[Cracked Sidewalks] Enjoy watching history being made...

[CrackedSidewalksSays]

Enjoy watching history being made .. where the 3 Amigos will finish

Written by: hilltopper91@gmail.com (Kevin Buckley (Hilltopper))

 Enjoy watching history being made .. where the 3 Amigos will finish - by John Pudner

    It's hard to enjoy history while it’s being made, but in the future Marquette fans may look back and remember that four of the top six scorers in Marquette history played together for three seasons ending this year.  In this first of a 3-part series, I want to project where the 2008-09 team and the four stars in particular will rank on the all-time scoring lists in Marquette history.    

  The Fab Four's ppg averages should all drop this year as Marquette's 81.1 ppg to date will likely fall to about 78.3 points per game based on the predicted scores for the rest of the season at http://kenpom.com/sked.php?y=2009&team=Marquette&t=p and potential matchups in the Big East and NCAA tournaments.  Looking at that link, MU is on pace to go 9-5 the rest of the way, with an average score of 77-72.  

Using these rankings as a basic guide for the post season, I ran a model of MU averaging a 73-73 score in five post season games (beat WVU and lose to Pitt in the Big East Tourney, then beat Miami-OH and Xavier in the NCAA before losing to Duke in the Sweet 16 based loosely on Pomeroy rankings for seeding and results).  

  I realize the task at hand for the players and coaches right now is going into Providence (whose only Big East loss is a close game AT Georgetown) and try to come out with a tough win there.  However, I don't want to wait until the season finale to really start to appreciate what the three Amigos are in the process of accomplishing.     Using these projections and some liberties to estimate the post season, the following is the potential outlook:    

 A. HISTORIC SCORING SEASON FOR MU     Currently, Marquette is averaging 81.1 ppg, good enough for the 3rd best total in history.  However, the Pomeroy projections have MU averaging 77 ppg the rest of the season against tougher Big East defenses, and assuming that total drops to 73 ppg for the Big East and NCAA tournaments that would leave this year’s squad at 78.3 ppg, still the 5th highest scoring average in history.    

• Terry Rand and 1955 Elite 8 team â€" 84.2 ppg
• Jim Chones and 1971 28-1 team â€" 81.7 ppg
• Bob Wolf and 1966 team â€" 80.2 ppg
• Dwyane Wade and 2003 Final Four team â€" 78.5 ppg
• Three Amigos, Lazar and 2009 team projected â€" 78.3 ppg

 Assuming the players’ rebounds, assists, steals and blocked shots fall off at the same pace as points during the tougher competition down the stretch, the final season stats would be as follows:    

Player	Pts	Reb	Ast	Stl	Blk	WC
ACKER	100	41	55	25	0	0.0
BURKE	96	133	6	8	12	0.1
BUTLER	144	103	25	12	12	0.4
CUBILLAN	78	31	33	8	2	0.0
FROZENA	4	12	0	0	0	0.0
FULCE	14	14	4	0	2	0.0
HAYWARD	558	295	45	29	8	6.7
HAZEL	94	82	2	12	16	0.0
JAMES	410	115	180	66	6	5.1
MATTHEWS	660	193	92	51	18	7.4
MCNEAL	644	164	117	59	14	7.3
OTULE	23	18	0	0	8	0.0
Totals	2825	1201	560	271	100	27.0

 (WC = Win Credits, the estimated number of wins each player is worth to the team based on his stats and how many points MU let's opponents score.)    

Obviously Otule and Fulce could register substantially more stats if they don't miss any more injury time.  

 B. THE FAB 4 ON PACE TO ALL FINISH IN THE TOP 6 SCORERS OF ALL TIME     Even with the points per game falling off due to tougher competition to 18.3 ppg for Matthews, 17.9 for McNeal, 15.5 for Hayward and 11.4 for James, all four would end up in the top 6 MU scorers of all time (assuming Hayward put up the same number of points his senior year as well).  Of course, while Thompson seems happy to congratulate the person who breaks his record, it should always be noted that Thompson will always be the greatest scorer in MU history.  In 1966, he scored another 405 points in 17 games for MU’s freshman team because freshman were not allowed to play varsity then, and his career 20.4 ppg only has been challenged by Dwayne Wade (19.7) and Jim Chones (19.0):    

• Jerel McNeal, 1,936
• Dominic James, 1,841
• Lazar Hayward 1,789 (assumes 558 points this year and      next)
• George Thompson, 1,773
• Butch Lee, 1,735
• Wes Matthews, 1,692
• Travis Diener, 1,691
• Brian Wardle, 1,690
• Tony Smith, 1,688
• Bo Ellis, 1,663

  The 2nd column will cover where the four stars will rank in all-time assists, steals, and wins list, and the 3rd and final column will evaluate where they rank among all the All-Americans and future pros to play for MU.
John Pudner, Journalism '88, was Editorial Editor and then News Editor for the Marquette Tribune. He was named top sports news writer in Virginia in 1991 while working for the Charlottesville Observer and wrote a weekly column on his rankings of baseball pitchers for the New York Post before leaving journalism for a career in politics and government affairs.

John's book Ultimate Hoops Guide: Marquette University can be ordered here: (www.collegeprowler.com/basketball)  

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/01/enjoy-watching-history-being-made-where.html

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's why I continue to believe that this senior class may be the greatest in MU history, at least statistically.   Then "throw in" Hayward from the class behind him, quite a void coming up after this year. A lot of young guys are going to need to step it up.

I hope the fans in Milwaukee start coming out in droves, this is a special group of guys that only play at home a few more times.

