Better Next Year or Hit With Rebuilding?

[Rocco]

Im not dumping on you at all.  Im agreeing with the analysis of Chicos by Lenny.  I actually agree with you, to throw my 2 cents in!

[Marquette84]

Im not dumping on you at all.  Im agreeing with the analysis of Chicos by Lenny.  I actually agree with you, to throw my 2 cents in!

Sorry--I thought I was the target of the "bitchfest' comment. 

[rocky_warrior]

First, I have Rocky, who claims I was only right in predicting our success "throwing sh*t agianst the wall to see what sticks".  I challenged him to find even one post where I wasn't consistent with my "at-least-top-half/upside of 5th/6th" prediction.  He hasn't replied yet, so I assume he's still scouring the archives.

I apologize - I'm just challenged to try to keep up with the rate of posts lately.  No need to scour, you clearly stated that you expected a top 4 or higher finish, then backed down from it with the sarcasm argument.  We've already had the debate, you disagree, I'm not going to rehash it.  You can go back and re-read the pre-season thread I linked to.  Rinse and repeat if needed, it'll save both of us a lot of posting.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Im not dumping on you at all.  Im agreeing with the analysis of Chicos by Lenny.  I actually agree with you, to throw my 2 cents in!

Damn, you mean I have to take Lenny off of ignore now to read it?  Nah....not going to do it.  Same old song and dance from him, always playing the psychiatrist and deciding what people think or what their intentions are.  No thanks.

[Hards Alumni]

Damn, you mean I have to take Lenny off of ignore now to read it?  Nah....not going to do it.  Same old song and dance from him, always playing the psychiatrist and deciding what people think or what their intentions are.  No thanks.

As opposed to the pot stirrer?

[Marquette84]

I apologize - I'm just challenged to try to keep up with the rate of posts lately.  No need to scour, you clearly stated that you expected a top 4 or higher finish, then backed down from it with the sarcasm argument.  We've already had the debate, you disagree, I'm not going to rehash it.  You can go back and re-read the pre-season thread I linked to.  Rinse and repeat if needed, it'll save both of us a lot of posting.

The problem is you linked to the wrong thread.  You should have linked to this one--where I actually made the comment (Not the first time you took it out of context):
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15041.msg140586#msg140586

In that thread, I was implying that those same MU fans who ripped Crean for chronic underperformance with his 4th and 5th place finishes would set THEIR expectations at no worse than 4th.  Especially guys like Lenny, who feel we've improved both our recruiting and coaching.  If Crean, with his perceived faults, can finish 5th, I would expect that the floor for Buzz would be 4th.  

Unfortunately, I can't count on people to take things in context--I guess I needed to spell it out precicesly:  "I would expect the floor (FOR GUYS LIKE LENNY WHO THINK WE"VE IMPROVED OUR COACHING AND RECRUITING) would 4th place, because that is one spot better than Crean's AVERAGE performance of 5th.

Despite being corrected, and despite multiple other posts where my own predictions (top half/.500 at worst) were stated directly, you're still using this one post out of context again.  I hope I've cleared it up for you this time.

Whats missing is that you (like BMA) miss the forest for the trees--even if I had consistently predicted a top 4 finish, I would still a LOT closer to the truth than those who agreed with the 12th place prediction.  One missed basket by WVU or Villanova in the waning seconds and we actually are tied for 4th.  Thats how close we were.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

No irony with 84 or myself. We may disagree, but we mean what we say and say what we mean. You acknowledge that Crean is a total douche yet defend him with the ferocity of a pit bull. You "love" Buzz but nitpick everything he says and does. Sometimes you even go for the "two-fer" as in "Boy, if Tom Crean (the douche) would have just done what Buzz Williams (whom I absolutely love) did this board would crucify him". Calling people hypocrits while displaying your own. Now that's irony.

Well, I can't speak for Chico's, but I will say this:

Several posters disliked Tom Crean to the millionth degree. It didn't matter what the man did, he would be ripped. If he showed up early to a press conference, he'd be called a brown-nosing media whore. If he showed up late, it's because he has a huge ego and couldn't make time for people.

