MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Blackhat on June 16, 2008, 03:27:14 PM
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according to John Dodds site. Buycks is a very nice get!
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Is he a 2008 recruit?
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball_recruits/dwight_buycks
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How often have you seen him? And, what would you describe as strengths/weaknesses?
Thanks!!!! :)
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FWIW, Scout has him as a 2 star 2007 recruit.
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Since he is a JUCO, must be the 2008 slot that is open. Another interesting fact, he went to Bayview. Hello Johnnie Lacy?
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looks like an 09 recruit according to this. he didn't qualify academically at bradley. he probably needs 2 years in juco to get his grades straightened out.
http://tamu.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=54234&sport=2 (http://tamu.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=54234&sport=2)
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rivals lists him as a 3 star, 2009 kid
Shooting guard
Ottumwa (IA) Indian Hills C.C.
Ht: 6-foot-2
Wt: 180 lbs
Class: 2009 (Junior College)
***
http://www.chicagosports.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=54234
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How often have you seen him? And, what would you describe as strengths/weaknesses?
Thanks!!!! :)
http://www.brightcove.tv/title...annel=353512526
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Since he is a JUCO, must be the 2008 slot that is open. Another interesting fact, he went to Bayview. Hello Johnnie Lacy?
Lacy and Buycks had trouble sharing the ball in HS, and that was with only 1 other talented player on the team. I can't imagine them being able to share it at MU and still get it to Hayward, Maymon, Williams, Butler etc.
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Goodbye, Johnnie Lacy?
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He was a freshman in Juco this year, so he is a 2009 recruit. He's a 6'3", 185 lb shooting guard. His Juco team took 6th at the National tournament and he was named to the All-Tournament team this year where he averaged 20 points per game. He was the all star at Bay View before Johnnie Lacy became the all-star. He had 31 points his senior year against Vincint (perennial power for those unfamiliar with Wisconsin HS basketball. He's listed as a 3-star recruit on rivals. He originally committed to Bradley out of high school (my guess is he didn't qualify, not sure though). I am guessing that the scout website does not have an updated profile on him because it has him listed as 6'1" 165 and he is definitely bigger than that, and it still has him committed to Bradley. He averaged 20 points per game his senior year and I would assume was 1st Team All State (could be wrong but he got a lot of publicity). He'll be ready to come in and play right away. He won't be the Juco recruit we've become used to, but he probably won't be a superstar either (could be though). Solid get for Buzz.
He was also considering Texas A&M, Kentucky, Iowa State, Missouri, and Bradley.
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He was a freshman in Juco this year, so he is a 2009 recruit.
That means nothing. Butler and fulce were both freshman this year in juco as well.
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Saw that kid play on time warner sports versus Vincent....Bayview was kept in the game by Buycks but he literally shot every time down. Not that I could blame him, he was unstoppable. Although he didn't look nearly as good as the two kids that Vincent had. Granted it was one game, but I thought Buycks was a bit wild.
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That means nothing. Butler and fulce were both freshman this year in juco as well.
Yes, but Butler and Fulce were both full qualifiers out of high school. Buycks was not, that's why he's at the JUCO and not Bradley.
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Yes, but Butler and Fulce were both full qualifiers out of high school. Buycks was not, that's why he's at the JUCO and not Bradley.
i agree. i said the same thing above. i just meant the mere fact he was a freshman means nothing.
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i agree. i said the same thing above. i just meant the mere fact he was a freshman means nothing.
My bad dawg. Regardless, he's an 09 recruit. About him not being nearly as good as the two Vincent guys I wouldn't agree with that. I'd say those two are more disciplined players. I think Buzz will make him more disciplined, and being around a team full of good players not just one other good players. But yes, Diante Garrett was amazing (Jim Gosz, coach at King - another perennial Wisconsin high school power - said about Garrett that it is like he is watching Devin Harris all over again), and Perine was very good as well (although a punk, from what I hear). They're all different players, Perine and Garrett were lanky but long and Buycks was a lot stronger. I like how Buycks uses his strength to his advantage. If I had a choice I'd take Garrett over Buycks by a little but then Buycks over Perine by far.
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Is this really that good of a get?...kinda seems like filling a roster spot. Who else was really serious about the kid? Kinda seems like an academic liability? I am optimistic but a little concerned about picking him up.
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Here are the schools listed on his Rivals profile:
Iowa State
Marquette
Missouri
Texas A&M
Bradley
http://tamu.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=54234&sport=2
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Is this really that good of a get?...kinda seems like filling a roster spot. Who else was really serious about the kid? Kinda seems like an academic liability? I am optimistic but a little concerned about picking him up.
He may be an academic liability but some pretty well respected coaches thought he was talented enough to go after. Iowa State was on him really hard and had offered. Texas A&M and Tennessee had been on him for awhile, TC had shown interest while at MU and was starting to show interest at Indiana, and Billy Gillespie was really pushing recently.
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kentucky and indiana (of course) were in on him as well...
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So he plays JUCO next year and is a 2009 recruit with two years eligibility. That's two forwards and a shooting guard for the 2009 class. If Buzz does not use the 2008 slot, that leaves two scholarships left. One for a point guard and one for Jamil Wilson?
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Worst case scenario, he's a good Acker/Cubillan replacement for a year or two.
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So he plays JUCO next year and is a 2009 recruit with two years eligibility. That's two forwards and a shooting guard for the 2009 class. If Buzz does not use the 2008 slot, that leaves two scholarships left. One for a point guard and one for Jamil Wilson?
Wilson seems to be a real long shot these days. Plus MU needs another true big in that class with Burke graduating.
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Wilson seems to be a real long shot these days. Plus MU needs another true big in that class with Burke graduating.
Wilson is gone. If this news is true, we've now taken two fliers in the 2009 class (if Buycks is even 09). Have to get a top flight PG. And the next need is a 5 man. That leaves nothing for Wilson.
And, stone cold, your link went to an error page. You wrote that Buycks is a very good get so I'm wondering how often you've seen him play and what his strengths/weaknesses would be.
This picture remains fuzzy and I'll wait until it clears but for now this seems a strange move.
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nola, time to take the stick out. If you search the i-net you'll get plenty of first hand accounts.
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Are you classifying either Maymon and Eric Williams as "fliers"? I don't think so.
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I guess this nola guy's got to find something to bitch about....including landing the best player in Wisconsin.
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I have to say I wish we were a bit more selective on guys with grade issues....that includes while Crean was here as well.
Probably sounds like sour grapes, but I'd rather we weren't taking so many higher risk players the last 5 years in the academic area. Hope it works out for the young man and MU.
Welcome aboard Dwight.
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Maybe Nola was talking about "academic" fliers, not athletic fliers.
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Are you classifying either Maymon and Eric Williams as "fliers"? I don't think so.
Maymon is an academic flier, I don't think anyone can argue with that.
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Maybe Nola was talking about "academic" fliers, not athletic fliers.
That would make sense except how is Buycks an academic flier for MU if he gets his associate degree.
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I guess this nola guy's got to find something to bitch about....including landing the best player in Wisconsin.
Actually, that's the direct opposite description of my behavior over the last 6-7 years in these forums.
No one in this thread has written about Buycks' game. You wrote he was a very nice get so I assumed you had actually seen him play. Seems no one has seen him play too much recently and are basing opinions over his Bay View days.
I was talking about academic fliers. Buycks couldn't qualify out of Bay View and is at JUCO which isn't a certainty to qualify for MU. However, in Mark Miller's article Buycks' coach gives him rave reviews from the classroom so perhaps there will be no issue.
With this commit official, Jamil Wilson is gone and we may soon fall out of favor with a lot of the New York guards/swingmen who seemed to be options A, B, C. Must land a top flight PG and with Buzz' superior recruiting ability that should be no trouble.
