If Cincinnati Was Depressing, Someone Please Talk Me Off The Ledge After SH

[dgies9156]

I've waited 24 hours to cool down after the Seton Hall loss. Anything I posted last night, or this morning, would have been something I regretted. A few extra prayers at Mass for peace and serenity helped.

That said, here we go.

1)   Something is terribly wrong with the program. You can't beat the number 7 team in the US, beat West Virginia and beat UConn on the road and then lose to Seton Hall in a "must win." The inconsistency from game to game and even within a game (see Louisville, University of) is confounding and goes back to leadership on the court and off. There doesn't seem to be any, save for Jimmy Butler, on this team. No one wants to take charge!

2)   It is Buzz's fault! We have talent and basketball isn't rocket science. I like Buzz a lot, but if a touted player doesn't know the offense; if the team can't break a mediocre press; and, if a team can't figure out a 2-3 zone after having every team it played, throw up a 2-3 zone, then somehow, Buzz isn't getting through. We're not losing because we're less talented ... heck until Saturday, we have been "in" every game we played ... we're losing because we're sloppy. Because the offense and the plays don't fit the situation and because our players seem to lack the courage "to jam it down their throats." Tell me why Erik Williams "still doesn't get it." He was a very highly touted recruit from Mobile and by all measures, he should be starting. Something is WAY wrong in player development and readiness and if we don't deal with this one quickly, Vander Blue (probably the best recruit since DWade) is out the door.

3)   Do We Have Rick Majerus Part 2? Rick Majerus was a talented coach who led the Utah Utes to the Final Four. He was probably two young, two green and two under pressure to be a good coach at Marquette at the time he was hired. He did some time in the NBA and then coached Ball State before hitting it big. I'm beginning to worry that Buzz is another Majerus. Buzz's recruits were better than Majerus', but I think Majerus was probably a better bench coach.

4)   Solving the Problem: Buzz needs his "Hank". St. John's has Gene Keady on the bench supporting Steve Lavin. Is there a very good, semi-retired head coach out there who wants to come in and assist for a few years? A mentor who can assist in the nuts and bolts and help get a team ready to play. Digger Phelps, you wanna come back for a few years?

5)   Our expectations: My generation of Marquette fan in particular has come under criticism for its seemingly unrealistic expectations. We know what it is like to be a Top 10 team. We know from our own experience what having that Top 10 team does for the university's visibility and its ability to grab the attention of a broad range of high-school students. If we want to slip back academically and have most of our students come from Catholic High Schools whose geographic diversity ranges from Green Bay to Flossmoor, keep it up and let the team go to a very warm place.  But, if you want to grab attention and at least expose the good things about Marquette to a diverse and intriguing student body, then somebody needs to realize we regularly ought to be in the Top 25. "We Are Marquette" needs to mean something in EVERYTHING we do, including basketball!

[flash]

I think you're overeacting a little bit.  The Big East is a grind and 10 wins is not an easy thing to do 9-9 is very respectable.  This is the first year since we have been in the Big East that we have not gotten to 10 wins, I think Pittsburgh is the only school to get 10 wins every year since the merger. Please also keep in mind the season is far from over, and there are still games left to be played, so relax, take a chill pill, and be optomistic because we are going to beat Providence and we are going to make the NCAA Tournament. 

[mugrad2006]

3)   Do We Have Rick Majerus Part 2? Rick Majerus was a talented coach who led the Utah Utes to the Final Four. He was probably two young, two green and two under pressure to be a good coach at Marquette at the time he was hired. He did some time in the NBA and then coached Ball State before hitting it big. I'm beginning to worry that Buzz is another Majerus. Buzz's recruits were better than Majerus', but I think Majerus was probably a better bench coach.

...

If we want to slip back academically and have most of our students come from Catholic High Schools whose geographic diversity ranges from Green Bay to Flossmoor, keep it up and let the team go to a very warm place.  

I think the academically challenged kids from Green Bay and Flossmoor still know how to use the word "too" properly.

too http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/too

Maybe next time let that hangover wear off a little more before going on a grammatically challenged rant.

[war1980rior]

I've waited 24 hours to cool down after the Seton Hall loss. Anything I posted last night, or this morning, would have been something I regretted. A few extra prayers at Mass for peace and serenity helped.

That said, here we go.

