Why did MU turn down NCAA bid in 1970 for NIT?

[MUBalla23]

Just thinking back wondering why?

[Gonring]

Al was mad that Notre Dame got into the Midwest Region and Marquette did not.

[BuzzSucksSucks]

I'm glad they did, now, for the reason that it's become part of the McGuire legend. 

[sailwi]

There weren't seeds back in 70.   Al didn't think he was treated fairly, he suspected Rupp had something to do about the and he loathed Adolf Rupp.

[HouWarrior]

There weren't seeds back in 70.   Al didn't think he was treated fairly, he suspected Rupp had something to do about the and he loathed Adolf Rupp.

Yup. 32 Teams were assigned by region , not natl rankings,...Al was upset  we were assigned out of our geo. region--he said the fans unfairly would have to travel too far .... he suspected Rupp at UK was involved in the jobbing and went to NIT/won it

Later, Al was also connected to NCAA's elimination of these regional area placements, entirely,  in favor of "pure" seeding at the top 4-

- in 1976 the natl ranked no 1 and no 2 (IU and MU) were in the same  mideast region final--The regional final was like the natl champ game (IU won it, went undefeated and killed Michigan in an anticlimax final 4) .
..the complaing over Indiana's most  challenging opponent being in the same region....spurred
the debate/decision to put top seeds all over and improve the chance the best top 4 get to final 4, and only first meet there.
Now the number one and two are in east and west sides of bracket --natl no 1 can never even meet a natl no 2 until the final--the perfect champ game scenario--
Thanks, again, AL

[4everwarriors]

Well kinda. The Warriors lost at South Bend that season in OT to Austin Carr. As an independent, MU didn't have a defined region. Again, no seeding but the better teams were assigned to their "region." With that loss, Marquette was to be shipped in the Midwest region with the first game to be played in Texas. ND, other hand, played the Tourney in the Mideast region. Had MU won vs. ND, the situation may have been reversed.
Al got PO'd and defied the NCAA by turning down their invite. Quite the unprecedented move since MU sacrificed considerable income by doing so. Back in the day, teams would make more money by losing their first round game in the NCAA Tourney than by winning the entire NIT.
At that time all NIT games were played in NY at the Garden. The FF of the NIT featured MU, St. John's (coached by Lou Carneseca, Al's collegiate coach)  Army (coached by R M Knight), and LSU featuring the NCAA's scoring champion, Pistol Pete Maravich coached by his father, Press.
In the semis, the Warrior's locked up Maravich with their D, and Pistol Pete met defeat. The championship game was never in doubt as the Warriors took down the Redmen.

I was present for both the LSU and St. John's games.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I thought UMass (Dr. J) was in that NIT Final Four.

Also, I thought Al played for Frank McGure (no relation) at St. John's. Carneseca was after Al's playing career.

[4everwarriors]

Rican,
I stand erected. Frank McGuire is correct. But, I'm certain about the FF. UMass was not in the FF.


There were 16 teams in the NIT. MU beat UMass, Utah, LSU and St. John's. Dean Meminger was tournament MVP.

[brewcity77]

Watched an interview with Al a couple weeks ago (obviously an older interview) where he said that he made a mistake scorning the NCAA, and that the only reason it looked good was because they won the NIT. He said anything less than winning it would have made him look stupid.

But Al did win it, which went a long way toward cementing his legacy in college basketball.

[cap82]

As retold from, You Can Call Me AL, the reasoning was numerous and the NCAA sent us out of our region , the Mideast(Dayton), to the Midwest which was to be played in Texas!
The prior year we were sent to the Mideast, ranked 14th, we ended playing Kentucky in Madison, AL beat Rupp for the first time.
In 1970 Rupp is on the NCAA selection committee and we are sent to Texas.
IN 1970, MU finished 22-3, the best record in school history, we are ranked 8th & 10th in the polls, we had four starters back from last seasons team, ranked better than ND and they stay in region(Mideast)!
Al was livid. He questioned the ethics of the selection committee openly. Al could not recall when a top ten team was ever sent out of their region, another MU first! A reporter called Rupp to question the decision, Rupp reported ripped Al pretty good, Rupp called the reporter back in ten minutes to retract his comments.

Another  side story, Al met in the office of the President of MU, Al told the good fathers of why MU should go to the NIT in NYC. At some point he was done and he had not heard a backing for his decision so as he left and he noted," father I do not here confessions and you do not coach basketball"
twenty minutes later Al got a call from the office of the President to say, "you are right Al". Later, a memo from the office of the President stated that all future decisions will be made out of this office.

Did Rupp not want to play MU in our backyard????
The only thing some people say is that MU played a soft schedule..why are we 8th & 10th?

Per the NIT, we opened vs uMass and a soph named J.Irving(soon to be known as Dr. J) was putting on a clinic in the first half. Mu was trailing, Al calls a time out  and wants to know, who is that guy? All the NYC guys know him from the city, which only pisses Al off more since he gets all the good players from NYC! How come I don't know him?
After we get by Dr. J, we later face Pistol Pete & LSU, Pete's Sr. year and he is averaging 44 points a game, MU holds him to around half his average and wins again. We also played Army coached by Bob Knight with a player that went to be known as coach K, now at Duke.

