Badgers exhausted Saturday?

[ChicosBailBonds]

20/20 hindsight is amazing. You knew 17 up was our high water mark against FSU so you would have put in Williams at that very moment. Of course if the lead disappeared quickly (like it did against Rutgers last year subbing WAY more experienced players) and we lost momentum and the game I'm sure you would have been the first to come on here rip Buzz for blowing a game that was in the bag. That's the luxury of the second guesser.

Too funny.  It was an example....but we were up by more than double digits for 14 minutes of that game....and during those 14 minutes did we give the guys any meaningful blows?  Look it up


Last year we had depth and experience, this year we don't have depth and need bodies.  Let's stay on comparison here, comparing this season to last season is way off base, might as well compare the Harlem Globe Trotters to the Lakers.

[Lennys Tap]

Too funny.  It was an example....but we were up by more than double digits for 14 minutes of that game....and during those 14 minutes did we give the guys any meaningful blows?  Look lit up


Last year we had depth and experience, this year we don't have depth and need bodies.  Let's stay on comparison here, comparing this season to last season is way off base, might as well compare the Harlem Globe Trotters to the Lakers.

At one point last year we had a 9 man rotation (which I surmise is your definition of depth). Then Hazel was permanently benched for his "transgressions" lowering that number to 8. Once Acker and Cubillan played themselves out of the rotation we were down to 6. Then DJ went down. But you're right -last year we were deep. Look it up.

[ChicosBailBonds]

At one point last year we had a 9 man rotation (which I surmise is your definition of depth). Then Hazel was permanently benched for his "transgressions" lowering that number to 8. Once Acker and Cubillan played themselves out of the rotation we were down to 6. Then DJ went down. But you're right -last year we were deep. Look it up.

Yes, that's how Buzz likes to do things....two years earlier in the Big East Tournament, Crean went 11 deep, even went 9 deep in the NCAAs.

I hope we get there under Buzz, it's obvious we don't have the bodies this year to do this....which is why it's so frustrating that we play only 7 guys in some games to watch them get fatigued when there are some servicable bodies right there ready to play for a few minutes.

We're going to have to pick our poison here, either play more guys or slow down the pace.

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, that's how Buzz likes to do things....two years earlier in the Big East Tournament, Crean went 11 deep, even went 9 deep in the NCAAs.

I hope we get there under Buzz, it's obvious we don't have the bodies this year to do this....which is why it's so frustrating that we play only 7 guys in some games to watch them get fatigued when there are some servicable bodies right there ready to play for a few minutes.

We're going to have to pick our poison here, either play more guys or slow down the pace.

LOL. So you said last year's team was deep. I point out to you that you were wrong. You respond that that's the way Buzz likes to do things? So we were really deep (9) last year except for the fact that one of those 9 was basically kicked off the team and 2 played so miserably that noone in his right mind would have kept running them out there. So Crean would have kept playing Hazel despite his "troubles" and Mo and Cooby would have gotten big minutes shooting under 30% and being defensive liabilities? If so, that says more damning things about TC as a person and a coach than I've read up til now on these boards.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Lenny, from what I've seen so far, Buzz limits his bench.  I can't make it any more plain for you.  I'm not the only one saying it.  I know he wants to go to a 10 man rotation which he can't do this year because we are so down on bodies.  I do love the hit slap by you on Acker, especially since Buzz begged him back this year.  Kind of funny.

At any rate, let's all hope for the devopment of the team, individual players, fatigue (or lack thereof depending on who you speak to), that we play guys and win games.  I think we should be playing more guys during 3 game stretches in 4 games, you don't....that's fine.   Different strokes for different folks.

PS  Don't forget to watch Kentucky annihilate Indiana tomorrow and celebrate, jump up and down, put pins in your Crean voodoo doll or whatever else you do.   

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny, from what I've seen so far, Buzz limits his bench.  I can't make it any more plain for you.  I'm not the only one saying it.  I know he wants to go to a 10 man rotation which he can't do this year because we are so down on bodies.  I do love the hit slap by you on Acker, especially since Buzz begged him back this year.  Kind of funny.

At any rate, let's all hope for the devopment of the team, individual players, fatigue (or lack thereof depending on who you speak to), that we play guys and win games.  I think we should be playing more guys during 3 game stretches in 4 games, you don't....that's fine.   Different strokes for different folks.

PS  Don't forget to watch Kentucky annihilate Indiana tomorrow and celebrate, jump up and down, put pins in your Crean voodoo doll or whatever else you do.   

