MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: DegenerateDish on April 12, 2023, 11:58:20 AM
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Not sure yet if he’s hired an agent.
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Will be interested to hear if hired an agent or not. Time for Shaka to hit the portal.
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Wonder if he stays in or just testing the waters. Oldest impact player on the team so might think his stock won’t get higher and wants to start pro career even if he doesn’t get picked (which as of now looks unlikely based on mocks/big boards). I’d say he should just come back and get NIL but since he’s Canadian i think NIL is set up weird for international players.
If he’s gone, Joplin starts
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My gut instinct is he’s committed to staying in the draft based on what I’m seeing.
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He gowne. Cellar time here we come
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My gut instinct is he’s committed to staying in the draft based on what I’m seeing.
Where are you seeing what you’re seeing?
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Ben Steele says he's hearing OMax will retain eligibility, but nothing official yet.
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He'd be foolish not to declare and give it a try.
More likely he stays and has another year with us.
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Ben Steele thinks O-Max will retain college eligibility, but he says that's not official yet.
Even if O-Max does retain eligibility, there's no guarantee he returns. If O-Max does leave, Shaka needs to add a player for depth.
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Curious to see his official post, but he should at least get all the feedback.
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9th place here we come
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Fully expected this from the start. Honestly, it probably would've been a mistake for him not to declare. It will depend on the feedback he gets, but Marquette is in a good position to get him back still.
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He'd be foolish not to declare and give it a try.
More likely he stays and has another year with us.
Agree, and hope you are right about "more likely...". It's his chance to get some valuable feedback.
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Am I alone in thinking that there should be no loss of eligibility until you actually get a check from a professional team? Not sure why hiring an agent is the gateway in this day and age of NIL
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Am I alone in thinking that there should be no loss of eligibility until you actually get a check from a professional team?
Nope. They sort of had this rule for a year or two in the 90’s.
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His language doesn’t reference “retaining eligibility”… not that means he can’t or won’t come back.
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Omax is committed to staying in the draft.
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For those wondering about the source, himself
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cq8bN50ge4T/?hl=en
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He gowne. Billy Packer was right
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Omax is committed to staying in the draft.
I'd be curious to know the source that leads you to believe that. This is a new announcement but not new information. Him being committed to leaving, however, would be new information.
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Declaring for the draft is a great decision. Staying in and expecting to get drafted and actually play in the NBA next season are quite another.
Selfishly, hoping to see OMax return. But he's also a guy that I feel like could be replaced in the portal. Was great at times, but very inconsistent.
Regardless, wish OMax nothing but the best. Great kid and very easy to root for!
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1) Declare
2) Get feedback
3) Then determine if he stays.
Personally I would be shocked if he is drafted, but we will see. If so, good luck to him. Big question is if Shaka replaces him in portal, Shaka has way more knowledge than any one here. If he takes two players from portal then he might be gone. Portal players starting to commit now, believe pullout from draft is in June??? Does Shaka wait, many players long gone by then. Let it begin......
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Best of luck to him either way. At least we didn’t get hit with the “…and will also be entering his name into the transfer portal.”
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I think the return possibility is wishful thinking. Shaka has known this, subtlety alluded to it and needs to find a replacement.
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His Twitter statement sounds a lot like a final thank you and good bye.
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I'd be curious to know the source that leads you to believe that. This is a new announcement but not new information. Him being committed to leaving, however, would be new information.
No mention of maintaining eligibility in his official statement.
Honestly...he deserves it. Got so overshadowed here and he was arguably the most important piece.
Next man up! Good luck OMax!
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For those wondering about the source, himself
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cq8bN50ge4T/?hl=en
Certainly reads like a goodbye as opposed to leaving the door open. I’m excited to see what move Shaka makes now.
Best of luck Omax!
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No mention of maintaining eligibility in his official statement.
Honestly...he deserves it. Got so overshadowed here and he was arguably the most important piece.
Next man up! Good luck OMax!
So who in the portal is the best option to backfill OMax?
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It's both good and bad for MU. His style of play and size/versatility makes him the best NBA prospect. My comp earlier in the year was a young Jerami Grant which I still believe is a good comparison and obviously a best case scenario if he gets drafted and pans out in the league.
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Ughhh.
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His Twitter statement sounds a lot like a final thank you and good bye.
No mention of maintaining eligibility in his official statement.
Honestly...he deserves it. Got so overshadowed here and he was arguably the most important piece.
Next man up! Good luck OMax!
Without going into the weeds, I can confidently say O-Max is definitely retaining his eligibility.
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This is Hausershima 2.0
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My comp earlier in the year was a young Jerami Grant which I still believe is a good comparison
Grant lived at the line in college. Omax gets there, but 3s are a big part of his game, but not Grant’s in college. Grant put up solidvtevound %’s. Not OMax.
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So who in the portal is the best option to backfill OMax?
Matthew Cleveland, Florida St. Top 15 recruit and great numbers at FSU. Probably a major blue blood.
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Just once I would like one of our fringe (being generous here) NBA guys to stick around one more season. I know that's a lot to ask, but just one time would be nice.
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Without going into the weeds, I can confidently say O-Max is definitely retaining his eligibility.
Alright Brew. But do we have an auxiliary plan?
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If Omax leaves, I still say bank the scholarship unless there is a one year plug. Joplin and Ross will make big jumps next year anyway. Think we’ll have a great recruiting class in 2024.
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Time to hit the portal. But regardless of what happens there, its a huge opportunity for Joplin and Gold.
I think we'll be fine.
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Shaka has know this all along.
He's planning accordingly.
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…this could be a great opportunity for Ben Gold. If BG steps up, then Shaka backfills for Gold, in a sense. To me, Gold has more high-end than Omax. Omax returns? Awesome. If not, not necessarily a gut punch.
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Time to hit the portal. But regardless of what happens there, its a huge opportunity for Joplin and Gold.
I think we'll be fine.
100%
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Tyrese… cancel those Florida & wake visits bruh
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I'd be shocked if OMax got drafted this season. I think he will go undrafted and probably get a G League deal or a 2 way deal.
I do think he will get to the NBA. I just don't think it will be next season.
Selfishly I would have loved for him to continue to develop under Shaka at MU. But he can develop in a G League setting too, while getting paid. I don't necessarily see this as a mistake on his part.
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So who in the portal is the best option to backfill OMax?
Joplin and Amadou, the same way they allowed OMax and Joplin to develop. Really like Al's game. He's got a lot of OMax in his game, just needs to develop a pro body like OMax.
Next man up.
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Time to sign Bronny.
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Joplin and Amadou, the same way they allowed OMax and Joplin to develop. Really like Al's game. He's got a lot of OMax in his game, just needs to develop a pro body like OMax.
Next man up.
They're not in the portal.
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They're not in the portal.
I know, but that's who will be replacing him.
Joplin/Amadou maybe a little Gold at the 4. If Oso also leaves then I'd imagine they try and find a portal Center, but Joplin is the guy at the 4.
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It’s happening! Ben Gold’s All American year is lining up nicely.
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If I wasn't a good enough source, Ben Steele just confirmed O-Max is maintaining his NCAA eligibility.
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If I wasn't a good enough source, Ben Steele just confirmed O-Max is maintaining his NCAA eligibility.
I'd say he's gonna be gone.
Already generating a huge buzz with comparisons to OG Anunoby
(https://twitter.com/Barlowe500/status/1646195739465334787?t=_tHocdNrias0dv3tKIxXQA&s=19)
as well as many big time draft experts loving on his game.
Fire up the JopWagon!
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If I wasn't a good enough source, Ben Steele just confirmed O-Max is maintaining his NCAA eligibility.
Not including the option to return to school combined with the language he used to discuss the team all but shuts the door on the possibility of him coming back in my opinion. Sounds like Marquette officials coping.
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If I wasn't a good enough source, Ben Steele just confirmed O-Max is maintaining his NCAA eligibility.
Is there any downside to maintaining eligiblity? Seems like it would give him a good escape hatch in the event he doesn’t peform well in the process or picks up a medium-term injury.
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Apparently our players aren't very smart. Declare for the NBA when the NBA has a 4th Round Grade on you at this point in a 2 Round Draft. This same "brilliance" worked out great for Justin Lewis last year as well. ::)
Hopefully Emarion Ellis removes himself from the portal now. If he truly has grown 2 inches, then he could fit this 3/4 roll and get some of Omax's minutes assuming his knee will heal completely.
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I'd be shocked if OMax got drafted this season. I think he will go undrafted and probably get a G League deal or a 2 way deal.
I do think he will get to the NBA. I just don't think it will be next season.
Selfishly I would have loved for him to continue to develop under Shaka at MU. But he can develop in a G League setting too, while getting paid. I don't necessarily see this as a mistake on his part.
Like I stated earlier I agree, but wish him best of luck. NBA is now a three pointer league.
Comparison:
Grady Dick 6ft 8in
Omax 6ft 8in
Omax probably better on defense, but what NBA wants is a drop dead three point shooter with that height. Grady Dick is just that.
Grady Dick is Lottery pick
Omax fringe pick, probably G-League or overseas.
Hope he is just getting feedback and returns. Will know in upcoming weeks if Shaka goes for two in portal.
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IMO, if they want to be a top five team next year Omax needs to be replaced by a portal player. There is no one the current roster that replace Omax and defense and they need size. Not replacing him with high end portal guy could very possibly be a missed opportunity for next season.
As for Omax, I stated several times over last offseason that I was going to enjoy Omax's last season at MU and I did. He was a very nice part of the team and is a fantastic athlete for his size. I think he will be playing in the NBA next season and wish him well.
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Is there any downside to maintaining eligiblity? Seems like it would give him a good escape hatch in the event he doesn’t peform well in the process or picks up a medium-term injury.
I think they can only work with certain agents and there are some restrictions around various things like travel costs. I do remember someone answered it at some point, but that was what I could remember.
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Apparently our players aren't very smart. Declare for the NBA when the NBA has a 4th Round Grade on you at this point in a 2 Round Draft. This same "brilliance" worked out great for Justin Lewis last year as well. ::)
Hopefully Emarion Ellis removes himself from the portal now. If he truly has grown 2 inches, then he could fit this 3/4 roll and get some of Omax's minutes assuming his knee will heal completely.
You are very low on Omax.
And way too high on emarion.
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Good luck, OMax! Wish you well in your professional pursuits.
Trust the staff. Shaka has proven he can find valuable pieces within the portal. Joplin becoming a starter is very exciting. Still need depth pieces though.
I am curious if any of our current portal players (Ellis, Wrightsil, Itejere) decide to return knowing there are available minutes to be had. That might be our best bet to filling the void left by OMax IMO.
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warrior11
I would move on from the three that left and replace Omax with a proven portal guy. They are highly ranked and filling one piece via the portal should be relatively easy. I have no problem if Shaka finds a sleeper as long as they have a lot of playing time experience.
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That might be our best bet to filling the void left by OMax IMO.
That’s likely not our best bet.
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Just once I would like one of our fringe (being generous here) NBA guys to stick around one more season. I know that's a lot to ask, but just one time would be nice.
Agree. And agree too it’s generous to call him on the fringe. Below average rebounder, zero rim protection, very inconsistent shooter, falls and flops all over, overrated defender whose hips are stiff.
Other than that, bet the NBA is salivating. Go to the portal and get someone better.
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He'd be foolish not to declare and give it a try.
More likely he stays and has another year with us.
Why do you think he is more likely to stay?
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Happy to see OMax test the waters, hopefully he makes some noise in the run up to the draft. Getting medium usage players to the league will make it easier for Shaka to continue getting players bought into his style of offense.
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Apparently our players aren't very smart. Declare for the NBA when the NBA has a 4th Round Grade on you at this point in a 2 Round Draft. This same "brilliance" worked out great for Justin Lewis last year as well. ::)
And Justin had way more upside than Prosper when he left.
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And Justin had way more upside than Prosper when he left.
I disagree.
I think OMax has SIGNIFICANTLY more upside.
One man's opinion, but he is more athletic, he's taller, he's way faster, he's a much better defender and the shooting is similar.
OMax has a real chance at getting drafted, not sure Justin ever did last year.
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Not including the option to return to school combined with the language he used to discuss the team all but shuts the door on the possibility of him coming back in my opinion. Sounds like Marquette officials coping.
Maintaining eligibility can be factually true in this case without being a coping mechanism.
I'm sure the coaches know better than we do whether or not O-Max is likely to return. They may even know O-Max is likely gone, but that doesn't change the fact of whether or not O-Max retains his eligibility for the time being.
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Agree. And agree too it’s generous to call him on the fringe. Below average rebounder, zero rim protection, very inconsistent shooter, falls and flops all over, overrated defender whose hips are stiff.
Other than that, bet the NBA is salivating. Go to the portal and get someone better.
So please explain why you think Shaka had him as a starter.
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IMO, if they want to be a top five team next year Omax needs to be replaced by a portal player. There is no one the current roster that replace Omax and defense and they need size. Not replacing him with high end portal guy could very possibly be a missed opportunity for next season.
As for Omax, I stated several times over last offseason that I was going to enjoy Omax's last season at MU and I did. He was a very nice part of the team and is a fantastic athlete for his size. I think he will be playing in the NBA next season and wish him well.
I don't think you can find a player in the portal that replaces what OMax brought. I think we will see next year just how valuable he was (assuming he's gone). He did so much for this team and cleaned up a lot of their mistakes defensively.
You just can't replicate it. Would be a slightly tweaked system next year should OMax indeed be done.
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Best of luck to OMax. Hopefully it works out better than it did for Justin.
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Best of luck to OMax. Hopefully it works out better than it did for Justin.
Marquette is actually trading OMax to the NBA for Justin I heard.
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Not including the option to return to school combined with the language he used to discuss the team all but shuts the door on the possibility of him coming back in my opinion. Sounds like Marquette officials coping.
1. He's maintaining his NCAA eligibility.
2. This was not a surprise to Shaka and Staff. They've kept a very open and honest dialog with him.
3. The fact that Shaka and Staff were NOT surprised AND have been quiet in the portal is telling. Either...
A) They feel confident he'll be back
B) They found his replacement and finalizing details
Shaka knows that next year's team is special and provides an amazing chance to bake a deep run. He's not going to just sit ideally by. I'm willing to bet he has a plan, and a back-up plan...and a back-up plan for the back-up plan.
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Apparently our players aren't very smart. Declare for the NBA when the NBA has a 4th Round Grade on you at this point in a 2 Round Draft. This same "brilliance" worked out great for Justin Lewis last year as well. ::)
Hopefully Emarion Ellis removes himself from the portal now. If he truly has grown 2 inches, then he could fit this 3/4 roll and get some of Omax's minutes assuming his knee will heal completely.
I have one question: Are you really this stupid, or is it an act?
Please follow another team.
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warrior11
I would move on from the three that left and replace Omax with a proven portal guy. They are highly ranked and filling one piece via the portal should be relatively easy. I have no problem if Shaka finds a sleeper as long as they have a lot of playing time experience.
Since Shaka does not want an NIL bidding war to get a player, the sleeper route appears to be the only option.
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I think they can only work with certain agents and there are some restrictions around various things like travel costs. I do remember someone answered it at some point, but that was what I could remember.
They must be NCAA certified agents.
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1. He's maintaining his NCAA eligibility.
2. This was not a surprise to Shaka and Staff. They've kept a very open and honest dialog with him.
3. The fact that Shaka and Staff were NOT surprised AND have been quiet in the portal is telling. Either...
A) They feel confident he'll be back
B) They found his replacement and finalizing details
Shaka knows that next year's team is special and provides an amazing chance to bake a deep run. He's not going to just sit ideally by. I'm willing to bet he has a plan, and a back-up plan...and a back-up plan for the back-up plan.
How does one measure "have been quiet in the portal" - is there a Kenpom metric for a coach's portal activity? Or are you measuring this off your social media analytics?
Pretty sure Shaka will keep his activity low profile until any actual commitments...
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So please explain why you think Shaka had him as a starter.
His only alternative was a raw freshman, Gold. Their whole bench that played were freshman except Jop. Joplin’s game was not a suitable alternative either
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If he is not back, it is a big loss. I'm not particularly worried from an offensive perspective but to me there would now be a glaring hole in regards to someone his size and length that could be used to shut down wing players. Our two wins and what he did to Hawkins in them is a prime example. If Shaka can get a long, athletic wing that can defend and rebound that would be big.
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Those of you who do not realize that Shaka already has been portaling - knowing that this was possible if not likely- are obtuse.
https://tenor.com/bLs7G.gif (https://tenor.com/bLs7G.gif)
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Legs
I fully agree. Only sticky point, how long he can wait sign one before they go elsewhere.
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Just once I would like one of our fringe (being generous here) NBA guys to stick around one more season. I know that's a lot to ask, but just one time would be nice.
Well, Kolek and Oso haven't declared yet.
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He can't afford to wait. Bird in the hand and all.
He has room for a portalee even if OMax returns . Shaka will navigate culture and PT issues.
Players who want to win it all will understand a move within the context of the culture.
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Excellent news for OMax and MU. I believe it helps the program when players are able to make it to the NBA. Omax has what it takes to earn a spot on an NBA roster 6-8 guys with length like a Condor who are strong defenders do not grow on trees .
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Excellent news for OMax and MU. I believe it helps the program when players are able to make it to the NBA. Omax has what it takes to earn a spot on an NBA roster 6-8 guys with length like a Condor who are strong defenders do not grow on trees .
Condor-length is the new aircraft carrier
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And Justin had way more upside than Prosper when he left.
Not even close. Lewis is way less athletic and a mediocre defender.
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1. He's maintaining his NCAA eligibility.
2. This was not a surprise to Shaka and Staff. They've kept a very open and honest dialog with him.
3. The fact that Shaka and Staff were NOT surprised AND have been quiet in the portal is telling. Either...
A) They feel confident he'll be back
B) They found his replacement and finalizing details
Shaka knows that next year's team is special and provides an amazing chance to bake a deep run. He's not going to just sit ideally by. I'm willing to bet he has a plan, and a back-up plan...and a back-up plan for the back-up plan.
Must be nice to be this glass half full all the time. Couldn't be me.
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Am I alone in thinking that there should be no loss of eligibility until you actually get a check from a professional team? Not sure why hiring an agent is the gateway in this day and age of NIL
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That would make the draft process pretty chaotic. I imagine guys would decide to go back to school if they didn't like the spot where they got drafted, or didn't want to play for the particular team that drafted them.
I think that if they go undrafted, they should be able to return to school.
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Am I alone in thinking that there should be no loss of eligibility until you actually get a check from a professional team? Not sure why hiring an agent is the gateway in this day and age of NIL
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That would make the draft process pretty chaotic. I imagine guys would decide to go back to school if they didn't like the spot where they got drafted, or didn't want to play for the particular team that drafted them.
I think that if they go undrafted, they should be able to return to school.
I guess that's fair, although I have a hard time imagining someone going back to school just because they didn't like where they were drafted, I guess it could happen. I would agree with your exception for undrafted players.
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And Justin had way more upside than Prosper when he left.
Yea, that's not true.
Omax can defend anyone. Lewis can't defend guards. Omax doesn't need to adjust his offensive role and he can be efficient. Lewis needs to adjust his offensive role to be successful in the NBA.
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Not even close. Lewis is way less athletic and a mediocre defender.
Justin's athleticism is ridiculously underappreciated here.
At last year's NBA Combine, he ranked 4th overall in the standing vertical and 6th in the shuttle run.
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Justin's athleticism is ridiculously underappreciated here.
At last year's NBA Combine, he ranked 4th overall in the standing vertical and 6th in the shuttle run.
And didn't he actually get signed by the Bulls only to have an unfortunate injury. He was in a pretty good position until then was he not?
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Justin's athleticism is ridiculously underappreciated here.
At last year's NBA Combine, he ranked 4th overall in the standing vertical and 6th in the shuttle run.
1. What are you doing on this board?
2. I agree. The eye test (or at least my eye test) thought Justin was a bit slow, but his measurables were elite at the Combine.
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And didn't he actually get signed by the Bulls only to have an unfortunate injury. He was in a pretty good position until then was he not?
Also, he has a current contract. Signed a new one after he healed.
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Bummer - I agree not replacements but I think Jop, Ross and Ben make huge leaps next year - we have 7 very good players. Assuming Sean comes back strong from injury that's 8. Adding some insurance with a 9th rotation player would be good but not necessary.
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Justin's athleticism is ridiculously underappreciated here.
At last year's NBA Combine, he ranked 4th overall in the standing vertical and 6th in the shuttle run.
He should show it more playing basketball then - especially on the defensive side.
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He should be forced to pay back his scholarship
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Some of you are acting like he’s the only 6’8 athletic guy in the draft. I like the guy, wish him well, but zero chance he gets drafted or signs as a free agent and plays in the NBA next year.