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You and I both know you were trying to be smart.
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That would make sense except how is Buycks an academic flier for MU if he gets his associate degree.
Time will tell. Bayview players of late have seemed to have a tough time making grades. Perhaps it's more perception then reality.
Hope it works out.
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Time will tell. Bayview players of late have seemed to have a tough time making grades. Perhaps it's more perception then reality.
Hope it works out.
I've heard from no one about any current academic problems with Buycks. Time will tell and to end my thoughts on this thread I apologize to nola if you were being serious. I have never seen Buycks in live action.
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I am not sure how I feel about this signing. While I think it is important to try and land stud Wisconsin players ( and I do not know if Buycks is in that realm), I also like the idea of trying to make inroads on stud players from the East Coast who want to play in the Big East and might come to Marquette. With his committment, we are probably out of the running for Omari Lawrence and others who I believe had scheduled visits this summer. I also am not a fan of a lot of juco transfers who only get to play two years.
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With this commit official, Jamil Wilson is gone and we may soon fall out of favor with a lot of the New York guards/swingmen who seemed to be options A, B, C. Must land a top flight PG and with Buzz' superior recruiting ability that should be no trouble.
What does the commitment of a two guard have to do with Jamil Wilson? I don't see the logic at work here. MU still have two scholies to give, and while it seems certain one will/should go to a point guard, the other would seem wide open. If anyting, the commitment of Maymon may have ended MU's chances/interest in Wilson, but not this one.
Also, if those New York guards/swingmen were options A, B, C, why is Buzz taking a commitment from this kid? Is he so fearful of not having his class filled up by July he'll gladly take his fourth option?
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i still get the feeling this is simply filling a roster spot, personally (at this point) this seems a little disappointing, especially if he is for 2009. i feel like we could have done better, time will tell I suppose. How can you not feel a little disappointed that we are getting a commitment from 1) a Juco 2) has academic issues 3) supposedly only has offers from maybe bradley and iowa state?? (kinda hard to determine what interest levels were from other schools, but that interest could have been one phone call to the kid or watching him play once. Just because a school shows interest doesn't necessarily mean the kid is of highest priority, look at how many kids now have marquette showing "interest" in them under buzz) 4) does not seem like a big east PG or 2G...
hoping for the best but at this point seems like a less than a good get
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Some video on the kid along with other links
http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=504627808&channel=353512526
http://wisconsinpreps.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=54234
http://www.iccac.org/20072008/mbb/20072008mbbIndian%20Hills%20CCWebstats.php
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=45961&season=2007&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d45961%26season%3d2007
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=549435
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For those of you that have seen Buycks play how do you rate his quickness/speed/athleticism? How does he compare in those areas to other top guards from Milwaukee like Korie Lucious and Diante Garrett? Thanks in advance.
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Can Buycks play defense?
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I saw Buycks play at Bay View and wondered why he was not on MU's radar. The answer was probably grades. He sure could score points in a hurry and seemed to fit MU's style of play.
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He's only a 6' 2" 26% trey shooter----that isn't BE material for a PG or wing, IMO.
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He's only a 6' 2" 26% trey shooter----that isn't BE material for a PG or wing, IMO.
You might be right....I wonder how accurate the claims of offers to Memphis, Illinois, etc are. Were they offers or interest.
Don't know, just asking.
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He's only a 6' 2" 26% trey shooter----that isn't BE material for a PG or wing, IMO.
And he's a 70% FT shooter?
I hope Buzz's standards are not slipping in favor of the "big name catches"...
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Dominic James 5-11 sometimes a pg could hold the three ball a little. Here are his stats.
SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
2005-2006 32.5 15.3 4.5 5.4 2.8 1.92 1.6 .4 2.4 .431 .641 .301 1.17
2006-2007 33.2 14.9 3.1 4.9 2.6 1.88 1.9 .1 2.1 .384 .651 .272 1.14
2007-2008 30.3 12.9 2.7 4.4 2.1 2.05 1.8 .2 2.2 .398 .664 .310 1.13
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Ran across this old JSOnline article (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=549435) (edit: Chicos already posted this article's link):
"With that blessing, Buycks started leaning toward Memphis, a high-profile program with an uptempo style. But while Buycks was deciding, the Tigers got a commitment from Derrick Rose of Chicago and cooled on the Bay View player. Something similar happened with Iowa State, making Bradley the official choice."
Even with not knowing where Buycks was on their recruiting depth list that season, that's GOT to give a scary notion about his abilities!
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Can Buycks play defense?
Buycks, who could often score at will in high school and led his team in assists, is excited to bring a tough defensive attitude that he displayed at Bay View with him to Peoria, Ill., where he will play for the Braves.
"(Defense) is what gets me going," he said. "When I get stops, that helps my offense. I love to guard the best players so I can prove that I can play defense and I'm not all offense. That's going to help me a lot.
"In college, they teach defense. They know who they are going to bring in and what their role will be. If the college brings me in for offense, they'll like my defense. You need defense at the next level to be a complete player."
http://www.newberlinnow.com/story/index.aspx?id=582568
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watching the film of Dwight and it looks like he is playing the generals(defenders falling down on the court). I understand how SC was Mr Basketball in Wisconsin.
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Buzz goes JUCO again
Written by: noreply@blogger.com (NY Warrior)
Dwight Buycks (http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball_recruits/dwight_buycks), one of the top junior college players in the nation, verbally committed to Marquette University earlier today. A 6'3" combo guard out of Indian Hills Community College in Iowa, Buycks selected MU over a host of schools including Iowa State, Texas A&M, Tennessee and Missouri.
Buycks will join the Marquette program as a junior in the fall of 2009. The Milwaukee native played his high school ball at Bay View and originally committed to Bradley before academic issues led him to Indian Hills. With well-publicized concerns about the questionable academic profile (http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/archive/2008/05/27/maymon-commits-to-mu.aspx)of recent MU commit Jeronne Maymon (http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball_recruits/jeronne_maymon), is Buzz Williams taking on yet another academic risk just two months into his tenure as head coach? 'Not so' reports Mark Miller at Wishoops, who reveals that Buycks is taking care of business in the classroom at Indian Hills, landing a 3.6 GPA in his first year there (http://www.wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/article.asp?nid=14966).
Last season, Buycks led Indian Hills in scoring at roughly 16 points per game while chipping in four boards and three assists. Buycks looks to be more of a scorer than a shooter -- he hit 46% of his shots from the field and a dreadful 26% from downtown.
With MU poised to graduate the Three Amigos after next season --- three 1,000 point scorers including the top two scorers in Marquette basketball history (perhaps) -- Buzz Williams is faced with making the most of a roster full of role players and high-ceiling freshmen heading into the 2009-2010 campaign. With that in mind and a gaping hole looming in the backcourt, Coach Williams had at least three options:
a) go to battle with David Cubillan and Maurice Acker as his featured point guards -- a recipe for a second-division Big East finish;
b) entrust a true freshman point guard with the reigns of a Big East program; or,
c) overload the junior class by going JUCO and hope for the best.
Hello Dwight Buycks.
Buycks joins high school forwards Jeronne Maymon and Erik Williams (http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball_recruits/erik_williams) in the class that will enter the Marquette program in 2009. If the current slate of committed scholarships holds up, the 2009-2010 roster should look something like this (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8):
Seniors: Hayward, Acker, Cubillan
Juniors: Buycks, Hazel, Fulce, Butler, Mbakwe
Sophomores: Otule
Freshmen: Erik Williams, Jeronne Maymon
Buzz Williams has two more scholarships to offer for the 2009-2010 class.
