MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: PaintTouches on May 26, 2023, 07:57:21 AM

Title: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: PaintTouches on May 26, 2023, 07:57:21 AM
Lower floor. Same ceiling.

https://painttouches.com/2023/05/26/what-does-omax-decision-to-stay-in-the-nba-draft-mean-for-marquette/ (https://painttouches.com/2023/05/26/what-does-omax-decision-to-stay-in-the-nba-draft-mean-for-marquette/)
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What doe OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: tower912 on May 26, 2023, 08:21:15 AM
Other than disagreeing with the notion that Ross can guard a 4, I really like this.   Thanks.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What doe OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 26, 2023, 08:40:31 AM
Also, this is a good reminder that things can change, resulting in more opportunity. Could a Jop or Gokd or whoever be concerned with playing time? Sure. Very quickly, more minutes can become available at your current school… or disappear at a new school, should you transfer.

#Retention

Believe in yourself, love the program you’re in, and things will often work out just fine
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What doe OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MUfan12 on May 26, 2023, 08:48:45 AM
Other than disagreeing with the notion that Ross can guard a 4, I really like this.   Thanks.

Not for extended periods of time, but he's solid enough to hold his own on a switch.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What doe OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: tower912 on May 26, 2023, 08:55:39 AM
Yes.  However, it was being discussed in the context of a 4 guard set.   So, for the sake of argument, Chase, Kam Stevie, and Tyler are the 4 guards.   The opponent has a 6'10 post, a 6'8 wing, and three guards.  Who guards the 6'8 wing?  Who switches?  How is the rebounding.affected?
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What doe OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 26, 2023, 08:58:50 AM
How is the rebounding.affected?

DReb can’t be much worse, hey
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What doe OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: tower912 on May 26, 2023, 08:59:55 AM
We can hope.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What doe OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 26, 2023, 09:11:59 AM
Also, this is a good reminder that things can change, resulting in more opportunity. Could a Jop or Gokd or whoever be concerned with playing time? Sure. Very quickly, more minutes can become available at your current school… or disappear at a new school, should you transfer.

#Retention

Believe in yourself, love the program you’re in, and things will often work out just fine

Who? There's no one named Gokd on the roster.  ;D
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What doe OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MUfan12 on May 26, 2023, 09:47:16 AM
Yes.  However, it was being discussed in the context of a 4 guard set.   So, for the sake of argument, Chase, Kam Stevie, and Tyler are the 4 guards.   The opponent has a 6'10 post, a 6'8 wing, and three guards.  Who guards the 6'8 wing?  Who switches?  How is the rebounding.affected?

If last year was any indication they all will at some point. Assuming Shaka rolls with the returning guys, this is what I'm most interested in going into next year. OMax unlocked a lot of things defensively that will be hard to replicate. Does the staff adjust by playing a little more vanilla? Ben got cooked whenever he got switched out on the perimeter last year. Jop isn't terribly quick laterally either.

I'm skeptical as well of seeing four guard lineups for anything other than a few possessions.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MU82 on May 26, 2023, 09:54:32 AM
Sam Vecenie of The Athletic now has Prosper at #25 on his board, but he also says Marquette is still a top-10 team even without O-Max.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: jfp61 on May 26, 2023, 09:58:12 AM
Sam Vecenie of The Athletic now has Prosper at #25 on his board, but he also says Marquette is still a top-10 team even without O-Max.
i mean... yes, but their is a difference between 3/4 and 9/10/11.

I get why people would be bummed out.

granted, i think omax's decision was obvious
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 26, 2023, 10:50:37 AM
i mean... yes, but their is a difference between 3/4 and 9/10/11.

There
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MuggsyB on May 26, 2023, 11:26:41 AM
Shaka is looking for the right replacement.  It's a loss but we will be fine and may get a hammer addition. 
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Goose on May 26, 2023, 11:31:06 AM
Muggsy

The right addition will raise the ceiling.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: cheebs09 on May 26, 2023, 11:34:19 AM
Muggsy

The right addition will raise the ceiling.

