MUScoop

MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Herman Cain on May 15, 2023, 09:05:20 AM

Title: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Herman Cain on May 15, 2023, 09:05:20 AM
2023 PGA Championship at Oak Hill in Rochester NY. Should be a challenging course.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-championship-2023-top-100-golfers-competing-at-oak-hill-ranked
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: 🏀 on May 15, 2023, 09:30:18 AM
Hearing whiffs of Winged Foot, which is not a good thing.

I predict a relative snoozer, with an electric finish on Sunday.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Herman Cain on May 15, 2023, 10:12:30 AM
Hearing whiffs of Winged Foot, which is not a good thing.

I predict a relative snoozer, with an electric finish on Sunday.
Here is commentary from Kerry Haigh, who is responsible for the course set up
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/oak-hill-pga-championship-kerry-haigh-course-setup/
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: 🏀 on May 15, 2023, 10:31:57 AM
Here is commentary from Kerry Haigh, who is responsible for the course set up
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/oak-hill-pga-championship-kerry-haigh-course-setup/

https://thefriedegg.com/course-profile-oak-hill-country-club-east-course/
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Herman Cain on May 16, 2023, 08:32:40 AM
John Daly withdraws due to injury

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/golf-legend-john-daly-withdraws-pga-championship-injury
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 18, 2023, 11:41:28 AM
Frost delay.   A reminder that it will be difficult to return to Whistling Straits in May.    Maybe global warning can change that.

Tomorrow will be a long day.   Likely that the second round finishes Saturday.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 18, 2023, 11:47:12 AM
We will see, but after Herbert Kohler died, I don't think hosting major events in Kohler is as much of an interest as it used to be - for both parties.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 18, 2023, 12:12:35 PM
And before Muggsy asks, a course that long and rough that thick.... nobody on this board breaks 100 without Mulligans.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Herman Cain on May 18, 2023, 12:46:26 PM
Two years in a row the May PGA date has produced cold weather
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 18, 2023, 01:17:20 PM
I thought one of the reasons that they wanted to move to May was to play more southern courses since that can be difficult in August. But looking at their future sites, they have a couple that are southern, but not a lot.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: RJax55 on May 18, 2023, 02:24:56 PM
I thought one of the reasons that they wanted to move to May was to play more southern courses since that can be difficult in August. But looking at their future sites, they have a couple that are southern, but not a lot.

Pure spin. The reason it is in May now is due to the NFL and Fed Ex.

They needed the PGA out of their traditional second week of August calendar date in order for the Fed Ex Cup playoff to finish prior to the NFL season starting.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on May 18, 2023, 02:26:18 PM
Pure spin. The reason it is in May now is due to the NFL and Fed Ex.

They needed the PGA out of their traditional second week of August calendar date in order for the Fed Ex Cup playoff to finish prior to the NFL season starting.

OK that makes sense. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Herman Cain on May 19, 2023, 02:35:02 AM
Slimmed down DeChartcuterie posts a -4 under tough conditions
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 19, 2023, 05:33:57 PM
bounce back day two for Brooks
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 19, 2023, 06:51:15 PM
You would think Hovland one of these times would cash in?  He's had some rough 4th rounds.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 19, 2023, 06:53:28 PM
25 years old.   He has a few years to figure it out.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Herman Cain on May 19, 2023, 09:44:36 PM
You would think Hovland one of these times would cash in?  He's had some rough 4th rounds.
He is consistently in the running. Eventually things will break his way.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: JWags85 on May 19, 2023, 10:12:41 PM
25 years old.   He has a few years to figure it out.

Yep.  Turned pro in mid 2019.  So 2022 was his first true, non-COVID impacted season on Tour.  He's getting his groove.  2 consecutive major Top 10s and now in contention for a 3rd.  Oh and back to back top 10s in the Players. 

If he's playing like this with no majors in 5-10 years?  Then maybe we chat.  Otherwise, he's one of the brightest young stars around.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2023, 08:04:10 AM
Root for Michael Block.   
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2023, 08:37:15 AM
British Open conditions.   

The rough is going to be even more of a nightmare.

Rain gloves are wonderful.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 20, 2023, 08:50:41 AM
Root for Michael Block.