Additional Media Reports
- Todd Rosiak blogs the news (http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/archive/2008/06/16/bay-view-s-buycks-commits-to-mu.aspx)
- Video of Buycks from Wishoops TV (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=504627808&channel=353512526)
- Journal-Sentinel feature on Buycks from 2007 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=549435)
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/06/buzz-goes-juco-again.html
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Anthony Pieper was tough, too!
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Great signing. Buycks had some big programs on him. Mark Miller has stated that Buycks is clearly better than Lacy. IWB mentions that at least one analyst has Buycks as the best JUCO player. The kid is a stat stuffer similar to McNeal. He can score, make the assist, rebound and make the steal. He will play big minutes his jr year rotating between the 1 and 2 as he will have a ton of experience. Also gives Buzz flexibility in filling that final scholarship on the best player available. 09 class was a weak class for pg so signing Buycks was huge. We have a great backup pg who can slide over to the 2 spot in 2010 when Buzz can go after a big time point guard with a lot of playing time. This team is shaping up very nicely.
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Buycks also has a 3.6 gpa in JUCO. Maybe this is why Buzz cooled on Lacy. I still think a quality PG wouldn't hurt. Buzz may have some other options in mind.
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Cant tell if you are spinning negativity or a positive here.
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If Buzz is a great recruiter he will get us a solid PG!
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watching the film of Dwight and it looks like he is playing the generals(defenders falling down on the court). I understand how SC was Mr Basketball in Wisconsin.
You clearly haven't seen any City Conference games...
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I think we need to recruit two point guards this year. I think this is our backup. Now we need a good freshmen point guard and hopefully a bigman. This leaves Wilson out.
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I think Lacy's style of play and size does not give us what we need. I think we should give Buzz credit for looking elsewhere. I also think we shoud give Buzz credit for swithcing to recruiting Maymon and backing off Wilson. First of all I think Maymon turns out to be the better player. Second of all, if Wilson is truly waiting until March of 2009 to decide, it becomes a big risk to wait on him.
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Why wouldn't Bucyks transfer now and play and play this season as a soph? He'd have 3 years of eligibility, right?
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Why wouldn't Bucyks transfer now and play and play this season as a soph? He'd have 3 years of eligibility, right?
he was a non-qualifier out of high school.......Buycks needs the 2-yr credits and GPA to get into MU
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NYW - are you saying he will enter MU as a soph academically but will have junior eligibility?
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NYW - are you saying he will enter MU as a soph academically but will have junior eligibility?
he'd be a junior both academically and athletically when he arrives in the fall of 2009
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Is this really that good of a get?...kinda seems like filling a roster spot. Who else was really serious about the kid? Kinda seems like an academic liability? I am optimistic but a little concerned about picking him up.
That's what everyone said about Nick Van Exel, and MU didn't give him a scholarship either. He of course went to Cinncy and helped create a true rivalry (until Huggins was forced out).
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Not sure how I feel about this signing. At the same time, I'm not going to jump to any conclusions about him and his ability to play in D1. However watching some of those clips and reading about him does make me trust Buzz and what he's trying to do. I think the Buycks has some pretty good handles and a decent ability to finish in traffic. His jump shot looks nice as well. The only thing that keeps me in limbo is that there isn't enough information about him. BUT....knowing that teams like Memphis and Illinois were after them does make me feel better about it. I'm looking forward to seeing what his teammates say about him and how he looks when he steps on the court.
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I'm mixed as well. He sounds talented and it's obvious he's a scorer. But he is somewhat undersized for a 2, and his poor three point shooting needs to improve. I also have to hope this isn't our big PG get, but someone that can play PG but usually off-guard. Hopefully all these JUCO players are as good as they're being billed. I'll take poor performances with freshmen that can mature over poor performanced with JUCO players that graduate before they can improve.
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I think I'm in the same boat as most people on this pick up. Reading mark's article it mentions that his high school coach said that a lot of high major programs were picking up interest. Schools like Memphis, Tennessee, and the guy even mentioned North Carolina. That all being said you still have to wonder about his impact in 09. We'll see i guess!
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You might be right....I wonder how accurate the claims of offers to Memphis, Illinois, etc are. Were they offers or interest.
Don't know, just asking.
In a Scout.com article dated May 31, 2008 the Iowa State forum writer Greg Ohlson stated that "Dwight holds no current scholarship offers" but was receiving interest from Iowa State, Kentucky, Indiana, Marquette, and Tennessee.
From that it seems the interest from those schools was limited to postal letters.
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I'm looking at his stats from his first year at Juco and I have one question that I don't know if anyone can answer. Does anyone know what this kid did in first year at JUCO to jump from interest in his senior year of high school from middle tier schools like Bradley, UNI and UWGB to upper tier schools like Memphis, Illinois and us???? I know stats don't say everything but I'd be interested to know what happened to cause such a shift.
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MUONTOP said
Does anyone know what this kid did in first year at JUCO to jump from interest in his senior year of high school from middle tier schools like Bradley, UNI and UWGB to upper tier schools like Memphis, Illinois and us???? I know stats don't say everything but I'd be interested to know what happened to cause such a shift.
Memphis was interested in him when he was still in high school. The JS article that mentions Memphis is from January 2007.
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I'm looking at his stats from his first year at Juco and I have one question that I don't know if anyone can answer. Does anyone know what this kid did in first year at JUCO to jump from interest in his senior year of high school from middle tier schools like Bradley, UNI and UWGB to upper tier schools like Memphis, Illinois and us???? I know stats don't say everything but I'd be interested to know what happened to cause such a shift.
I think there was always some interest from bigger schools but his academics were a huge concern and rightly so as he failed to qualify.
Check out this link from Scout and scroll down to Mark Miller's comments on the kid and the stats he put up in the 2006 WYB Shootout. Now that is a great stat stuffer.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415#s=415&f=2850&t=2586142
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did not realize that Bucyks is the top rated JUCO player in the nation! I'm liking this acquisition more and more.
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I think Cracked Sidewalks hit it on the head. Acker is likely not the answer in 2009-10 - neither is a freshman. This guy will have some experience and can come in and run the point. We should still recruit a PG, such as Lacy, and if this guy can't cut it, we have only committed to two years.
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Former Bay View star Buycks commits
Written by: Todd Rosiak
Dwight Buycks, a former Milwaukee Bay View High School standout, announced his intention to play for Marquette University at a news conference early Monday evening.
"(Location) was mainly one of the big points," said Buycks, surrounded by family and friends in Bay View's gym. "My family's at home, and if I was to go somewhere far, traveling for my family wouldn't be so easy. They're up and down, they get it out fast, and that's really how I play.
"So based on that and the coaches, how our relationship clicked in real fast, that made it real good, too. It all came down good."
Buycks, a 6-foot-3, 185-pound guard, played last season as a freshman at Indian Hills Community College in Ottumwa, Iowa, helping the Warriors to a 28-10 record and a fifth-place finish in the NJCAA National Tournament.
He led Indian Hills in scoring at 15.7 points per game, while also averaging 4.2 rebounds, 2.6 assists and 1.8 steals. Buycks shot 45.5% overall (172 for 378), 26.3% from three-point range (31 for 118) and 70.9% from the free-throw line (95 for 134), and was an honorable mention All-American.
Buycks (pronounced bikes) is the third player to commit to MU's 2009-'10 recruiting class, joining Texas forward Erik Williams and Madison Memorial forward Jeronne Maymon.
He said he chose the Golden Eagles over Memphis, Tennessee, Kentucky and Illinois.
Buycks averaged 19.9 points, 7.0 rebounds and 5.1 assists en route to being named first team all-state by the Associated Press during the 2006-'07 season at Bay View. He had orally committed to Bradley University in December of 2006, but changed his mind last April.
Buycks will have two years of eligibility once he arrives at MU. He says he considers himself a point guard, and that he played roughly half of last season at that position at Indian Hills. Buycks played mostly point guard at Bay View as well.