1)   Something is terribly wrong with the program. You can't beat the number 7 team in the US, beat West Virginia and beat UConn on the road and then lose to Seton Hall in a "must win." The inconsistency from game to game and even within a game (see Louisville, University of) is confounding and goes back to leadership on the court and off. There doesn't seem to be any, save for Jimmy Butler, on this team. No one wants to take charge!

2)   It is Buzz's fault! We have talent and basketball isn't rocket science. I like Buzz a lot, but if a touted player doesn't know the offense; if the team can't break a mediocre press; and, if a team can't figure out a 2-3 zone after having every team it played, throw up a 2-3 zone, then somehow, Buzz isn't getting through. We're not losing because we're less talented ... heck until Saturday, we have been "in" every game we played ... we're losing because we're sloppy. Because the offense and the plays don't fit the situation and because our players seem to lack the courage "to jam it down their throats." Tell me why Erik Williams "still doesn't get it." He was a very highly touted recruit from Mobile and by all measures, he should be starting. Something is WAY wrong in player development and readiness and if we don't deal with this one quickly, Vander Blue (probably the best recruit since DWade) is out the door.

3)   Do We Have Rick Majerus Part 2? Rick Majerus was a talented coach who led the Utah Utes to the Final Four. He was probably two young, two green and two under pressure to be a good coach at Marquette at the time he was hired. He did some time in the NBA and then coached Ball State before hitting it big. I'm beginning to worry that Buzz is another Majerus. Buzz's recruits were better than Majerus', but I think Majerus was probably a better bench coach.

4)   Solving the Problem: Buzz needs his "Hank". St. John's has Gene Keady on the bench supporting Steve Lavin. Is there a very good, semi-retired head coach out there who wants to come in and assist for a few years? A mentor who can assist in the nuts and bolts and help get a team ready to play. Digger Phelps, you wanna come back for a few years?

5)   Our expectations: My generation of Marquette fan in particular has come under criticism for its seemingly unrealistic expectations. We know what it is like to be a Top 10 team. We know from our own experience what having that Top 10 team does for the university's visibility and its ability to grab the attention of a broad range of high-school students. If we want to slip back academically and have most of our students come from Catholic High Schools whose geographic diversity ranges from Green Bay to Flossmoor, keep it up and let the team go to a very warm place.  But, if you want to grab attention and at least expose the good things about Marquette to a diverse and intriguing student body, then somebody needs to realize we regularly ought to be in the Top 25. "We Are Marquette" needs to mean something in EVERYTHING we do, including basketball!

Sorry, but I'm not going to talk you off the ledge.  I'll probably ask you to take one step forward for your "superb support" of our team, howver.

The best thing you can do is relax.  It's been a long and grinding season for a team that was never supposed to amount to anything other than 11 or 12 wins for our opponents in the BE.  Overall, these guys have provided a lot of entertainment for us with their sweat and pain.  They'll get more wins this season, but need fans to support them. 

I would think it's very tough to get a team with this makeup to gel.  That was obvious to me early on, but they did seem to come together much better as the season went on.  To me, they looked a little worn out by the end, but should be ready for the first tournament (of two) they will play in.

Enjoy what's left of the ride!  (or take one step forward so we don't have to read another negative post)

[marquette99]

You do realize seton hall was favored right?  Or that they had beaten st johns worst than they beat us, right? You need to look at any teams results for the entire year - most play way over their heads 5 times and lay an egg 5 times.

This team is not wildly inconsistent by an objective measure.

The cincy loss was actually much worse than the seton hall loss - it was at home and we were a 5-point favorite.

Seton hall has been a tournament level team since hazell returned.

The one part of your post that made sense was the majeris analogy.  If unrealistic fans don't realize what we have with buzz they could chase him off like majeris. Once he left he won at least one tourney game in 11 of 13 seasons.

With mu as one of only 11 teams in the country to have made the dance 5 years in a row, our only question now is whether buzz is going to have his big success here or somewhere else, and what kind of coach are we going to get next if fans don't believe 6 straight tourney bids is good enough.

[brewcity77]

I'll do what I can to talk you down...