+1
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 20, 2023, 09:46:58 AM
Oak Hill renovation is brilliant.  Robert Trent Jones, Jr. is a butcher.

Still, roll the ball back
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2023, 10:23:12 AM
Nah.  Accept the improvement in equipment.   Accept that these guys are really good.   Grow some rough, narrow some fairways.   And enjoy the birdie fests when they happen.

Merion is 7000 yards and +1 won the thing.

How many players under particular at Oak Hill through 2?   How many do you think finish that way?
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 20, 2023, 12:26:23 PM
Nah.  Accept the improvement in equipment.   Accept that these guys are really good.   Grow some rough, narrow some fairways.   And enjoy the birdie fests when they happen.

Merion is 7000 yards and +1 won the thing.

How many players under particular at Oak Hill through 2?   How many do you think finish that way?

Bifurcation

Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2023, 12:31:35 PM
Nah.  There is so much better ....
Physical conditioning
Optimizing swing metrics as they relate to launch, spin, descent angle, shaft tech, face tech.
There are already limits on COR, head size, ball distance when hit by a robot at a controlled speed.

Technology has found  ways to maximize performance within those parameters.    All that changing the ball performance parameters for the pros will do is to challenge the OEM's to maximize the performance of the other equipment.   There will be tour specific shafts and heads.   The R@D for which will trickle down to the consumer.

What happened when they changed the rules on wedge grooves?   Ultimately nothing.   
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 20, 2023, 01:09:47 PM
More long irons.  More skill
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2023, 02:32:16 PM
Hybrids. 7-9 woods.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 20, 2023, 04:50:09 PM
Root for Michael Block.

How do you not root for this guy?  Amazing. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2023, 05:44:12 PM
Koepka in terminator mode.   He is healthy and focused.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 20, 2023, 05:57:27 PM
Go Viktor
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 20, 2023, 06:22:36 PM
Koepka in terminator mode.   He is healthy and focused.

Had a heck of a round today.  Hopefully Hovland read my comments yesterday and gets it done. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2023, 06:28:52 PM
Yes, I am sure your comments focused him.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 20, 2023, 06:32:50 PM
Yes, I am sure your comments focused him.

They focus me
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 20, 2023, 06:53:47 PM
People lose focus constantly.  It's disappointing. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Herman Cain on May 20, 2023, 07:51:51 PM
Rooting for Koepka to win his third PGA
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 21, 2023, 08:20:46 AM
Rooting for Koepka to win his third PGA

Focused Brooks is fun to watch.  However, his disrespect for the rules and etiquette of golf at Augusta in April would make him an unworthy champ.  Quite frankly, it’s disappointing the PGA of America let him play.  He should have been suspended a minimum of a year by all tours and golf governing bodies
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 11:57:26 AM
I want Michael Block to finish top 4.   That gets him to Augusta next spring.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 12:02:44 PM
Rory or Scheffy could go low?
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 12:15:33 PM
I think a 65 is out there.   I don't think Koepka spits the bit again.   Someone is going to have to beat him.   
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 21, 2023, 12:47:00 PM
I think a 65 is out there.   I don't think Koepka spits the bit again.   Someone is going to have to beat him.   

If he truly wants to honor Greg Norman, he’ll spit the bit
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2023, 12:50:13 PM
If he truly wants to honor Greg Norman, he’ll spit the bit

Outstanding.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 12:53:58 PM
If he truly wants to honor Greg Norman, he’ll spit the bit

Bwahahahahahaha
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 01:43:51 PM
Sheffler can't putt.

Is Koepka going to slow play Hovland?
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 01:57:44 PM
We can get along with our day.   No one is catching Koepka.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 21, 2023, 02:15:43 PM
We can get along with our day.   No one is catching Koepka.

It’s ovah
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2023, 02:31:44 PM
We can get along with our day.   No one is catching Koepka.

Viktor says not so fast
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 02:34:28 PM
Koepka with a massive brain fart.