"(Coach Buzz Williams) asked me where I feel comfortable," said Buycks. "It really didn't matter. He said he could see me as a combo guard or a point guard, either one. It comes natural."
MU has two additional scholarships available, and at this point it appears as though both will be earmarked for the 2009-'10 class as well.
Additionally, here's a link (http://www.sportsbubbler.com/DisplayTopic.aspx?TopicID=1959) to the news conference, courtesy of SportsBubbler.com.
(http://blogs.jsonline.com/aggbug.aspx?PostID=264412)
http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/archive/2008/06/16/bay-view-s-buycks-commits-to-mu.aspx
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He led Indian Hills in scoring at 15.7 points per game, while also averaging 4.2 rebounds, 2.6 assists and 1.8 steals. Buycks shot 45.5% overall (172 for 378), 26.3% from three-point range (31 for 118) and 70.9% from the free-throw line (95 for 134), and was an honorable mention All-American.
I am not a huge fan of those numbers AS a point guard. I know in the article it said that he split time at both positions. Maybe he was being used differently in the Indian Hills system, I don't know...but those aren't good point guard numbers. However, as it has been stated before: Stats aren't everything
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I'm pleased with this get. A combo guard with obvious talent could really help out with scoring once our big three are gone. Now all Buzz needs is to nab a great big guy and a skilled passing and ball handling PG and this could be one of Marquette's best recruiting classes ever.
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I'm with CS-walks. Gives us someone with experience and takes pressure (and insurance) off of David and Acker running the show in the B.East. Instead of two non-traditional-starters running the point, and one or two true freshman running the point, he's a good go-between. Not a veteran of the team, but a high-caliber player that can hopefully handle the rigors of the BEast.
it does read like schools cooled on him due to grades issues. Good luck.
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I have never seen this kid play... but all of the descriptions sound like McNeal.
Is that an accurate comparison?
Obviously he's probably not going to be as good as McNeal (an all-big east performer), but seems to be a in a similar mold. Not a great shooter, and not a pure passer... but can handle the ball and can distribute on offense. (McNeal does make a lot of turnovers, but he also has a lot of assists).
Also, Buycks seems like he has some good athletic ability and is a good rebounder (also a McNeal trait).
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So we have a Mcneal clone as our answer to our PG issue? IMO I hope we get someone else to run the point
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So we have a Mcneal clone as our answer to our PG issue? IMO I hope we get someone else to run the point
He's not the answer, no. He is, however, a temporary solution. I have a feeling we'll find our answer in a true freshman.
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Buycks is more of a PG than McNeal. There are similarities in that they are both high energy guys with big motors, and they both like to slash not shoot from outside. But Buycks is a better ball handler. And while he may not be a true pass first PG, he is a PG. It's what he played at Bay View(even when teamed with Johnnie Lacy) and it's what he's been doing most of the time at Indian Hills.
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So we have a Mcneal clone as our answer to our PG issue? IMO I hope we get someone else to run the point
By all accounts he has a better handle than McNeal -- ran the point in HS and in JC. Would imagine he will also run it again during his second year at JC. So Buycks will come in as another option at PG, along with Acker, Cubes and probably a true freshman. Let's not jump to too many conclusions, especially since Buzz has two open schollies. I can live with a one guard rotation in 09-10 of the above.
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Buycks is more of a PG than McNeal. There are similarities in that they are both high energy guys with big motors, and they both like to slash not shoot from outside. But Buycks is a better ball handler. And while he may not be a true pass first PG, he is a PG. It's what he played at Bay View(even when teamed with Johnnie Lacy) and it's what he's been doing most of the time at Indian Hills.
Sounds decent.
Like I said, I've never seen the kid play.
Also, for full disclosure, I hate when McNeal gets careless with the ball, but he is a pretty decent distributor when you really think about it.
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Buycks is not a McNeal clone. He's a better ball handler than McNeal-----not as quick as McNeal nor does he have as good a pullup shot. 26% on treys in JUCO is like 15-20% in the BE.
What I hear is that he loves to control the ball and plays much better off the east-west dribble than off the catch and shoot or drive-----for better or for worse he sounds like a PG to me.
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Rondo comparisons come to mind.
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26% on treys in JUCO is like 15-20% in the BE.
Can you please list a few examples of the 26% shooters in JUCO that only managed 15-20% in Big East play that you're basing this claim on.
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God forbid he may actually improve his shooting between his freshman and sophomore years.... but murf knows all...
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if you remove his 3's. the guy is shooting 54% - he is probably the best player on his team and is put in a position to hoist the 3 alot. Marquette will have more options.
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Can you please list a few examples of the 26% shooters in JUCO that only managed 15-20% in Big East play that you're basing this claim on.
According to Murf's logic, a guy would have to shot about 60% on 3s in High School to shoot 30% in the NBA. I wonder what Diener and Novak shot?
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Rondo comparisons come to mind.
Are you comparing Buycks to Rondo?
?-(
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He is a good athlete and can handle the ball. Athletes win come NCAA time. Keep bringing 'em Buzz.
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Are you comparing Buycks to Rondo?
?-(
I think the comparison is very valid from what I've seen on video. Are you saying its not valid?
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Are you comparing Buycks to Rondo?
?-(
Yup - after watching a video of him play, they have similar games. Could be a stretch
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If Bucycks had been playing against the bigger quicker bodies THIS YEAR in the BE, he certainly would have been defended better than in JUCO ball. So his 26% trey shooting percentage would certainly drop----common sense. I throw out 15% to 20% as an estimate. Now he may improve in the future (can't get much morse on treys)----but that's the way things stand right NOW.
Bucyks is more of a Rondo style than McNeal-------McNeal does his thing off a "catch the pass and perform" basis-------where as like Buychs, Rondo does a lot of his stuff off the east-west dribble as a result of controlling the ball.
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Murf ... where have you seen Buycks play?
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What we do not know is the quality of three point shots he is taking. In the Big East he may not be shooting as many and taking only good open shots, so his percentage could go up. He also should get better technical coaching at MU, than he is now getting. If the coaching is not better at MU than Buzz did a bad job hiring assistants and MU did a bad job hiring Buzz. I would hope in recruiting you look at what you can do to improve a player. You cannot improve a players height. You can improve his body strength, fundamentals, etc. One factor to consider here is the player coachable and a hard worker. The fact that he is earning a good grade point in a different enviroment is an indication that he will work to improve. Also some players do improve significantly over time. I think it was John Cliff who was recruited for his shooting ability. He was absolutely horrible as a freshmen, but was a good shooter by time he was a senior.
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If Bucycks had been playing against the bigger quicker bodies THIS YEAR in the BE, he certainly would have been defended better than in JUCO ball. So his 26% trey shooting percentage would certainly drop----common sense. I throw out 15% to 20% as an estimate.
I don't know if Buycks is the second coming of Butch Lee... but I'm certainly not going to discount his shooting 10% just because he's making the jump to the big east. That's stupid, and you know it.
I know what you are trying to say... but seriously, there is no way to know that his percentage will drop 6-10% off of the top of your head.
I mean, by that logic a guy would have to be shooting 50% in juco or even high school to make him a good college shooting prospect.
It doesn't work like that.
You can say that it does. But it doesn't.
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If Bucycks had been playing against the bigger quicker bodies THIS YEAR in the BE, he certainly would have been defended better than in JUCO ball. So his 26% trey shooting percentage would certainly drop----common sense. I throw out 15% to 20% as an estimate. Now he may improve in the future (can't get much morse on treys)----but that's the way things stand right NOW.
How far did Steve Novak's shooting percentage fall when he went from C-USA to the Big East.
Oh wait ... his shooting percentage, both inside and outside the arc, improved.