I will be pumped if/when he returns to MU but NBA? No chance
Also, I think it’s a very smart move to enter and get feedback. Hear what you need to hear (better handles, better shot, and much better balance/control). Come back and improve those things while winning a natty and then maybe the NBA might be a possibility
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Good luck, OMax! Wish you well in your professional pursuits.
Trust the staff. Shaka has proven he can find valuable pieces within the portal. Joplin becoming a starter is very exciting. Still need depth pieces though.
I am curious if any of our current portal players (Ellis, Wrightsil, Itejere) decide to return knowing there are available minutes to be had. That might be our best bet to filling the void left by OMax IMO.
My guess is that the other players were aware of OMax's plans
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Justin's athleticism is ridiculously underappreciated here.
At last year's NBA Combine, he ranked 4th overall in the standing vertical and 6th in the shuttle run.
Agreed. Justin had plenty of explosive athleticism in terms of jumping ability. His weakness was his lateral quickness.
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Some of you are acting like he’s the only 6’8 athletic guy in the draft. I like the guy, wish him well, but zero chance he gets drafted or signs as a free agent and plays in the NBA next year.
I will be pumped if/when he returns to MU but NBA? No chance
Also, I think it’s a very smart move to enter and get feedback. Hear what you need to hear (better handles, better shot, and much better balance/control). Come back and improve those things while winning a natty and then maybe the NBA might be a possibility
Certainly not zero chance.
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IF OMax stays in the draft, it does open the door for one or more of our current portal guys (Ellis, Wrightsil, Keeyan) to come back. Ellis is probably the most likely as he could help fill the wing role, but Wrightsil could provide front court depth that is desperately needed now. Keeyan seems unlikely to return to sit behind Oso and Gold.
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O-Max was a great contributing member of the team.
Appreciate the winning tip in at the buzzer.
If trying to get drafted, don't do it lukewarm.
Has anyone on Marquette that declared every returned to the team?
If not, I wouldn't expect a change of the trend.
If they declare, they don't want to play college BB.
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Guys, omax was always going to declare. He's maintaining his eligibility. Obviously his preference is to get drafted (anyone's would be). If he gets feedback that he's not getting drafted, he'll come back. If he's getting feedback that it's possible he will, he'll stay in the Draft. There's no secret message about whether he's already decided or not
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IF OMax stays in the draft, it does open the door for one or more of our current portal guys (Ellis, Wrightsil, Keeyan) to come back. Ellis is probably the most likely as he could help fill the wing role, but Wrightsil could provide front court depth that is desperately needed now. Keeyan seems unlikely to return to sit behind Oso and Gold.
No offense to any of them, but despite working with the program for some time I feel like Shaka could find a better Omax replacement.
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I wish OMax all the best in his future. I would also suggest OMax not get to excited for what comes next. Realistically 1st or 2nd round is very unlikely.
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I really liked OMax's quirky game. Hate to see him leave. Did he have enough credits to graduate?
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Guys, omax was always going to declare. He's maintaining his eligibility. Obviously his preference is to get drafted (anyone's would be). If he gets feedback that he's not getting drafted, he'll come back. If he's getting feedback that it's possible he will, he'll stay in the Draft. There's no secret message about whether he's already decided or not
This makes sense, but I'd be interested to know how you can state this with such certainty. O-Max's statement seemed like a final farewell, with absolutely no mention of "testing the waters" or getting "evaluated" or whatnot.
We've had several players do this but not return, including Lewis just last season -- unless some NBA people lied right to his face. Vander, too, of course; I seriously doubt a single NBA exec or scout told him he'd be drafted.
TAMU, I'm not doubting that what you say (and brew and others say) could be true. I have absolutely no idea. It's just that the evidence we all see would seem to lean the other way.
As for the situation:
++ Offensively, O-Max was an up-and-down performer who had few great offensive moments in big games last season, but defensively he usually was a stud and that will not be easy to replace. He was a surprisingly poor rebounder, though, and I had to cover my eyes every time he started spinning and flailing in the lane.
++ I respectfully disagree with GE03, who keeps saying O-Max was our most important player. Kolek and Oso were miles ahead of him because we had absolutely nobody who could come close to doing what either did offensively; Kolek, in particular, was elite. Hopefully, they aren't going anywhere.
++ The combination of Joplin, Gold and Ross probably can replace O-Max's offense (and likely even improve on it), but the first two aren't nearly athletic enough and Ross isn't bulky enough to replace what O-Max did on defense. So ...
++ I agree with Goose and some others that if we're really gonna contend for the Final Four next season -- and if Shaka already has knowledge that O-Max is likely gone -- Shaka needs to bring in a 3/4 from the portal. And not just a guy to fill the spot numerically but a player with the potential to replace the best of O-Max. We have a unique window of opportunity, with an All-American PG, a talented 5 and a shot-making guard. Need another stud to reach our potential.
++ I'd be stunned if Shaka is unaware of O-Max's actual plans. If he adds one of the better remaining forwards in the portal, a guy expecting to play big minutes for a top-10 team, it will tell us that O-Max is highly unlikely to return. If Shaka doesn't add anybody who can bring things O-Max did, it could be a sign that O-Max might return. I say could be a sign because Shaka might not be able to match another program's available NIL money (or might choose not to).
++ The potential for this scenario is why I didn't set specific expectations for next season yet. We don't know our team yet; how can anyone have specific expectations? Generally, I still expect us to be very good if the rest of the team returns.
++ As is so often the case with these prospects, O-Max not being "ready" or probably not getting drafted is beside the point. We have this discussion over and over again on Scoop -- a poster mentions that so-and-so might want to test the waters, and the knee-jerk response is, "I doubt it; he's not ready." Being ready no matta. There are all kinds of reasons players leave school even if there's a good chance they won't get drafted or even have a cup of NBA coffee. You or I might say the reasons were "bad," but they're not our reasons to have.
++ If O-Max goes, I wish him great fortune. Say what you will about his game, love it or hate it or both at the same time, the guy always gave supreme effort on the court. He was a big reason why last season was so much fun to watch. He played a major role in giving MU fans so many great memories.
We Are Marquette!
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Since Shaka does not want an NIL bidding war to get a player, the sleeper route appears to be the only option.
NIL bidding to recruit a player is not permissible for anyone.
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They are different players, but just like
J. Lewis, he will not get drafted. No way.
I hope he does well, but fear he will just be another in the long list of guys that never see the NBA in any real sense …
Lewis
Vander … etc etc
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O-Max was a great contributing member of the team.
Appreciate the winning tip in at the buzzer.
If trying to get drafted, don't do it lukewarm.
Has anyone on Marquette that declared every returned to the team?
If not, I wouldn't expect a change of the trend.
If they declare, they don't want to play college BB.
Dominic James declared after his sophomore season and returned.
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They are different players, but just like
J. Lewis, he will not get drafted. No way.
I hope he does well, but fear he will just be another in the long list of guys that never see the NBA in any real sense …
Lewis
Vander … etc etc
I'd be very surprised if Justin isn't on the Bulls roster next season.
He's one of only 10 players they have under contract for 2023-24, and they have no draft picks this year.
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Is there any downside to maintaining eligiblity? Seems like it would give him a good escape hatch in the event he doesn’t peform well in the process or picks up a medium-term injury.
Not huge, but there are limitations. No one other than an NCAA cert’d agent can market him to teams… can’t take benefits from anyone other than ncaa c agent. No tryouts / visits over 48 hours that are financed by the team.. can’t miss class for a tryout..
Combine isn’t til mid May. Withdrawal deadline for ncaa elig May 31. Long road ahead
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Has anyone on Marquette that declared every returned to the team?
Dominic James declared (without hiring an agent) and then came back to the team in 2007.
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Not huge, but there are limitations. No one other than an NCAA cert’d agent can market him to teams… can’t take benefits from anyone other than ncaa c agent. No tryouts / visits over 48 hours that are financed by the team.. can’t miss class for a tryout..
Combine isn’t til mid May. Withdrawal deadline for ncaa elig May 31. Long road ahead
Yep, the waiting game begins.
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More time for Gold & Joplin makes me happy.
Not sure if Markus actually declared, but when he said he was coming back the Hausers left.
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Not sure if Markus actually declared, but when he said he was coming back the Hausers left.
No. Markus said on this date 4 years ago there was unfinished business and he as my going to mess w the nba stuff.
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O-Max's statement seemed like a final farewell, with absolutely no mention of "testing the waters" or getting "evaluated" or whatnot.
Happens all the time and players return.
Hell last week Da'Sean Nelson posted a goodbye to DePaul and today he posted he's coming back.
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Guys, omax was always going to declare. He's maintaining his eligibility. Obviously his preference is to get drafted (anyone's would be). If he gets feedback that he's not getting drafted, he'll come back. If he's getting feedback that it's possible he will, he'll stay in the Draft. There's no secret message about whether he's already decided or not
This.
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His Twitter statement sounds a lot like a final thank you and good bye.
It sure does.
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Guys, omax was always going to declare. He's maintaining his eligibility. Obviously his preference is to get drafted (anyone's would be). If he gets feedback that he's not getting drafted, he'll come back. If he's getting feedback that it's possible he will, he'll stay in the Draft. There's no secret message about whether he's already decided or not
I agree that he was always going to declare. I don't necessarily agree that advice from those giving feedback is anywhere close to accurate. Otherwise Justin got some pretty garbage advice. Cost himself a large amount of money going undrafted.
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Happens all the time and players return.
Hell last week Da'Sean Nelson posted a goodbye to DePaul and today he posted he's coming back.
Nelson said he was going to “explore” and “test his options”. OMax’s note was missing that.
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warrior11
I would move on from the three that left and replace Omax with a proven portal guy. They are highly ranked and filling one piece via the portal should be relatively easy. I have no problem if Shaka finds a sleeper as long as they have a lot of playing time experience.
Don't believe the portal is as easy as you allude to. I have faith in Shaka and his work is cut out for him. Hopefully nobody else leaves.
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A second, closer review of OMax’s post reads more neutral to me. He basically says:
“First of all I’d like to thank [everyone]. With that said, I am proud to announce that I will be declaring for the 2023 NBA draft. Playing in the NBA has always been a dream of mine and I’m excited for what comes next.”
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So if he gets feedback that he might get drafted he will stay in the draft?
That’s pretty iffy…….
I can certainly understand if they tell him he will get drafted then he’s gone……but guarantees are funny things……I think I’ve heard of other players that were given promises and went undrafted. Justin might have been one…….he was on many mocks…….some even thought he’d go at end of round 1……didn’t work out that way.
Best of luck to him…..whatever he decides.
Ps what Vander or Justin did has no bearing on OMax…….lots of players declare and then withdraw……
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79warrior
Shaka was hired to get the job done. He has created a top ten style of play, Imo, and time to do some recruiting from the portal. If a kid does not want to play in a system that loves 3’s and dunks, they are missing out. Recruiting is the least of my concern, current players, high school kids or portal guys.
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If he comes or goes MU will be fine, but now I believe he will need to add another forward or big just for depth.
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++ The potential for this scenario is why I didn't set specific expectations for next season yet. We don't know our team yet; how can anyone have specific expectations? Generally, I still expect us to be very good if the rest of the team returns.
Not just Marquette's season this Fall but the "way too early" rankings of all teams and the projected 2024 NCAA brackets. The morning after UCONN won the natty, the ridiculous predictions flooded the sites. No one knows who is transferring in or out, or going pro, but yet they have no problem with their forecasting. Covering their asses with "well, we DID say way too early" is disingenuous.
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Over/under adj def rank next season: 80?
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Over/under adj def rank next season: 80?
Using T-Rank sortable tool, the defense gets less worse than the offense and the team goes from 4 to 10 overall, so I’ll say well under. Thanks for making me look!
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If he comes or goes MU will be fine, but now I believe he will need to add another forward or big just for depth.
I believe this too, but there is no player in the portal I'd rather have on this team than OMax. Not a single one.
Continuity yields positive results (especially in this era) as we saw this season. OMax is the perfect player for this roster.
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Using T-Rank sortable tool, the defense gets less worse than the offense and the team goes from 4 to 10 overall, so I’ll say well under. Thanks for making me look!
Is that the same too that says it was mathematically impossible for us to have the season we did before the year began?
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Is that the same too that says it was mathematically impossible for us to have the season we did before the year began?
Nope
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I believe this too, but there is no player in the portal I'd rather have on this team than OMax. Not a single one.
Continuity yields positive results (especially in this era) as we saw this season. OMax is the perfect player for this roster.
No one wants to lose OMax and while playing with the numbers is fun, realistically, he’s a tough cog to replace on defense. However, I think we should probably make note of how the defense got better as the season went on.
Now, can they replace OMax with the current roster defensively? Doubtful. Can the defense still figure out a way to be better? Based on how this season progressed, the answer is yes.
There are other variables to consider as well. How will other rosters in the Big East look? We don’t know yet. I want OMax back. I also want more minutes for Gold & Ross. Let the staff cook before we actually declare the defense being ruined by his departure
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79warrior
Shaka was hired to get the job done. He has created a top ten style of play, Imo, and time to do some recruiting from the portal. If a kid does not want to play in a system that loves 3’s and dunks, they are missing out. Recruiting is the least of my concern, current players, high school kids or portal guys.
I agree about Shaka. My point is the portal is the wild west. When recruiting high school kids, a coach develops a relationship that can last several years. The portal is a whole different animal.
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I agree about Shaka. My point is the portal is the wild west. When recruiting high school kids, a coach develops a relationship that can last several years. The portal is a whole different animal.
It is, but a good coach doesn’t burn bridges when initially recruiting a kid. Some kids are chasing $$$. Some legit want a different setting
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Happens all the time and players return.
Hell last week Da'Sean Nelson posted a goodbye to DePaul and today he posted he's coming back.
Messages are very different.
Not just Marquette's season this Fall but the "way too early" rankings of all teams and the projected 2024 NCAA brackets. The morning after UCONN won the natty, the ridiculous predictions flooded the sites. No one knows who is transferring in or out, or going pro, but yet they have no problem with their forecasting. Covering their asses with "well, we DID say way too early" is disingenuous.
Well, those are just clickbait ... and they DID say "way too early." We certainly are allowed to do similar on Scoop, always inserting the caveat about "everybody returning," but I for one can't state my actual expectations until I know who's on the team.
Shaka was hired to get the job done. He has created a top ten style of play, Imo, and time to do some recruiting from the portal. If a kid does not want to play in a system that loves 3’s and dunks, they are missing out. Recruiting is the least of my concern, current players, high school kids or portal guys.
Yep, he's got close to a great team. He is paid to get the job done. It will be disappointing if he either doesn't bring someone in or develop an outstanding replacement(s) for O-Max from within.
No one wants to lose OMax and while playing with the numbers is fun, realistically, he’s a tough cog to replace on defense. However, I think we should probably make note of how the defense got better as the season went on.
Now, can they replace OMax with the current roster defensively? Doubtful. Can the defense still figure out a way to be better? Based on how this season progressed, the answer is yes.
There are other variables to consider as well. How will other rosters in the Big East look? We don’t know yet. I want OMax back. I also want more minutes for Gold & Ross. Let the staff cook before we actually declare the defense being ruined by his departure
I like this take a lot, Unk. Both optimistic and realistic.
Let's see what we have after the whole process is over, and then let's see what Shaka and his team do.
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Messages are very different.
Well, those are just clickbait ... and they DID say "way too early." We certainly are allowed to do similar on Scoop, always inserting the caveat about "everybody returning," but I for one can't state my actual expectations until I know who's on the team.
Yep, he's got close to a great team. He is paid to get the job done. It will be disappointing if he either doesn't bring someone in or develop an outstanding replacement(s) for O-Max from within.
I like this take a lot, Unk. Both optimistic and realistic.
Let's see what we have after the whole process is over, and then let's see what Shaka and his team do.
The staff deserves trust.
Goose has been the one hammering another important point since they hired Shaka and that’s the culture he’s building. If OMax goes to the NBA, that’s part of the culture. That culture is also currently developing another OMax
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IMO, if they want to be a top five team next year Omax needs to be replaced by a portal player. There is no one the current roster that replace Omax and defense and they need size. Not replacing him with high end portal guy could very possibly be a missed opportunity for next season.
Goose-
What about Shaka have you seen to believe that he will do this? By “high end portal guy” Im assuming you mean starter/starter minutes. Shaka has said, as you know, that he isnt going to use the portal like others.
He has Jop…..he has Gold…..he has Al. He has Stevie and Tre. Are any of them OMax? No. But Shaka will push and pull to get each one ready and better next year.
I would be absolutely shocked if Shaka went completely away from his plan to do what you want.
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Shaka has know this all along.
He's planning accordingly.
Exactly. Scoopers implying that Shaka finding this out about the same time as the public……..
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If OMax leaves Marquette should find some NIL donors for this guy.
https://twitter.com/CourtsideFilms/status/1645422219898630144?t=sZPj5KFus0X9d0O-eCCgKA&s=19
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Over/under adj def rank next season: 80?
End of the year sub 60.
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If OMax leaves Marquette should find some NIL donors for this guy.
https://twitter.com/CourtsideFilms/status/1645422219898630144?t=sZPj5KFus0X9d0O-eCCgKA&s=19
Yes! That’s our guy! Impressive.
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Yes! That’s our guy! Impressive.
Crazy how a guy that Big and talented is so under the radar. I don't even think he's in the portal but wouldn't be surprised to see him enter. In fact, if he doesn't declare, I'd bet on it.
He'd fit perfectly with this Marquette team...though I think just about every team could say that.
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Frankly, for someone that tall and talented playing at that level, 18 ppg doesn't seem like enough.
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Crazy how a guy that Big and talented is so under the radar. I don't even think he's in the portal but wouldn't be surprised to see him enter. In fact, if he doesn't declare, I'd bet on it.
He'd fit perfectly with this Marquette team...though I think just about every team could say that.
He’s not really under the radar. He’s been mentioned as a potential NBA pick for awhile.
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He’s not really under the radar. He’s been mentioned as a potential NBA pick for awhile.
I haven't seen a player from NDSU on any of the mocks that I've seen, but even if he were to get drafted I can't believe he wasn't advertised more in season.
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I agree that he was always going to declare. I don't necessarily agree that advice from those giving feedback is anywhere close to accurate. Otherwise Justin got some pretty garbage advice. Cost himself a large amount of money going undrafted.
Was my post about Justin? I also didn't say anything about anyone getting a guarentee that they would be drafted
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Was my post about Justin? I also didn't say anything about anyone getting a guarentee that they would be drafted
Not to my knowledge.
I am relating the two though. What I'm saying is if OMax thinks he's good enough then go.
The advice you get in the process clearly isn't always the best. Justin is an example of many who declare thinking they'll get drafted and don't, costing themselves a lot of money.
I also understand that some people don't really care about the big money and just want to be professional basketball players earning some money.
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It’s Ben Gold’s time baby! All American here we come.
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You guys realize it doesn't change his eligibility if he hires an agent anymore right? That rule changed like 5 years ago. Let him do his research, find out what to improve on, and return for a Final 4 run!!
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Hopefully Emarion Ellis removes himself from the portal now. If he truly has grown 2 inches, then he could fit this 3/4 roll and get some of Omax's minutes assuming his knee will heal completely.
There are a couple of assumptions in this post and others discussing the return of MU’s portal guys. First, that they didn’t already know O-Max’s plans when they entered the portal. Second, that entering the portal was entirely their decision. Entering the portal does not necessarily indicate that a player decided he wanted to move on. There are a lot of guys in the portal who were strongly “encouraged” to move on by a coach who told them that they didn’t figure into future plans. It’s possible that MU’s staff wouldn’t take any of our portal guys back even if they wanted to come back.
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You guys realize it doesn't change his eligibility if he hires an agent anymore right? That rule changed like 5 years ago.
#FakeNews #Lies
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#FakeNews #Lies
Polifsct says poster was Half True, just kinda fuzzy on the details.
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I agree that he was always going to declare. I don't necessarily agree that advice from those giving feedback is anywhere close to accurate. Otherwise Justin got some pretty garbage advice. Cost himself a large amount of money going undrafted.
Uhhhh what?
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If OMax leaves Marquette should find some NIL donors for this guy.
https://twitter.com/CourtsideFilms/status/1645422219898630144?t=sZPj5KFus0X9d0O-eCCgKA&s=19
Ben Gold in a year
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If OMax leaves Marquette should find some NIL donors for this guy.
https://twitter.com/CourtsideFilms/status/1645422219898630144?t=sZPj5KFus0X9d0O-eCCgKA&s=19
Yes please.
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Uhhhh what?
Justin was likely told he was getting drafted or had the potential to get drafted. That obviously didn't happen.
He's currently on a non-guaranteed contract earning almost nothing while Max Christie (a 2nd rounder drafted where Justin was projected this year) is on a 2 year guaranteed deal with the Lakers at about $2.8M
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Justin was likely told he was getting drafted or had the potential to get drafted. That obviously didn't happen.