That could be true, but I find it hard to get a higher ceiling than OMax would have given us. We are a national title contender with him. I think we can still be with a solid transfer.

Although, I don’t know how we’d be able to raise the ceiling with a transfer versus an NBA prospect that would be in his 3rd year in the program.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MuggsyB on May 26, 2023, 11:35:34 AM
Muggsy

The right addition will raise the ceiling.

I'm disappointed but I'm sure Shaka anticipated this.  I believe the opportunity will be there to find a nice addition to our roster. 
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: jfp61 on May 26, 2023, 11:37:15 AM
Muggsy

The right addition will raise the ceiling.

Yes, Julian Philips would raise the ceiling.


Any other addition. Would raise the floor
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: The Lens on May 26, 2023, 11:39:29 AM
I'm not concerned filling the hole from within, bc it's the only hole we have to fill.  If Oso left and Kam transferred then the draft & develop plan gets exposed but one roster spot lost?  That's sustainable.  Gold, Jop & Ross will all make big strides year over year.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 26, 2023, 12:29:36 PM
If the ceiling is the national championship, nothing has changed. We should still have a significantly better offense & while O-Max's one-on-one defense seems irreplaceable, there was also consternation about the defensive losses of Morsell & Kuath. We could still have improved team defense even without a designated stopper like O-Max.

That isn't to say this isn't a big loss. You don't lose a guy who's being projected as a starter & borderline first round draft pick and not consider it a loss. But the system and pieces have the ability to overcome it.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MU82 on May 26, 2023, 12:59:26 PM
i mean... yes, but their is a difference between 3/4 and 9/10/11.

Right now, they are just numbers spat out as conversation pieces. Some argue that rankings are always meaningless; I'm not in that group but I'd certainly argue that rankings in May aren't very meaningful. We'll see what the rankings are -- and more importantly, how Marquette actually plays -- when we get into next season.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 26, 2023, 01:29:46 PM
I’m afraid Marquette will be in a lot of trap games now
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: GB Warrior on May 26, 2023, 01:31:10 PM
How lucky are we that we get to bring the BE 6th man into the starting lineup so Gold can be next year's 6th man
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: cheebs09 on May 26, 2023, 01:32:46 PM
How lucky are we that we get to bring the BE 6th man into the starting lineup so Gold can be next year's 6th man

It appears you spelled Chase Ross wrong. 🚀 🚀 🚀
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: bilsu on May 26, 2023, 01:59:38 PM
What was our final defensive ranking last year?
A good coach adjusts his team to the talent he has.
Maybe we play a more solid halfcourt defense.
I understand the value of having Prosper cover all over the floor, but it does not necessarily mean our defense overall will not be better without him.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MU82 on May 26, 2023, 02:26:11 PM
I understand the value of having Prosper cover all over the floor, but it does not necessarily mean our defense overall will not be better without him.

Yeah, but it doesn't not not mean that it won't not be not better, either.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: lawdog77 on May 26, 2023, 02:29:54 PM
Yeah, but it doesn't not not mean that it won't not be not better, either.
This statement has me all tied up in nots
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: tower912 on May 26, 2023, 02:45:16 PM
I don't know if it is defensible.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MuggsyB on May 26, 2023, 02:47:15 PM
I'm most excited to see the development of our Frosh and do think Jop is more than capable of stepping it up.  Let's also not forget the potential for Leviathan seasons for Oso, Kam, and Tyko.  I think this team will be just fine and highly, highly, motivated. 
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Shooter McGavin on May 26, 2023, 03:08:51 PM
I’m afraid Marquette will be in a lot of trap games now

That’s my biggest fear as well Rico.;)
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Herman Cain on May 26, 2023, 04:28:33 PM
Omax going pro is a very good thing for MU Program. We have depth who will get more opportunities. Signals to recruits they are in a good place with their basketball career if they choose MU.

Also can't look at O Max leaving in a vacuum, there are going to be approximately 60-70 ( depending on how many foreign are drafted) players  leaving other college programs.