How's that possible?
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Because Steve has the purest stroke this side of Antarctica! ;)
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I think its very likely that the number of attempts would go down and the % made would go up assuming everything else remained the same. He will be surrounded by better talent and will not be asked to carry the load as much.
Lets also remember that the 3 point line is being moved back this year so 3 point attempts will probably be down overall as well as percentages made.
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How far did Steve Novak's shooting percentage fall when he went from C-USA to the Big East.
Oh wait ... his shooting percentage, both inside and outside the arc, improved.
How's that possible?
The jump from CUSA to the BE is nowhere near the adjustment that has to be made from JUCO to the BE----not even close.
There are at least several dozen HS seniors in the state of Wisconsin each year who are 40%+ trey shooters----yet noway are the VAST majority of them going to duplicate that in the BE-----Pakuni, I hope you get the point!
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Just remember everyone, Murffieus is THE expert on high school prospects. He was the one who said Keaton Nankivil was the greatest prospect in the Wisconsin high school basketball history. That's was dead on.
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You talk like he was a flop-----well he was Gatorade and Wisconsin Coaches Mr BB for the State of Wisconsin.
TC saw his potential and really went after him-----yet he didn't make even a pass at Maymon. That should tell you something.
We haven't heard from Nankivil yet in Div 1------I wouldn't be so condescending toward him!
BTW----what does that have to do with Bucks trey shooting-----or lack of it!
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If Bucycks had been playing against the bigger quicker bodies THIS YEAR in the BE, he certainly would have been defended better than in JUCO ball. So his 26% trey shooting percentage would certainly drop----common sense. I throw out 15% to 20% as an estimate. Now he may improve in the future (can't get much morse on treys)----but that's the way things stand right NOW.
As I suspected, an fact-free claim, completely unsubstantiated by evidence.
In reality, if you check the shooting percentages of the JUCO players who played in the Big East last season, some improved from their JUCO days, some got worse, some stayed about the same.
The heart of the false argument lies in this statement:
***If Bucycks had been playing against the bigger quicker bodies THIS YEAR in the BE, he certainly would have been defended better than in JUCO ball.
1. Buycks would also certainly be surrounded by better players on a Big East team, which means he might not have drawn the top defender. In Juco, he's the best person on his team (and probably in his league). In the Big East, he's just another player. He's not going to draw the primary attention as he does at the JUCO level.
2. Big East players are not all faster than the fastest JUCO, nor are they all bigger than the biggest JUCO. That's just a fact. Sometimes the Big East players are there for their offense (ie Diener, Novak). There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there were some better defenders in Juco than Travis Diener or Steve Novak were in the Big East.
3. Defense tends to be the great equalizer--after all, Bob Dukeit coached one of the best defenses in the NCAA. In the NCAA this year, teams like VCU, Stephen F Austin and Sam Houston State shared top 20 FG% defense honors with Georgetown and Memphis and Texas. It is by no means assured that a Big East team plays better defense simply because it's in the Big East.
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here are the numbers of JUSTIN JOHNSON
6-6 190 played at Tyler JC and then played for Iowa the past few years.
Although this may apply more to Butler/Fulce than it does Buycks, but there wasn't any drop in 3pt%
Tyler -------
2005 42% fg, 34% 3pt, 61% ft, 5.0 reb, 14.5 pts
Iowa -------
2007 39% fg, 45% 3pt, 71% ft, 2.3 reb, 5.4 pts
2008 36% fg, 35% 3pt, 74% ft, 4.9 reb, 11.8 pts
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You talk like he was a flop-----well he was Gatorade and Wisconsin Coaches Mr BB for the State of Wisconsin.
TC saw his potential and really went after him-----yet he didn't make even a pass at Maymon. That should tell you something.
We'll never know for sure, but one possible reason that Maymon received little interest pre-Williams was that Jamil Wilson's commitment was signed, sealed, and delivered when TC was still the head coach here.
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Murf ... you're wrong again ... I personally saw Maymon at two games last year and was at the Al when he was in for an unofficial visit to Marquette last summer. True, Crean did not pursue Maymon the past six months, but to say he didn't even "make a pass" at him is dead wrong.
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Per Wareagle's comment that Jamil Wilson's commitment was signed,sealed and delivered when TC was coach, is that accurate and by extension does that mean that Wilson will logically follow TC to Indiana given that Duke and MSU are apparently recuriting him hard? I can't tell if Wareagle was being serious or sarcastic ?-( and am not in the loop regarding his recruiting pre-Buzz.
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Murff, if Nankovil was so good, how come Dracula kept him nailed to the bench when Bucky was getting its ass kicked by GM in the tourney?
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Per Wareagle's comment that Jamil Wilson's commitment was signed,sealed and delivered when TC was coach, is that accurate and by extension does that mean that Wilson will logically follow TC to Indiana given that Duke and MSU are apparently recuriting him hard? I can't tell if Wareagle was being serious or sarcastic ?-( and am not in the loop regarding his recruiting pre-Buzz.
A lot of people felt that Wilson was thisclose to a commit so long as Crean stayed. Getting a player of that potential (local kid no less which is very, very important to some people) would have been a signature moment for the program in the Big East and adding him to a talented guard corps with Tyshawn Taylor and Nick Williams would have set MU up for a very nice future.
People know more then I but I don't think Wilson took too kindly to Crean's way of departure. As a result, he'll keep an eye on the local school, though we aren't much of an option after taking Maymon's commit, but when it comes down to it he'll choose Michigan State. I think he'll be a good one.
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Thanks NOLA....I remember being at Marquette when Joe Wolf tantalised us but ended up going to North Carolina. Izzo usually keeps a scholly open just in case so MSU is probably one of the few programs that can afford to wait until next March for Jamil's decision.
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Thanks NOLA....I remember being at Marquette when Joe Wolf tantalised us but ended up going to North Carolina. Izzo usually keeps a scholly open just in case so MSU is probably one of the few programs that can afford to wait until next March for Jamil's decision.
Agreed but MU does not have that luxury. If we wait and don't get him what are our options?
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SJS/84 ----- What do you think the score would be if a mid range BE team like Syracuse would have played Buyck's
had played JUCO team -----I think a good estimate would be Syracuse 110 & Buycks JUCOs 40. Now why would Bucyks JUCOs only get 40 points------it's because the bigger, faster, stronger more talented bodies of the Syracuse players would have forced the Indian Hills players out of their comfort zone when attempting a shot and therefore destroyed their shooting percentages.
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Murff, if Nankovil was so good, how come Dracula kept him nailed to the bench when Bucky was getting its ass kicked by GM in the tourney?
Can't answer that----but I do know that you will be seeing a lot of MR Nankivil this upcoming year. Crean didn't bust his balls going after him for a lack of good reason. He was Crean's #1 target.
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Murf ... you're wrong again ... I personally saw Maymon at two games last year and was at the Al when he was in for an unofficial visit to Marquette last summer. True, Crean did not pursue Maymon the past six months, but to say he didn't even "make a pass" at him is dead wrong.
Mark, why do you come down on me so condescendingly-----I didn't show any disrespect toward you did I?
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SJS/84 ----- What do you think the score would be if a mid range BE team like Syracuse would have played Buyck's
had played JUCO team -----I think a good estimate would be Syracuse 110 & Indian Hills 40. Now why would Indian Hills only get 40 points------it's because the bigger, faster, stronger more talented bodies of the Syracuse players would have forced the Indian Hills players out of their comfort zone when attempting a shot and therefore destroyed their shooting percentages.
First, you're wrong about Big East teams being filled with bigger/faster players. Jucos aren't filled with low-talent, undersized players--they are filled with players who didn't qualify for D1 out of HS. Many of them are just as big and just as fast. Your very premise is wrong. Indian Hills may not be Big East caliber, but they certainly would hold their own in the Southern, MAC, Summit or Southland conferences.