He's currently on a non-guaranteed contract earning almost nothing while Max Christie (a 2nd rounder drafted where Justin was projected this year) is on a 2 year guaranteed deal with the Lakers at about $2.8M
Age matters a TON in drafts. Last year, FOUR Seniors were drafted.
Coming back another year doesn't always work well. Justin was First Team All Big East and the Most Improved Player in the BEAST. His stock was as high as it was going to be, and there was talk he would be drafted towards the tail end of the draft. Instead he signed a two way the same day of the draft got injured, and then signed another. His decision was fine, honestly.
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NIL bidding to recruit a player is not permissible for anyone.
How about this Jesse Edwards kid from Cuse?
Last year, Edwards averaged 14.5 points and 10.3 rebounds per game, establishing him as one of the ACC’s best big men and one of the nation’s best rebounders and rim protectors.
He ranked first in the ACC in field goal percentage (.592), second in rebounding (10.3), first in blocked shots (2.7)…
He’s a Dutch international and his dad recently complained that Syracuse couldn’t get a good NIL package for him so he had to move on, so that’s probably not good from a Marquette perspective.
However, MU has dabbled in the international (OMax/Gold) and Northeast waters with recruiting.
Haven’t seen him play, but he’s 6’11/230 and seems to fit the Shaka mold at the 5, plus he blocks a lot of shots and rebounds.
Back up a little Brinks truck for the freaky deaky Dutchman and give him all the non-Oso minutes at the 5, maybe even play them together a bit, and allow him a chance to play for a contending team with an elite all American PG.
He got 30+ mpg last year but he can be elite/efficient with 20-24mpg, but the minutes with Oso around could be a sticking point.
Seems like a dream type of scenario if you ask me, and the type of scenario that takes Marquette from a really good team to an elite team overnight.
Sounds like the dad is looking for the best package, deal or bid.
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Age matters a TON in drafts. Last year, FOUR Seniors were drafted.
Coming back another year doesn't always work well. Justin was First Team All Big East and the Most Improved Player in the BEAST. His stock was as high as it was going to be, and there was talk he would be drafted towards the tail end of the draft. Instead he signed a two way the same day of the draft got injured, and then signed another. His decision was fine, honestly.
I think his decision was fine if he made the decision based off his own wants/needs/desires.
If he left because of the advice he got from an NBA evaluator I'd say he made the wrong choice because I disagree with the fact that he reached his peak as a draftable player. I don't think that is remotely true at all.
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Sounds like the dad is looking for the best package, deal or bid.
There are rumors that Nembhard is leaving Creighton because his family is unhappy with his role and not being included on any All Conference Teams or Draft Boards.
Sometimes the families make the decisions instead of the players.
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There are rumors that Nembhard is leaving Creighton because his family is unhappy with his role and not being included on any All Conference Teams or Draft Boards.
Sometimes the families make the decisions instead of the players.
Well if he goes to Arizona, he’ll certainly have a better chance of being All Conference in that Mickey Mouse conference.
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There are rumors that Nembhard is leaving Creighton because his family is unhappy with his role and not being included on any All Conference Teams or Draft Boards.
Sometimes the families make the decisions instead of the players.
IF those rumors are true, exactly what is it that his family thought Creighton should have done in order to get him on the all-conference teams or draft boards?
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IF those rumors are true, exactly what is it that his family thought Creighton should have done in order to get him on the all-conference teams or draft boards?
Good question. Culture matters in college basketball. Creighton is learning how to navigate that at the moment. The last roster nearly took them to a Final Four. It’s now slowly imploding. Fine line to walk
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FinalFour
I think Shaka will land a starter for next season if Omax is gone. There are guys out there that fit Shaka's culture and likely they want to play on team that has a chance to be really good. Picking up one guy is far different than building a team around portal guys. I think Shaka will land a guy that recruited and missed out on the first time around.
If he does not, I think he will be missing out on a very big opportunity for next season. That said, I have no idea if Shaka is as high on next year's potential as the pollsters. If he is, he needs to get a big time replacement.
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IF those rumors are true, exactly what is it that his family thought Creighton should have done in order to get him on the all-conference teams or draft boards?
I'm sure it would have something to do with Creighton featuring Nembhard more, both in terms of scoring responsibility and credit for the team's success. He didn't stand out in a roster that showed a lot of balance, with all five starters averaging between 12 and 16 ppg, and press coverage throughout the year was balanced as well, with Alexander, Kalkbrenner and Scheierman especially getting a lot of ink.
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FinalFour
I think Shaka will land a starter for next season if Omax is gone. There are guys out there that fit Shaka's culture and likely they want to play on team that has a chance to be really good. Picking up one guy is far different than building a team around portal guys. I think Shaka will land a guy that recruited and missed out on the first time around.
If he does not, I think he will be missing out on a very big opportunity for next season. That said, I have no idea if Shaka is as high on next year's potential as the pollsters. If he is, he needs to get a big time replacement.
Goose:
I am in the camp that believes when we have players going Pro early helps the recruiting cause . Shaka can now point to both Justin and Omax as guys who blossomed under his tuteledge
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Herman
I agree. I hope we have guys going early every year. It shows the talent level at MU and great for recruiting.
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You guys realize it doesn't change his eligibility if he hires an agent anymore right? That rule changed like 5 years ago. Let him do his research, find out what to improve on, and return for a Final 4 run!!
If he hires an agent and DOESN'T get drafted.
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Sounds like we're getting a kid who isn't even in the transfer portal?
Is this the MU version of UW's silent verbals?
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FinalFour
I think Shaka will land a starter for next season if Omax is gone. There are guys out there that fit Shaka's culture and likely they want to play on team that has a chance to be really good. Picking up one guy is far different than building a team around portal guys. I think Shaka will land a guy that recruited and missed out on the first time around.
If he does not, I think he will be missing out on a very big opportunity for next season. That said, I have no idea if Shaka is as high on next year's potential as the pollsters. If he is, he needs to get a big time replacement.
I don't see this fitting with Shaka's prior statements about the culture he's trying to develop. He said he values guys that come in maybe not as the most highly rated player, but work consistently and stick around.
Going out and grabbing a starter off the portal -- essentially recruiting over guys like Joplin, Gold, and Amadou -- just doesn't seem like it's consistent with his prior comments.
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Justin was likely told he was getting drafted or had the potential to get drafted. That obviously didn't happen.
He's currently on a non-guaranteed contract earning almost nothing while Max Christie (a 2nd rounder drafted where Justin was projected this year) is on a 2 year guaranteed deal with the Lakers at about $2.8M
I wouldn't call a $508,891 salary "almost nothing".
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FinalFour
I think Shaka will land a starter for next season if Omax is gone. There are guys out there that fit Shaka's culture and likely they want to play on team that has a chance to be really good. Picking up one guy is far different than building a team around portal guys. I think Shaka will land a guy that recruited and missed out on the first time around.
If he does not, I think he will be missing out on a very big opportunity for next season. That said, I have no idea if Shaka is as high on next year's potential as the pollsters. If he is, he needs to get a big time replacement.
I get what you are saying Goose, but I think it does not match up with Shaka's culture and team building philosophies. While it is not "building a team around portal guys", in your scenario Joplin and Gold are still bench players. Would one (or worse, both) of them enter the portal, resenting that they have a portal transfer taking their potential starter position?
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Snoop
They were not going to start if Omax was there. IMO, if the pollsters are right, it is too big of a gamble to not replace that important of player. Not replacing him would be an indication to me that Shaka did not believe the preseason hype. There are not many times you go into a season ranked in the top five and you need to take advantage of it.
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There are rumors that Nembhard is leaving Creighton because his family is unhappy with his role and not being included on any All Conference Teams or Draft Boards.
Sometimes the families make the decisions instead of the players.
I wonder if he considered writing a letter
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I wonder if he considered writing a letter
It appears he stayed on the reservation until the end of the season.
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It appears he stayed on the reservation until the end of the season.
I believe Doug went a step further and said, "Plantation".
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If Shaka decides to take a peek at the players in the portal he should look at a 7 footer who is leaving Nevada. Shaka recruited him when he was coach at Texas. (2019) Will Baker has 2 years left in eligibility. High shooting pct. Has a very nice hook shot. Decent rebounder. Just sayin'.
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NIL bidding to recruit a player is not permissible for anyone.
Curious how this is enforced? As in, you can't say something like "come to Miami, we will give you a $500k NIL deal" but can you say, "there's no guarantee and we can't promise anyone anything but talk to the three guys that were in your exact situation last year and ask them what they got *wink* then make your own decision" which is virtually indistinguishable?
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I wouldn't call a $508,891 salary "almost nothing".
I hope he's OK. I would imagine Chicago has some resources available for the underemployed.
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Good question. Culture matters in college basketball. Creighton is learning how to navigate that at the moment. The last roster nearly took them to a Final Four. It’s now slowly imploding. Fine line to walk
they tried the adidas money bag drop. I guess walking that line didn’t work, hey.
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they tried the adidas money bag drop. I guess walking that line didn’t work, hey.
I think it depends on the player in question. Does that player want to put in the time and work at the college level or are they just passing through? I think you need the right coach to handle players like this, too.
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What’s everyone worried about ? It’s jop time
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panda
I like Joplin, but my expectations for next year fall quite a bit if that is Omax replacement plan.
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panda
I like Joplin, but my expectations for next year fall quite a bit if that is Omax replacement plan.
I disagree goose. Better scorer, better rebounder. More chase Ross time for energy. Net positive
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Curious how this is enforced? As in, you can't say something like "come to Miami, we will give you a $500k NIL deal" but can you say, "there's no guarantee and we can't promise anyone anything but talk to the three guys that were in your exact situation last year and ask them what they got *wink* then make your own decision" which is virtually indistinguishable?
Thus far, it's not, and I'm not sure it can be. It's naive to think this isn't going on, and honestly hasn't been going on as long as any of us have been watching college basketball.
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panda
I like Joplin, but my expectations for next year fall quite a bit if that is Omax replacement plan.
I mean they fall from like 5th to 10th. (Before transfer season is over).
The floor is still top 25-30. (Better than every Wojo team)
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jfp61
They are ranked #1 or #2 by a nice number of polls. Again, that does not happen very often, and I think Shaka sitting on his hands would be a mistake. That I said, I think he makes a move.
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I disagree goose. Better scorer, better rebounder. More chase Ross time for energy. Net positive
I think you don't fully appreciate how important Prosper was to this team defensively.
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Sounds like we're getting a kid who isn't even in the transfer portal?
Is this the MU version of UW's silent verbals?
I mean, that’s what happened with Epps and Georgetown.
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I disagree goose. Better scorer, better rebounder. More chase Ross time for energy. Net positive
Joplin-
Less efficient scorer. Worse offensive rebound. Better defensive rebounder. Why because the staff couldn’t trust Joplin to defend guards. So they stuck him on 5s and had him play drop coverage.
Joplin started to win me over near the end of last year.
But Omax was just better.
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I wouldn't call a $508,891 salary "almost nothing".
I would take that nothing salary.
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Joplin-
Less efficient scorer. Worse offensive rebound. Better defensive rebounder. Why because the staff couldn’t trust Joplin to defend guards. So they stuck him on 5s and had him play drop coverage.
Joplin started to win me over near the end of last year.
But Omax was just better.
Yup. They can't play the same way defensively without OMax or a replacement with the same physical tools.
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I think you don't fully appreciate how important Prosper was to this team defensively.
They’re very different players, but jop will thrive in a larger role. Watching jop improve defensively over the course of this season gives me very little cause for concern. He’ll never have the length omax does, but will be able to rebound signifactky better than omax. Chase can step in to change defensive looks at the 3 spot as well.
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Joplin-
Less efficient scorer. Worse offensive rebound. Better defensive rebounder. Why because the staff couldn’t trust Joplin to defend guards. So they stuck him on 5s and had him play drop coverage.
Joplin started to win me over near the end of last year.
But Omax was just better.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/
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Sounds like we're getting a kid who isn't even in the transfer portal?
Is this the MU version of UW's silent verbals?
Are we actually adding a mystery transfer? Or is this just a joke about Badger fans?
Im fine with either one.
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If Shaka decides to take a peek at the players in the portal he should look at a 7 footer who is leaving Nevada. Shaka recruited him when he was coach at Texas. (2019) Will Baker has 2 years left in eligibility. High shooting pct. Has a very nice hook shot. Decent rebounder. Just sayin'.
He left one game into season 2 w Shaka cause he got zero minutes. Just sayin
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Ben Gold is ready. I could see him and Oso improving our rebounding game. Less dependent on 3’s.
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They’re very different players, but jop will thrive in a larger role. Watching jop improve defensively over the course of this season gives me very little cause for concern. He’ll never have the length omax does, but will be able to rebound signifactky better than omax. Chase can step in to change defensive looks at the 3 spot as well.
I would agree that Joplin improved and that Chase has the ability to improve. But OMax was the primary defender on Jordan Hawkins in games #2 and #3 v. UConn, and he had two of his worst games of the year. A likely first round pick!
Joplin doesn't have that ability and I'm not sure Chase is going to improve that much.
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The things that make OMax intriguing to the NBA are the things that MU will find hardest to replace if he stays in the draft.
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Are we actually adding a mystery transfer? Or is this just a joke about Badger fans?
Im fine with either one.
Both. There were a couple posts about dropping a bag for a kid from North Dakota State...who has not entered his name into the portal.
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The team is going to Italy in August. Omax should come back just for that.
Italy, Maui, and then Scottsdale to end the year!?!? Sign me up
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I wouldn't call a $508,891 salary "almost nothing".
I don't believe that is an accurate $$$ amount.
Spotrac has non-guaranteed listed. If that is the $$$ amount then great for him!
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Both. There were a couple posts about dropping a bag for a kid from North Dakota State...who has not entered his name into the portal.
Ah, ok. I thought that was just some posters hoping for Nelson to transfer, didnt know there was legitimate smoke about him transferring to Marquette.
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Ah, ok. I thought that was just some posters hoping for Nelson to transfer, didnt know there was legitimate smoke about him transferring to Marquette.
I don't think there is?
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I would agree that Joplin improved and that Chase has the ability to improve. But OMax was the primary defender on Jordan Hawkins in games #2 and #3 v. UConn, and he had two of his worst games of the year. A likely first round pick!
Joplin doesn't have that ability and I'm not sure Chase is going to improve that much.
What makes you think that about Ross?
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I don't think there is?
I believe you are the one who initially posted about Nelson, yet he is not in portal, no rumors of his leaving and no MU or any other school mention whatsoever. Not relevant at this time at all, just a random player in the NCAA basketball arena.
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Curious how this is enforced?
Hah! It's only being enforced by JB on scoop.
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I disagree goose. Better scorer, better rebounder. More chase Ross time for energy. Net positive
Net positive? No, and that is absolutely not a dig at Ross or Jop.
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What makes you think that about Ross?
I think he will improve no doubt, but I meant to the OMax level.
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I think he will improve no doubt, but I meant to the OMax level.
Gotcha.
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I believe you are the one who initially posted about Nelson, yet he is not in portal, no rumors of his leaving and no MU or any other school mention whatsoever. Not relevant at this time at all, just a random player in the NCAA basketball arena.
I posted a link of the guy because I hadn't seen him before and he looked incredibly talented.
There is no smoke about him leaving to go to Marquette. That was never said.
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I don't believe that is an accurate $$$ amount.
Spotrac has non-guaranteed listed. If that is the $$$ amount then great for him!
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/07/2022-23-nba-two-way-contract-tracker.html
"The NBA has carried over some rule changes for two-way deals that were first introduced during the 2020/21 season. Rather than being limited to 45 days with their NBA teams, two-way players are eligible to be active for up to 50 of their team’s 82 regular season games. And instead of having their salaries determined by how many days they spend in the NBA, they’ll receive flat salaries of $508,891, half of the rookie minimum."
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I posted a link of the guy because I hadn't seen him before and he looked incredibly talented.
There is no smoke about him leaving to go to Marquette. That was never said.
I know, but he, as of when you posted had no bearing on any transfer related topic or Omax leaving topic. Not relevant at all and then posters believed something was going on.
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I would agree that Joplin improved and that Chase has the ability to improve. But OMax was the primary defender on Jordan Hawkins in games #2 and #3 v. UConn, and he had two of his worst games of the year. A likely first round pick!
Joplin doesn't have that ability and I'm not sure Chase is going to improve that much.
Agree - there will be a drop off initially defensively but think as the season goes on, we will be as good if not better as a unit. We’ll see more Ben Gold/Oso lineups when opponents personnel permits and Jop/Ross both have very high ceilings. Jop showed a ton of improvement already last year.
Offensively we’ll be far more dangerous in the half court. Jop on the floor will force opponents to guard him on the permitwr, something they didn’t do last season against omax. More driving/passing lanes for Tyler and will make our high post back cut action even more lethal.
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I posted a link of the guy because I hadn't seen him before and he looked incredibly talented.
There is no smoke about him leaving to go to Marquette. That was never said.
So why not shoot for Victor Wemanyama to replace OMax while we're at it?
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Agree - there will be a drop off initially defensively but think as the season goes on, we will be as good if not better as a unit. We’ll see more Ben Gold/Oso lineups when opponents personnel permits and Jop/Ross both have very high ceilings. Jop showed a ton of improvement already last year.
Offensively we’ll be far more dangerous in the half court. Jop on the floor will force opponents to guard him on the permitwr, something they didn’t do last season against omax. More driving/passing lanes for Tyler and will make our high post back cut action even more lethal.
Didn't realize he was such a liability. I guess Shaka should have just cut him then.
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https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2022/07/2022-23-nba-two-way-contract-tracker.html
"The NBA has carried over some rule changes for two-way deals that were first introduced during the 2020/21 season. Rather than being limited to 45 days with their NBA teams, two-way players are eligible to be active for up to 50 of their team’s 82 regular season games. And instead of having their salaries determined by how many days they spend in the NBA, they’ll receive flat salaries of $508,891, half of the rookie minimum."
But he wasn't signed to the two-way contract until early March. He isn't earning the full $508k.
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But he wasn't signed to the two-way contract until early March. He isn't earning the full $508k.
He’d already signed an initial two-way after the draft. They released him after the injury — I’d imagine he received an injury settlement for the full value of the contract, but maybe I’m extrapolating too much NFL knowledge.
EDIT: yeah, those contracts are guaranteed.
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Didn't realize he was such a liability. I guess Shaka should have just cut him then.
I’m just looking at how our roster dynamic changes with him possibly not returning. Similar to Justin leaving two years ago, I do think it will be a net positive given the multitude of options available.
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I'm certainly not the biggest OMax fan here, but people are way underrating him if they think his departure is a net positive or that Chase or Joplin can replace him.
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He’d already signed an initial two-way after the draft. They released him after the injury — I’d imagine he received an injury settlement for the full value of the contract, but maybe I’m extrapolating too much NFL knowledge.
EDIT: yeah, those contracts are guaranteed.
Thank you for reminding me that he had already signed. With regards to a contract guarantee, do you think he would have had to take a reduced buy out since the injury occurred during a "private work out?"
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I’m just looking at how our roster dynamic changes with him possibly not returning. Similar to Justin leaving two years ago, I do think it will be a net positive given the multitude of options available.
We’re a better team next year with Omax than without him as our roster currently stands. I don’t think that’s even debatable. That said I trust Shaka has a move he’ll make and hopefully it’s an upgrade
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Folks comparing the future potential of players against the value that a player had last year understand that they're not making an apples to apples comparison right? If you're going to account for potential jumps that Chase or Jop may make, you also have to consider improvements that OMax may make. We would 100% be a better team next year if OMax withdrawals from the draft.
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wades
I am a big Omax fan and I agree with you. In addition, if replaced by Chase or Joplin it takes one less option off the bench. Aside from his defense, he also had some size. If he is not replaced, my expectations for next year drop quite a bit. I do not believe that Shaka would roll the dice on not replacing him, but time will tell.
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wades
I am a big Omax fan and I agree with you. In addition, if replaced by Chase or Joplin it takes one less option off the bench. Aside from his defense, he also had some size. If he is not replaced, my expectations for next year drop quite a bit. I do not believe that Shaka would roll the dice on not replacing him, but time will tell.
I think Shaka goes after a back up center for oso. Allows BG flexibility to play in a more perimeter oriented role on the offensive end.
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I think Shaka goes after a back up center for oso. Allows BG flexibility to play in a more perimeter oriented role on the offensive end.
I think this is a good idea
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wades
I am a big Omax fan and I agree with you. In addition, if replaced by Chase or Joplin it takes one less option off the bench. Aside from his defense, he also had some size. If he is not replaced, my expectations for next year drop quite a bit. I do not believe that Shaka would roll the dice on not replacing him, but time will tell.