1) I agree completely in regards to leadership. We expected JFB to take that role this year, but he has seemed hesitant to grab the reins. In my opinion, Crowder will take it next year. He's seemed close to grabbing the team by the scruff of the neck this year, but defers that role to Butler because of his experience. Next year, with no Butler to block him, Jae can emerge as a true leader. If it's not him, Jamil Wilson is a helluva cheerleader on the sideline, and likely wouldn't feel intimidated by Jae's presence as he's technically been here even longer (Jae arrived late while finishing classes at Howard).

2) I think that the simple answer of it being "Buzz's fault" is probably correct, and my guess is he'd agree with that as well. But let's not forget that Buzz had two empty recruiting classes. Yes, it is Buzz's responsibility to teach his system, but he has to teach it to everyone. It's not like he's got experienced heads that know the ropes. Even our juniors and seniors for the most part only have 1-2 years in the system and haven't been here any longer than guys like Williams. This is why I think we need to give Buzz time. That, and he's still a young head coach. Because of all the JUCOs, our team is relatively inexperienced, and our coach is also relatively inexperienced. He's up against the likes of Calhoun, Pitino, Boeheim, and Huggins, all nationally recognized, and also guys like Wright and Dixon that have been in the conference enough to earn respect from the refs. Give Buzz a few years to establish himself and learn his craft and I think he'll be fine. It's easy (and mostly accurate) to point the finger right now, but he has to build some consistency.

3) Is it possible that Buzz flames out here after 5 years, bounces around a bit, and ends up highly successful elsewhere? Absolutely. That's why I feel we should give him some time. But what do I know, I'm 34. Not old enough to feel like I need them to win now or I'll never see it, not young enough to feel the immediacy that a current student would feel. If they don't start figuring it out once Vander and Wilson are seniors, I say we think about looking elsewhere. But for now, I think Buzz has earned one mediocre season, especially when you consider that the season isn't yet done and he's still likely going to put us into the NCAAs.

4) I agree. It'd be great if we could get Billy Gillespie to spend a season or two as Buzz's right-hand man. I definitely don't think we'd get Digger. Something tells me he might feel a bit of a conflict of interest

5) I do feel that our current expectations are too high, which is why I try to preach patience. I think that right now, Buzz is trying to build a continuity that will allow his teams to regularly be in the top 15-25. If he can do that, it's a start. As long as we get there in the next 2-3 years, I'm all for keeping him around. And then he can build on that. Give him an extension, and maybe 7-10 years from now, we can be a team perennially in the top 5-15 in the country, with the occasional top 5 ranking, and the occasional fall outside the rankings, but usually always there.

It's easy to be kneejerk after one bad week, but we are also just one week removed from a 3-game winning streak, our best of the conference season. If Buzz can win a couple in the Big East tournament and at least keep it close against Louisville, we'll go in to the NCAAs with our confidence renewed and possibly a seeding that sets us up for a Sweet 16 run this year. Maybe we get a 10 or 11 seed, draw Utah State, and follow it up by facing a Florida team that isn't much better defensively than we are (Or BYU, San Diego State, or whatever team you think we could beat).

More likely, we get bounced the first weekend. But before we get over-reactive, let's bear in mind two things: first, the season isn't done, and second, there's years left on Buzz's contract, and he's at least earned the right to see those out.

[leever]

I can only hope that the Digger Phelps reference should have beenin teal!

It's Notre Dame!  It's Notre Dame!

[tower912]

Nah, go ahead and jump (thank you, David Lee Roth).    Buzz is coaching the same stuff he coached a year ago, but with different players.    Crowder isn't Lazar, Junior and Vander can't hit shots like Mo and Cubi.    A year ago, DJO would catch the ball either wide open or with a recovering defender running at him.   He would either shoot or go past the recovering defender and then shoot or hit an even more open 3 pt shooter.    This year, he has to make decisions.    Right now, not a strength.     I can't say why EWill doesn't get it.   Only the team knows that.   But his HS coach did warn us that his weakness was m2m defense against someone his own size.    DG never had to guard anyone m2m either.    I'm not saying Buzz is blameless.   But he isn't exponentially more stupid than he was a year ago.   Focus on the good.   How much have Otule and Junior improved from a year ago?   When he remembers how to shoot and adds a little muscle, how good can Blue be?     The rest of this season will be determined by how well DB and DJO play.    Next year, our success will be determined by whether or not somebody accepts the leadership mantle that hasn't been seized this year.