Second, your comparison about Syracuse playing Indian Hills is stupid--they're not going to play Indian Hills--=they're going to play a MU lineup that includes Buycks, Erik Williams, Jeronne Maymon, , Trevor Mbaakwe and Lazar Hayward. I doubt that lineup only scores 40--and I bet that Buycks manages to get as many open shots as he did when his supporting cast wasn't quite the same calibre.
And Syracuse is probably the worst matchup--Buycks is would be both taller and faster than the starting backcourts of just about any other Big East team.
And of course the supporting cast at MU will be quite a bit more talented than the supporting cast at Indian Hills. Syracuse couldn't afford to double team Buycks because there will be another player on the roster.
But the bottom line is that you can't back up your claim that players drop 10 points on their shooting average when they move from Juco to D1. I asked a simple question--who are you basing that on--and you can't name one player who has dropped from 26% to 15% three point shooting. Not one.
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SJS/84----I've seen JUCO BB and it's nothing more than playground BB. It's run and gun with very little defense. That's why they have trouble fitting in ----in their first year of Div 1 BB----they have no grounding in fundamental BB.
The best JUCO team in the nation wouldn't win a game in the BE!
Syracuse zones and Buycks can't shoot so where is he going to get his points?.
What I'm saying is that if buycks or anyone else can only shoot 26% on treys in JUCO-----against the bigger, faster, stronger, and above all more talented bodies of BE players would take Indian Hill players out of their comfort zone on shots forcing them off balance-----defense does make a difference-----ask Kobe about that as the Celtics kept him completely to the outside in the championship series-------whereas he had been able to get inside all season long at will.
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Speaking for myself, I will wait until the 2009 season and Bucks actually plays against Big East competition before I make judgments that "he can't shoot" in June 2008 or that the JUCOS that have been recruited won't be able to contribute on this team.
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I didn't say they wouldn't contribute---------I sad they would underachieve expectations their first year.
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SJS/84----I've seen JUCO BB and it's nothing more than playground BB. It's run and gun with very little defense. That's why they have trouble fitting in ----in their first year of Div 1 BB----they have no grounding in fundamental BB.
Well, I see you've moved on to try another approach. You initially attempted to argue that JUCOs were smaller and not as quick as the average player in the Big East. It took me about a minute to look at BE rosters to see that Buycks is no smaller than most of the Big East backcourts, and aside from Syracuse, probably not slower either.
Instead of admitting that point, you move on to the style of play.
Well let me ask you what in the sam hell does playground/run and gun basketball have to do with a player's size or quickness?
Obviously I caught you in a lie, and you're trying to shift the debate to avoid admitting that I'm right--that most guards in the BE are in the 5-11 to 6-4 range, which means that Buycks is going to be at the top end of that range.
Now, let me point out that your attempt to shift the subject actually UNDERMINES your case. Buycks shot 26% on threes in playground, run and gun offense. What do you think will happen when his coach is running a structured offense DESIGNED TO GET AN OPEN LOOK? Will the % drop? Hardly--its going to improve.
The best JUCO team in the nation wouldn't win a game in the BE!
So what?
Go back and read what I said in the last post on this subject. You might be surprised to learn that Buycks' Indian Hills teammates won't be with him at MU--he'll be surrounded by Maymon, Hayward, Mbakwe, et. al.
Apples and Oranges, I would say.
Syracuse zones and Buycks can't shoot so where is he going to get his points?.
Easy.
Against DePaul, South Florida, Georgetown, Providence, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St. John's, Notre Dame, Rutgers, UConn, Seton Hall, Louisville, Villanova and West Virginia.
What I'm saying is that if buycks or anyone else can only shoot 26% on treys in JUCO-----against the bigger, faster, stronger, and above all more talented bodies of BE players would take Indian Hill players out of their comfort zone on shots forcing them off balance
Well we're not talking about Indian Hill players in general, are we? We're talking about ONE specific player.
And I'm saying is that you're wrong. Buycks is neither smaller, slower, weaker NOR less talented. He simply didn't have the qualifications out of HS--THAT is why HE is at Indian Hills.
Implying that he's smaller, slower, or weaker because you've seen other Juco teams play is about the most inane thing you've said. That would be like saying you saw Bob Dukiet coach at MU, and using that to conclude that Al McGuire is a lousy coach.
I don't know which JUCO teams you've seen, but we're not talking about any of them--or even Indian Hill
BTW, I'm still waiting for you to cite the examples of players who dropped 10% points transferring from JUCO to D1. It's obvious you didn't have any in mind when you said that typically happens.
Then again, I already can prove you're wrong--I've checked the Big East for the last three years, and frankly, some players improve their shooting, some players decline and some stay about the same.
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I think the statement that JC ball is nothing but run and gun, proves my point I made several posts above. That point was that Buycks will be much better coached at MU.
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SJS/84-----you admit that indian Hills wouldn't win a game in the BE----ask yourself why not-----it's because BE players are bigger, stronger, quicker, and more talented and would take Indian Hill shooters out of their comfort zone forcing off balance shots resulting meager shooting percentage.
Meanwhile on offense the skill level of BE players would overwhelm Indian Hill's capability to defend.
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I think the statement that JC ball is nothing but run and gun, proves my point I made several posts above. That point was that Buycks will be much better coached at MU.
You mean you hope Buycks will be "much better coached at MU"----that's far from a given, IMO.
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You mean you hope Buycks will be "much better coached at MU"----that's far from a given, IMO.
I really hate to get in this argument... but you said that Juco is all run and gun and basically streetball.
A big east program is certainly going to be better coached than that.
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SJS/84-----you admit that indian Hills wouldn't win a game in the BE----ask yourself why not-----it's because BE players are bigger, stronger, quicker, and more talented and would take Indian Hill shooters out of their comfort zone forcing off balance shots resulting meager shooting percentage.
Meanwhile on offense the skill level of BE players would overwhelm Indian Hill's capability to defend.
As I said before, I don't care about the rest of the IHCC roster--I am only interested in ONE specific player.
Buycks is neither smaller, slower, weaker NOR less talented than your typical BE guard. He simply didn't requirements out of HS--THAT is why HE is at Indian Hills.
Every time I bring up Buycks, you try to shift the discussion to how the entire IHCC team would fare in the BE.
Would it be too much to ask that you name the JUCO players who dropped 10 points shooting when they moved on to D1?
Or will you just admit the blatantly obvious point that you just made this up--you know it's not true, and you're hoping beyond hope that you can get me to change the topic.
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Ididn't say Bucyks would drop 10 poits shooting moving from JUCO to the BE-----what I did say is that if he had played BE BB this past year his trey shooting percentage would have been between 15 & 20 %.
Hopefully he will improve his perimeter shooting, but don't expect much his first year at MU.
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Ididn't say Bucyks would drop 10 poits shooting moving from JUCO to the BE-----what I did say is that if he had played BE BB this past year his trey shooting percentage would have been between 15 & 20 %.
In this thread you managed to work in most of your worst habits in posting.
Baseless comment: "26% in JUCO is like 15 to 20% in the Big East".
Inability to Support your claim when Challenged: You can't name any players who have had that 10 point drop in shooting percentages when they transferred from a JUCO to D1.
Trips to Fantasyland: You pretend that Buycks WOULD have had a 10 point drop IF by some fantasy he played in the Big East instead of JUCO.
Incorrect Premise: You base this on the false premise that Buycks was smaller, slower, weaker and less talented than any Big East guard.
Being shown an obvious truth: When I pointed out that unlike other JUCO players, Buycks was not in JUCO because he was smaller, slower or less talented--he was there due to academics.
