ouch, saftey school?

[RawdogDX]

I know that there are tons of factors that go in this.  Including in-state tuition which would be a big factor, but still.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2009/01/26/most-popular-colleges-national-universities.html?PageNr=5

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

If the implication is that MU is a safety school, I'd like to point out that they have been flying up these rankings the last several years. They were in the mid-90s when I was there, and that was as recently as a few years ago.

Also, anytime a school is being mentioned in the same grouping as schools like Fordham and Case Western, it's doing something right.

[Avenue Commons]

First, please spell safety properly when writing about our academic ranking. OK? Thanks.

Second, please read carefully. The listing of colleges on which we see Marquette represents the Top Half of "popular" schools. The schools at the very top of the top half (Harvard, et al.) are the schools we are a "safety" in comparison to in this ranking. I don't think there is any shame in being a "safety" in comparison to the Ivy League schools, Georgetown, Notre Dame, etc. which are incredibly selective and held in high regard by applicants.

[RawdogDX]

   Funny how you list the people above us from page 1, we are on page 5 not 2. 

[bs4173]

all this poll is pointing out is the discrepancy between how many people choose to come to a university if they are accepted. sure, as we continue to rise the national rankings, more people will apply to MU with the intention of going if they're accepted. that said, this poll has little or nothing to do with academic quality. too many factors go into this to make MU seem like a "second choice" school.

one example: BYU is a very good school, but they're ranked #113. in this poll, they're #2. so just because they have a high percentage of students who choose it once they are accepted doesn't mean they're 130-some places better than MU. i think if MU was one of the only Catholic schools in the US---just as BYU is one of the only Mormon schools in the country---then MU would be in the top 10. same deal with Yeshiva Univ being #9 on this poll--they're aren't a ton of Jewish universities. there are tons of high-quality Catholic universities in the USA (Georgetown, ND, Fordham, SLU, BC, V'Nova, to name a few) that MU "competes" with simply because it's Catholic.

[CAINMUTINY]

There is no doubt that MU is a phenomenal school, but who are we kidding......We are a safety school for some students who for whatever reason do not get into Notre Dame, Madison, etc. and that is not a bad thing.  Marquette has its virtues and we should be happy with the fact that more an more people have heard of the school outside of the midwest.

[Warrior97]

one example: BYU is a very good school, but they're ranked #113. in this poll, they're #2. so just because they have a high percentage of students who choose it once they are accepted doesn't mean they're 130-some places better than MU. i think if MU was one of the only Catholic schools in the US---just as BYU is one of the only Mormon schools in the country---then MU would be in the top 10. same deal with Yeshiva Univ being #9 on this poll--they're aren't a ton of Jewish universities. there are tons of high-quality Catholic universities in the USA (Georgetown, ND, Fordham, SLU, BC, V'Nova, to name a few) that MU "competes" with simply because it's Catholic.

Beyond the example of religious schools I think it is telling that a large number of state schools are higher on the list.  Some of these are quality universities, but I think their high ranking in this list is more a product of the type of applicants they attract.  Many high school students never look at options beyond the state schools.  This could be for a variety of reasons:  their parents may only be willing to pay the in-state tuition, all of their friends are going there, or their high school did not have a good program to promote other schools.

Marquette is not your standard University and it is one of the reasons I loved it.  An urban campus is not right for everyone, but it worked for me and many of my friends.  I think many applicants to Marquette do not fit in the group above and are considering a variety of different schools.  I know that many of my friends at MU considered a bunch of schools.  However, I know a lot of people at state schools that never considered another school.

I also agree that for a select few schools MU is a safety school.  But I don't think we are too far down the list and we are moving up.

[4everwarriors]

This discussion ends very quickly by comparing the middle 50th percentiles of SAT or ACT scores of admitted students of various schools. Yes, MU is a safety for some and a reach for others.

[Marquette84]

The big factor are the financial aid packages.

Outside of the Ivies, you see very few private schools on the first two or three pages.  Even Chicago and Northwestern are only in the mid 30's.  Does that mean that Chicago and Northwestern are safety schools for those considering Nebraska, Florida or Texas A&M? 

Hardly. 

More likely, there are a lot of people who don't think about the cost when they apply--when the financial aid packages come in and there's still $25,000 of need after a $10K/year scholarship, some kids, to quote Joel Goodson from Risky Business, say "Looks like University of Illinois."

[mu_hilltopper]

We are a safety school for some students who for whatever reason do not get into Notre Dame, Madison, etc.

For Notre Dame, yes.  Madison?  No.   

"Gosh, mom and dad.. I didn't get in to Madison.  Can you come up with 3 times the money, so I can go to my safety school?"

Doubtful.  Once you miss on UW-Madison, you're heading for other UW schools, or Minnesota, with their reciprocity.

Since "safety schools" have to have lower admittance standards, by definition .. schools like DePaul or Creighton really don't qualify, as they have roughly the same standards as MU.

Honestly .. past ND, I can't think of another school MU would be considered a safety option.  I guess if you were really fired up about somewhere like Lawrence, maybe.  I imagine there's a few other small liberal arts schools that have very high requirements .. can't think of them around here.

[gjreda]

Since "safety schools" have to have lower admittance standards, by definition .. schools like DePaul or Creighton really don't qualify, as they have roughly the same standards as MU.

Not too sure about Creighton, but based off of the kids from my HS who got in, DePaul's admission standards are not even close to MU's.  And this was 5 years ago.  MU has certainly gotten more difficult since then.

[Hards Alumni]

You may be somewhat confused here, hill.

if you think most MU students pay full admission, are are way off base.

I am from Wisconsin, applied to UW, got wait listed, visited MU in the sleet in January with the wind blowing sideways and decided that I wanted to go to Marquette that day.