 
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: bilsu on May 26, 2023, 10:07:12 PM
Yeah, but it doesn't not not mean that it won't not be not better, either.
won't not?
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: muwarrior69 on May 27, 2023, 07:30:12 AM
Yeah, but it doesn't not not mean that it won't not be not better, either.

This statement has me all tied up in nots

82 for Vice President!
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Scoop Snoop on May 27, 2023, 09:03:39 AM
Yeah, but it doesn't not not mean that it won't not be not better, either.

To be, or not to be. That is the question.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: The Lens on May 27, 2023, 10:50:15 AM
I'm most excited to see the development of our Frosh and do think Jop is more than capable of stepping it up. 



The best thing about freshmen is they become sophomores.

— Al McGuire
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: 79Warrior on May 27, 2023, 03:39:41 PM

The best thing about freshmen is they become sophomores.

— Al McGuire

Oddly enough, during a fair amount of Al's career Freshmen were not eligible to play. I think that came into effect in 1972.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Shooter McGavin on May 27, 2023, 06:18:18 PM
Very good article.  Thanks for your work.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: bilsu on May 27, 2023, 08:00:33 PM
Oddly enough, during a fair amount of Al's career Freshmen were not eligible to play. I think that came into effect in 1972.
Tatum was the first player eligible to play as a freshman.
Al originally said the best thing about sophomores was they became juniors. Changed when freshmen became eligible.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: We R Final Four on May 27, 2023, 08:49:31 PM
Shaka is looking for the right replacement.  It's a loss but we will be fine and may get a hammer addition.
He is? Where? From his current roster? Yes.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Warrior of Law on May 28, 2023, 06:19:39 PM
Is there a current list of eligible transfers? My guess is that Shaka and crew knew about O-Max quite some time ago, and (hopefully) have a plan. An Ed Morrow-type would fit the mold.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 28, 2023, 06:32:21 PM
I can't imagine Ed Morrow playing in Shaka's system.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: jfp61 on May 28, 2023, 06:42:57 PM
I can't imagine Ed Morrow playing in Shaka's system.
Senior year of Ed Morrow was worse than Freshman year Chase Ross.

I'd rather just play small than have a Morrow.

We spent an entire year with Jae as our center. We can be play without Oso for 15 mpg.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: HutchwasClutch on May 28, 2023, 07:09:28 PM
Senior year of Ed Morrow was worse than Freshman year Chase Ross.

I'd rather just play small than have a Morrow.

We spent an entire year with Jae as our center. We can be play without Oso for 15 mpg.

What, Ross was the garbage standard on the team this past season.  Wtf?
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 28, 2023, 07:12:30 PM
What, Ross was the garbage standard on the team this past season.  Wtf?

I had a tough time telling if that was meant to be a dis or compliment to Chase. I settled on "Chase last year was already better than senior year Morrow." While the wording could've been better, I imagine it was meant to be positive for Chase.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: HutchwasClutch on May 28, 2023, 07:16:26 PM
I had a tough time telling if that was meant to be a dis or compliment to Chase. I settled on "Chase last year was already better than senior year Morrow." While the wording could've been better, I imagine it was meant to be positive for Chase.

Comparing anything to Morrow, especially his last year when he stunk and then quit on the team I sure read as a negative.  And a cheap shot on a freshman who played well and showed a lot of upside when given the opportunity.   Plus was trusted by Shaka all season, no matter the opponent or game situation. 
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 28, 2023, 07:28:02 PM
His point was that a freshman Chase was better than a senior Morrow, so you might as well go small than take a Morrow-like transfer.

I agree.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 28, 2023, 07:28:13 PM
Ed was one of those guys that peaked early and then slowly regressed as his college career went on. He was worth taking a shot on, but it didn't work out; it happens. And yes, he quit his senior year, but he had fallen to third on the depth chart at C.