3 wood or driving iron on 6.  Make them catch you.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 02:57:23 PM
I think a 65 is out there.   
Cam Smith with a 65.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 03:20:33 PM
Viktor seizes the tournament on the B9?
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 03:52:50 PM
Unreal bunker shot by Koepka there. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 04:08:50 PM
Koepka looks like he's in control. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 04:10:59 PM
Kiss of death when you say it.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2023, 04:13:14 PM
Block just got a hole-in-1. How cool is that?
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 04:13:33 PM
OMG!!
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2023, 04:13:55 PM
Slam dunk!
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 04:15:32 PM
Too bad it wasn't shown live.  On the fly!!!
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 04:16:16 PM
That made me misty.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2023, 04:17:23 PM
Block just got a hole-in-1. How cool is that?

Exclamation point on a great story!
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 04:20:10 PM
Whoa.....potential meltdown coming for BK?
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 04:24:17 PM
The muggsy jinx.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 04:25:16 PM
Damn.  Still not over though I guess. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 04:25:55 PM
The muggsy jinx.

I have a strategy. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 04:27:18 PM
Have you ever seen a fly in not touch the flagstick?  Wow.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 04:32:18 PM
Ughhhh.....problems. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 04:49:54 PM
Sheffler can't putt.



They just said Sheffler has not made a putt longer than 15 feet this week.


I can relate
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: cheebs09 on May 21, 2023, 04:57:03 PM
That might be ball game.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 04:57:31 PM
Sweet Jesus!!  It's over. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 04:58:30 PM
(Howard Cosell voice)
....DOWN GOES HOVLAND....DOWN GOES HOVLAND....
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 21, 2023, 05:01:20 PM
(Howard Cosell voice)
....DOWN GOES HOVLAND....DOWN GOES HOVLAND....

Knew Rahm would clip Brooks at Augusta because Rahm is a bully, too.  Hovland played fine for the most part but isn’t in Rahm’s stratosphere.  You beat Brooks by bullying back
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 05:02:40 PM
The exact same mistake Conners made yesterday.


Yeah, it is over.


Got a little misty again.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 05:17:35 PM
A few 65's out there today.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Herman Cain on May 21, 2023, 05:39:21 PM
Delighted to see Koepka win. He is healthy and back in form .
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 05:42:28 PM
I was a fan prior to a year ago.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 05:47:43 PM
Delighted to see Koepka win. He is healthy and back in form .

Herman, the LIV/PGA split it terrible for the sport imo. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2023, 06:14:42 PM
When healthy hes arguably the best in the world so it wasnt exactly going out on a limb. But coming into this week I just knew Brooks was gonna take it.

5 majors is a hell of a resume before you hit your mid 30s
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 06:25:24 PM
I rooted like hell for Rahm at Augusta.   Today, I felt that Koepka was unstoppable, so I let the LIV stuff go and accepted the inevitable.    However, if a non-LIV player had made a charge I would have latched on.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Herman Cain on May 21, 2023, 06:29:47 PM
Herman, the LIV/PGA split it terrible for the sport imo.
Muggsy:

My focus is on the players I like to follow. So I follow them no matter what tour they are on.  The dispute between the two tours will eventually be resolved.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 06:39:49 PM
I rooted like hell for Rahm at Augusta.   Today, I felt that Koepka was unstoppable, so I let the LIV stuff go and accepted the inevitable.    However, if a non-LIV player had made a charge I would have latched on.

I don't see the reasoning of letting things go because a guy is supposedly unstoppable.   You root for or against people or teams you like or don't, correct?  Why the sudden acceptance or bandwagonning? 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: rocket surgeon on May 21, 2023, 06:46:59 PM
Muggsy:

My focus is on the players I like to follow. So I follow them no matter what tour they are on.  The dispute between the two tours will eventually be resolved.

  i'm with ya on this one hermie!  i love to see good golf!  i believe koepka got the media shaft back when he was tearing it up.  yes, he can come across with an attitude, but he deserved much better.  substitute rory for what brooks did from 2017-2019 they would have that chris matthews thrill thingy running up their legs making even jeff toobin blush
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 06:51:14 PM
Muggsy:

My focus is on the players I like to follow. So I follow them no matter what tour they are on.  The dispute between the two tours will eventually be resolved.