Bait & Switch: When it was pointed out that Buycks was not slower, smaller or less talented, you neither denied nor agreed with the point, but instead switched to discussions about Jucos in general, or the entire IHCC team.
Obstinance: Despite the obvious mistake in assuming that Buycks was smaller, slower, weaker and less talented, you still haven't admitted that making that claim was wrong.
Here's what I say: Buycks would have shot BETTER than the 26% had he played in the Big East this past year , because
a) he'd have had better coaching
b) the offense would have been more structured resulting in fewer rushed shots.
c) his supporting cast would have been FAR more talented, and would have drawn defensive pressure away from him--he would have seen far fewer double teams as the #5 or 6 option at MU than he would have as the #1 option at IHCC
d) He has a size advantage over most of the PGs and a speed advantage over most of the 2Gs in the league.
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Again SJS/84 I must point on to you that I am not refering to two different years----I am referring to the same year. I'm saying that if Bucys played in the BE this past year (Note: THE SAME YEAR) his trey shooting percentage would have been worse the 26% he shot in JUCO. I estimate somewhere between 15-20%.
The rationale being that defenders are quicker, faster, stronger and above all are more talented
in the BE. Sorry you can't see the reasoning here-----seems pretty clear cut to me.
BTW-----don't assume that he'd get better coaching at MU-----the guys on the UNO board would disagree with you!
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Murffy,
I thought you said B. Williams proved to be a good offensive coach at UNO. Are you flip flopping?
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Murf,
You are brutal with this one.
You've never seen the kid play, so don't pretend like you are the dude "bringing us all back to reality" with your comments.
Nobody has any idea how Buycks will shoot in the BEAST. He could get better with more open looks and better coaching or he could be worse by playing against tougher/bigger defenders.
There is no way to just look at his stats and know exactly what will happen. Pretending that YOU know better than everybody else (including dependable, rationale people like Mark Miller) really hurts your creditability.
It's ok to say "I've never seen the kid play, so I don't know how good he is (or will be)"
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The rationale being that defenders are quicker, faster, stronger and above all are more talented
in the BE. Sorry you can't see the reasoning here-----seems pretty clear cut to me.
And becuase of that and the players on our team being bigger faster stonger and more talented he won't be double teamed and is far more likely to be left open in clutch situations. That seems pretty clear cut to me.
Rather have one big strong fast beast guy on me:
So he can leave me to help out his teammate who is being destroyed by james. And then have dj kick it to me for an open jumper. I'd probably have a BETTER percentage shooting that shot than when I have two juco guys on me knowing i'm going to take the shot as the clock winds down..... Come on coach, it's ok to admit that you may have been a little overboard saying he would have shot 10% worse.
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Murffy,
I thought you said B. Williams proved to be a good offensive coach at UNO. Are you flip flopping?
"Muffy" didn't say that Buzz was a "good BB coach" at UNO-----what I said is that his offensive efficiency was very high. But my reference questioning Buzz's offensive coaching ability was based not on my opinion-----but rather on the comments I've read on the UNO message boards----they are brutal!
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Murf,
You are brutal with this one.
You've never seen the kid play, so don't pretend like you are the dude "bringing us all back to reality" with your comments.
Nobody has any idea how Buycks will shoot in the BEAST. He could get better with more open looks and better coaching or he could be worse by playing against tougher/bigger defenders.
There is no way to just look at his stats and know exactly what will happen. Pretending that YOU know better than everybody else (including dependable, rationale people like Mark Miller) really hurts your creditability.
It's ok to say "I've never seen the kid play, so I don't know how good he is (or will be)"
Look, I've been around the game for a long time----and I know that a guy in the vast majority of cases isn't going to shoot better in the BE than he does in JUCO for reasons I have cited several times above (the only excemption would be if he is taught in the meantime how to deliver the ball properly). Completely different culture in the BE vs JUCO.
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And becuase of that and the players on our team being bigger faster stonger and more talented he won't be double teamed and is far more likely to be left open in clutch situations. That seems pretty clear cut to me.
Rather have one big strong fast beast guy on me:
So he can leave me to help out his teammate who is being destroyed by james. And then have dj kick it to me for an open jumper. I'd probably have a BETTER percentage shooting that shot than when I have two juco guys on me knowing i'm going to take the shot as the clock winds down..... Come on coach, it's ok to admit that you may have been a little overboard saying he would have shot 10% worse.
What seems "pretty clear" to you is not so clear to me. First of all you infer that Buyck's was "doubled teamed" in JUCO----well if he was he shouldn't be shooting when doubled teamed as somewhere on the floor as a result of being double teamed there is an open guy somewhere on the floor and Buyks's his job is to find that open guy for the shot.
What makes you think Buyck's didn't have his share of open treys at Indian Hills?----he played on a very good JUCO team!
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Murff, the point is, you never saw him play, you don't know the caliber of players he played with or against, you don't know ANYTHING about him. No one does. To make a blanket statement that he'd probably shoot 15-20% on three-pointers in the BE is absurd.
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Look, I've been around the game for a long time----and I know that a guy in the vast majority of cases isn't going to shoot better in the BE than he does in JUCO for reasons I have cited several times above (the only excemption would be if he is taught in the meantime how to deliver the ball properly). Completely different culture in the BE vs JUCO.
Saying that in "the vast majority of cases a player isn't going to shoot better" is a lot different than simply predicting a player that you have never seen will experience a 10% drop. I tend to agree that Buycks probably won't be as effective at MU as he is in JUCO, however, I have never seen the kid play, so I'm not going to spout off about it and make wild predictions. That would make me a hack.
Murf, you have been around for a long time. If you had seen this kid play a bunch, and formed an educated opinion (Mark Miller, cough cough), I would certainly respect that.
However, just reading some box scores and claiming a kid's shooting percentage will drop by almost 1/3 is silly, and Murf, you are certainly smart enough to know that.
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respect your elders - to murph there is not much difference between a 26% shooter and 15% shooter. In his day, they would both be on the bench.
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Again SJS/84 I must point on to you that I am not refering to two different years----I am referring to the same year. I'm saying that if Bucys played in the BE this past year (Note: THE SAME YEAR) his trey shooting percentage would have been worse the 26% he shot in JUCO. I estimate somewhere between 15-20%.
The rationale being that defenders are quicker, faster, stronger and above all are more talented
in the BE. Sorry you can't see the reasoning here-----seems pretty clear cut to me.
BTW-----don't assume that he'd get better coaching at MU-----the guys on the UNO board would disagree with you!
I'm referring to the same year as well. And I'm sticking to my point.
Let me ask you this--we know Buycks was the best player on his team at IHCC. If you were defeding IHCC, would you focus your attention on Buycks? Or would you treat him as just anohter player. Now, I know you'll dodge this one, so let me answer for you--you'd guard Buycks like files on honey. You'd have at least one if not two guys on him like glue all game long.
Second question: With that type of defense, would you really expect no change in the offensive performance of the player you're defending? Again, you won't answer, so let me do so for you: Of COURSE the shooting percentage would fall. THAT is EXACTLY why you pressure up the defense on the best player on the opposing team. You cite how well Brad Soderberg did so against Dwyane Wade YEARS after the fact. Opposing coaching on IHCC schedule aren't stupid--they know if you clamp down on Buycks, its your best defensive opportunity.
Now, think about MU THIS PAST YEAR. If he were in a lineup with James and Matthews and Hayward and McNeal, would you STILL make Buycks the primary target? Again, I predict you'll dodge the answer, so I'll give it: of COURSE you wouldn't make Buycks the primary defensive target. MU had so many option in the backcourt that you cannot possibly guard him as well.