Good point on one less bench option when you move Chase or Joplin to the starting spot. Agreed on everything else. I doubt this is taking Shaka by surprise. I'd expect Shaka either has a good idea that OMax will return, or has a plan for his replacement. For one, Shaka does not seem like a guy who is unprepared. For two, he's dealt with early departures plenty at Texas. And for three, I think at least one of the three guys that entered into the portal probably would not have done so if OMax's spot wasn't already accounted for (by OMax or someone else).
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wades
I am a big Omax fan and I agree with you. In addition, if replaced by Chase or Joplin it takes one less option off the bench. Aside from his defense, he also had some size. If he is not replaced, my expectations for next year drop quite a bit. I do not believe that Shaka would roll the dice on not replacing him, but time will tell.
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Goose, I think he is gone because he probably can get a two way deal, I can see Ross getting more time, Joplin needs to really work on his game this summer, to shore up some of his weaknesses. Shaka needs a body, a wing or center, that has some experience
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Net positive? No, and that is absolutely not a dig at Ross or Jop.
Yeah, if Chase and Jop are a net positive over OMax, what the hell was Shaka doing this year? I really like Chase and Jop, but there is a reason OMax was starting.
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They are different players, but just like
J. Lewis, he will not get drafted. No way.
I hope he does well, but fear he will just be another in the long list of guys that never see the NBA in any real sense …
Lewis
Vander … etc etc
At bare minimum, he is going to be a force in the TBT in a few years!
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Curious how this is enforced? As in, you can't say something like "come to Miami, we will give you a $500k NIL deal" but can you say, "there's no guarantee and we can't promise anyone anything but talk to the three guys that were in your exact situation last year and ask them what they got *wink* then make your own decision" which is virtually indistinguishable?
This should have been obvious from the start. While some here promised that the new rules specifically prohibited NIL from being contingent on playing for any particular school, smart people were always going to figure out how to comply with the letter of the law while having the practical effect of tying NIL to attending a specific program.
The various athletic departments, boosters, AAU coaches, and handlers have all figured out the white space, and the proposals that seem to be running rampant this year are pretty likely to be fully vetted and compliant.
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BC
I definitely think Omax is gone. We need a big, athletic guy to fill that spot. I doubt if that spot will go unused.
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Thank you Jay Bee for the history on Will Baker. I do know he was a top 40 recruit for Smart. Texas had a lot of talent. Baker went to Nevada and just this past year made 3rd team Mountain West Conference. He didn't meet expectations. Still he's tall and you have to take a look if you want to get bigger. What are his expectations after starting at Nevada? He has graduate student expectations academically. So I don't think he's expecting too many minutes if he's in the right situation. Mu is the right situation because they are going to be ranked in the top 10 next year.
It will be difficult to replace OMax if he leaves. He did a great job defensively last year and that might have gone unnoticed. I talked about his ability offensively a number of times. He reminded me of Dennis Rodman without the colorful hair. He would come in from the wing and attack the basket and score or just flop on the floor. He needs another year at MU to develop and learn to control himself and keep his balance. Sometimes I would think just look at this guy fall on his face and not be able to get back on defense and then he would hit a three when the team needed it.
I would hope he comes back and would not change or tinker too much. Smart has the athletes he needs and some of them just need more minutes to be sustain the effort necessary to compete at this level.
And never ever disrupt the triangle offense Smart has with Oso, Tyler and Kam Jones. Gold needs more minutes and Jop does too. And good kids are coming in next year. Fear not my friends. If Omax is gone it's next man up, as they say. I say it's player development and it's good in the long run.
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Demarius Owens seems to be the future replacement for Omax in Shaka’s system. From that Rivals article he is “hyper athletic”, plays an above the rim and 6’7”. Joplin is a skilled shooter who is similar height. But can’t fill this “hyper athletic” role.
Too bad Demarius is not coming next year. To be the best team possible next year we need to fill the “hyperathletic” wing role with Omax coming back or a portal move. Ross is hyper athletic from the guard spot and will fill that role really well. But at 6’5” can’t do what Omax did for us against similarly tall wings defensively. And offensively his length is important as well (offensive rebounding, had several important tip ins this year) and Omax could finish at the rim with either hand with force that prevented being blocked at the rim.
Agree with Goose and Wades that for MU to be the best version of itself next year Omax needs to return or be replaced in the portal. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Shooter
I have said a few times that if an Omax replacement does not happen, I do not think Shaka believed this was a top five team next year. If that is the case, I hope he gets an experienced guy that has upside and multiple years to play at MU. To be honest, if everyone, including Omax returned, I am not certain they are a top five team next year. I think the potential is there, but hard for me to say it is a slam dunk.
If Omax is gone and Shaka lands a top portal guy, I am all in on the offseason hype. I say that because it would be an indication to me that Shaka thinks they can be the real deal. IMO, they need a high energy, athletic guy with size that can help on defensive side of the ball. If he can score 10+ a game it would be a bonus.
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This will definitely be an interesting case study on how Shaka will handle the fine tuning of a potential top ten caliber team now and in the future.
Love that we even get to discuss this.
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Shooter
I agree. Replacing a player if you are top 20-30 team is different than top 5, IMO. I do not think MU can have top 5 success without utilizing the portal when needed. Plus, I have to believe that every year there are guys in the portal that fit Shaka's culture and style of play. I think recruiting kids from the portal that were once targets is the best path to success because they were originally recruited because they checked the boxes on things Shaka looks for in a player.
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Even if we don't replace OMax, this is easily a top 10 team.
Obviously, with OMax, we were a top 5 team.
Maybe we can make up for it in the portal, maybe not. Either way, this has not lessened my excitement for next year.
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Thank you Jay Bee for the history on Will Baker. I do know he was a top 40 recruit for Smart. Texas had a lot of talent. Baker went to Nevada and just this past year made 3rd team Mountain West Conference. He didn't meet expectations. Still he's tall and you have to take a look if you want to get bigger. What are his expectations after starting at Nevada? He has graduate student expectations academically. So I don't think he's expecting too many minutes if he's in the right situation. Mu is the right situation because they are going to be ranked in the top 10 next year.
It will be difficult to replace OMax if he leaves. He did a great job defensively last year and that might have gone unnoticed. I talked about his ability offensively a number of times. He reminded me of Dennis Rodman without the colorful hair. He would come in from the wing and attack the basket and score or just flop on the floor. He needs another year at MU to develop and learn to control himself and keep his balance. Sometimes I would think just look at this guy fall on his face and not be able to get back on defense and then he would hit a three when the team needed it.
I would hope he comes back and would not change or tinker too much. Smart has the athletes he needs and some of them just need more minutes to be sustain the effort necessary to compete at this level.
And never ever disrupt the triangle offense Smart has with Oso, Tyler and Kam Jones. Gold needs more minutes and Jop does too. And good kids are coming in next year. Fear not my friends. If Omax is gone it's next man up, as they say. I say it's player development and it's good in the long run.
Baker had no mention of MU whatsoever in his process. He just committed to LSU.
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Coleman
If Omax is gone and no replacement, I think there will be a better chance for disappointment over being a top 10 team. That said, being a top 20 team would not surprise me, but too big of a missing piece and one less bench player to be top 10, IMO.
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This portal thing is going to be very revealing. I hope college sports aren’t ruined by it. It may go thru some growing pains such that initially players will be playing for themselves. Unless you’ve got a coach(which I believe we do) who can and will inform the TEAM that any stray from the TEAM gets you slivers from the pines. Not getting the PT would obviously disallow one from showcasing their talents…go coaches go!!
Somehow I think a guy like wojo would fare even worse in this system duhhhhh
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Baker had no mention of MU whatsoever in his process. He just committed to LSU.
Baker made sense for Shaka pre-Nevada Smith. But he transferred after playing sparsely his freshman year, then Smith arrived. I don't think he fits the style of big Shaka wants with this system. Not much of a rim protector, not sure he's quick enough for the defensive switches. What they did at Texas in Shaka's first five years he made sense for, but what Shaka has done the past 3 years, less so.
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Coleman
If Omax is gone and no replacement, I think there will be a better chance for disappointment over being a top 10 team. That said, being a top 20 team would not surprise me, but too big of a missing piece and one less bench player to be top 10, IMO.
Top 20 teams make it to sweet 16, elite 8 and final 4 too goose
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Coleman
If Omax is gone and no replacement, I think there will be a better chance for disappointment over being a top 10 team. That said, being a top 20 team would not surprise me, but too big of a missing piece and one less bench player to be top 10, IMO.
I just don’t understand why you, someone who was in on Shaka and his “family” and “relationships” MO so early, are pushing so hard for him to use the portal to bring in a starting caliber player to jump one of the guys who should be next up. We’ve heard it straight from Shakas mouth dozens of times now: we’re not going to be a big portal team.
I want to win and take advantage of this really promising team as much as the next guy. But when we’ve gotten to this point in two years, the exact way Shaka said we would, you don’t move away from that the first time you face some adversity.
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We’ve used the portal every year to attempt to get better. Shaka has cultivated a strong culture. If not for injury the portal would have changed up mins this year.
These things are all true and don’t need to conflict.
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Tha Hound
I do not think getting a portal guy with 2-3 years of eligibility is changing the culture or the plan for the program. My guess is MU is likely to lose 1-2 guys every year to the draft or portal and that is life. I definitely am 100% in on Shaka's plan and do think getting a high character portal guy when needed can fit that plan.
As for one of the guys are next guy up, if they are up to the task I am all for it. If not, that is when you get a portal guy. Plus, if Joplin is that next guy up, who replaces his role from this year on the team going forward? I am not in favor of flat out recruiting over guys, but recruiting to fill role is pretty important in my book.
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If O-Max doesn't return, we'll see how Shaka adapts. I'm not necessarily expecting an O-Max type impact transfer.
Joplin would naturally ascend to a starting spot and Gold would take Joplin's old role of first F off the bench. If Gold skyrockets past Joplin, that would be a pleasant surprise and boost next year's ceiling.
Amadou is a bit raw, so probably need at least one more player for depth. Injuries and foul trouble would be a concern.
Without O-Max, I'm sure Shaka would scheme differently. Joplin won't be spearheading a press or guarding primary offensive weapons. Maybe we'd see some 4 guard lineups in certain situations to make up for O-Max's loss. Maybe some different zone schemes mixed in.
At any rate, I trust Shaka to adapt his scheme to his roster. What pieces he tries to add will be up to Shaka.
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I just don’t understand why you, someone who was in on Shaka and his “family” and “relationships” MO so early, are pushing so hard for him to use the portal to bring in a starting caliber player to jump one of the guys who should be next up. We’ve heard it straight from Shakas mouth dozens of times now: we’re not going to be a big portal team.
Yet he's used it both of his off-seasons here.
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Yet he's used it both of his off-seasons here.
Though, the first year was more out of necessity. Last year was no big splash with Wrightsil coming from an NAIA school. And, nothing yet this year.
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Though, the first year was more out of necessity. Last year was no big splash with Wrightsil coming from an NAIA school. And, nothing yet this year.
Thanks for confirming the accuracy of my statement!
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Though, the first year was more out of necessity. Last year was no big splash with Wrightsil coming from an NAIA school. And, nothing yet this year.
Unfortunately we didn’t get to see what kind of splash Wrightsil was brought in for due to injury. At a minimum, he pushed players to get better over last summer thinking they were competing with him for playing time.
Keep bringing in as much talent as you can and let them compete for playing time. Injuries will happen, need depth behind. No guarantees on playing time. Should all be part of the culture to continue improving.
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I didn’t read thru all 11 pages, but is there any possibility of Wrightsil returning to eat some of O-Max’s mins?
Obviously Shaka felt good enough about Zach to bring him here in the first place, why not???
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I didn’t read thru all 11 pages, but is there any possibility of Wrightsil returning to eat some of O-Max’s mins?
Obviously Shaka felt good enough about Zach to bring him here in the first place, why not???
That as before he was out almost all year with a knee; couple of surgeries, etc
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I didn’t read thru all 11 pages, but is there any possibility of Wrightsil returning to eat some of O-Max’s mins?
Obviously Shaka felt good enough about Zach to bring him here in the first place, why not???
Honestly, watching Wrightsil on the bench and seeing him in the locker room with the guys, if Shaka finds himself with an open scholarship, I'd have no objection to him using it on Zach even if he's not going to play next year. I think he contributed quite a beat to the team this past season even without being on the floor. I think he was my wife's second favorite player on the team (behind Kam).
I suspect Zach might be looking for something more, however.
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Yeah, if Chase and Jop are a net positive over OMax, what the hell was Shaka doing this year? I really like Chase and Jop, but there is a reason OMax was starting.
It is not last year, it is next season. If could very well be that Jop and Ross are a net positive next year.
Just like last year's team did not need Lewis.
Besides Jop and Ross it gives some freshmen a chance to play.
Omax was the player that frustrated me the most, so I am not crying if he leaves.
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Yet he's used it both of his off-seasons here.
Lol, neither situation was remotely comparable.
First year - Brand new coach coming in, had no existing relationships from which he could build. Used to portal to build a long-term core of the team.
Second year - Brought in one D2 guy who absolutely no one had penciled in jumping any player from the original core team
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Typical MU fan. I didn't like the guy with the best chance of playing in the league. Better off without him. Except, the qualities that are most desirable to NBA teams are what next year's team will miss the most. 6'8 players who can guard 5 positions and also throw an inbounds pass and get then get the game winning follow tip-in 6 seconds later are not a dime a dozen.
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Typical MU fan. I didn't like the guy with the best chance of playing in the league. Better off without him. Except, the qualities that are most desirable to NBA teams are what next year's team will miss the most. 6'8 players who can guard 5 positions and also throw an inbounds pass and get then get the game winning follow tip-in 6 seconds later are not a dime a dozen.
Correct.
If Omax is gone we are losing our 2nd best player.
Sorry guys, its going to be very difficult to replace him with anyone on the roster, and I doubt anyone that would be getting a call from the portal would be better than he is.
The mental gymnastics that people go through around here are hilarious. Omax is a borderline NBA player. Those dudes don't just fall out of the sky.
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I’d be a lot more concerned if we lost Tyler or oso. There is no suitable replacement for those two whereas we have three capable replacements which all bring varied looks on both ends of the floor. None of those three can replicate his defensive length but they will offer at minimum, a net neutral and imo a net positive impact as a whole.
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Correct.
If Omax is gone we are losing our 2nd best player.
Sorry guys, its going to be very difficult to replace him with anyone on the roster, and I doubt anyone that would be getting a call from the portal would be better than he is.
The mental gymnastics that people go through around here are hilarious. Omax is a borderline NBA player. Those dudes don't just fall out of the sky.
2nd best player? No, strongly disagree there. But if he goes it's a big loss, specifically on defense. We have no one else with his combination of length and athleticism that is as versatile defensively.
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Yeah, Omax definitely frustrates me the most of the regulars by far. But thats because of his skillset and overall potential.
Anyone who thinks he wouldnt be a loss or would shrug off him being gone from next years team is nuts. Completely changes the D.
And still does plenty on offense. Solid at the line, about the only guy who even got there and great inside the arc with his athleticism even if he falls over 85% of time.
Hope he returns
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1. OMax not returning would be a loss.
2. Good programs lose top players every year and remain good programs.
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Yeah, Omax definitely frustrates me the most of the regulars by far. But thats because of his skillset and overall potential.
Anyone who thinks he wouldnt be a loss or would shrug off him being gone from next years team is nuts. Completely changes the D.
And still does plenty on offense. Solid at the line, about the only guy who even got there and great inside the arc with his athleticism even if he falls over 85% of time.
Hope he returns
I do as well. He is an integral part of the success of this 22-23 team. But, of course, that’s his decision and his future. But would surely love to have him back for another run.
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I love O-Max and what he does for this team. I think he's the difference between the #1 overall and merely a top-10 ranking. That said, I think Kolek & Oso are the most irreplaceable players. Joplin & Gold would ease that blow. The strength of this team is still the team.
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Everyone is replaceable. You need to trust in the system and the ability for everyone to adapt.
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nm
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Second year - Brought in one D2 guy who absolutely no one had penciled in jumping any player from the original core team
I don't know how you are defining "original core team," but I think plenty of people thought he would play a major role on this team.
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Shaka doesn’t recruit. Shaka selects. Winning.
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I love O-Max and what he does for this team. I think he's the difference between the #1 overall and merely a top-10 ranking. That said, I think Kolek & Oso are the most irreplaceable players. Joplin & Gold would ease that blow. The strength of this team is still the team.
1000%
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I don't know how you are defining "original core team," but I think plenty of people thought he would play a major role on this team.
So lawdog found the minutes distribution topic. Of the eight people who made specific guesses three picked him in the top five, three picked him sixth, one seventh and one eighth.
Seems like a lot of people viewed him as jumping a "core player" before he got here.
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Watching OMax this year and projecting his development reminds me a lot of junior year Wes. Earlier in his MU career, Wes was third fiddle behind Dom and Jerel, and sometimes looked to be moving through cement compared to the dynamicism of the other two. But he had an NBA frame and a ton of hustle and heart, and as he got older and stronger it clicked and he became a great defender and NBA prospect. Considering that Omax has an extra 3 inches on Wes and averaged an extra 3PA per game last year vs Wes, and shot a higher %, I can see why he would be bullish on his prospects as an NBA wing.
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1. OMax not returning would be a loss.
2. Good programs lose top players every year and remain good programs.
This.
I love O-Max and what he does for this team. I think he's the difference between the #1 overall and merely a top-10 ranking. That said, I think Kolek & Oso are the most irreplaceable players. Joplin & Gold would ease that blow. The strength of this team is still the team.
And this.
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I recall all the wailing and gnashing of teeth a year ago when Justin left. Somehow we managed to win the conference without him or any transfers that got playing time.
I trust Shaka to make it work.
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I recall all the wailing and gnashing of teeth a year ago when Justin left. Somehow we managed to win the conference without him or any transfers that got playing time.
I trust Shaka to make it work.
Amen, Chick. Amen.
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I think Omax is sore important piece than people are giving him credit for. Removing the best defender from an average defense is usually not a good thing. Joplin improved defensively towards the end of last season but I don't think he can get to OMaxs level defensively.
I still think the answer is to get a Kur. Whether or not Omax comes back
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Get high
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I recall all the wailing and gnashing of teeth a year ago when Justin left. Somehow we managed to win the conference without him or any transfers that got playing time.
I trust Shaka to make it work.
Yep, and the previous off season of all the predictions of scoring in the 50’s.
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TAMU
I agree 100%. We do not need a guy that needs to score a lot of points. We need an athletic big guy that can be disruptive on defense. As I mentioned before, I thought we were a Kur away from being really, really good this past season.
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TAMU
I agree 100%. We do not need a guy that needs to score a lot of points. We need an athletic big guy that can be disruptive on defense. As I mentioned before, I thought we were a Kur away from being really, really good this past season.
Well, if we can find a Kur who would be willing to play 10 minutes per game.
That's the real problem.
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Correct.
If Omax is gone we are losing our 2nd best player.
Sorry guys, its going to be very difficult to replace him with anyone on the roster, and I doubt anyone that would be getting a call from the portal would be better than he is.
The mental gymnastics that people go through around here are hilarious. Omax is a borderline NBA player. Those dudes don't just fall out of the sky.
I think a lot of it is because people wildly under value defense. AT the end of the season, OMax was taking on opponents' best offensive players and absolutely shutting them down, but if didn't also score 18+ points a lot (not all) of people shrug their shoulders.
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Brewcity77 thank you for the update on Will Baker. I understand and I agree with you. So he went to LSU. A friend of mine, a Nevada alum told me today, Will couldn't play more than five minutes before he got winded. If you have an open scholarship and a guy that size is willing to come off bench and play for even five minutes it could help the team. Nix that. I would say it's better to give Gold those minutes. And more minutes. And I believe Omax is coming back. I would not panic and jump into the portal right now.
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I think a lot of it is because people wildly under value defense. AT the end of the season, OMax was taking on opponents' best offensive players and absolutely shutting them down, but if didn't also score 18+ points a lot (not all) of people shrug their shoulders.
Stevie’s height unfortunately limits him in comparison to omax, but he will be a shut down on ball defender next year and better off the ball than prosper.
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Brewcity77 thank you for the update on Will Baker. I understand and I agree with you. So he went to LSU. A friend of mine, a Nevada alum told me today, Will couldn't play more than five minutes before he got winded. If you have an open scholarship and a guy that size is willing to come off bench and play for even five minutes it could help the team. Nix that. I would say it's better to give Gold those minutes. And more minutes. And I believe Omax is coming back. I would not panic and jump into the portal right now.
Let's say you want to give Gold more minutes, let's say O-Max returns, and let's say Baker wants to come to Marquette but there's nobody else in the portal Shaka thinks would be a great fit.
You take Baker.
