Newbill v DePaul and Walter Pitchford, Which Is Worse?

[Tugg Speedman]

Since many think Buzz was wrong, consider the opposite and what is happening to Walter Pitchford at DePaul

DePaul refuses to let him out of his NLI.  If the NLI is so sacrosanct, is DePaul correct in forcing him to attend and play for DePaul?  He signed it, its a contract and contract law applies!

Anticipating some of the answers, you believe that its OK to force the coach/school to abide by the NLI but not the player.  To be consistent, those that think Buzz was wrong must think the Oliver Purnell (DePaul's HC) is correct.

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http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/07/01/depauls-pitchford-appeals-for-release/#more-36251


Unable to obtain a release from his scholarship to DePaul, Walter Pitchford Jr., a 6-10 forward/center from Grand Rapids, Mich., has appealed to the NCAA to obtain one.

"Walter applied to the NCAA for the appeal," his father, Walter Pitchford Sr, said in an exclusive interview. "I believe the NCAA told him that it will be 30 days before they will be able to take a look at it."

DePaul coach Oliver Purnell and team spokesman Greg Greenwell did not answer phonecalls to their offices Thursday seeking comment.

ZAGSBLOG.com wrote about Pitchford's desire to be released May 29.

At that time, Pitchford Jr. said he wanted out due to the coaching change that brought in Purnell as the new coach and also because of concerns about crime in the Chicago area.

In response, DePaul issued the following statement via email June 2.
"Despite recent media reports of Walter Pitchford being released from the National Letter of Intent he signed in November 2009, DePaul University is committed to Walter and is looking forward to him joining the program for the 2010-11 season. Walter showed nothing but enthusiasm to attend DePaul University throughout the recruiting process and since he signed the NLI to join the men's basketball program. At this time, the athletics department does not intend to grant the release, and has notified the NLI Steering Committee as its provisions require."

Pitchford Sr. previously said he had been told directly by DePaul AD Jean Lenti Ponsetto "that Walter would be granted a release and she said that she had discussed it with the president of the school [Rev. Dennis H. Holtschneider]."

Pitchford Sr. said the family hasn't heard from DePaul since the statement was issued nearly a month ago.

"If the two of them [Ponsetto and Holtschneider] have said that they would release Walter, then it obviously falls on Coach Purnell at this point," Pitchford Sr. said. "And that's even more disturbing because I don't understand how Coach Purnell got hired and he didn't even come to see Walter.

"He went to visit all the recruits and didn't come to see Walter. That's not right, especially because we live closest to DePaul. We're only 200 miles away. He could've drove here, like Coach [Jerry] Wainwright did."

[bilsu]

DePaul is trying to enforce a contract and Mu is trying to void one. MU is worse.

[Tugg Speedman]

So MU made a mistake two years ago and should have forced TY Taylor to honor his NLI?

[muguru]

DePaul is trying to enforce a contract and Mu is trying to void one. MU is worse.

For the last time....IT WAS NOT A CONTRACT. In order for it to have been a contract, DJ Newbill NEEDED to be accepted as a student at Marquette first. He never was because he never sent in his application. Therefore the LOI is NON BINDING.

Why is this so hard for some to understand??

[bma725]

For the last time....IT WAS NOT A CONTRACT. In order for it to have been a contract, DJ Newbill NEEDED to be accepted as a student at Marquette first. He never was because he never sent in his application. Therefore the LOI is NON BINDING.

Why is this so hard for some to understand??

Because it's not true yet.  According to the provisions of the letter of intent he has until September 1st to send in the application and determine admissions status.  If he doesn't send it in by that point, then it's not binding.  But otherwise it is still binding until he fails to meet the deadline or is released.

[muguru]

Because it's not true yet.  According to the provisions of the letter of intent he has until September 1st to send in the application and determine admissions status.  If he doesn't send it in by that point, then it's not binding.  But otherwise it is still binding until he fails to meet the deadline or is released.

But as a Basketball player he needed/was required to attend summer school which starts this week. In order to do that, he needed to be a Marquette student correct??

[Pakuni]

Because it's not true yet.  According to the provisions of the letter of intent he has until September 1st to send in the application and determine admissions status.  If he doesn't send it in by that point, then it's not binding.  But otherwise it is still binding until he fails to meet the deadline or is released.