But let me drive this home for you: Maurice Aacker saw a 10 point IMPROVEMENT in his 3 point shooting--despite moving from the MAC into the BIG EAST. Why do you suppose that was--oh, you'll make some excuse about the fact that he just magically "improved" by 10 points. But if you're honest (and you paid attention to guard play like I do) you'd have noticed that opposing defenders took their chances and left Aaker open while tightly defending McNeal, James, Hayward, Fitzgerald, and Matthews. I submit to you that Buycks would have received the same defensive attention that Aacker received.
No coach in his right mind is going to shift primary defensive attention away from James & McNeal in order to better defend Buycks.
So, let me repeat: Buycks would have shot BETTER than the 26% had he played in the Big East this past year , because
a) he'd have had better coaching
b) the offense would have been more structured resulting in fewer rushed shots.
c) his supporting cast would have been FAR more talented, and would have drawn defensive pressure away from him--he would have seen far fewer double teams as the #5 or 6 option at MU than he would have as the #1 option at IHCC
d) He has a size advantage over most of the PGs and a speed advantage over most of the 2Gs in the league.
***--the guys on the UNO board would disagree with you!
Oh, gee, there's a nice, unbiased source of information!
Furthermore, the UNO fans never saw Layer, Benford or Collins, so why would say they even have a CLUE as to what type of coaching Buycks would receive at MU?
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but rather on the comments I've read on the UNO message boards----they are brutal!
And if someone were to read the MU boards and look at the murf posts, they would think that Marquette was one of the worst programs in NAIA basketball, rather than a top 20 programs in Div 1.
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actually, mviale, a 26% shooter in Murff's day wasn't all that abnormal. Back in the 1950s a 40 percent shooter was considered a deadeye.
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Hence the rebounding records he is so proud of.
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Murff, the point is, you never saw him play, you don't know the caliber of players he played with or against, you don't know ANYTHING about him. No one does. To make a blanket statement that he'd probably shoot 15-20% on three-pointers in the BE is absurd.
Would you grant me that defenses are better in the BE? If you agree, why wouldn't Buyck's trey shooting be worse then in the BE. SJS/84 claims that Buyck's was a marked man in JUCO at 17 ppg-----I don't know of anyone who is a 'marked man" at only 17 ppg. Plus JUCO ball is run and shoot----17 PPG in JUCO is a drop in the proverbial bucket.
That's one of the things that I read on the UNO board-----and that is that "Buzz would recruit JUCO's galore"!
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Just because defenses are better doesn't mean he won't get better shots off because of the talent surrounding him. You may be right in the long run, but to make a blanket statement like you did is faulty. On your theory, Steve Novak's and Travis Diener's shooting percantages should have dropped dramatically when they came out of Wisconsin high schools into Division I basketball. Face it, Murff, if Bo had recruiited him you'd say it was a great get because that stats don't mean anything and the swing offense is so efficient, blah, blah. I guarantee that if he's shooting 15 percent on threes in the first two months of his MU career he won't be firing up too many more.
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Would you grant me that defenses are better in the BE? If you agree, why wouldn't Buyck's trey shooting be worse then in the BE. SJS/84 claims that Buyck's was a marked man in JUCO at 17 ppg-----I don't know of anyone who is a 'marked man" at only 17 ppg. Plus JUCO ball is run and shoot----17 PPG in JUCO is a drop in the proverbial bucket.
Yeah. Run and shoot.
http://www.ottumwadailycourier.com/archivesearch/local_story_078233933.html
IHCC is a team that averaged 66.3 points per game, and gives up 41.9 Run and gun? Not bloody likely.
Really, Murff, it's beginning to show that you don't really know what you're talking about. Every statement you make can be easily disproven with a little common sense or a minute or two with a search engine.
So let the record show that Murff is wrong that Jucos are nothing but run and gun/defense free leagues. IHCC had more games where they scored in the 50s and 60's than in the 80's and 90s. Their offense was only 66.3 points per game, and they gave up 41.9 points per game.
That's O'Neill/Deane/Bennett like performance.
But that's not the only Murff whopper:
***-I don't know of anyone who is a 'marked man" at only 17 ppg.
Funny, I've seen 4th grade rec league coaches take less than three plays to figure out who the other team's best player is and put their best defender on him.
I don't think I've seen basketball at any level where coaches DON'T make that adjustment. But Murff, here, in order to avoid believing the common sense argument that Buycks got the tougest defender on the other team, believes that JUCO coaches are too clueless to bother to take extra effort defend the best player on the other team.
This is difficult to believe coming from a guy who bills himself as "always a coach". Here, he actually expects us to believe that coaches don't bother to adjust.
Then again, he expects us to believe that IHCC opponents--teams that average 44 points and give up 63--are playing a "run and gun/no defense" style of play.
Once again, we see him digging deeper in some ill-fated effort to avoid admitting that you posted without really thinking.
Here's the common sense idea I put forth--Buycks is the best player on his team at IHCC, and probably gets the other teams top defender--a situation that probably wouldn't have happened at MU. Therefore, he might have an easier time getting open looks than he did at IHCC.
To avoid admitting this common sense proposition, we have the silly sight of a supposed coach telling us that other coaches wouldn't bother to do anything special to defend the other team's best player.
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Ok, people votes are in. about 50 to 1 on weather, in this thread, statements by murph made any sense. It's cool, if you continue to fight about it after clearly stateing your opinion it only exasperates the problem.
Now can someone explain why it says he will play in 2009? I thought because he was at juco for academics he had to stay there for two years.
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Ok, people votes are in. about 50 to 1 on weather, in this thread, statements by murph made any sense. It's cool, if you continue to fight about it after clearly stateing your opinion it only exasperates the problem.
Now can someone explain why it says he will play in 2009? I thought because he was at juco for academics he had to stay there for two years.
I believe he only has 1 year left of Juco, which would put him on campus in fall of 2009.
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Now can someone explain why it says he will play in 2009?
Dawg - If you go the recruiting wiki
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball_recruits/start#recent_news
And then click for the "Discussion Here" on the Buycks line, it's all explained :)
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Murf,
You are brutal with this one.
Nobody has any idea how Buycks will shoot in the BEAST. He could get better with more open looks and better coaching or he could be worse by playing against tougher/bigger defenders.
There is no way to just look at his stats and know exactly what will happen. Pretending that YOU know better than everybody else (including dependable, rationale people like Mark Miller) really hurts your creditability.
Connect the dots here------if a guy shoots only 26% in JUCO where contrary to what SJS/84 says there is very little emphasis on defense and where the talent level is low----what is there in that number to indicate he will shoot a better number in the BE where defense IS emphasized and the talent level is far superior to that of JUCO ball!
The burden of proof is on you guys----- (26%) is a lousy number to start with.
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Connect the dots here------if a guy shoots only 26% in JUCO where contrary to what SJS/84 says there is very little emphasis on defense and where the talent level is low----what is there in that number to indicate he will shoot a better number in the BE where defense IS emphasized and the talent level is far superior to that of JUCO ball!
The burden of proof is on you guys----- (26%) is a lousy number to start with.
I know how you are approaching this, but you are smart enough to know there are a ton of variables.
How many shots make up the % (sample size)?
How many shots were under duress, or at the end of the shot/game clock?
Does he have a great stroke off the catch and shoot, but doesn't get the opportunity because he plays point (thus handling the ball)?
Was he injured or dinged up for part of the season?
What did he shoot in high school?
My point is, I don't think you can just expect a kid to shoot 1/3 worse just based upon his box scores. At his age, his percentage really doesn't tell the whole story.
Will the big east be a step up? Certainly.
Is it a good practice to just apply a 1/3 reduction in shooting percentage? Probably not. Too many variables and unknowns.
Also, just to be clear, I never said he would shoot better in the BEAST. I said I wasn't sure discounting his shooting percentage by 1/3 was an accurate statement.