Fair enough Herman.  Personally I never cared for the guy and do admit I hold grudges
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: tower912 on May 21, 2023, 07:14:22 PM
I don't see the reasoning of letting things go because a guy is supposedly unstoppable.   You root for or against people or teams you like or don't, correct?  Why the sudden acceptance or bandwagonning?
I wasn't rooting for Koepka.   I wasn't passionately rooting against Koepka.   To me, the outcome was inevitable, so why waste energy railing against the sunrise?
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on May 21, 2023, 07:17:49 PM
I wasn't rooting for Koepka.   I wasn't passionately rooting against Koepka.   To me, the outcome was inevitable, so why waste energy railing against the sunrise?

I misread your post.  My apologies Tower. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 21, 2023, 08:36:37 PM
Herman, the LIV/PGA split it terrible for the sport imo.

Really? Don’t tell that to the golfers - the guys on both tours are doing better because of it.

I’m old enough to remember the AFL “ruining” football and the ABA doing the same to basketball. Both led to some temporary chaos and dilution but in the long tun were good  for the sport and great for the players. I expect the same to happen in golf.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MU82 on May 21, 2023, 09:36:27 PM
Really? Don’t tell that to the golfers - the guys on both tours are doing better because of it.

I’m old enough to remember the AFL “ruining” football and the ABA doing the same to basketball. Both led to some temporary chaos and dilution but in the long tun were good  for the sport and great for the players. I expect the same to happen in golf.

Unless LIV is closer to the USFL or WFL than it is to the AFL.

Congrats to Koepka; he’s a worthy PGA champion and a 5-time majors winner. But his next event will be on a shyte network, watched by tens of people until the network decides to switch to Munsters reruns or something.

It’s too early to call LIV a failure, that’s for sure. But it’s also too early to call LIV a success. The beautiful thing is we’ll get to see.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 21, 2023, 10:27:20 PM
Koepka is such a complete tool that I had to turn it off because I couldn’t stomach the guy winning.

Dude was a prick long before LIV. Literally anybody but that dude and Mickelson.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 06, 2023, 12:42:20 PM
Really? Don’t tell that to the golfers - the guys on both tours are doing better because of it.

I’m old enough to remember the AFL “ruining” football and the ABA doing the same to basketball. Both led to some temporary chaos and dilution but in the long tun were good  for the sport and great for the players. I expect the same to happen in golf.

Two weeks later - Bingo!

And to think some here were laughing at LIV and comparing it to the USFL and the WFL. Now we know why Rory’s been so quiet the last couple of months.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 06, 2023, 12:54:34 PM
Two weeks later - Bingo!

And to think some here were laughing at LIV and comparing it to the USFL and the WFL. Now we know why Rory’s been so quiet the last couple of months.


Yeah, I should learn the lesson that money almost always wins.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MU82 on June 06, 2023, 12:54:44 PM
Two weeks later - Bingo!

And to think some here were laughing at LIV and comparing it to the USFL and the WFL. Now we know why Rory’s been so quiet the last couple of months.

You were right, so congrats, and I was wrong. I wish it were the other way around, for all the reasons Goose articulated very well in the other thread.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Goose on June 06, 2023, 01:48:35 PM
I agree with Lenny that the players on both tours are in far better shape than they were prior to the start of Liv. I can only speak for me, but I feel the game of golf is not better off for it. Again, I love the history of the game and there is little about the new world of golf I find to be very appealing to me.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 06, 2023, 02:09:18 PM
I agree with Lenny that the players on both tours are in far better shape than they were prior to the start of Liv. I can only speak for me, but I feel the game of golf is not better off for it. Again, I love the history of the game and there is little about the new world of golf I find to be very appealing to me.

The game of golf is not in a better place than it was 18 months ago. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 06, 2023, 04:26:25 PM
The game of golf is not in a better place than it was 18 months ago.

The game of golf is what it has always been and always will be. The people who play it professionally will be in a stronger position vis a vis the organization(s) that run the tour because of this. If you hated NIL for college athletes, free agency/collective bargaining for baseball, football, hockey and the competitive leagues who helped raise player salaries/conditions then you’re in mourning right now. If not you should have no complaints.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MuggsyB on June 06, 2023, 04:33:01 PM
The game of golf is what it has always been and always will be. The people who play it professionally will be in a stronger position vis a vis the organization(s) that run the tour because of this. If you hated NIL for college athletes, free agency/collective bargaining for baseball, football, hockey and the competitive leagues who helped raise player salaries/conditions then you’re in mourning right now. If not you should have no complaints.