From a team perspective, his quitting had no detrimental effect. From an individual standpoint, I totally get why he chose to focus on his future rather than basketball where he had a less than marginal impact.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: jfp61 on May 28, 2023, 08:11:51 PM
What, Ross was the garbage standard on the team this past season.  Wtf?

If i said Sean or Ben Gold. I would have gotten into some weird debate between an Okay center who quit on his team and two guys who played below average as freshmen.


I didn't want to do that.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Nukem2 on May 28, 2023, 08:19:12 PM
Ed was one of those guys that peaked early and then slowly regressed as his college career went on. He was worth taking a shot on, but it didn't work out; it happens. And yes, he quit his senior year, but he had fallen to third on the depth chart at C.

From a team perspective, his quitting had no detrimental effect. From an individual standpoint, I totally get why he chose to focus on his future rather than basketball where he had a less than marginal impact.
What you are forgetting here were Ed’s injuries while at MU. Those injuries really affected his play. He certainly was not a major player in any event, but those injuries did seriously impact whatever impact he may have had otherwise. But, he certainly would not fit the Shaka mold.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: WarriorFan on May 28, 2023, 08:37:38 PM
Good for OMAX if he makes it in the league, but I remain constant in my view that he was the weakest link among the starters last year.  Tough to replace his length but considering that he spent 40% of his time on his butt, that length was often not available for use. 

Next man up.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 28, 2023, 08:56:19 PM
Good for OMAX if he makes it in the league, but I remain constant in my view that he was the weakest link among the starters last year.

Being dedicated to a bad take is at least honorable.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: El Guerrero 2 on May 28, 2023, 09:04:22 PM
Good for OMAX if he makes it in the league, but I remain constant in my view that he was the weakest link among the starters last year.  Tough to replace his length but considering that he spent 40% of his time on his butt, that length was often not available for use. 

Next man up.

I get that OMax was frustrating at times, but you appear to give him no credit for guarding our opponent’s best player every night.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: tower912 on May 28, 2023, 09:05:15 PM
Falling up, now.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 28, 2023, 10:13:09 PM
I get that OMax was frustrating at times, but you appear to give him no credit for guarding our opponent’s best player every night.

IIRC, Warriorfan was of the belief that OMax was a poor defender. He was very lonely on that hill.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: WarriorFan on May 28, 2023, 11:04:01 PM
IIRC, Warriorfan was of the belief that OMax was a poor defender. He was very lonely on that hill.
Yes, and that he only had good offensive nights against bad teams.

I'm just saying, MU might even be better without him.  5 guys who stay home on D, don't get lost, guard their man, make the right rotations... 

I'm going to own my position... when he makes the all-star team I'll admit I was wrong.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: genious expert on May 28, 2023, 11:13:16 PM
Yes, and that he only had good offensive nights against bad teams.

I'm just saying, MU might even be better without him.  5 guys who stay home on D, don't get lost, guard their man, make the right rotations... 

I'm going to own my position... when he makes the all-star team I'll admit I was wrong.

O-Max was the leading scorer against Baylor and Michigan State.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: wadesworld on May 28, 2023, 11:15:13 PM
Yes, and that he only had good offensive nights against bad teams.

I'm just saying, MU might even be better without him.  5 guys who stay home on D, don't get lost, guard their man, make the right rotations... 

I'm going to own my position... when he makes the all-star team I'll admit I was wrong.

So you think Kolek, Kam, Stevie, and Oso will make NBA All Star teams in their basketball careers?
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: barfolomew on May 28, 2023, 11:48:05 PM
One should not explain the forest to a dog that barks up the wrong tree.

I'm happy for O-Max showing out at the combine, because landing with an NBA team is the best possible outcome of leaving MU with remaining eligibility.

That said, for this season's team, it does leave a hole.
The good news is that hole is fillable in several ways:

1) Chase Ross
2) Ben Gold
3) Impact Transfer
4) Stevie Mitchell's Report Card
5) Ben Gold on Chase Ross' shoulders

My personal opinion is that Shaka rides with the guys he has, and Stevie's Report Card ends up redshirting (cuz it's on the 5.0 year plan).

Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 29, 2023, 12:16:44 AM
Comparing anything to Morrow, especially his last year when he stunk and then quit on the team I sure read as a negative.  And a cheap shot on a freshman who played well and showed a lot of upside when given the opportunity.   Plus was trusted by Shaka all season, no matter the opponent or game situation.

It read remotely nothing like a cheap shot.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on May 29, 2023, 12:18:58 AM

I'm going to own my position... when he makes the all-star team I'll admit I was wrong.

 ::) :o
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MU82 on May 29, 2023, 07:27:25 AM
Yes, and that he only had good offensive nights against bad teams.

I'm just saying, MU might even be better without him.  5 guys who stay home on D, don't get lost, guard their man, make the right rotations... 

I'm going to own my position... when he makes the all-star team I'll admit I was wrong.

You're already wrong, and most of this is just silly.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 29, 2023, 07:54:41 AM
Good for OMAX if he makes it in the league, but I remain constant in my view that he was the weakest link among the starters last year.  Tough to replace his length but considering that he spent 40% of his time on his butt, that length was often not available for use. 

Next man up.
Boum and Hawkins opinions probably differ.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: brewcity77 on May 29, 2023, 08:03:21 AM
I'm just saying, MU might even be better without him.

They might well be, but it won't be because he's gone. Joplin or Gold could become an all-Big East forward. Chase could go from seventh man to the lottery pick off the bench. Tyler and Oso could continue to improve to the point where the only BEPOY question is which Marquette player is more deserving. One of the freshmen could be the rare sub-50 recruit that puts up a first round draft pick season, like Taylor Hendricks did for UCF. Or we could add a transfer that mitigates the loss.

We could be better without O-Max, but I'm positive we won't be better because he isn't here.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: We R Final Four on May 29, 2023, 09:06:08 AM
Chase could go from seventh man to the lottery pick off the bench.

Really? Yeah
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: jfp61 on May 29, 2023, 09:39:25 AM
5 guys who stay home on D, don't get lost, guard their man, make the right rotations... 

Wait one second.... So Joplin is supposed to help with these things.  :-X

Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Jay Bee on May 29, 2023, 10:22:38 AM
Ed Morrow couldn’t play for us now because he excels at rebounding

Wasn’t there a chase down block he had Vs uw Madison? Can someone find the clip online? I might be imagining this; lots of ribs yesterday
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on May 29, 2023, 12:12:06 PM
There was a chase down block...however, it occurred AFTER he let Happ get completely away from him.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: lawdog77 on May 29, 2023, 01:17:22 PM
I get that OMax was frustrating at times, but you appear to give him no credit for guarding our opponent’s best player every night.
Except he didnt do that every game. Stevie handled that duty some nights as well.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: jfp61 on May 29, 2023, 02:15:04 PM
Ed Morrow couldn’t play for us now because he excels at rebounding

Wasn’t there a chase down block he had Vs uw Madison? Can someone find the clip online? I might be imagining this; lots of ribs yesterday

high blk%
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: dgies9156 on May 30, 2023, 10:26:12 AM
All right, I'm happy for OMax and hope he has a wonderful professional career.

I can't say I'm not disappointed a little though. I was hoping he would be back next year. It seems like every time we get to the edge of something really good, something like this happens. From Dwyane Wade leaving with one year left (don't blame him), to Vander Blue, to OMax and, going back, to Jim Chones and Maurice Lucas, we're on the cusp of something special and then someone turns pro.

If Blue stayed (and he should have), we would have been something special. Instead, we had a middling team with no point guard.

If Chones and Lucas had stayed, there would be at least one and maybe two more banners hanging next to 1977.

If Wade had stayed one more year, there might be yet another banner!

I get this is the way of the world and I get that NBA millions is worth leaving school. But as a die-hard Warrior, I really wanted a chance at another Final Four next year. We might still get it -- in Shaka I Trust -- but darn, it will be a little harder.

Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MUfan12 on May 30, 2023, 11:22:41 AM
If Blue stayed (and he should have), we would have been something special. Instead, we had a middling team with no point guard.

If Chones and Lucas had stayed, there would be at least one and maybe two more banners hanging next to 1977.

If Wade had stayed one more year, there might be yet another banner!

I get this is the way of the world and I get that NBA millions is worth leaving school. But as a die-hard Warrior, I really wanted a chance at another Final Four next year. We might still get it -- in Shaka I Trust -- but darn, it will be a little harder.

I wasn't around for Chones or Lucas, but I don't know if I agree on Vander/Wade.

That 03-04 team was an absolute trainwreck. Chemistry was awful, the freshmen raised all sorts of hell. They definitely make the tournament with Wade, but also never really replaced big Rob.

in 13-14 Buzz had one foot out the door. It's hard to say if Vander could have played point effectively enough to get them over the hump in those close games they lost.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Scoop Snoop on May 30, 2023, 12:13:11 PM
All right, I'm happy for OMax and hope he has a wonderful professional career.

I can't say I'm not disappointed a little though. I was hoping he would be back next year. It seems like every time we get to the edge of something really good, something like this happens. From Dwyane Wade leaving with one year left (don't blame him), to Vander Blue, to OMax and, going back, to Jim Chones and Maurice Lucas, we're on the cusp of something special and then someone turns pro.

If Blue stayed (and he should have), we would have been something special. Instead, we had a middling team with no point guard.

If Chones and Lucas had stayed, there would be at least one and maybe two more banners hanging next to 1977.

If Wade had stayed one more year, there might be yet another banner!

I get this is the way of the world and I get that NBA millions is worth leaving school. But as a die-hard Warrior, I really wanted a chance at another Final Four next year. We might still get it -- in Shaka I Trust -- but darn, it will be a little harder.

I hear you dgies, but of course every team in the NCAA has to deal with the early exits. However, with the way Shaka is building his teams-synergy is the best word I can come up with-we may have an edge vs. other teams. Our other 4 starters are coming back. I think this will be the pattern going forward- maybe lose one (hopefully not two) per year from a strong team but have our remaining players stay on. Maybe I am being naive, but I think that along with the understandable draw of making money as a pro somewhere, some players who are either "just OK" or unhappy with their teammates and coaches are a little more likely to leave their school.,
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: El Guerrero 2 on May 30, 2023, 12:33:18 PM
From Dwyane Wade leaving with one year left (don't blame him), to Vander Blue, to OMax and, going back, to Jim Chones and Maurice Lucas, we're on the cusp of something special and then someone turns pro.

If Blue stayed (and he should have), we would have been something special. Instead, we had a middling team with no point guard.

If Chones and Lucas had stayed, there would be at least one and maybe two more banners hanging next to 1977.

If Wade had stayed one more year, there might be yet another banner!


Dwelling on Wade going pro in 2003 makes about as much sense as fretting about why Wemby hasn’t committed to Shaka yet. Blue’s decision to go pro was frustrating because it was obvious that he needed to show out for another year in order to get drafted, but that’s the risk you take when cheering for a bunch of 20 year old basketball players. And we might not have the ‘77 banner if Al doesn’t demonstrate his unconditional support of his players by backing Chones going to the ABA.

I’m mostly glad that we’re back to the point where we have to worry about our players leaving school early… it’s a good problem to have.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 30, 2023, 12:43:42 PM
82 for Vice President!





Nah, slide 'im right into da Buffoon's spot. We'd all sleep a little better, hey?
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 30, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
It's inevitable that teams these days are going to lose players. It may be disappointing, but if we're losing them to the NBA, things are trending in the right direction.