I'm not saying that neither of those things are true (that's not the point). My point is that there is a section of posters out there who were always looking to spin everything he did into some sort of proof that he was a bad person and a bad coach.

I often challenged those posters with questions about "proof" or the consistency of their logic, and I was subsequently labeled a "Joanie" or some sort of apologist. Similar things have happened to Chicos and Marquette84.

Now, as far as "hypocrisy", let's just take an honest look at the situation and try to remove biases.

Buzz Williams is given the "benefit of the doubt" by some of the same posters who used to blast the former coach. Why? Well, I would contend its because they "like" Buzz better. I'm inclined to agree that Buzz SEEMS like a better guy (that's awesome), but my primary measurement of a coach is not if I "like" him. It's if he wins, represents the University well, and runs a clean program (no bias in that evaluation).

So far, Buzz is scoring very well on my scorecard, and so did the former coach.

[LON]

This thread has turned into one big slap-fight.

Scanning through this thread made me come to the conclusion that this picture needed a bump.

Carry on.

[ChicosBailBonds]

As opposed to the pot stirrer?

I'll gladly take the role of pot stirrer then play psychologist and determine what someone is feeling or thinking. Determining someones intent is a folly that is based on ones own inherent bias, thus the irony.   

[Ready2Fly]

This brings up an interesting question - what does hoopscoop have this year's class ranked?  We have a high quantity of recruits again, together with a high-quality JUCO.  I'm mostly curious as to where Crowder is ranked.

[Lennys Tap]

Damn, you mean I have to take Lenny off of ignore now to read it?  Nah....not going to do it.  Same old song and dance from him, always playing the psychiatrist and deciding what people think or what their intentions are.  No thanks.
[/quote

Psychiatrists don't "decide what people think or what their intentions are". They treat and usually medicate people with mental illnesses. I'm certainly not qualified to determine whether one would be appropriate in your case.

I can, however, read and comprehend at a relatively high level. Nothing more required here.

Sorry you're so defensive about it, but closing your eyes real tight and putting your hands over your ears (i.e.,"ignoring") doesn't alter the truth.

[bma725]

This brings up an interesting question - what does hoopscoop have this year's class ranked?  We have a high quantity of recruits again, together with a high-quality JUCO.  I'm mostly curious as to where Crowder is ranked.

We're 4th, but he still has Monterale Clark as part of the class.  So when you subtract him out of there we drop to 10th.  In terms of individual rankings, he has the players ranked like this:

Vander Blue - 8 Points - 11-40
Jae Crowder - 6 Points - 41-70
Reggie Smith - 3 Points - 101-300
Jamail Jones - 3 Points - 101-300
DJ Newbill - 3 Points - 101-300

He had Clark as a 6 point player, a drop from his previous status of an 8 point player.  For whatever reason he just refuses to take him out of there.

[mu-rara]

Let's face it, Lenny must be Mrs. Buzz Williams



Kidding...kidding.   Of course 84 was called Joanie Crean on here by many so the irony is rather symbolic.

I thought 2002alum was Joanie, or Riley.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I thought 2002alum was Joanie, or Riley.

Nope.

They did a blood test on Maury.

In the case of 2002MUAlum....Tom Crean is.... (dramatic maury pause) NOT the father.

Then we all dance around.

[mikem91288]

I'm excited to see Chris Otule next year. Buzz said he improved a lot over summer. Also, no one talks about E. Will. Hoping he will be a late bloomer.

[bma725]

I'm excited to see Chris Otule next year. Buzz said he improved a lot over summer. Also, no one talks about E. Will. Hoping he will be a late bloomer.

I just hope Otule can stay healthy for a whole year.  Even if he hasn't improved much, just having a big body to throw out there occasionally would be nice.

[RawdogDX]

I'm excited to see Chris Otule next year. Buzz said he improved a lot over summer. Also, no one talks about E. Will. Hoping he will be a late bloomer.

I was wondering when someone would bring up EW.  He's going to be a MIP candidate next year.

[JWags85]

Nope.

They did a blood test on Maury.

In the case of 2002MUAlum....Tom Crean is.... (dramatic maury pause) NOT the father.

Then we all dance around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg7eStnlTwQ