While I hate NIL I honestly don't think the two things are comparable Lenny. 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 06, 2023, 04:35:56 PM
While I hate NIL I honestly don't think the two things are comparable Lenny.

Not remotely close to the same thing.  Professional golf is now a mouthpiece for the Saudi’s, which is what they wanted.  Comparing it to a labor situation is laughable.

The players got used.  Some like Mickelson don’t have any scruples or morals, so they’re too blind to the reality, but that’s what happened.  Maybe he’ll have some young men thrown his way from MBS to watch bang his wife
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 06, 2023, 04:37:42 PM
The game of golf is what it has always been and always will be. The people who play it professionally will be in a stronger position vis a vis the organization(s) that run the tour because of this. If you hated NIL for college athletes, free agency/collective bargaining for baseball, football, hockey and the competitive leagues who helped raise player salaries/conditions then you’re in mourning right now. If not you should have no complaints.

If college athletes had signed on with Saudi-backed financing, sure it’s comparable.  If MLB players in the 70’s formed a rival league with the USSR, sure it’s comparable.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 06, 2023, 05:01:10 PM
If college athletes had signed on with Saudi-backed financing, sure it’s comparable.  If MLB players in the 70’s formed a rival league with the USSR, sure it’s comparable.

Money is fungible. And a lot of it comes from dubious places. Are you mourning the NBA being in bed with China? Boycotting Apple and all other things produced there? If not, spare me.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 06, 2023, 05:03:55 PM
Money is fungible. And a lot of it comes from dubious places. Are you mourning the NBA being in bed with China? Boycotting Apple and all other things produced there? If not, spare me.

China isn’t paying me to follow the NBA or use Apple.  The Saudi’s paid players to get at the sports table.

I only boycott inclusive products
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 06, 2023, 05:12:04 PM
The game of golf is what it has always been and always will be. The people who play it professionally will be in a stronger position vis a vis the organization(s) that run the tour because of this. If you hated NIL for college athletes, free agency/collective bargaining for baseball, football, hockey and the competitive leagues who helped raise player salaries/conditions then you’re in mourning right now. If not you should have no complaints.


Using 9/11 victims, until they could profit as well, is a pretty big complaint.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: rocket surgeon on June 06, 2023, 06:49:30 PM
China isn’t paying me to follow the NBA or use Apple.  The Saudi’s paid players to get at the sports table.

I only boycott inclusive products

 china paying you??  and i thought they were out of line for giving all that money to president magoo and his family.  maybe you should tell them your friends of the big guy and his ever so brilliant artist offspring   

  you are funding china by watching the NBA, buying apparel, shoes, etc.  and all of the human rights abuses they are committing to this day

 
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 06, 2023, 06:53:41 PM
china paying you??  and i thought they were out of line for giving all that money to president magoo and his family.  maybe you should tell them your friends of the big guy and his ever so brilliant artist offspring   

  you are funding china by watching the NBA, buying apparel, shoes, etc.  and all of the human rights abuses they are committing to this day

9 out of 10
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 06, 2023, 07:56:00 PM
China isn’t paying me to follow the NBA or use Apple.  The Saudi’s paid players to get at the sports table.

I

??

China isn’t “paying you”? Of course not . Neither are the Saudis. You’re paying them and they pay the NBA. Just like people pay the Saudis and they pay the golfers. Or we pay the Saudis for oil now that we’ve decided energy independence isn’t important.


Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 06, 2023, 08:00:55 PM
china paying you??  and i thought they were out of line for giving all that money to president magoo and his family.  maybe you should tell them your friends of the big guy and his ever so brilliant artist offspring   

  you are funding china by watching the NBA, buying apparel, shoes, etc.  and all of the human rights abuses they are committing to this day

As are you.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 06, 2023, 08:05:05 PM
??

China isn’t “paying you”? Of course not . Neither are the Saudis. You’re paying them and they pay the NBA. Just like people pay the Saudis and they pay the golfers. Or we pay the Saudis for oil now that we’ve decided energy independence isn’t important.

No, the Saudi’s are paying individual golfers and using them to get a seat at the table.  They now have it.  LIV is dead.  They used those golfers greed to their benefit.  They have no interest in “growing the game”.  It’s a toy for them
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Pakuni on June 06, 2023, 08:21:55 PM

China isn’t “paying you”?