[4everwarriors]

Didn't play Army in the NIT. MU beat LSU. St. John's defeated Army. MU beats St. John's for championship. Army defeats LSU for 3rd place.
Take it to the bank.

[Wareagle]

Didn't play Army in the NIT. MU beat LSU. St. John's defeated Army. MU beats St. John's for championship. Army defeats LSU for 3rd place.
Take it to the bank.

Banked.
http://www.nit.org/history/nit-postseason-results-1970s.html

1970 (16 teams) - Army, Cincinnati, Duke, Duquesne, Georgetown, Georgia Tech, Louisiana State, Louisville, Manhattan, Marquette, Massachusetts, Miami (Ohio), North Carolina, Oklahoma, St. John's, Utah. First round-Georgia Tech beat Duquesne, 78-68. St. John's beat Miami (Ohio), 70-57. Manhattan beat North Carolina, 95-90. Army beat Cincinnati, 72-67. Utah beat Duke, 78-75. Marquette beat Massachusetts, 62-55. Louisiana State beat Georgetown, 83-82. Oklahoma beat Louisville, 74-73. Quarterfinals-Army beat Manhattan, 77-72. St. John's beat Georgia Tech, 56-55. Marquette beat Utah, 83-63. Louisiana State beat Oklahoma, 97-94. Semifinals-St. John's beat Army, 60-59. Marquette beat Louisiana State, 101-79. Championship-Marquette beat St. John's, 65-53. Third place-Army beat Louisiana State, 75-68.

[bilsu]

McGuire arrogence was why one of the best teams In MU history went to NIT. I was at the Notre Dame game. We had a two point lead and the ball with four seconds to go. Notre Dame stole the inbounds pass and tied the game. I was also at the semi-final game agaisnt LSU. I saw Maravich play three teimes. He played in the Milwaukee classic as a sophomore and scored 43 points in each game. The rebounding record was also set in that Milwaukee Classic. Dave Cowens pulled down 28 rebounds as his team beat LSU in a very high scoring game.

[Maryland Warrior]

Really great stuff.  I was in traveling mode back then so  I never really considered  the nitty gritty regards  The  Turndown.  Thanks to all for their memories.
  I believe one reason Al-as -Urban-Legend endures is his acute awareness of how thin rests  the line between Eccentric and Fool  and how lucky he was that several made choices  turned out as well as they did.

[mu72warrior]

There's a picture somewhere that shows schreoder hall at night with just the lights on in rooms to spell out F*** the NCAA.

[GGGG]

Yeah I know that this goes down into the legend of Al, but MU had a serious chance of winning it that year. 

Lou Henson's New Mexico State team ended up winning the midwest region that year.  Jacksonville upset Kentucky to win the mideast region.  St. Bonaventure upset NC State early and ended up winning the east.  UCLA won the west, and ended up winning it all, but that was one of the weaker UCLA champions.  (post Alcindor and pre Walton.)

What might have been...

[oldwarrior81]

that was the glory days of independents.  Jacksonville was ranked 4th, MU 8th, and Notre Dame 9th.

the wiki page has a few quotes on the decision:

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/1969

[79Warrior]

Well kinda. The Warriors lost at South Bend that season in OT to Austin Carr. As an independent, MU didn't have a defined region. Again, no seeding but the better teams were assigned to their "region." With that loss, Marquette was to be shipped in the Midwest region with the first game to be played in Texas. ND, other hand, played the Tourney in the Mideast region. Had MU won vs. ND, the situation may have been reversed.
Al got PO'd and defied the NCAA by turning down their invite. Quite the unprecedented move since MU sacrificed considerable income by doing so. Back in the day, teams would make more money by losing their first round game in the NCAA Tourney than by winning the entire NIT.
At that time all NIT games were played in NY at the Garden. The FF of the NIT featured MU, St. John's (coached by Lou Carneseca, Al's collegiate coach)  Army (coached by R M Knight), and LSU featuring the NCAA's scoring champion, Pistol Pete Maravich coached by his father, Press.
In the semis, the Warrior's locked up Maravich with their D, and Pistol Pete met defeat. The championship game was never in doubt as the Warriors took down the Redmen.

I was present for both the LSU and St. John's games.

There was hardly "considerable income" in the NCAA Tourney in 1970.

[NCMUFan]

Great topic and posts.

[groove]

Here is the link to the Sports Illustrated article from March, 1970

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1083484/index.htm

with a great mcguire quote.
"We were unjustly kept out of the Mideast," said McGuire. "I didn't want to go to Texas. I have nothing against longhorns, but that's 1,500 miles away. What could I get down there—maybe two cheerleaders."

[GGGG]

Pistol Pete comes off like a rube in that article.