He'd be an insurance policy if there's an injury, or if Oso and Gold get in foul trouble, or if the opponent likes playing two bigs at once (such as X before Freemantle got hurt).
If O-Max returns and we can get a big who can play a role and doesn't mind playing limited minutes in some games -- a 5-10 minute version of Kuath or Jayce Johnson -- why not fill the 13th scholarship?
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I think a lot of it is because people wildly under value defense. AT the end of the season, OMax was taking on opponents' best offensive players and absolutely shutting them down, but if didn't also score 18+ points a lot (not all) of people shrug their shoulders.
Agreed.
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I think a lot of it is because people wildly under value defense. AT the end of the season, OMax was taking on opponents' best offensive players and absolutely shutting them down, but if didn't also score 18+ points a lot (not all) of people shrug their shoulders.
And another "agreed". Well said.
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Watching OMax this year and projecting his development reminds me a lot of junior year Wes. Earlier in his MU career, Wes was third fiddle behind Dom and Jerel, and sometimes looked to be moving through cement compared to the dynamicism of the other two. But he had an NBA frame and a ton of hustle and heart, and as he got older and stronger it clicked and he became a great defender and NBA prospect. Considering that Omax has an extra 3 inches on Wes and averaged an extra 3PA per game last year vs Wes, and shot a higher %, I can see why he would be bullish on his prospects as an NBA wing.
Great comparison.
As for Wes, I recall watching that Great Alaska Shootout when the Amigos were freshman and thinking that Wes was going to be the best of the three. His injury shortly thereafter hindered his development and he never really became the alpha of of the group at MU. But his size, shooting and defense were all better than Jerel and Dom in the long run, translating to a better NBA career.
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I think a lot of it is because people wildly under value defense. AT the end of the season, OMax was taking on opponents' best offensive players and absolutely shutting them down, but if didn't also score 18+ points a lot (not all) of people shrug their shoulders.
Yep
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I recall all the wailing and gnashing of teeth a year ago when Justin left. Somehow we managed to win the conference without him or any transfers that got playing time.
I trust Shaka to make it work.
I remember 4ever was the leader of this movement and was correct. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Aina. Great minds think alike, Chick.
But Omax seems to fit Shaka’s system better than Lewis and his defense is clearly one of the reasons we beat UConn the eventual national champion twice. I hope he stays because another uptick in confidence and productivity on the offensive end would be enormous for this team.
In the end though, you are right, we should all trust Shaka to make it work no matter who leaves.
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I remember 4ever was the leader of this movement and was correct. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Aina. Great minds think alike, Chick.
But Omax seems to fit Shaka’s system better than Lewis and his defense is clearly one of the reasons we beat UConn the eventual national champion twice. I hope he stays because another uptick in confidence and productivity on the offensive end would be enormous for this team.
In the end though, you are right, we should all trust Shaka to make it work no matter who leaves.
Of course. Our COY will figure out what's best. Maybe he'll even turn to Scoop for some ideas. There are a few friendly suggestions for him here from time to time.
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Of course. Our COY will figure out what's best. Maybe he'll even turn to Scoop for some ideas. There are a few friendly suggestions for him here from time to time.
I doubt Shaka has a 1977 Warriors pennant hanging in his living room
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I doubt Shaka has a 1977 Warriors pennant hanging in his living room
if he doesn’t, we need to get him one, hey
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So lawdog found the minutes distribution topic. Of the eight people who made specific guesses three picked him in the top five, three picked him sixth, one seventh and one eighth.
Seems like a lot of people viewed him as jumping a "core player" before he got here.
That's not a precise recounting of my post. Either way, I dont see how anyone could read those results you mentioned above (not to mention a laughable sample size) and think it supports your argument. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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If this question has been answered somewhere, I missed it. Is Omax on campus and attending classes? I'm guessing not. I know that does not necessarily mean that a player has an above average chance of returning. My take on his "farewell address" was that he's definitely not coming back period and has left campus, although a few here believe he will return. Whether he plays in the US or in another country, good luck to him.
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If this question has been answered somewhere, I missed it. Is Omax on campus and attending classes? I'm guessing not. I know that does not necessarily mean that a player has an above average chance of returning. My take on his "farewell address" was that he's definitely not coming back period and has left campus, although a few here believe he will return. Whether he plays in the US or in another country, good luck to him.
Good question. If he's stopped going to class entirely, that's a pretty good sign that he gowne.
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Good question. If he's stopped going to class entirely, that's a pretty good sign that he gowne.
He stopped going to class entirely? Who is he, Katin Reinhardt?
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Nobody has said that. One poster said 'if'.
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There are all sorts of possibilities to do work remotely. I would read anything into presence on campus.
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There are all sorts of possibilities to do work remotely. I would read anything into presence on campus.
Just remember that he would lose his eligibility if he misses class to participate in a tryout (including travel time).
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Just remember that he would lose his eligibility if he misses class to participate in a tryout (including travel time).
If remote work requires you to log in at a specific time of course.
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There are all sorts of possibilities to do work remotely. I would read anything into presence on campus.
that may work at north carolina, but some classes mandate your a$$ in the chair
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that may work at north carolina, but some classes mandate your a$$ in the chair
Well since neither you nor I know his schedule, we don't know if that's the case or not.
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that may work at north carolina, but some classes mandate your a$$ in the chair
And yet Marquette offers completely online obtained degrees...
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that may work at north carolina, but some classes mandate your a$$ in the chair
every university can be an online post covid.
There are harvard law students that spent 2/3 years online.
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If this question has been answered somewhere, I missed it. Is Omax on campus and attending classes? I'm guessing not. I know that does not necessarily mean that a player has an above average chance of returning. My take on his "farewell address" was that he's definitely not coming back period and has left campus, although a few here believe he will return. Whether he plays in the US or in another country, good luck to him.
Damn! I'm sorry I posed this question.
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Mr. Dodds says 10 Percent chance O Max returns.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/omax-declares-for-draft-208241733/?page=4#M208669874
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Mr. Dodds says 10 Percent chance O Max returns.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/omax-declares-for-draft-208241733/?page=4#M208669874
Good news for Marquette! OMax will be back based on that report
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Mr. Dodds says 10 Percent chance O Max returns.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/omax-declares-for-draft-208241733/?page=4#M208669874
He’s got zero percent clue on this one
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Why stop there? Dodds is clueless about a lot of things
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Mr. Dodds says 10 Percent chance O Max returns.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/omax-declares-for-draft-208241733/?page=4#M208669874
Well he's going to be proven right either way. Either OMAX falls in the 10% side, or the 90% side. Brilliant!!
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Why stop there? Dodds is clueless about a lot of things
I agree with this analysis.
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Mr. Dodds says 10 Percent chance O Max returns.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/omax-declares-for-draft-208241733/?page=4#M208669874
I put my trust in BrewCity77!!! If Alan likes what he's hearing, I'm rolling with that.
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Mr. Dodds says 10 Percent chance O Max returns.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/omax-declares-for-draft-208241733/?page=4#M208669874
Lmao
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TGE who seems to have a lot of reliable info also states that if OMAX goes Shaka replaces with existing team members.
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Mr. Dodds says 10 Percent chance O Max returns.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/omax-declares-for-draft-208241733/?page=4#M208669874
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/j6uK36y32LxQs/giphy.gif)
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TGE who seems to have a lot of reliable info also states that if OMAX goes Shaka replaces with existing team members.
I appreciate Shaka’s focus on culture, but he’s got to land high level transfers at some point. We can’t be playing with one hand tied behind our back. Literally every other Big East team is going to have a high impact transfer coming in except us and Seton Hall. I don’t want to be associated with Seton Hall.
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I appreciate Shaka’s focus on culture, but he’s got to land high level transfers at some point. We can’t be playing with one hand tied behind our back. Literally every other Big East team is going to have a high impact transfer coming in except us and Seton Hall. I don’t want to be associated with Seton Hall.
If only the world were so black and white. There are so many considerations into recruiting players, whether in the portal or otherwise. Does it disrupt team chemistry? What are the incoming player’s expectations? What about the returning players’ expectations? What role does the “impact transfer” fit? How does NiL fit in? What do the coaches see in terms of projected in-program player progress versus what is available in the portal?
It is overly simplistic to just say if Omax goes, we need a high impact transfer. Especially when you have a very strong nucleus from which big things are expected.
Guys like Omax — totally bought in, defensively a menace, with NBA type tangibles — don’t grow on trees and aren’t easily replaced.
I think Omax not returning to MU would be a huge loss. I think we undervalue his importance to the well-oiled machine that was Marquette 22-23 partially because he can be so frustrating at times. However a panicked response that just reaches for the first “impact transfer,” isn’t the answer.
I have no doubt Shaka has gone through all the variables and will settle on what he realistically can attain and count on without threatening the stability of the apple cart.
That said, if there is a 6-8 selfless team-oriented defensive stopper with 3 point range and athleticism that is available sign him up, even if he looks like he plays on roller skates!!
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TGE who seems to have a lot of reliable info also states that if OMAX goes Shaka replaces with existing team members.
I think he's right. But Shaka may still bring in a transfer at another position. We're missing a Kur
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After 17-3 plus the BET, I can’t believe anyone is questioning Shaka’s roster construction.
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After 17-3 plus the BET, I can’t believe anyone is questioning Shaka’s roster construction.
Sir, this is Scoop
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After 17-3 plus the BET, I can’t believe anyone is questioning Shaka’s roster construction.
Yeah if OMax returns, we will have every player back from a team that won its first outright regular season and BET title, and had a #2 seed.
But apparently we still need a "high level transfer."
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I appreciate Shaka’s focus on culture, but he’s got to land high level transfers at some point. We can’t be playing with one hand tied behind our back. Literally every other Big East team is going to have a high impact transfer coming in except us and Seton Hall. I don’t want to be associated with Seton Hall.
As others have noted, this is a bit silly. I don't think UConn, DePaul, or Seton Hall have added a "high impact transfer." But you know what's a lot closer to being true for "literally every other Big East team"? Transfers out.
- Butler: Ali, Lukosius, Taylor, Harris
- UConn: Alleyne
- Creighton: Nembhard
- DePaul: Gebrewhit, Bynum
- Georgetown: Wahab, Murray, Spears
- Providence: Bynum
- Seton Hall: Samuel, Yetna, Odukale
- St. John's: Jones, Alexander, Storr, Addae-Wusu
- Villanova: Brizzi (not much impact, they're the other exception)
- Xavier: Edwards, Tandy
Our biggest impact was Keeyan Itejere. We are winning the portal not because of what we added, but because of what we haven't lost.
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Yeah if OMax returns, we will have every player back from a team that won its first outright regular season and BET title, and had a #2 seed.
But apparently we still need a "high level transfer."
Well OMax's return is the big unknown. And if OMax is gone, it does leave a big hole. A hole that could only be plugged with a "high level" transfer.
Obviously if OMax returns, we don't need to do anything. But you act as though it is a given.
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A hole that could only be plugged with a "high level" transfer.
Totally disagree. I think the combo of Job and Ben Gold will be fine. I know they’re not the defenders Omax is but I also think Omax’s defense is overrated. He’s a good defender and I know he shut down Jordan Hawkins in New York but the way some people talk you’d think he was Scottie Pippen. I also think we’ll run 4 guard lineups and Chase will step up in a bigger role. Lastly, I think Zaide will be a contributor from day 1
Losing Omax is obviously worse than him staying but I like the current guys to replace him
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Well OMax's return is the big unknown. And if OMax is gone, it does leave a big hole. A hole that could only be plugged with a "high level" transfer.
Obviously if OMax returns, we don't need to do anything. But you act as though it is a given.
So if Omax does not return, will we:
1) only score in the 50's like the predictions for the the 2021-2022 team
2) be picked 9th in the BE pre-season like the predictions for 2022-2023 team
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I think the combo of Job and Ben Gold will be fine.
I dunno. According to the Old Testament, things got pretty rough for Job!
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Totally disagree. I think the combo of Job and Ben Gold will be fine.
I’m in the same boat. If Joplin entered the transfer portal, he would be right near the top of the rankings and would be the type of transfer we would be looking to add anyway.
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Totally disagree. I think the combo of Job and Ben Gold will be fine.
Job is in for a whale of a season. You can book it!
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I’m in the same boat. If Joplin entered the transfer portal, he would be right near the top of the rankings and would be the type of transfer we would be looking to add anyway.
This is exactly right. If we could add a high major 6'7" wing with two years left who averaged double-digit scoring off the bench, had a better defensive rebounding percentage than O-Max, and shot 40% from three, we would be wildly excited, saying he was the difference maker we needed to win the title. This isn't to diminish O-Max, we are better with him, but we go from surefire top-3 team with him to still top-10 team without him.
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NM
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Last year I was disappointed that we didn't add a high impact transfer after losing Justin Lewis, Darryl Morsell, Greg Elliot, and Kur Kuath. We earned a two seed.
This year, even if we do lose OMax, I'll place my trust in Shaka.
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I’m in the same boat. If Joplin entered the transfer portal, he would be right near the top of the rankings and would be the type of transfer we would be looking to add anyway.
That's a great point.
Let's say Joplin put up the exact same stats at Auburn and was the SEC's 6th Man of the Year. And let's say he then entered the transfer portal. Lots of us here would be saying, "With O-Max maybe leaving, I sure hope Shaka is looking at this Joplin kid!"
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Who takes Joplin's roll if OMax stays in the Draft and Jop is our big time addition to the starting lineup?
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Who takes Joplin's roll if OMax stays in the Draft and Jop is our big time addition to the starting lineup?
Chase and Zaide
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Ben Gold.
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Who takes Joplin's roll if OMax stays in the Draft and Jop is our big time addition to the starting lineup?
That's also a great point, as the scenario above obviously would affect the depth.
Numerically, and from what observers are saying about skill level, perhaps the answer would be some combination of Gold, Ross and Norman. But bringing Norman or Ross off the bench to play a role similar to what Joplin did this past season, we'd be giving up a lot of size; and bringing Gold in we'd be using our only backup 5 in a different role.
It's fun to speculate about all of this, but until we know what O-Max actually is gonna do that's all it is.
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Who takes Joplin's roll if OMax stays in the Draft and Jop is our big time addition to the starting lineup?
Agreed, thats a spot we could use some help. See my post in the portal thread:
Given that Omax could come back, and we have decent replacement options for him regardless: I'd like to see Shaka bring in someone in the mold of Kolek/Omax. A kid with multiple years of eligibility, promising freshman year performance, who doesn't need immediately playing time, but could play right off the bat if need be. A 4 or 5 would be ideal, given the glut of guards on the roster. Certainly not a ton of those out there but given Shaka's success with Tyler/Omax I think we could make a solid case.
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Who takes Joplin's roll if OMax stays in the Draft and Jop is our big time addition to the starting lineup?
I lean toward Gold. I was encouraged when they played him alongside Oso more and more late in the season. He just continued to look better on both ends as the year went on.
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I lean toward Gold. I was encouraged when they played him alongside Oso more and more late in the season. He just continued to look better on both ends as the year went on.
Isn’t the question who takes Jop’s role? Jop takes the Omax role and then Chase/Zaide take the Jop role. I think Ben remains the backup for Oso and Jop in his new Omax spot
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Who takes Joplin's roll if OMax stays in the Draft and Jop is our big time addition to the starting lineup?
Here is how next year's underclassmen fall in terms of recruiting rankings:
- Tre Norman - 4* (.9664)
- Al Amadou - 3* (.9334)
- Zaide Lowery - 3* (.9306)
- Sean Jones - 3* (.9216)
- Chase Ross - 3* (.9028)
247 doesn't have rankings for international recruits.
I think the most logical assumption is that Chase and/or Ben will step up and fill in Joplin's role. I think it's absolutely reasonable to believe that some combination of next year's freshman will be able to back fill those reserve minutes that Chase and Ben played this season.
I hope O-Max returns -- I agree that he was a big part of the team and is not easily replaced. And I'm totally open to a transfer if the staff thinks it makes sense. But even if O-Max doesn't return and we don't get a transfer, I think the addition of three solid freshman recruits will give the team some options.
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I expect Zaire or Tray to take Jop’s roll
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Isn’t the question who takes Jop’s role? Jop takes the Omax role and then Chase/Zaide take the Jop role. I think Ben remains the backup for Oso and Jop in his new Omax spot
That's what I was answering. I think Gold remains Oso's backup, but I think he can continue to play the 3/4 as well. His length and athleticism allows him to fit well in our mostly positionless system.
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It is possible that Jop keeps his role and Gold starts.
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It is possible that Jop keeps his role and Gold starts.
Seems unlikely…….you wouldn’t want to risk early fouls on your starting 5 man and your only viable back up 5 man.
If you don’t add someone( if OMax leaves) you better be sure that Amadou is ready to contribute if needed…..or you are 1 injury away from having 2 players in the rotation taller then 6’5.
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I expect Zaire or Tray to take Jop’s roll
Ha!
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Ha!
I would think it is Amadou.
He's 6'8" and can shoot.
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We'll see if Ama-Can-Do
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We'll see if Ama-Can-Do
Summer will be an important time to incorporate the freshman. Zaide has played in a high level league and did very well. He might be more ready to play, plus he seems to be physically ready. What I see is 12 kids that can play, Omax would be missed. He will probably get a two way contract because he will not be drafted. He spends way to much time falling down as he needs to add muscle. To inconsistent right now.
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I’ve noticed a few things in this thread
1- very little talk of Sean Jones 22 makes me think that scoop faithful consider him deep bench next man out fodder
2- not as many Tre Norman expectations as I would have imagined.
I’ll give my prediction.
If OMax returns- same starting 5
TyKo, Kam, Stevie, OMax, Oso.
First three off the bench Jop, Tre, SJ22
I think Tre gets more minutes that Stevie by years end, Stevie becomes 6th man lockdown versatile guard that can score some in spurts. Sean spells the 1/2, Tre spells the 2/3, Jop spells the 3/4 depending on matchups.
If Omax doesn’t continue to develop Jop passes him up in minutes due to his elite scoring ability- that’s one of the risks of OMax returning. If you can’t beat out Jop you can’t beat out NBA dudes tho, so come on back OMax.
Btw that first 8 above is an Elite8 at worst type squad barring a disaster.
And I haven’t even mentioned the 4th guy off the bench, Ben to spell Oso at the 5. Then there’s Zaide Lowery and Al Amadou. I’m most excited about Zaide from next years class, which might seem insane with what I said about Tre above, but it sort of reminds me of the DawsonG/JLew class where I knew that Lewis would become a Marquette favorite.
I think Zaide will have the longer, more fruitful MU career but it will take him a bit more time to transition.
I got down this far and just realized I missed Chase Ross.
Now it becomes clear to see why Shaka isn’t going nuts in the portal.
In the above scenario Ross slides in off the bench in the group with Jop, Ross, Tre, SJ22. Ross spells the 2/3 with Tre, but there aren’t a lot of minutes to be had there so now we are logjammin.
If OMax doesn’t return.
TyKo, Kam, Tre, Jop, Oso starting 5.
Stevie (spells 1-3), Chase (spells 2-4), SJ22 (spells 1/2), Ben (spells 4/5), Zaide (3/4) and Al with limited minutes.
I’m sure my Tre prediction will surprise most, but I think the hype might be real in the short term. Not sure how it ends up long term until we see him play regularly. I also think Stevie is an amazing kid, the best ball defender on the team, but destined to a super sub 6th man elite guard defender role until I see otherwise.
I think he finds a nice role in a championship caliber MU team, just like he found a nice roll in a BE championship MU team.
What stands out to me is how much “cleaner” the sans OMax prediction squad is- easier roles, easier to find guys minutes, better build up and experience for the future etc.
What also stands out is how much more elite the with OMax squad is.
That’s a championship squad, the one without him is a good squad that will need a lot to come together to become a championship squad.
When you push good players into a reserve role because upperclassmen that can’t lose their starting spot are running the show you get a lot of good results.
If Kolek stumbles a bit so what, there’s guys to step in and the team is so stacked that it’ll be ok.
Same with Omax, or Kam, but maybe still not Oso (let’s go Shaka with that portal Magic!)
If OMax leaves the margin for error becomes much smaller. The future develops quicker and that’s good, but in this day and age you don’t get runs at magic often.
Hope he comes back
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I’ve noticed a few things in this thread
1- very little talk of Sean Jones 22 makes me think that scoop faithful consider him deep bench next man out fodder
2- not as many Tre Norman expectations as I would have imagined.
I’ll give my prediction.
If OMax returns- same starting 5
TyKo, Kam, Stevie, OMax, Oso.
First three off the bench Jop, Tre, SJ22
I think Tre gets more minutes that Stevie by years end, Stevie becomes 6th man lockdown versatile guard that can score some in spurts. Sean spells the 1/2, Tre spells the 2/3, Jop spells the 3/4 depending on matchups.