"paying you?"

Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 06, 2023, 09:10:55 PM
"paying you?"

Good catch! LOL
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: jesmu84 on June 06, 2023, 09:21:35 PM
??

China isn’t “paying you”? Of course not . Neither are the Saudis. You’re paying them and they pay the NBA. Just like people pay the Saudis and they pay the golfers. Or we pay the Saudis for oil now that we’ve decided energy independence isn’t important.

If oil/gas/etc corporations in the US decide it's against their financial interest/shareholder value to pump more oil/gas/etc, what should be done?

Is energy independence a national security risk?
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 06, 2023, 09:22:23 PM
No, the Saudi’s are paying individual golfers and using them to get a seat at the table.  They now have it.  LIV is dead.  They used those golfers greed to their benefit.  They have no interest in “growing the game”.  It’s a toy for them

A seat at the table? As the leader of OPEC they’ve had a seat at the table for quite awhile. A $$$ infusion by definition grows the game. And sports have been a toy for the very rich since before you were born. Your naïveté amazes me.

Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MUBurrow on June 06, 2023, 09:27:05 PM
Money is fungible. And a lot of it comes from dubious places. Are you mourning the NBA being in bed with China? Boycotting Apple and all other things produced there? If not, spare me.

I thought being American I was allowed to have a particular grudge against the guys who did 9/11 without having to answer for China and the Uyghurs.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Pakuni on June 06, 2023, 09:32:57 PM
A seat at the table? As the leader of OPEC they’ve had a seat at the table for quite awhile. A $$$ infusion by definition grows the game. And sports have been a toy for the very rich since before you were born. Your naïveté amazes me.

MBS is exactly like Jerry Reinsdorf and Dan Rooney, or something.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 06, 2023, 10:17:57 PM
I thought being American I was allowed to have a particular grudge against the guys who did 9/11 without having to answer for China and the Uyghurs.

Burrow

Of course you’re allowed to hold whatever grudges you choose. But to my knowledge it’s never been proven that the Saudi government orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. OTOH, the China/Uyghur situation is certainly government policy.

Look, I’m no fan of the Saudi government - but the fact is we (as a country and as individuals) do plenty of business with bad actors. Your, mine or anyone else’s outrage isn’t going to change it.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on June 07, 2023, 04:44:32 AM
I don’t necessarily disagree with you Lenny, but Monahan shouldn’t have used that excuse only to take money from them a year later. That’s what bothers me the most. Using people like the 9/11 families to your benefit, only to drop them when the $$$ got too big.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 07, 2023, 07:13:29 AM
I don’t necessarily disagree with you Lenny, but Monahan shouldn’t have used that excuse only to take money from them a year later. That’s what bothers me the most. Using people like the 9/11 families to your benefit, only to drop them when the $$$ got too big.

No doubt, Monahan speaks out of both sides of his mouth. If I’m a player or fan I’d stop worrying about Mickelson, Norman, etc., and direct any vitriol towards him.

I wish that all sports had more insightful leadership. But they don’t. And in spite of it, the games of golf, baseball, football and basketball at all levels is fine. If people want to boycott, that’s fine too.
Title: Re: 2023 PGA Championship Thread
Post by: MUBurrow on June 07, 2023, 08:37:12 AM
Burrow

Of course you’re allowed to hold whatever grudges you choose. But to my knowledge it’s never been proven that the Saudi government orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. OTOH, the China/Uyghur situation is certainly government policy.

Look, I’m no fan of the Saudi government - but the fact is we (as a country and as individuals) do plenty of business with bad actors. Your, mine or anyone else’s outrage isn’t going to change it.

Thanks for the reasoned response, Lenny.  I do agree with your post and recognize that the bolded is especially relevant.  But as folks have mentioned in the golf thread, its also relevant that the Saudi government is now the exclusive investor in golf, whereas the NBA has "just" had a mealy mouthed response to China because of its huge market.  So I don't think its necessarily hypocritical to have a much harsher personal response to golf than to the NBA.  They are just different situations.  Ultimately, as you allude to, the House of Saud is willing to burn so much money that they could buy a sport, play to completely empty stadiums, and not give a hoot.