[CTWarrior]

I don't think this is the greatest group of seniors in one sense because they lacked the teammates to make them the cornerstones of a great team.  They are each tremendous players who's final statistical numbers will have a lot to do with the fact that they were given starting assignments from the day they arrived.  I'm not a fan of individual player basketball statistics, particularly college basketball statistics, because so much of them are dictated by pace of play and quality of opposition that they can't be given real contextual meaning easily.

The other thing I think we forget sometimes is that these guys are FUN to watch.  The steals, the defense, the looking upcourt and the push whenever the three guards or Hayward grab a defensive rebound, the wild forays to the basket, even the crazy bad passes, are exciting to watch.  That's one thing I'll say for Tom Crean's tenure.  The two years with Wade and the four years with these guys have provided us with a very exciting brand of basketball, which I really appreciate.

I laugh when people think the 2009-10 team will be as good as the 2005-6 team.  It is very, very rare to get three freshmen to compete at the level these guys did as freshman.  Tough to catch lightning in a bottle twice.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I laugh when people think the 2009-10 team will be as good as the 2005-6 team.  It is very, very rare to get three freshmen to compete at the level these guys did as freshman.  Tough to catch lightning in a bottle twice.

Absolutely agree...if Buzz takes this team to the NCAAs next year, then he should get COY next year.

[4everwarriors]

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with how well next year's team composed of Maymon, Williams, Cadougan, et al performs.
I'll agree that James, McNeal, and Matthews benefitted greatly by playing from day one. Not convinced they're the greatest class however. I'd say Whitehead, Butch, and Co. accomplished more.

[MR.HAYWARD]

I agree that this group while absolutely great to watch is not as talented or as "great" as some of the others.  Alot of it has to do with timing.  That would be like saying Brian Wardle was one of the greates players in MU history, or at least scorers.  He too was more of a product of lack of halp and if there were a few more good players on the team his point totals would have dropped and hist wins would have risen.  It also like this current group afforded him the opportunity to statrt as a Freshman.  Had Tommy Naismith not signed 3 staraight rank classes we would not have been starting 3 Freshmen.  Not to take anything away from the 3 kids.  They have busted their butts.  But if we had any kind of talent at the guard spot besideds Cahpaman they are probbaly playing a awhole lot less as Freshman and Sophs.  Timing has a alot to do with it. 

[Ready2Fly]

I agree that this group while absolutely great to watch is not as talented or as "great" as some of the others.  Alot of it has to do with timing.  That would be like saying Brian Wardle was one of the greates players in MU history, or at least scorers.  He too was more of a product of lack of halp and if there were a few more good players on the team his point totals would have dropped and hist wins would have risen.  It also like this current group afforded him the opportunity to statrt as a Freshman.  Had Tommy Naismith not signed 3 staraight rank classes we would not have been starting 3 Freshmen.  Not to take anything away from the 3 kids.  They have busted their butts.  But if we had any kind of talent at the guard spot besideds Cahpaman they are probbaly playing a awhole lot less as Freshman and Sophs.  Timing has a alot to do with it. 

Agreed.  And if we didn't have immediate playing time to offer all three, they may have ended up elsewhere, as they were obviously good enough to make a difference right away.  It goes both ways.

[Blackhat]

This thread just makes me want to throw up when thinking we couldn't get one dude in the 6'9"-6'11" range with game in three years.   We could be legit NC contenders.   

[Nukem2]

That's why I continue to believe that this senior class may be the greatest in MU history, at least statistically.   Then "throw in" Hayward from the class behind him, quite a void coming up after this year. A lot of young guys are going to need to step it up.

I hope the fans in Milwaukee start coming out in droves, this is a special group of guys that only play at home a few more times.

6 more home gams.  Line up folks.  This a special group.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with how well next year's team composed of Maymon, Williams, Cadougan, et al performs.
I'll agree that James, McNeal, and Matthews benefitted greatly by playing from day one. Not convinced they're the greatest class however. I'd say Whitehead, Butch, and Co. accomplished more.

Butch, Whitehead, etc...definitely accomplished more in terms of postseason, wins, etc.   

I was talking more in terms of statistically speaking.   I'd argue that this year's class COULD be the greatest ever, most certainly in the top 3. 


I'm writing up a story on it now in fact.   There have been some terrific senior classes that have gone through for four years, it just doesn't happen that much anymore with kids leaving early for the draft and the like.   


Next year, I think we will be talented and very young.  I'm sure I'll be plesantly surprised but also think we're NIT bound next year.  We shall see.  Right now I'm just enjoying this season, hoping we keep things going.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This thread just makes me want to throw up when thinking we couldn't get one dude in the 6'9"-6'11" range with game in three years.   We could be legit NC contenders.   

I'm sure Wisconsin fans probably say...."we couldn't get one dude in the 6'0" to 6'3" range with game in four years".

We had the guards, they had the bigs. 

[Blackhat]

Not sure which period you're referring to but I'd say Bo's most always had a well rounded roster.   Devin Harris, Chris Rock's double, and Trevon Hughes, Alando at the three are nobody's chump.   We've had Rob Jackson for a year, Scott Merritt signed back in '99 and ..............

[Phi Iota Gamma 84]

That's why I continue to believe that this senior class may be the greatest in MU history, at least statistically.   Then "throw in" Hayward from the class behind him, quite a void coming up after this year. A lot of young guys are going to need to step it up.

I hope the fans in Milwaukee start coming out in droves, this is a special group of guys that only play at home a few more times.

McIlvaine, Logterman, and my alltime fave Key