Not exactly.
As of this moment, the contract is not binding. The contract becomes binding only if certain conditions are met, most notably DJ Newbill qualifying under NCAA standards AND Marquette admitting him to the university.
As of right now, at least one of those conditions has not been met. Therefore, it's not binding, and, unless he plans to attend Marquette as a regular student (i.e. get accepted, pay tuition) it likely never will be.

[muguru]

Not exactly.
As of this moment, the contract is not binding. The contract becomes binding only if certain conditions are met, most notably DJ Newbill qualifying under NCAA standards AND Marquette admitting him to the university.
As of right now, at least one of those conditions has not been met. Therefore, it's not binding, and, unless he plans to attend Marquette as a regular student (i.e. get accepted, pay tuition) it likely never will be.

EXACTLY my point. This whole thing is a NON issue.

[bma725]

Not exactly.
As of this moment, the contract is not binding. The contract becomes binding only if certain conditions are met, most notably DJ Newbill qualifying under NCAA standards AND Marquette admitting him to the university.
As of right now, at least one of those conditions has not been met. Therefore, it's not binding, and, unless he plans to attend Marquette as a regular student (i.e. get accepted, pay tuition) it likely never will be.

Except it doesn't work like that.  The LOI between the school and player is considered binding by the CAA and NCAA until the conditions are proven not to be met by the deadline at which time it becomes not binding, rather than becoming binding once the conditions are met.  That's why the recruiting ban goes into effect upon signature, that's why the coach is finally allowed to comment on the player upon signature, that's why a release is needed once it is signed....not once the party or parties have met all the qualifications.

[bamamarquettefan]

Thank you for bringing up the Taylor example.  I guess it's logical to say we should have taken the hit and made Taylor play here even unhappy because he was such a talent.

[bma725]

But as a Basketball player he needed/was required to attend summer school which starts this week. In order to do that, he needed to be a Marquette student correct??

That would be a no. Marquette allows students that would not normally be admitted and have not yet been admitted to Marquette to take summer classes.  You don't actually have to attend/plan on attending MU to enroll in summer school.  Further, not all basketball players enroll in the summer sessions.

[Pakuni]

Except it doesn't work like that.  The LOI between the school and player is considered binding by the CAA and NCAA until the conditions are proven not to be met by the deadline at which time it becomes not binding, rather than becoming binding once the conditions are met.  That's why the recruiting ban goes into effect upon signature, that's why the coach is finally allowed to comment on the player upon signature, that's why a release is needed once it is signed....not once the party or parties have met all the qualifications.

Actually, it works exactly as I stated.
Either that, of the NCAA is giving out inaccurate information about its own processes.

If you read about the National Letter of Intent (link included) it specifically states that the recruiting ban and the guarantee of a scholarship go into effect at different times. The recuiting ban takes place after signing, the guarantee of a scholarship takes place after admission and qualification.
It's right there, in black and white, plain as day.

Pursuant to the terms of the National Letter of Intent program, participating institutions agree to provide athletics financial aid for one academic year to the student-athlete, provided he/she is admitted to the institution and is eligible for financial aid under NCAA rules. An important provision of the National Letter of Intent program is a recruiting prohibition applied after a prospective student-athlete signs a Letter of Intent. This prohibition requires participating institutions to cease recruitment of a prospective student-athlete once a National Letter of Intent is signed with another institution.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/nli/NLI/About+the+NLI/

As you can see, the recruiting ban take place after signing. The scholarship guarantee takes place after admission and qualification.
The only way to argue against this is to argue that the NCAA is giving out inaccurate information.

[bma725]

You're looking at the wrong language. 

a. Admissions Requirement.  This NLI shall be declared null and void if the institution named in this document notifies me in writing that I have been denied admission or, by the opening day of classes in fall 2010, has failed to provide me with written notice of admission, provided I have submitted a complete admission application.  It is my obligation to provide, by request, my academic records and an application for admission to the signing institution.  If I fail to submit the necessary academic credentials and/or application to determine an admission decision prior to September 1, the NLI shall be declared null and void.