I guess you could define it as my "Safety School", but I eventually got accepted to UW and didn't go.

The financial aid options that MU offered me were amazing.  They made school EXTREMELY affordable.  A lot of this aid was academic scholarships and grants, of course.  Now, I graduated from MU in 4 years and walked out with a debt of ONLY $17k.  I have friends who attended various UW schools sometimes for 5 years, and walked out with just as much debt.

Also, I know the other two kids who I went to high school with were UW applicants and were rejected.  They went to MU as their safety school as well.  They were in similar acedemic and financial situations to me so they got similar finanical aid.  Would they have gone to UW had they been accepted?  Definitely.  Do they regret their decision to attend MU?  Most assuredly, no.

to say MU isn't a safety school for UW rejects is, at best, a stretch.

[mu_hilltopper]

From your paragraph above, it sounds like you visited MU and decided you wanted to go there that day.   You stuck with MU even after you got into UW.  That doesn't fit the safety school definition of your 2nd choice, when you don't get into your 1st. 

MU became your 1st choice, for whatever your reasons were.  Perhaps it wasn't the expense.  -- But it would be for some. 

.. Further, I find that fascinating, that MU at $38k minus aid can be competitive with UW at $15k.  (room & board included for both).  Not saying it's untrue, but UW the original gap is enormous.

[Avenue Commons]

  Funny how you list the people above us from page 1, we are on page 5 not 2. 

Most of those schools on pages 2-5 have similar selectivity rankings as MU. I don't see your point.

[KCWarrior]

Anytime I tell people I went to Marquette, they are always impressed. Its perception is much higher than any state school, except perhaps if the person you're talking to went to said state school. And even in that case, most people get that Marquette is a better school, regardless of what any rankings say. In addition to academics, there are so many intangibles that make it so.

I'll put it this way – if you're applying for a job and it's down to a Marquette grad and three grads from UW or any other state school, the Marquette person has an automatic advantage. At least that's been my experience. I don't live in Wisconsin so maybe it's different there. Or maybe I'm just jaded from seeing all the big state school license plate frames and being thankful I didn't go there.

[gjreda]

Also, let's not forget a reason Marquette will most likely never be ranked as highly as many of us think it really deserves:

First and foremost, MU is a teaching institution.  We are not a research institution (at least not in any of the programs I was in - Economics, Business).  As such, we're not going to get ranked as highly because one of the main ranking criteria by the majority of the publications is research citations or research output.

Marquette professors focus on teaching their students and making sure they understand the material presented to them.  They do not spend their time sitting in their office working away at research while their TA teaches the class.  And I'm certainly thankful for that.

[Hards Alumni]

From your paragraph above, it sounds like you visited MU and decided you wanted to go there that day.   You stuck with MU even after you got into UW.  That doesn't fit the safety school definition of your 2nd choice, when you don't get into your 1st. 

MU became your 1st choice, for whatever your reasons were.  Perhaps it wasn't the expense.  -- But it would be for some. 

.. Further, I find that fascinating, that MU at $38k minus aid can be competitive with UW at $15k.  (room & board included for both).  Not saying it's untrue, but UW the original gap is enormous.

absolutely true, but I only applied to two schools initially, UW and Ripon College (no intent of attending, playing along for my mother's feelings).  When I got wait listed, and MU sent me a free application that was most of the way filled out, I figured, "why not?".  Of course, I was accepted and then took a tour.  Not wanting to wait around to hear back from UW in April, I decided to make my decision that day, essentially.  It wasn't a safety school in the truest sense, but you can see how my reasoning made it somewhat of a safety school.  Additionally, it WAS a safety school for my two classmates.

MU wasn't 38k when I attended... it was around 25-27k IIRC.  Take of 9k in grants per year and I am already down to 16-18k.  Add in scholarships that I had, and the figure comes down even more.  Perhaps your family just had a lot more money than mine did... or didn't know how to pretend they didn't 

[RawdogDX]

Most of those schools on pages 2-5 have similar selectivity rankings as MU. I don't see your point.

Sure if 45 is similar to 20, i suppose it's only 225% of the number.

The point is why say: No "shame in being a "safety" in comparison to the Ivy League schools, Georgetown, Notre Dame"?
When the Ivy, GT and ND are in the top 30 and we are 113th?

duh,  everyone who read the opening paragraph knew we would be behind Harvard.  If we were just behind the schools you listed I'd be elated, but we aren't, not the same ball park as them.  So why not pick out a bunch of schools from page 4 and talk about how you don't mind being behind them?   

Is that clear enough for you?

How about this?
That is like someone from UW saying today: "so what if we are behind UCONN, DUKE and UNC in the coaches poll?  There is no shame in that!"

If a UW fan said that i'd guess you would think he was an idiot.

[Avenue Commons]

Sure if 45 is similar to 20, i suppose it's only 225% of the number.

The point is why say: No "shame in being a "safety" in comparison to the Ivy League schools, Georgetown, Notre Dame"?
When the Ivy, GT and ND are in the top 30 and we are 113th?

duh,  everyone who read the opening paragraph knew we would be behind Harvard.  If we were just behind the schools you listed I'd be elated, but we aren't, not the same ball park as them.  So why not pick out a bunch of schools from page 4 and talk about how you don't mind being behind them?   

Is that clear enough for you?

How about this?
That is like someone from UW saying today: "so what if we are behind UCONN, DUKE and UNC in the coaches poll?  There is no shame in that!"

If a UW fan said that i'd guess you would think he was an idiot.

Go back to Page 2 and look at the acceptance rate and the yield rate of those schools. You will see they are similar to MU's. After the most selective and popular schools, there is a "bunching" statistically of most of these schools including MU.