If Omax doesn’t continue to develop Jop passes him up in minutes due to his elite scoring ability- that’s one of the risks of OMax returning. If you can’t beat out Jop you can’t beat out NBA dudes tho, so come on back OMax.
Btw that first 8 above is an Elite8 at worst type squad barring a disaster.
And I haven’t even mentioned the 4th guy off the bench, Ben to spell Oso at the 5. Then there’s Zaide Lowery and Al Amadou. I’m most excited about Zaide from next years class, which might seem insane with what I said about Tre above, but it sort of reminds me of the DawsonG/JLew class where I knew that Lewis would become a Marquette favorite.
I think Zaide will have the longer, more fruitful MU career but it will take him a bit more time to transition.
I got down this far and just realized I missed Chase Ross.
Now it becomes clear to see why Shaka isn’t going nuts in the portal.
In the above scenario Ross slides in off the bench in the group with Jop, Ross, Tre, SJ22. Ross spells the 2/3 with Tre, but there aren’t a lot of minutes to be had there so now we are logjammin.
If OMax doesn’t return.
TyKo, Kam, Tre, Jop, Oso starting 5.
Stevie (spells 1-3), Chase (spells 2-4), SJ22 (spells 1/2), Ben (spells 4/5), Zaide (3/4) and Al with limited minutes.
I’m sure my Tre prediction will surprise most, but I think the hype might be real in the short term. Not sure how it ends up long term until we see him play regularly. I also think Stevie is an amazing kid, the best ball defender on the team, but destined to a super sub 6th man elite guard defender role until I see otherwise.
I think he finds a nice role in a championship caliber MU team, just like he found a nice roll in a BE championship MU team.
What stands out to me is how much “cleaner” the sans OMax prediction squad is- easier roles, easier to find guys minutes, better build up and experience for the future etc.
What also stands out is how much more elite the with OMax squad is.
That’s a championship squad, the one without him is a good squad that will need a lot to come together to become a championship squad.
When you push good players into a reserve role because upperclassmen that can’t lose their starting spot are running the show you get a lot of good results.
If Kolek stumbles a bit so what, there’s guys to step in and the team is so stacked that it’ll be ok.
Same with Omax, or Kam, but maybe still not Oso (let’s go Shaka with that portal Magic!)
If OMax leaves the margin for error becomes much smaller. The future develops quicker and that’s good, but in this day and age you don’t get runs at magic often.
Hope he comes back
Omax is gone, and I agree with your without Omax assessment. My thought is Shaka is not going to the portal. He likes his returning guys, and his freshmen class. It’s a top 3 BE team, beats Texas & ND on home court, RED in Dane and has E8 potential, maybe F4 if the matchups are favorable and with good health.
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I would think it is Amadou.
He's 6'8" and can shoot.
[/quote
Correction... All is 6'9".]
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Job is in for a whale of a season. You can book it!
Ofeensively: maybe
Defensively: lots to improve
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Shaka did one hell of a job last season and it was a magical run up to the tournament, but we shouldn’t pretend this team wasn’t flawed. Defensive rebounding was horrendous, and we lacked any rim protection. Realistically we probably should have lost to X at home and Butler at home down the stretch; we got somewhat lucky. Now we lose our best wing defender. And what if we have an injury next season, something we were remarkably blessed to avoid last season until the tournament.
Yes, guys will continue to develop, but I just think the upside of adding a rebounding big far outweighs the risks.
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Shaka did one hell of a job last season and it was a magical run up to the tournament, but we shouldn’t pretend this team wasn’t flawed. Defensive rebounding was horrendous, and we lacked any rim protection. Realistically we probably should have lost to X at home and Butler at home down the stretch; we got somewhat lucky. Now we lose our best wing defender. And what if we have an injury next season, something we were remarkably blessed to avoid last season until the tournament.
Yes, guys will continue to develop, but I just think the upside of adding a rebounding big far outweighs the risks.
Yep. All of our success was due to luck and our failures were because we were fundamentally flawed.
Great analysis.
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Ofeensively: maybe
Defensively: lots to improve
This is so good
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Shaka did one hell of a job last season and it was a magical run up to the tournament, but we shouldn’t pretend this team wasn’t flawed. Defensive rebounding was horrendous, and we lacked any rim protection. Realistically we probably should have lost to X at home and Butler at home down the stretch; we got somewhat lucky. Now we lose our best wing defender. And what if we have an injury next season, something we were remarkably blessed to avoid last season until the tournament.
Yes, guys will continue to develop, but I just think the upside of adding a rebounding big far outweighs the risks.
And we should have won in Providence. And Wisconsin got lucky (they couldn't miss in the first half!). And we were unlucky to get under seeded MSU in the tourney, and unlucky that Kolek suffered a serious thumb injury. See how easy it is to play this game?
If our incoming freshmen are anywhere near as good as they seem to be, they-along with our returning players- will provide depth to cover injuries. The one exception is Kolek. As we have seen, it is not easy to find a substitute for him. Maybe Shaka should bring in a transfer so that we have a top-level PG to step in, right?
If Omax does not return, I think Shaka will restructure the team to address some of the issues you brought up. That does not mean that they will be resolved entirely, but it is the overall performance of not just Marquette but any college bball team that matters. Even the bluebloods have flaws.
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Shaka did one hell of a job last season and it was a magical run up to the tournament, but we shouldn’t pretend this team wasn’t flawed. Defensive rebounding was horrendous, and we lacked any rim protection. Realistically we probably should have lost to X at home and Butler at home down the stretch; we got somewhat lucky. Now we lose our best wing defender. And what if we have an injury next season, something we were remarkably blessed to avoid last season until the tournament.
Yes, guys will continue to develop, but I just think the upside of adding a rebounding big far outweighs the risks.
Imagine posting something like this after the season we had last year
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Imagine posting something like this after the season we had last year
It’s partly true, though I’m not sure how EG2 conveyed it is clear.
Marquette had flaws last year. The positives far outweighed that most games. Every team has flaws, doesn’t mean they can’t win a lot of games. Also, luck is part of sports. Heck, UW-Madison shot well above their weight in beating Marquette. Bad luck for MUBB, good luck for them that afternoon.
17-3 in any league is hard to duplicate year-in, year-out. All that said, this team, with or without OMax may not have the same record as last year but be every bit as good
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Too many simpletons here. If omax leaves, the immediate need is a back up center freeing up gold to play in his more natural position on the perimeter.
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It’s partly true, though I’m not sure how EG2 conveyed it is clear.
Marquette had flaws last year. The positives far outweighed that most games. Every team has flaws, doesn’t mean they can’t win a lot of games. Also, luck is part of sports. Heck, UW-Madison shot well above their weight in beating Marquette. Bad luck for MUBB, good luck for them that afternoon.
17-3 in any league is hard to duplicate year-in, year-out. All that said, this team, with or without OMax may not have the same record as last year but be every bit as good.
I think it is his repeated assertion that Shaka needs to find a transfer to correct the rebounding and rim protection problems that EG2 focused on that triggered many of the responses. The last sentence of my post above dovetails with your comment that all teams have flaws. We will not have a perfect team. So what?
Agree mostly with the bolded. I think the team will be better due to experience and our very promising freshmen. That does not mean that we need to repeat the 17-3 record at all, and I do not think we will. At least one more L, maybe two, is likely.
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From a "maximize the potential of the 2023-2024 team" perspective, OMax leaving is almost certainly a negative. Count me among those worried about the general lack of size/length/rebounding on this team.
From a "long term team continuity / continued success" perspective, it may not be the worst. Chase, Ben, Jop, and the freshmen will almost certainly increase their minutes and they will develop into the kinds of players we will need when Kolek, Oso, Kam, and Stevie leave after '24 or '25. Plus, more minutes in '24 might make those guys more likely to stick around.
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UCONN was soft and had an unreliable 3 pt shooting team.
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I’ve noticed a few things in this thread
1- very little talk of Sean Jones 22 makes me think that scoop faithful consider him deep bench next man out fodder
2- not as many Tre Norman expectations as I would have imagined.
I’ll give my prediction.
If OMax returns- same starting 5
TyKo, Kam, Stevie, OMax, Oso.
First three off the bench Jop, Tre, SJ22
I think Tre gets more minutes that Stevie by years end, Stevie becomes 6th man lockdown versatile guard that can score some in spurts. Sean spells the 1/2, Tre spells the 2/3, Jop spells the 3/4 depending on matchups.
If Omax doesn’t continue to develop Jop passes him up in minutes due to his elite scoring ability- that’s one of the risks of OMax returning. If you can’t beat out Jop you can’t beat out NBA dudes tho, so come on back OMax.
Btw that first 8 above is an Elite8 at worst type squad barring a disaster.
And I haven’t even mentioned the 4th guy off the bench, Ben to spell Oso at the 5. Then there’s Zaide Lowery and Al Amadou. I’m most excited about Zaide from next years class, which might seem insane with what I said about Tre above, but it sort of reminds me of the DawsonG/JLew class where I knew that Lewis would become a Marquette favorite.
I think Zaide will have the longer, more fruitful MU career but it will take him a bit more time to transition.
I got down this far and just realized I missed Chase Ross.
Now it becomes clear to see why Shaka isn’t going nuts in the portal.
In the above scenario Ross slides in off the bench in the group with Jop, Ross, Tre, SJ22. Ross spells the 2/3 with Tre, but there aren’t a lot of minutes to be had there so now we are logjammin.
If OMax doesn’t return.
TyKo, Kam, Tre, Jop, Oso starting 5.
Stevie (spells 1-3), Chase (spells 2-4), SJ22 (spells 1/2), Ben (spells 4/5), Zaide (3/4) and Al with limited minutes.
I’m sure my Tre prediction will surprise most, but I think the hype might be real in the short term. Not sure how it ends up long term until we see him play regularly. I also think Stevie is an amazing kid, the best ball defender on the team, but destined to a super sub 6th man elite guard defender role until I see otherwise.
I think he finds a nice role in a championship caliber MU team, just like he found a nice roll in a BE championship MU team.
What stands out to me is how much “cleaner” the sans OMax prediction squad is- easier roles, easier to find guys minutes, better build up and experience for the future etc.
What also stands out is how much more elite the with OMax squad is.
That’s a championship squad, the one without him is a good squad that will need a lot to come together to become a championship squad.
When you push good players into a reserve role because upperclassmen that can’t lose their starting spot are running the show you get a lot of good results.
If Kolek stumbles a bit so what, there’s guys to step in and the team is so stacked that it’ll be ok.
Same with Omax, or Kam, but maybe still not Oso (let’s go Shaka with that portal Magic!)
If OMax leaves the margin for error becomes much smaller. The future develops quicker and that’s good, but in this day and age you don’t get runs at magic often.
Hope he comes back
Possibly could happen, but Tre and Stevie were similarly ranked coming out of high school and Stevie has two years of college experience. I think Tre has a hard time breaking into lineup. Everyone who played any minutes at three guard positions are coming back. Who is Tre going to take time from?
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We had the same starting lineup every single game last season. If we return everyone next year, the starting lineup is not changing.
Stevie is a menace on defense. We have enough scoring in the starting lineup. Having scoring coming off the bench is very valuable. Stevie is not losing his starting spot to a freshman.
And the same story for OMax. He wasn’t consistent offensively, but neither was Joplin. And OMax was a menace offensively while Joplin was not.
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UCONN was soft and had an unreliable 3 pt shooting team.
TAKE QUAKE
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Possibly could happen, but Tre and Stevie were similarly ranked coming out of high school and Stevie has two years of college experience. I think Tre has a hard time breaking into lineup. Everyone who played any minutes at three guard positions are coming back. Who is Tre going to take time from?
I gave the answer, but it probably got lost in the extremely long post. Of course, barring any injury, most of the minutes would come from Mitchell and some from Kam at the 2/3.
That said, I know it’s a pretty aggressive and unlikely take, but I can see it happening if Tre’s defense comes as advertised and he can find ways to become an effective scorer much like Kam did from the day he stepped foot on campus.
Reports came out quickly praising Mr Jones of his abilities very early in his Marquette career, and if Tre is to take on a role like this I would expect that early in his career as well.
I don’t think Tre would start either way, u agree that Stevie would (and should) continue to start. I just think Tre gets more minutes as the season progresses.
The following season there is a chance that BOTH TyKo and Kam might exit the program and Stevie, Sean, Chase, Tre, Zaide and newcomers would be the new backcourt.
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Possibly could happen, but Tre and Stevie were similarly ranked coming out of high school and Stevie has two years of college experience. I think Tre has a hard time breaking into lineup. Everyone who played any minutes at three guard positions are coming back. Who is Tre going to take time from?
I really like Tre and could see him carving out a role. Incredibly underrated recruit. But like Stevie said to Souley Boum, he ain't going nowhere.
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I really like Tre and could see him carving out a role. Incredibly underrated recruit. But like Stevie said to Souley Boum, he ain't going nowhere.
Bold prediction time:
Stevie is borderline BE first team in 2024
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Bold prediction time:
Stevie is borderline BE first team in 2024
so minimum 2nd team all BE?
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Bold prediction time:
Stevie is borderline BE first team in 2024
If by bold you mean bad
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Jay Bee’s acension to the top tier of most irritating posters on the scoop is one of the most impressive developments here this offseason.
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Jay Bee’s acension to the top tier of most irritating posters on the scoop is one of the most impressive developments here this offseason.
They have an impressively high variance in post quality
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Bold prediction time:
Stevie is borderline BE first team in 2024
Bold prediction time:
If you’re right, and a guy who is (depending on O-Max’s decision) our 4th or 5th best player is the 10th or 11th best player in the Big East next year - MU will be the no doubt about it #1 seed in the NCAA tournament.
More reasonable prediction:
You’re high.
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Yep. All of our success was due to luck and our failures were because we were fundamentally flawed.
Great analysis.
Your reading comprehension is absurdly poor. One can appreciate the fantastic job Shaka and the team did this past year without pretending there is no possible way the roster could be enhanced. It is possible to have some critical self-evaluation in the off-season.
Next year, I don’t want to have Oso be preoccupied battling Joel Soriano down low, and Clingan will abuse us again. If we had a guy even like Dwight Burke to pull off the bench and give us 10-20 minutes a game, I think it would help. There is no reason Shaka can’t find that type of player who is the right culture fit. There are 1000+ kids portaling.
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Bold prediction time:
If you’re right, and a guy who is (depending on O-Max’s decision) our 4th or 5th best player is the 10th or 11th best player in the Big East next year - MU will be the no doubt about it #1 seed in the NCAA tournament.
More reasonable prediction:
You’re high.
Be more bold 😂
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In general.
Tyler -> Sean
Stevie -> Tre and Zaide
Kam -> Chase
Omax -> Jop and Al
Oso -> Ben and Al
The ones on the left generally swapping in for the starters. If Omax goes, we are thin at the wing. Of course the combo of Tre, Zaide, Chase can all swap into the omax wing role if they have to, but we'd be going pretty small if that happens. Which is a bummer, but I don't see a lot of players mentioned with us that could easily slide into that wing spot.
Hopefully, Omax returns. I think he will.
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Which is a bummer, but I don't see a lot of players mentioned with us that could easily slide into that wing spot.
Hopefully, Omax returns. I think he will.
I also think he will, but this staff is good about not letting their inquiries get out to the public. Just because we don't show up on a list doesn't mean we aren't involved.
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I also think he will, but this staff is good about not letting their inquiries get out to the public. Just because we don't show up on a list doesn't mean we aren't involved.
You mean our savvy scoop social media interpreters can not accurately tell us exactly who Marquette is involved with or judge the fervor of which Marquette is pursuing portal possibilities?
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You mean our savvy scoop social media interpreters can not accurately tell us exactly who Marquette is involved with or judge the fervor of which Marquette is pursuing portal possibilities?
Shaka and staff are busy collecting silent verbals. 👀
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Omax gowne, hey?
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Deadline to declare is tonight. So if Oso, TK, or anyone else want to join O-Max this year, tonight is their last chance to do it.
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Deadline to declare is tonight. So if Oso, TK, or anyone else want to join O-Max this year, tonight is their last chance to do it.
Why did you have to tempt them? Sheesh!
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Why did you have to tempt them? Sheesh!
Isn't this place more fun when everyone is panicked? All this hanging banners and retaining talent makes for a boring summer.
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Your reading comprehension is absurdly poor. One can appreciate the fantastic job Shaka and the team did this past year without pretending there is no possible way the roster could be enhanced. It is possible to have some critical self-evaluation in the off-season.
Next year, I don’t want to have Oso be preoccupied battling Joel Soriano down low, and Clingan will abuse us again. If we had a guy even like Dwight Burke to pull off the bench and give us 10-20 minutes a game, I think it would help. There is no reason Shaka can’t find that type of player who is the right culture fit. There are 1000+ kids portaling.
I don't disagree with you, but don't think it is in anyway as easy as you suggest.
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After 17-3 plus the BET, I can’t believe anyone is questioning Shaka’s roster construction.
You’re either getting better or you’re getting worse.
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You’re either getting better or you’re getting worse.
Last year when we lost Lewis, Morsell and Kur and replaced all of them with Wrightsil and 3 freshmen everybody assumed we were getting worse……..oops.
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Omax gowne, hey?
I wish you were gowne, hey!!!!
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Eye'm gonna stay just ta piss ewe off, hey?
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Eye'm gonna stay just ta piss ewe off, hey?
That's fine, I've put up with you for this long. Just try to be positive once in awhile.
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Truthfully, in this case, I honestly think he leaves. There are several paths to the Association and as long as one team feels you have potential, they will throw money at you and that's all it takes, hey?
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Truthfully, in this case, I honestly think he leaves. There are several paths to the Association and as long as one team feels you have potential, they will throw money at you and that's all it takes, hey?
I think that would shock the staff.
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Truthfully, in this case, I honestly think he leaves. There are several paths to the Association and as long as one team feels you have potential, they will throw money at you and that's all it takes, hey?
Could you try and post more coherent/measured takes like this? Would really be a nice change.
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Barring an announcement in the next 78 minutes, does that mean Oso is for sure coming back?
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Barring an announcement in the next 78 minutes, does that mean Oso is for sure coming back?
They don't have to make an announcement. An official list should come out tomorrow
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They don't have to make an announcement. An official list should come out tomorrow
(https://media.tenor.com/jMhug3ckRgwAAAAM/nervous-nail-biting.gif)
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I was told there would be a list
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Emoni Bates declared before the deadline.
A precautionary tale about assuming greatness for anointed HS stars, parental interference, and several other ills associated with the less glamorous side of competitive hoops.
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Emoni Bates declared before the deadline.
A precautionary tale about assuming greatness for anointed HS stars, parental interference, and several other ills associated with the less glamorous side of competitive hoops.
I have a wild take, but the team that drafts him in the 50's of the NBA draft will actually get a steal. It is basically the same thing as drafting Cam Reddish, but they don't have to waste the 10th overall pick. You just draft someone because they were the "best" one summer in high school.
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I was told there would be a list
Last year, the NBA released it the Tuesday after the deadline. We'll probably see it later today or tomorrow.
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I was told there would be a list
List, do you mean the 2023 roster?
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List, do you mean the 2023 roster?
The official list of early entrants to the NBA draft.
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The deadline to put your name is was yesterday. But you can still withdraw and return to NCAA play until May 31st, right?
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The deadline to put your name is was yesterday. But you can still withdraw and return to NCAA play until May 31st, right?
Yes, that's the NCAA deadline. (The NBA one is a couple of weeks later.)
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If OMax leaves Marquette should find some NIL donors for this guy.
https://twitter.com/CourtsideFilms/status/1645422219898630144?t=sZPj5KFus0X9d0O-eCCgKA&s=19
Some speculation that Grant Nelson will indeed hit the portal soon.
I'd jump out of my seat if Marquette actually contacted him.
He's going to be off to the NBA next year so it'd be a 1 year thing for whoever gets him.
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Some speculation that Grant Nelson will indeed hit the portal soon.
I'd jump out of my seat if Marquette actually contacted him.
He's going to be off to the NBA next year so it'd be a 1 year thing for whoever gets him.
I think the thought is instead of handing this kid a bag of cash...you recruit a Ben Gold type player to MU...develop him for 3 years...and hope he can do similar things. Then you use the relationship and growth, along with what NIL $ we have, to keep him from transferring. I'm not a "never use the portal" guy...but I love how Shaka is handling it...especially given what MU is and isn't.
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I think the thought is instead of handing this kid a bag of cash...you recruit a Ben Gold type player to MU...develop him for 3 years...and hope he can do similar things. Then you use the relationship and growth, along with what NIL $ we have, to keep him from transferring. I'm not a "never use the portal" guy...but I love how Shaka is handling it...especially given what MU is and isn't.
Exactly, throwing big bags of $$ at 1 year players is the direct opposite of what Saka preaches publicly.