Good luck, OMax! Thanks for being a Warrior!
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: bilsu on May 30, 2023, 03:16:43 PM
We would be better with Omax.
However, I think we are fine without Omax.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: dgies9156 on May 31, 2023, 07:43:35 AM
Dwelling on Wade going pro in 2003 makes about as much sense as fretting about why Wemby hasn’t committed to Shaka yet. Blue’s decision to go pro was frustrating because it was obvious that he needed to show out for another year in order to get drafted, but that’s the risk you take when cheering for a bunch of 20 year old basketball players. And we might not have the ‘77 banner if Al doesn’t demonstrate his unconditional support of his players by backing Chones going to the ABA.

I’m mostly glad that we’re back to the point where we have to worry about our players leaving school early… it’s a good problem to have.

Brother Guerrero:

I think you miss my point. I'm not dwelling on Wade turning pro as much as I am lamenting the notion that as we have something special, too often something happens.

I agree that it's wonderful that we're debating about the NBA readiness of our players -- especially when we are talking about a guy who was the fourth best of our five starters last year. Next year still intrigues me but, instead of having what many think was a Top 5 team, we probably have a team that barely cracks the Top 10. After seven years of Coach Wojo, I promise that's a good thing.

Coach Shaka has done a wonderful thing for us and has us back on the road to "being Marquette!" All of you who didn't live through the 1970s will experience something special in the coming years! I can promise, you'll get really spoiled really quickly!
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Viper on June 01, 2023, 10:11:43 AM
Brother Guerrero:

I think you miss my point. I'm not dwelling on Wade turning pro as much as I am lamenting the notion that as we have something special, too often something happens.

I agree that it's wonderful that we're debating about the NBA readiness of our players -- especially when we are talking about a guy who was the fourth best of our five starters last year. Next year still intrigues me but, instead of having what many think was a Top 5 team, we probably have a team that barely cracks the Top 10. After seven years of Coach Wojo, I promise that's a good thing.

Coach Shaka has done a wonderful thing for us and has us back on the road to "being Marquette!" All of you who didn't live through the 1970s will experience something special in the coming years! I can promise, you'll get really spoiled really quickly!
100%. I’m all for MU guys making it as pro’s, but frustrating to lose a player just when the pinnacle (F4) seems attainable. Still might happen with this team, but like our odds better if Omax had returned.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: El Guerrero 2 on June 01, 2023, 01:03:28 PM
Brother Guerrero:

I think you miss my point. I'm not dwelling on Wade turning pro as much as I am lamenting the notion that as we have something special, too often something happens.

I guess I just don’t view a talented player who played well for MU going pro as “something happening” or bad luck even. It’s just the natural consequence of having a good program. Dom James getting hurt right before the tourney was bad luck to bemoan. Hauser gate was bad personnel management that makes you want to tear your hair out. OMax working hard to turn himself into a first round pick is just something to celebrate.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: Jay Bee on June 01, 2023, 04:07:15 PM
OMax working hard to turn himself into a first round pick is just something to celebrate.

*potential first round pick
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on June 01, 2023, 05:01:51 PM
I think I've been higher on OMax than most since he got to Marquette 2 years ago, so maybe that's why I'm over-exaggerating, but I think the absence of his athleticism and defensive ability is going to really be a hole in Marquette's roster.

I think Joplin and Gold are great at what they do, but neither replicate anything close to OMax.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: MU82 on June 01, 2023, 05:48:50 PM
I think I've been higher on OMax than most since he got to Marquette 2 years ago, so maybe that's why I'm over-exaggerating, but I think the absence of his athleticism and defensive ability is going to really be a hole in Marquette's roster.

I think Joplin and Gold are great at what they do, but neither replicate anything close to OMax.

Most here valued O-Max’s defense very much. It absolutely will be missed, as will his energy overall. Optimists hope that others will have improved - as so many Marquette players (including O-Max) did this past season - to adequately replace him in the lineup next season.

We have several good players returning, including the Big East POY, an all-conference scorer, a gifted big, a defensive standout and the top BE 6th man. We are well-positioned to have another great season.
Title: Re: [Paint Touches] What does OMax' decision mean for MU?
Post by: PointWarrior on June 01, 2023, 08:04:12 PM
Loved Omax, but it should help some having 5 players standing more often on the court.