Based upon everything we know at this point, the agreement was still binding pursuant to him meeting those requirements.  MU had not provided written notice that he was not yet admitted to the school, and he still had plenty of time before the deadline(s) per NLI rules.

[Pakuni]

You're looking at the wrong language. 

Based upon everything we know at this point, the agreement was still binding pursuant to him meeting those requirements.  MU had not provided written notice that he was not yet admitted to the school, and he still had plenty of time before the deadline(s) per NLI rules.

Actually, I don't think I am.
It seems you're just focusing on one particular clause - that containing the Sept. 1 deadline - but ignoring the first portion of the requirement. That portion states "This NLI shall be declared null and void if the institution named in this document notifies me in writing that I have been denied admission or, by the opening day of classes in fall 2010, has failed to provide me with written notice of admission." As you can see, this is the case whether or not the student applies by a certain date.
It is true that the NLI can be delcared null and void if the applicant does not mee the Sept. 1 deadline. But is is also true that the NLI can be delcared null and void if the university either notifies the prospective student that he/she has been denied admission or fails to provide written notice of admission.

[ChicosBailBonds]

But as a Basketball player he needed/was required to attend summer school which starts this week. In order to do that, he needed to be a Marquette student correct??

You do not need to attend Summer school to be a basketball player at Marquette.  It is not a requirement.

[bma725]

Actually, I don't think I am.
It seems you're just focusing on one particular clause - that containing the Sept. 1 deadline - but ignoring the first portion of the requirement. That portion states "This NLI shall be declared null and void if the institution named in this document notifies me in writing that I have been denied admission or, by the opening day of classes in fall 2010, has failed to provide me with written notice of admission." As you can see, this is the case whether or not the student applies by a certain date.
It is true that the NLI can be delcared null and void if the applicant does not mee the Sept. 1 deadline. But is is also true that the NLI can be delcared null and void if the university either notifies the prospective student that he/she has been denied admission or fails to provide written notice of admission.

Not ignoring it all, it's just not applicable here.  He hadn't yet turned in the application, therefore they couldn't have denied his admission or provided a written notice of admission yet.  Further, they have to provide written notice of the denial of admission, which based on all the facts out there now, they didn't do.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Not ignoring it all, it's just not applicable here.  He hadn't yet turned in the application, therefore they couldn't have denied his admission or provided a written notice of admission yet.  Further, they have to provide written notice of the denial of admission, which based on all the facts out there now, they didn't do.

Just to note, though, in all this...no application, no transcripts, no free summer session as financial aid needs to be approved--and an app., transcripts, essay are required for that.  So if a student-athlete is intending to go to summer school and he/she has not filled out the paperwork, he/she will be paying their own way.

Back to speculating about those reasons as to why the paperwork hadn't been filed with MU...of which, I have no theory, just more questions that are really only between MU and DJ and his family.  In any regard, it is a shame.

[Pakuni]

Walter Pitchford is a free man.
Or at least will be soon.


http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/07/11/pitchford-6-10-depaul-recruit-gets-release/

[Dawson Rental]

Walter Pitchford is a free man.
Or at least will be soon.


http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/07/11/pitchford-6-10-depaul-recruit-gets-release/

Hey AnotherMU84,
I think its time for you to start a thread with a poll about who we should buzzcut if we successfully recruit this kid.

[MarquetteDano]

Unfortunately, I would say ours is worse at this point.  Noticed this website.  Even though I didn't agree with the way Buzz handled things, this site is overly harsh I would say....

http://oversigning.com/testing/index.php/2010/06/30/marquette-screws-d-j-newbill-via-oversigning/

To the site's point, however, stop the oversigning.

[reinko]

Wonder what AJ from Deadspin is cooking up here....

http://deadspin.com/5585974/if-anyone-went-to-depaul-university-please-contact-the-i+team?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+deadspin/full+(Deadspin)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

Nice!

http://deadspin.com/5586072/the-search-for-americas-dumbest-student+athlete-starts-now?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+deadspin/full+(Deadspin)&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

[TomW1365]

DePaul grants Walter Pitchford LOI release....

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=5374568

[Tugg Speedman]

Hey AnotherMU84,
I think its time for you to start a thread with a poll about who we should buzzcut if we successfully recruit this kid.

I thought about it but the answer appears to be Reggie Smith