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I think the thought is instead of handing this kid a bag of cash...you recruit a Ben Gold type player to MU...develop him for 3 years...and hope he can do similar things. Then you use the relationship and growth, along with what NIL $ we have, to keep him from transferring. I'm not a "never use the portal" guy...but I love how Shaka is handling it...especially given what MU is and isn't.
This is definitely Shaka's MO and you're probably right that throwing cash at a 1 year guy isn't something MU will really do much of, if at all.
HOWEVER, next year is a very unique opportunity in that if OMax is gone, we are 1 big guy away from literally being the best team in the country. To me, it might be worth plugging that hole with a 1 year player because of this unique opportunity.
But if not, I still feel good about Gold/Jop stepping up.
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This is definitely Shaka's MO and you're probably right that throwing cash at a 1 year guy isn't something MU will really do much of, if at all.
HOWEVER, next year is a very unique opportunity in that if OMax is gone, we are 1 big guy away from literally being the best team in the country. To me, it might be worth plugging that hole with a 1 year player because of this unique opportunity.
But if not, I still feel good about Gold/Jop stepping up.
+1
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I have said it multiple times, if Shaka thinks this legit top 5 team, he needs to find a fit to replace Omax, if needed. It would be a wasted opportunity not to fill that spot and provide more firepower to the team.
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I have said it multiple times, if Shaka thinks this legit top 5 team, he needs to find a fit to replace Omax, if needed. It would be a wasted opportunity not to fill that spot and provide more firepower to the team.
Agree - all of this culture talk is great, but when the rubber meets the road, the transfer portal needs to be utilized.
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Agree - all of this culture talk is great, but when the rubber meets the road, the transfer portal needs to be utilized.
It's mostly about his defense if he doesn't return. I would be looking for a 6'6-6'9 switchable who can rebound and defend.
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Muggsy
I agree. Cannot miss out on a golden opportunity, if it is a golden opportunity. We will see how Shaka handles things. If he grabs a portal guy, I am all in for a deep run next season. If not, I trust Shaka building for the long haul.
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Goose, it would be a shame not to try and get a wing who can play D and rebound as Joplin or Gold are not great defensive players. They can go small, but to win it all you need another big, unless Amadeu is better then what we think, trust Shaka.
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Muggsy
I agree. Cannot miss out on a golden opportunity, if it is a golden opportunity. We will see how Shaka handles things. If he grabs a portal guy, I am all in for a deep run next season. If not, I trust Shaka building for the long haul.
Goose - without Omax, I am not sure it reverts to “building for the long haul”
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regardless if we are a "top 5' or not, we do have a pretty solid squad with a hc who can put the pieces together. with that being sad, you would think shaka has some options we wouldn't necessarily have had in the past knocking on the door.
i'm a 6' 6'-6' 9' banger who can hit the midrange j, i've got MU on the top of my list
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regardless if we are a "top 5' or not, we do have a pretty solid squad with a hc who can put the pieces together. with that being sad, you would think shaka has some options we wouldn't necessarily have had in the past knocking on the door.
i'm a 6' 6'-6' 9' banger who can hit the midrange j dunk and hit threes, i've got MU on the top of my list
FIFY
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Agree - all of this culture talk is great, but when the rubber meets the road, the transfer portal needs to be utilized.
All of this culture talk is 100% important...and it's why MU won the BEAST x2 last year. Shaka has built this program to heights no one thought he would this quickly...i struggle with suggesting he change his ways and compromise his integrity and culture with his team for a golden opportunity that most likely will not result in a FF run. I'll take consistently solid teams that will always put MU in a position to make a run.
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regardless if we are a "top 5' or not, we do have a pretty solid squad with a hc who can put the pieces together. with that being sad, you would think shaka has some options we wouldn't necessarily have had in the past knocking on the door.
i'm a 6' 6'-6' 9' banger who can hit the midrange j, i've got MU on the top of my list
Do you watch them play? Marquette never takes midrange jumpers.
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I think the thought is instead of handing this kid a bag of cash...you recruit a Ben Gold type player to MU...develop him for 3 years...and hope he can do similar things. Then you use the relationship and growth, along with what NIL $ we have, to keep him from transferring. I'm not a "never use the portal" guy...but I love how Shaka is handling it...especially given what MU is and isn't.
The problem with this thinking is that it's inconsistent with our current scholarship situation. Everyone ignores that Oso and Kolek are eligible for their COVID year in 24-25.
We are one under for 23-24--and possibly two under if OMax leaves.
With the addition of Parham and Owens, we are one over for 24-25 if everyone returns. Two over if OMax returns.
One can assume that someone is going to leave and the problem will take care of itself. Fair enough.
But what if that doesn't happen? What if all our younger players want to come back because we have a great team and outstanding culture? What if Kolek and Oso don't quite get over the NBA hump and believe a 5th year at MU is their best option (especially given the focus of our NIL efforts is on retention).
Given we already have a situation where someone HAS to leave early, do we exacerbate it by taking another player who will still be around in 24-25?
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The problem with this thinking is that it's inconsistent with our current scholarship situation. Everyone ignores that Oso and Kolek are eligible for their COVID year in 24-25.
We are one under for 23-24--and possibly two under if OMax leaves.
With the addition of Parham and Owens, we are one over for 24-25 if everyone returns. Two over if OMax returns.
One can assume that someone is going to leave and the problem will take care of itself. Fair enough.
But what if that doesn't happen? What if all our younger players want to come back because we have a great team and outstanding culture? What if Kolek and Oso don't quite get over the NBA hump and believe a 5th year at MU is their best option (especially given the focus of our NIL efforts is on retention).
Given we already have a situation where someone HAS to leave early, do we exacerbate it by taking another player who will still be around in 24-25?
If you are Shaka, you do not assume Kolek and Oso return for 2024-25. You keep recruiting; you keep building a roster you believe can compete for a national title.
And if one or both happen to return, you deal with it when it happens. That's exactly what Shaka did when he went over 13 this year -- despite the concern of several Scoopers.
There will always be a couple/few players you can strongly suggest would benefit from entering the transfer portal and moving down a level. I don't think it makes Shaka a bad guy that he probably suggested just that to Itejere and Ellis.
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There will always be a couple/few players you can strongly suggest would benefit from entering the transfer portal and moving down a level.
Just ask Coach Deion. ;)
I don't think it makes Shaka a bad guy that he probably suggested just that to Itejere and Ellis.
Absolutely not. Actually, it's the best thing he could do for them. This was exactly my point when people started speculating that if OMax leaves Itejere or Ellis might decide to come back. It's quite possible -- likely even -- that their decision to enter the portal followed a frank conversation with Shaka during which he told them that he didn't see them cracking the lineup in the foreseeable future. There's only so much playing time to go around. If those guys weren't playing this season (I'm aware Ellis was injured) and Shaka honestly believed that they were going to buried below next year's freshmen on the depth chart, the kindest thing he can do for them is to let them know so they can find a better opportunity for themselves. I suspect Shaka tries to be very honest with his players and sometimes that means telling them that they're never going to see the court and might want to enter the portal.
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All of this culture talk is 100% important...and it's why MU won the BEAST x2 last year. Shaka has built this program to heights no one thought he would this quickly...i struggle with suggesting he change his ways and compromise his integrity and culture with his team for a golden opportunity that most likely will not result in a FF run. I'll take consistently solid teams that will always put MU in a position to make a run.
But it’s also not a reason to look past a transfer that will keep the quality of the team at a high level for next year, because we have a few freshman coming in.
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The problem with this thinking is that it's inconsistent with our current scholarship situation. Everyone ignores that Oso and Kolek are eligible for their COVID year in 24-25.
We are one under for 23-24--and possibly two under if OMax leaves.
With the addition of Parham and Owens, we are one over for 24-25 if everyone returns. Two over if OMax returns.
One can assume that someone is going to leave and the problem will take care of itself. Fair enough.
But what if that doesn't happen? What if all our younger players want to come back because we have a great team and outstanding culture? What if Kolek and Oso don't quite get over the NBA hump and believe a 5th year at MU is their best option (especially given the focus of our NIL efforts is on retention).
Given we already have a situation where someone HAS to leave early, do we exacerbate it by taking another player who will still be around in 24-25?
A month ago we were 1 over for 23-24. Today we're 2 under for 23-24. The staff knows what they're doing, a lot more than you do.
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A month ago we were 1 over for 23-24. Today we're 2 under for 23-24.
And to go from 1 over to 2 under required three players to leave.
My point is that we currently have 14 committed for 24-25. We are projected to be 1 over right now. My comment wasn't directed at the staff--it was directed at the poster who thought we should bring in a multi-year transfer with this year's open scholarship.
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And to go from 1 over to 2 under required three players to leave.
My point is that we currently have 14 committed for 24-25. We are projected to be 1 over right now. My comment wasn't directed at the staff--it was directed at the poster who thought we should bring in a multi-year transfer with this year's open scholarship.
Despite the fact that we "currently have 14 committed for 24-25," the coaching staff is still very much pursuing class of 2024 recruits. I think it's fairly reasonable to assume we still have (at least) 1 scholarship available for the 24-25 season.
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The problem with this thinking is that it's inconsistent with our current scholarship situation. Everyone ignores that Oso and Kolek are eligible for their COVID year in 24-25.
We are one under for 23-24--and possibly two under if OMax leaves.
With the addition of Parham and Owens, we are one over for 24-25 if everyone returns. Two over if OMax returns.
One can assume that someone is going to leave and the problem will take care of itself. Fair enough.
But what if that doesn't happen? What if all our younger players want to come back because we have a great team and outstanding culture? What if Kolek and Oso don't quite get over the NBA hump and believe a 5th year at MU is their best option (especially given the focus of our NIL efforts is on retention).
Given we already have a situation where someone HAS to leave early, do we exacerbate it by taking another player who will still be around in 24-25?
IF oso and kolek come back for 24-25 (huge IF) and everyone else stays ( another huge if)
I'm sure that oso and kolek will be able to work out an NIL deal with some local Milwaukee company to pay for the tuitions as they give their scholarships to freshman aka like McDermott .
Welcome to the future.
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Oso and Kolek aren’t becoming walk ons and paying tuition.
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Oso and Kolek aren’t becoming walk ons and paying tuition.
But what if Shaka adopted them? MU employees’ kids attend for free, right?
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I’ve seen this discussed as a “loophole” in regards to NIL and scholarship numbers but it seems like a bunch of out of touch people yelling at the clouds.
I think it’s totally reasonable that at some point, an athlete may use their NIL money to pay tuition - although I don’t see it happening often and it will take special circumstances.
What I think is completely absurd about this hypothetical scenario is that theoretically two highly recruited players will be totally happy playing in a walk on role for the team instead of transferring.
Not happening.
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If Omax doesn’t return, he will be replaced by Jop or a combination of players currently on the roster.
He will not be replaced by a banger in the portal……….someone who shoots mid range jumpers………..someone we are going to give a bag of $…….or an aircraft carrier.
Its as if some of you haven’t seen Shaka coach or listened yo him speak.
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If Omax doesn’t return, he will be replaced by Jop or a combination of players currently on the roster.
He will not be replaced by a banger in the portal……….someone who shoots mid range jumpers………..someone we are going to give a bag of $…….or an aircraft carrier.
Its as if some of you haven’t seen Shaka coach or listened yo him speak.
Last offseason, he bagged a transfer who hit on 3 of those 4, so I am not so sure. In fact, that portalee just might return. 😉
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So next up for Omax is the potential of an NBA Combine invite . If Omax doesn't get that he can get potentially grt a G League combine invite and a fee of those play their way into NBA combine i think the invites are sent out in the next week .
There are 60 spots in NBA Draft plus teo way contracts . Last year 13 players were signed to two ways . So essentially Omax needs to be seen as top 75ish player. Of course there are the rare cases like Jamal who got an Exhibit 10 contract that got him into thr Heat camp and then he earned his way into a two way.
My guess is Omax will be positively received by the NBA
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/nba-two-way-contracts-explained-draft-player-signings-2022/qiarxtgdcfs4o8ljkm4xi1ne
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Last offseason, he bagged a transfer who hit on 3 of those 4, so I am not so sure. In fact, that portalee just might return. 😉
Zach returning with a OMax departure would not surprise me.
Even though he is “in the portal”, he feels like he hasnt left.
He’s not getting a bag of $. He isn't replacing Jop. He’s not a banger/aircraft carrier. He wont be asked to shoot midrange jumpers….and if he does he will sit.
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Zach returning with a OMax departure would not surprise me.
Even though he is “in the portal”, he feels like he hasnt left.
He’s not getting a bag of $. He isn't replacing Jop. He’s not a banger/aircraft carrier. He wont be asked to shoot midrange jumpers….and if he does he will sit.
if Zach has health, and can be the player Shaka thought he’d be when he brought him in, maybe not a bad thing. Certainly appeared to be well-liked by the team. Doesn’t wear maybelline as far as I can tell. Come on back!
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I’ve seen this discussed as a “loophole” in regards to NIL and scholarship numbers but it seems like a bunch of out of touch people yelling at the clouds.
I think it’s totally reasonable that at some point, an athlete may use their NIL money to pay tuition - although I don’t see it happening often and it will take special circumstances.
What I think is completely absurd about this hypothetical scenario is that theoretically two highly recruited players will be totally happy playing in a walk on role for the team instead of transferring.
Not happening.
Having an NIL deal to pay tuition would appear to be prohibited by the various enabling laws that all prohibit NIL from being contingent on attending a specific school.
There are ways the collectives can (and do) skirt this, but making a direct tuition payment to a specific school on a player's behalf would clearly make the payment contingent on the player attending that specific school.
There is also the issue of the devaluation of NIL by the cost of tuition. If he is worth 50K to one program to pay his tuition, he's probably worth that elsewhere as well. So why would he go to a program where his NIL earnings are erased by having to pay tuition? He would net zero after paying his tuition at one school, but 50K at a program where he's given a scholarship.
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So …
Is there really a chance Wrightsil stays at MU ? ( if OMAX is gone )
Anyone have any insight?
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Ya gotta bedder chance dat Gail sez "yes," hey?
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Having an NIL deal to pay tuition would appear to be prohibited by the various enabling laws that all prohibit NIL from being contingent on attending a specific school.
There are ways the collectives can (and do) skirt this, but making a direct tuition payment to a specific school on a player's behalf would clearly make the payment contingent on the player attending that specific school.
There is also the issue of the devaluation of NIL by the cost of tuition. If he is worth 50K to one program to pay his tuition, he's probably worth that elsewhere as well. So why would he go to a program where his NIL earnings are erased by having to pay tuition? He would net zero after paying his tuition at one school, but 50K at a program where he's given a scholarship.
so a walk-on is getting NIL? or playing at a D2/3? a $50k NIL athlete typically has a scholly to a D1 program, no? if he/she/them is a walk-on or lower level D and is worth NIL money, they ain't getting $50k. if they are, they should be D1 and/or not a walk-on unless the D2/3 really really wants to be there and the school has an ambitious alum or something. what am i missing? yes, i know jj watt began his time at UW as a walkon to show em his goods until a scholly opened up and/or he proved his worth
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So …
Is there really a chance Wrightsil stays at MU ? ( if OMAX is gone )
Anyone have any insight?
Better question is: would we want him to stay?
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so a walk-on is getting NIL? or playing at a D2/3? a $50k NIL athlete typically has a scholly to a D1 program, no? if he/she/them is a walk-on or lower level D and is worth NIL money, they ain't getting $50k. if they are, they should be D1 and/or not a walk-on unless the D2/3 really really wants to be there and the school has an ambitious alum or something. what am i missing? yes, i know jj watt began his time at UW as a walkon to show em his goods until a scholly opened up and/or he proved his worth
The comment wasn't referring to walkons. It was about players otherwise good enough to earn a scholarship being asked to pay their own way out of their NIL payments, essentially allowing NIL to be used as a tool to skirt scholarship limits.
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The comment wasn't referring to walkons. It was about players otherwise good enough to earn a scholarship being asked to pay their own way out of their NIL payments, essentially allowing NIL to be used as a tool to skirt scholarship limits.
ok, thanks, didn't know some were being asked to pay for this reason. if i'm scholarship worthy, i'm going where the scholarships are. if i'm worthy of NIL money and a scholly, i'm going for all of it. the NIL money is investment money, new car to impress the opposite sex money or beer and pizza money or...
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Better question is: would we want him to stay?
Not a ton of minutes available, friendly with the team, well liked. I don't see why not.
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Not a ton of minutes available, friendly with the team, well liked. I don't see why not.
If it’s a choice between banking the scholarship or bringing Wrightsil back, I absolutely hope he’s back. I think he contributed a lot to the team last year, even without playing.
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NBA Draft Prospect Profile on Omax
https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-marquettes-olivier-maxence-prosper
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The G-League Combine announced their invites. O-Max wasn't on it which I think means he is invited to the NBA combine. Awesome for O-Max, but news that moves the forecast towards him staying in the draft.
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The G-League Combine announced their invites. O-Max wasn't on it which I think means he is invited to the NBA combine. Awesome for O-Max, but news that moves the forecast towards him staying in the draft.
What a wonderful opportunity for him, that's great!
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The G-League Combine announced their invites. O-Max wasn't on it which I think means he is invited to the NBA combine. Awesome for O-Max, but news that moves the forecast towards him staying in the draft.
NBA Combine invitees are starting to trickle out:
https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/lists/2023-nba-draft-combine-invitation-tracker/ (https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/lists/2023-nba-draft-combine-invitation-tracker/)
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The G-League Combine announced their invites. O-Max wasn't on it which I think means he is invited to the NBA combine. Awesome for O-Max, but news that moves the forecast towards him staying in the draft.
Full List of G League Combine
https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/1654515468818849794/photo/1
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Full List of G League Combine
https://twitter.com/AdamZagoria/status/1654515468818849794/photo/1
Some pretty good players in there, including Tyger Campbell, Matthew Mayer, Tristan Newton, Markquis Nowell, and, yes, Sam's little bro.
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Omax in this gentlemans top 50 Big Board
https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2023/05/05/top-50-prospects-big-board-2023-nba-draft
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Omax in this gentlemans top 50 Big Board
https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2023/05/05/top-50-prospects-big-board-2023-nba-draft
The sween dog knows ball
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OMax was indeed invited to the NBA combine.
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OMax was indeed invited to the NBA combine.
I'm sure I missed it somewhere in this thread...when does he have to make a choice by?
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I'm sure I missed it somewhere in this thread...when does he have to make a choice by?
May 31, 2023
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He gowne.
The days of “if you are not expecting to be picked in the first round, then go back to school” are over.
Long. Athletic. Great and willing defender.
I fully expect a few teams to attempt and get OMax on the cheap(late 2nd round, FA signing, two way, etc.)
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OMax was indeed invited to the NBA combine.
Haven’t seen this confirmed anywhere. Where did you see this? Or wishful thinking?
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He gowne.
The days of “if you are not expecting to be picked in the first round, then go back to school” are over.
Long. Athletic. Great and willing defender.
I fully expect a few teams to attempt and get OMax on the cheap(late 2nd round, FA signing, two way, etc.)
Why is this the case? With NIL aren’t there more incentives for fringe draft picks to stay in school?
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Haven’t seen this confirmed anywhere. Where did you see this? Or wishful thinking?
If he wasn't on the invite list for the G-League combine, he is going to be on the list for the draft combine. But IMO last year there were 70+ invitees, so I am not sure that says much.
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Haven’t seen this confirmed anywhere. Where did you see this? Or wishful thinking?
https://twitter.com/BenSteeleMJS/status/1655986622293331968
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A little more:
https://www.anonymouseagle.com/2023/5/9/23717182/marquette-golden-eagles-mens-basketball-olivier-maxence-prosper-nba-draft-combine-invitation
Selfishly, I hope he stays, but my vibe is he's going.
I also think our team will be really good next season either way.
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He gowne.
The days of “if you are not expecting to be picked in the first round, then go back to school” are over.
Long. Athletic. Great and willing defender.
I fully expect a few teams to attempt and get OMax on the cheap(late 2nd round, FA signing, two way, etc.)
I was curious about your assertion so I looked at the numbers from last year's NBA Combine.
65 college early entrants were invited to the NBA Combine last season. Of those 65:
25 (38.5%) went in the first round
15 (23.1%) went in the second round (most near the beginning)
18 (27.7%) went undrafted (5 of them only had their COVID year left so may have just not wanted to do school anymore)
7 (10.8%) returned to college
It's only one year of data but the odds definitely favor an NBA draft combine invitee to not return to college. However it is still possible. If OMax is getting high second round buzz or better, he likely goes. If he's not, the odds become a lot better though still not favored. We will see what happens.
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He gowne.
The days of “if you are not expecting to be picked in the first round, then go back to school” are over.
Long. Athletic. Great and willing defender.
I fully expect a few teams to attempt and get OMax on the cheap(late 2nd round, FA signing, two way, etc.)
Try knot ta bee such a debbie downer, aina?