I won't be celebrating tomorrow unless MU wins. First, I don't think that celebrating someone's misfortune is good for the soul. Second, at my age I there is only so much celebrating I can handle. Given the alarming rate that IU loses my heart couldn't handle anything more than a smile when the Hoosiers go down.

PS. Still waiting to hear your explanation that the 2008-9 team was "deep".

[sigep80]

Comment on fatigue - I don't believe that the 2nd half problems are caused by fatigue.  This team had more than 48 hours between the Friday and Sunday games, that's more than enough time for a 20 year old body to recover.

One comment above was about the increased number of games at D1 compared to Juco or HS.  Do you have an idea how much bball these kids play now days?  They play constantly, all year round, starting at a young age. 

I assistant coach on a team in Chicago area, we practiced 3 hours each last Tues and Thur, played 1 game Friday night, 1 game Saturday morning, then won a 4 game tourney on Sunday.  This week it's practice Tuesday and Thursday, 2 games Saturday, 3 Sunday.  Our team does not get tired, we actually get better as the day goes on. 

I think some of the 2nd half problems of MU may be mental fatigue, they are young, and keeping the focus, especially on a pressure oriented team, may be much harder for younger players than the physical aspects are.

BTW, the team I coach on are 5th grade girls

[ChicosBailBonds]

I won't be celebrating tomorrow unless MU wins. First, I don't think that celebrating someone's misfortune is good for the soul. Second, at my age I there is only so much celebrating I can handle. Given the alarming rate that IU loses my heart couldn't handle anything more than a smile when the Hoosiers go down.

PS. Still waiting to hear your explanation that the 2008-9 team was "deep".

Do you think the 2008-09 team had less people that could play or more?  Less deep or more deep than the CURRENT MU team as it stands now? 

You guys love to use minutes per game...we had 9 guys at 10 minutes or more per game last year on average.   Plus, later in the year we got Mr. Fulce back who isn't even factored into the 9 guys.

This year, we have 8 guys that fit that marker, plus Otule is done for the year.  I don't see how anyone could think we are deeper this year than last year.  You'll have to explain it to me.

[Lennys Tap]

Do you think the 2008-09 team had less people that could play or more?  Less deep or more deep than the CURRENT MU team as it stands now? 

You guys love to use minutes per game...we had 9 guys at 10 minutes or more per game last year on average.   Plus, later in the year we got Mr. Fulce back who isn't even factored into the 9 guys.

This year, we have 8 guys that fit that marker, plus Otule is done for the year.  I don't see how anyone could think we are deeper this year than last year.  You'll have to explain it to me.

You'll have to explain to me where I EVER said that this year's team is deeper than last year's. You won't be able to since I never did. You said last year's team was deep. You were/are wrong. I pointed out the obvious reasons you were/are wrong. The fact that last year's team may be deeper than this year's is a red herring. That doesn't make them deep. Neither does including Hazel in the equation or (really stretching) bringing limping Joe Fulce into the discussion.

Furthermore, if last year's team is indicative of the number of quality players we'll dress in the future (not counting those being disciplined or the injured) be prepared for a lot of 6 or 7 man rotations. I certainly don't wish for it, but it was the only way to win last year and win we did. And that's ok, n'est pas?

[ChicosBailBonds]

You'll have to explain to me where I EVER said that this year's team is deeper than last year's. You won't be able to since I never did. You said last year's team was deep. You were/are wrong.

In comparison to this year's team, we are deep.  That's exactly what I meant, wasn't wrong at all.  Context is a wonderful thing.

Let's hope Buzz and the boys can pull it off tomorrow.

[MUSF]

Look, I've played sports my whole life and my current job is extremely demanding physically.  While I have never been in the basketball shape these guys are in, I think I can say, with some certainty, that fatigue is real for everyone and it has an effect.  Why do announcers and commentators who have spent most of their lives playing, coaching, or watching bball make comments about fatigue during games?  How many times did they mention that we looked gassed in the FSU game?  Did fatigue lose us games?  I have no idea, but to argue that it should be a non-issue because of the shape these guys are in, is ridiculous IMO.

Obviously there is a balance.  At what point is a fresh E. Williams a better option than a fatigued Jimmy Butler?  From my, admittedly non-expert, point of view, it appears that fatigue is one factor contributing to our late game collapses.  Again, Buzz knows his team better than I do, but I think we might be better off if he could find points in the game to sub in fresh bodies that can keep the pressure on and get some key guys a blow.  Otherwise, Buzz may want to consider changing up our style of play a little bit.