive player.

[MerrittsMustache]

Crowder is really a 4 trapped in a small (by NBA standards) 3's body.  He hasn't shown himself to be a good enough ball handler or even necessarily quick enough with the ball in his hands to play the 3 at the next level and he just isn't big enough to play the 4 (strong enough, maybe...but lacking height).  He's a streaky shooter from out too.

All of those things could have been said about Lazar and he ended up being a 1st Round pick. You just never know.

While Jae did struggle defensively at times last season, he was playing a new position against competition that was bigger, stronger, faster and more athletic than he had ever played against. I expect he will be much improved on the defensive end this season. (By "expect," I mean "really, really hope")

[RawdogDX]

Here is the list of Schools with 20 or more NBA picks, (in the first or second round only, ie current format ) in  history.....1949, to date.

I think this list would be more meaningful if it was post ABA-NBA Merger.

[HouWarrior]

I think this list would be more meaningful if it was post ABA-NBA Merger.

Sorry, I looked for one but did not find it---if you have one please post it.

[RawdogDX]

Sorry, I looked for one but did not find it---if have one please post it.

Nah,  I don't one either.  But I did find something that will be getting it's own topic.

[SaveOD238]

I know that with the draft later this week that the big topic is Jimmy's potential to get drafted, but I'm curious about what might happen to Jerel McNeal this summer.  Is he tied into the Hornets system or does the D-League not work like minor league baseball?  Does he have a shot to make the Hornets or anyone else's roster?

If Jimmy gets drafted, and Jerel makes a roster we're looking at 5 Marquette players in the league, maybe 6 if Novak finds a team willing to let him sit at the end of the bench.  When was the last time there were that many active NBA-ers from MU?

[HouWarrior]

I know that with the draft later this week that the big topic is Jimmy's potential to get drafted, but I'm curious about what might happen to Jerel McNeal this summer.  Is he tied into the Hornets system or does the D-League not work like minor league baseball?  Does he have a shot to make the Hornets or anyone else's roster?

If Jimmy gets drafted, and Jerel makes a roster we're looking at 5 Marquette players in the league, maybe 6 if Novak finds a team willing to let him sit at the end of the bench.  When was the last time there were that many active NBA-ers from MU?

Jerel had a 10 day contract...but he  was pulled up off the NBDL Vipers team...affiliated with our Htown Rockets. He'll likely be in Rockets preseason camp...but he wont be "rostered" and he'll end up eligible to be grabbed by any team with a roster spot open.

Here is an example of how the new -2010-rules work:

...."In accordance with the NBA, the NBA Development League will implement a rule change with regard to how D-League rosters are assembled. Beginning this season, up to three players cut last from the roster of an NBA team before the D-League Draft will be allocated to that team's D-League affiliate provided they sign the standard D-League contract.

Let's use the Kings as an example. Say Marcus Landry, Donald Sloan and J.R. Giddens are the final three cuts from the Kings' training camp roster. Let's say all three sign D-League contracts instead of chasing money in Europe or Asia. The Kings could allocate those three players to the Reno Bighorns, where the Kings (theoretically) have a relationship with the coaching staff and management.

Basically, the players could be kept "in the program" and watched more closely (literally speaking, in our case).



It's not a true farm system element, though, in that the Kings wouldn't have exclusive call-up rights. Any NBA team with less than 15 players could offer a call-up. So it's not quite like having 18 roster spots -- if you really really want a prospect on your team, you need to keep him on your 15-man roster at the end of training camp.

Will this help the Kings? Not until the Kings get serious about the D-League, something I expect to happen shortly after Geoff Petrie retires. Seriously, Petrie has shown almost no interest in seriously using the D-League, and he's a man of his ways when it comes to team management (ask Jason Levien). The blame isn't all Petrie's -- the owners haven't ponied up to buy the Bighorns, or start an expansion team closer to Sacramento (Stockton?), or get involved with the Bighorns in a hybrid format. (Of course, why would the Maloofs do any of those things without pressure from Petrie to do so?)

The teams that will really benefit from this rule change are the teams that run their own D-League affiliates. Teams like Houston, San Antonio and Oklahoma City have already done well for themselves in using the D-League, and this helps them even more....."