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I was curious about your assertion so I looked at the numbers from last year's NBA Combine.
65 college early entrants were invited to the NBA Combine last season. Of those 65:
25 (38.5%) went in the first round
15 (23.1%) went in the second round (most near the beginning)
18 (27.7%) went undrafted (5 of them only had their COVID year left so may have just not wanted to do school anymore)
7 (10.8%) returned to college
It's only one year of data but the odds definitely favor an NBA draft combine invitee to not return to college. However it is still possible. If OMax is getting high second round buzz or better, he likely goes. If he's not, the odds become a lot better though still not favored. We will see what happens.
Just one time I’d like one of these guys to come back for another year. Literally just once.
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If OMax goes does anyone think Wrightsil comes back?
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Nah, hey?
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If OMax goes does anyone think Wrightsil comes back?
Every day that goes by without Wrightsil finding a landing spot elsewhere makes the possibility more likely.
Conversely, Ellis & Itegere found landing spots a few weeks ago.
Zach entered the portal 3/28, with nothing announced since - not even a rumor.
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Why is this the case? With NIL aren’t there more incentives for fringe draft picks to stay in school?
Because its a lifelong dream to play in the NBA.
Yes, definitely more $ to sty than ever before……but fringe players want to play in the league.
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I was curious about your assertion so I looked at the numbers from last year's NBA Combine.
65 college early entrants were invited to the NBA Combine last season. Of those 65:
25 (38.5%) went in the first round
15 (23.1%) went in the second round (most near the beginning)
18 (27.7%) went undrafted (5 of them only had their COVID year left so may have just not wanted to do school anymore)
7 (10.8%) returned to college
It's only one year of data but the odds definitely favor an NBA draft combine invitee to not return to college. However it is still possible. If OMax is getting high second round buzz or better, he likely goes. If he's not, the odds become a lot better though still not favored. We will see what happens.
I believe these team’s handlers may be telling mid to late 2nd rounder prospects that they are in fact high second rounders…..only not to be chosen. Then these same teams get a player they like without using a 2nd round pick…..then sign them to a FA deal or two way deal. Team gets a mid 2nd rounder with using their mid 2nd round pick.
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I believe these team’s handlers may be telling mid to late 2nd rounder prospects that they are in fact high second rounders…..only not to be chosen. Then these same teams get a player they like without using a 2nd round pick…..then sign them to a FA deal or two way deal. Team gets a mid 2nd rounder with using their mid 2nd round pick.
Teams chronically doing that are going to get a bad reputation pretty quick.
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You would hope.
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Ben Steele with an O-max update:
Marquette's Olivier-Maxence Prosper is ’all-in’ on preparing for NBA draft, but waiting on decision (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/05/09/marquettes-olivier-maxence-prosper-preparing-for-nba-draft/70198682007/)
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I believe these team’s handlers may be telling mid to late 2nd rounder prospects that they are in fact high second rounders…..only not to be chosen. Then these same teams get a player they like without using a 2nd round pick…..then sign them to a FA deal or two way deal. Team gets a mid 2nd rounder with using their mid 2nd round pick.
2nd round picks are a dime a dozen. Lots would rather be undrafted and be able to sign with any team they like. As far as contract requirements, there are none between a 2nd rounder and a FA.
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Ben Steele with an O-max update:
Marquette's Olivier-Maxence Prosper is ’all-in’ on preparing for NBA draft, but waiting on decision (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/05/09/marquettes-olivier-maxence-prosper-preparing-for-nba-draft/70198682007/)
Steele’s got the goods as usual. OMax’s singular, “all-in” focus on the draft process jibes with his original statement. Seems like he genuinely hasn’t come to a decision and will wait for all the information he has coming to him before 5/31.
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I believe these team’s handlers may be telling mid to late 2nd rounder prospects that they are in fact high second rounders…..only not to be chosen. Then these same teams get a player they like without using a 2nd round pick…..then sign them to a FA deal or two way deal. Team gets a mid 2nd rounder with using their mid 2nd round pick.
Do you have any evidence to support that belief?
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I felt Vander and Justin had likely played as well as they could at MU and didn't fault them for leaving. I think O-Max has better ball ahead of him at MU...improve a bit from 3 and get a little better going to the rim and he could go 1st round. That said...he seems like a smart kid that is likely listening to the right people.
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As far as contract requirements, there are none between a 2nd rounder and a FA.
New cap exception for second rounders may influence differences here
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New cap exception for second rounders may influence differences here
It may allow for longer contracts for 2nd round picks, but we will have to see how/if it changes things. I think it may mean that some 2nd rounders get a little bigger contracts (maybe for 3 or 4 years) and could possibly make the 2nd round picks a bit more valuable.
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I felt Vander and Justin had likely played as well as they could at MU and didn't fault them for leaving. I think O-Max has better ball ahead of him at MU...improve a bit from 3 and get a little better going to the rim and he could go 1st round. That said...he seems like a smart kid that is likely listening to the right people.
He can improve in the NBA and G league too.
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He can improve in the NBA and G league too.
Yep.
And probably moreso, with no limits on practice time, no pesky classes and homework, etc.
Jimmy Butler is Example #1 of how players continue to develop in the NBA.
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2nd round picks are a dime a dozen. Lots would rather be undrafted and be able to sign with any team they like. As far as contract requirements, there are none between a 2nd rounder and a FA.
Curious on how past second rounders fared vs undrafted Free Agents in terms of a) getting guaranteed money and b)length of time staying in the league
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Do you have any evidence to support that belief?
Yes….30 minutes after this year’s draft……listen to the interviews of those underclassman who were not drafted describe how they were told by their agent/team that they would go mid 2nd round.
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Yes….30 minutes after this year’s draft……listen to the interviews of those underclassman who were not drafted describe how they were told by their agent/team that they would go mid 2nd round.
Then again, that could just as easily be chalked up to young men hearing what they want to hear.
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Maybe….When team A says if your still available we are taking you……Team A’s pick? Not you……phone rings 15 minutes later……we really love you and want you to be a part of our future…..
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Every day that goes by without Wrightsil finding a landing spot elsewhere makes the possibility more likely.
Conversely, Ellis & Itegere found landing spots a few weeks ago.
Zach entered the portal 3/28, with nothing announced since - not even a rumor.
Does that maybe speak volumes how coaches feel about him? Of course it does.
Can we stop wishing an NAIA player returns? That is such loser thinking for a program who swept the Big East and earned a two seed. We should be able to do better than Wrightsil without trying.
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I felt Vander and Justin had likely played as well as they could at MU and didn't fault them for leaving. I think O-Max has better ball ahead of him at MU...improve a bit from 3 and get a little better going to the rim and he could go 1st round. That said...he seems like a smart kid that is likely listening to the right people.
Vander - yes.
Justin - no effing way.
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He can improve in the NBA and G league too.
It's such a weird disconnect when people talk about improving in college, like the g league isn't a thing.
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Vander - yes.
Justin - no effing way.
I didn't think Justin was going to shoot the ball at a higher level, and he wasn't going to see the volume of shots moving forward. Shaka has said as much in terms of voume and the ball sticking in his hands.
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He can improve in the NBA and G league too.
Absolutely, but if that's the best path for growth there should be a lot more kids leaving for the G-League. His growth at MU has been solid...I'd be careful about interrupting that.
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Does that maybe speak volumes how coaches feel about him? Of course it does.
Can we stop wishing an NAIA player returns? That is such loser thinking for a program who swept the Big East and earned a two seed. We should be able to do better than Wrightsil without trying.
Unless, of course, Shaka and his staff believe that NAIA player made a meaningful contribution to the team’s Big East championship season. If they think that’s the case and they want him back, then I’d be happy to have him back. It’s possible they think he can contribute more to this team’s success than anyone else in the portal.
It’s also possible that they’ll sign someone else from the portal today.
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Does that maybe speak volumes how coaches feel about him? Of course it does.
Can we stop wishing an NAIA player returns? That is such loser thinking for a program who swept the Big East and earned a two seed. We should be able to do better than Wrightsil without trying.
I’m not wishing Wrightsil back unless that’s what Shaka wants.
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Absolutely, but if that's the best path for growth there should be a lot more kids leaving for the G-League. His growth at MU has been solid...I'd be careful about interrupting that.
The only people who would go to the G-League are those who are fringe NBA guys...like OMax. Otherwise there just isn't enough room on those rosters.
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The only people who would go to the G-League are those who are fringe NBA guys...like OMax. Otherwise there just isn't enough room on those rosters.
Except if your father is part owner of the NBA team.
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Or your brother is a mega star, aina?
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Does that maybe speak volumes how coaches feel about him? Of course it does.
Can we stop wishing an NAIA player returns? That is such loser thinking for a program who swept the Big East and earned a two seed. We should be able to do better than Wrightsil without trying.
Shaka was excited about Wrightsil last summer. If he’s healthy and returns to form, it would stand to reason he’d be be welcomed back.
Didn’t Jae Crowder go to 2 Community colleges before coming to MU? Let’s not pretend to know more about Zach’s game based on where he played 2 years ago, than Shaka knows about him.
If Shaka wants him, so do I. We shall see.
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It's such a weird disconnect when people talk about improving in college, like the g league isn't a thing.
Well, if O-Max improves enough next season to be first round draft pick quality, it would be better for him if he did it at Marquette and got drafted in the first round rather than doing it in the G-League. That is an enormous "if" however, and not tone hat a player is likely to bank on, as it would probably represent a small percentage of cases.
The only reasons for O-Max to come back is if doesn't think he will get drafted or be offered a 2 way and is told he has a long way to go.
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Omax is 64 on the ESPN Big Board
https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable/_/position/ovr/page/3
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Omax is 64 on the ESPN Big Board
https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable/_/position/ovr/page/3
Do you know where JLew was on the ESPN big board?
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Do you know where JLew was on the ESPN big board?
I think he was in the mid 40s right before the draft day.
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Way ahead of Sonogo and Kaluma
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OMax's trajectory seems to be positive towards getting drafted. I think he gets picked up in the second round.
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OMax's trajectory seems to be positive towards getting drafted. I think he gets picked up in the second round.
You don't say...
Omax is committed to staying in the draft.
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Big standing vert of 35.0”
Crap
Lane agility, vert leap.. doing well in all, of course
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Big standing vert of 35.0”
Crap
Lane agility, vert leap.. doing well in all, of course
What "manor" of post is this?
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I would hazard a guess this pertains to Omax at the combine. Confirming that OMax has NBA athleticism.
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https://twitter.com/kyletheboone/status/1658184763742511105?t=FYWJm6XowVuE0Btg-iXdWw&s=19
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"Olivier Maxence-Prosper has been the biggest standout player for me so far very early into day 1 of the Combine
Hasn't made a single glaring mistake in any drill or 3 on 3"
https://twitter.com/MavsDraft/status/1658205464184627213?t=VZjQgYZfxbnaQPYf5dSo9A&s=19
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The more I think about it, the more I wonder why people are so much higher on Andre Jackson over O-Max. O-Max is just as athletic, switchable defender, and a much better offensive player.
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The more I think about it, the more I wonder why people are so much higher on Andre Jackson over O-Max. O-Max is just as athletic, switchable defender, and a much better offensive player.
Andre Jackson has ball handling ability.
OMax is currently 2nd in Vertical at the combine though with 40.5 inches. Tied with Cam Whitmore.
Jackson at 39.5 just below them.
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Olivier Maxence-Prosper
Who dat?
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Andre Jackson has ball handling ability.
Yea, true.... but if I already have a star. I would probably rather have Omax for my NBA team.
And that's coming from me, and i think that that Andre Jackson might have been UConns best player last year.
Omax is just easier to pick to fill the role expected from him.
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Who dat?
Poorly placed hyphen. In a manor of speaking.
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O-Max is #37 on The Athletic’s top 100 draft board.
You know, almost every year we go through this - someone declaring early or “testing the waters” and many Scoopers are all “he’d develop more if he stayed another year.” Nuts to that. Fans say that because we desperately want him to ply his talents for our team one more year.
I say if he finds a way to get paid, I’m really happy for him.
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Mom
I agree completely. I hope he does great and will be pulling for him.
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I would like to have OMax on our team this upcoming season. What's it gonna take and when should I unload some stock?
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Muggsy
Time to move on. Portal time!!
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Muggsy
Time to move on. Portal time!!
Goose, we need a switchable that can guard all positions.
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They are easily found.
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https://twitter.com/noceilingsnba/status/1658293341942087681?s=61&t=E18U4ZhjoOTIlCnhs0P-pQ
https://twitter.com/nbadraftwass/status/1658255758738219011?s=61&t=E18U4ZhjoOTIlCnhs0P-pQ
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https://twitter.com/noceilingsnba/status/1658293341942087681?s=61&t=E18U4ZhjoOTIlCnhs0P-pQ
https://twitter.com/nbadraftwass/status/1658255758738219011?s=61&t=E18U4ZhjoOTIlCnhs0P-pQ
Huh … O-Max and Sanogo are almost the same height.
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At this point, I think it's more likely that OMax goes in the first round than he doesn't get drafted. Been saying it since last season, OMax has the tools that the NBA lusts after
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At this point, I think it's more likely that OMax goes in the first round than he doesn't get drafted. Been saying it since last season, OMax has the tools that the NBA lusts after
I do not.
Who is the last college basketball player that has appeared in under 10% of Draft Boards at all following a season, who then gets drafted in the first round?
The NBA Combine measurements are not the same as the NFL Combine measurements. They’re certainly helping OMax, but if he doesn't stand out in the scrimmages and team workouts it won’t mean that much.
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O-Max is #37 on The Athletic’s top 100 draft board.
You know, almost every year we go through this - someone declaring early or “testing the waters” and many Scoopers are all “he’d develop more if he stayed another year.” Nuts to that. Fans say that because we desperately want him to ply his talents for our team one more year.
I say if he finds a way to get paid, I’m really happy for him.
You got dat right Momo!
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At this point, I think it's more likely that OMax goes in the first round than he doesn't get drafted. Been saying it since last season, OMax has the tools that the NBA lusts after
At this rate, you will have him as a lottery pick in a few days!
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Have an increasing feeling OMax gets drafted compared to recent undrafted early entrants Justin Lewis and Vander Blue. His athletic testing was great. Though I was very confident Lewis would get picked last year too.
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I do not.
Who is the last college basketball player that has appeared in under 10% of Draft Boards at all following a season, who then gets drafted in the first round?
The NBA Combine measurements are not the same as the NFL Combine measurements. They’re certainly helping OMax, but if he doesn't stand out in the scrimmages and team workouts it won’t mean that much.
Yeah my post was a little hyperbolic. Just trying to convey the confidence I have in OMax getting drafted
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That’s just below my standing vertical and I’m not in the nba.
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I think Omax ends up going much, much higher than expected. He is going to have a long NBA career, Imo. Agree with TAMU that he has the tools that NBA lust after and I am surprised by the high number of naysayers on here in regard to Omax.
Next up on the MU to the NBA train will be Ben Gold. Much different set of tools than Omax, but another type of player that NBA guys really like and I believe he will be joining Omax in the NBA in short order.
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I think Omax ends up going much, much higher than expected. He is going to have a long NBA career, Imo. Agree with TAMU that he has the tools that NBA lust after and I am surprised by the high number of naysayers on here in regard to Omax.
Next up on the MU to the NBA train will be Ben Gold. Much different set of tools than Omax, but another type of player that NBA guys really like and I believe he will be joining Omax in the NBA in short order.
i can see this goose-omax is an energy guy with a magnet for the ball. he puts a few more LB.'s on himself without losing the speed and quickness, he might be an under the radar type of guy. his aggressiveness will translate real nicely over to the nba transition game
ben...too many variables for me yet. if he is surrounded by the right people advising him-maybe. if shaka gives ben some roles that showcase his strengths for an nba game, then, maybe. if ben realizes his talents and get's comfortable, you may see his production level improve exponentially. where i noticed ben improve last year was when he felt like he belonged on the court with the rest of the guys. he didn't look like the new kid on the block trying to fit in. i could see ben fitting in along the lines of a steve novak
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Low usage
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He definitely gowne.
Wrightsill coming back?
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Wrightsill coming back?
Impossible
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I think Omax ends up going much, much higher than expected. He is going to have a long NBA career, Imo. Agree with TAMU that he has the tools that NBA lust after and I am surprised by the high number of naysayers on here in regard to Omax.
Next up on the MU to the NBA train will be Ben Gold. Much different set of tools than Omax, but another type of player that NBA guys really like and I believe he will be joining Omax in the NBA in short order.
Completely agree. He could easily be a valuable role player on a good team as a 3 and D guy. He would be invaluable as a defender with his length and endless energy to harass a key player over the course of a playoff series, for example. The value of a guy like that has been so evident in watching the playoffs. On offense, most NBA offenses have two guys essentially just go and sit in the corner waiting for a kick out or to crash the boards when the scorers shoot. He can fill that role, and I'm sure improve his shooting even more over time. I think his game will translate very well to the NBA.
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Watching the playoffs a year ago is when I came to the conclusion that OMax is.better suited to the NBA than Justin. The game is so fast and there is so much switching on defense. OMax's forte.
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I think Omax ends up going much, much higher than expected. He is going to have a long NBA career, Imo. Agree with TAMU that he has the tools that NBA lust after and I am surprised by the high number of naysayers on here in regard to Omax.
Next up on the MU to the NBA train will be Ben Gold. Much different set of tools than Omax, but another type of player that NBA guys really like and I believe he will be joining Omax in the NBA in short order.
I do expect big improvement in Gold this year, which is one of the reasons i am not worried about Omax stating in the draft.
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I do expect big improvement in Gold this year, which is one of the reasons i am not worried about Omax stating in the draft.
There is zero chance that Gold or Joplin are going to replace what OMax did on the defensive end. I think people are discounting that tremendously.
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Deep in my heart I didn't think Justin was gonna get drafted. My head just told me he would because he stayed in the draft and I assumed that meant he got a promise of some kind from a team.
I'd be shocked if OMax doesn't get drafted.
"Only preliminary results in at the moment, but Olivier-Maxence Prosper had a historically good combine. His overall Combine Score of 96.9 is the 19th best ever for a power forward.
Once the final results are in, I will update the public dashboard with 2023 data"
https://twitter.com/kalidrafts/status/1658285138667601922?t=R59icnTQEgVVM1WRXF17pw&s=19
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On top of all his awesome testing metrics and drill finishes, OMax also shot 16 of 25 (64%) on the 3 point shooting star workout.
Put him on the leaderboard in the shooting category as well.
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There is zero chance that Gold or Joplin are going to replace what OMax did on the defensive end. I think people are discounting that tremendously.
No, but I think they’ll be better defensively than they were. I also think Chase Ross can be a disruptive defensive player.
I’ll say this for Jalopolin, he has the size to replicate some of the stuff OMax did
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There is zero chance that Gold or Joplin are going to replace what OMax did on the defensive end. I think people are discounting that tremendously.
Agree. The dropoff might not be as bad if they can adjust the system. But if they keep switching everything with Ben and Jop there could be some issues.
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There is zero chance that Gold or Joplin are going to replace what OMax did on the defensive end. I think people are discounting that tremendously.
Agree. I think Ben will give us some good minutes but he still is a work in progress.
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I will say it again, if there is not a portal addition, I think there will be a good number of disappointed fans next season. I do not the sky is falling but think it would it take a minor miracle to meet the lofty expectations for next season. I think they can be good to very good next season with the current guys and that is exciting. That said, my expectation for next year 100% will be based off whether there is a portal addition or not.
Again, I have said many times that I am going to have a feel for next season based off what Shaka does in the portal. If he goes with only the returning guys he may have a different feel than the experts ranking us in the top ten. IMO, even if Joplin and Gold make big strides there is a whole that needs to be filled.
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Deep in my heart I didn't think Justin was gonna get drafted. My head just told me he would because he stayed in the draft and I assumed that meant he got a promise of some kind from a team.
I'd be shocked if OMax doesn't get drafted.
"Only preliminary results in at the moment, but Olivier-Maxence Prosper had a historically good combine. His overall Combine Score of 96.9 is the 19th best ever for a power forward.
Once the final results are in, I will update the public dashboard with 2023 data"
https://twitter.com/kalidrafts/status/1658285138667601922?t=R59icnTQEgVVM1WRXF17pw&s=19
More than half the dudes on this list are centers…
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I will say it again, if there is not a portal addition, I think there will be a good number of disappointed fans next season. I do not the sky is falling but think it would it take a minor miracle to meet the lofty expectations for next season. I think they can be good to very good next season with the current guys and that is exciting. That said, my expectation for next year 100% will be based off whether there is a portal addition or not.
Again, I have said many times that I am going to have a feel for next season based off what Shaka does in the portal. If he goes with only the returning guys he may have a different feel than the experts ranking us in the top ten. IMO, even if Joplin and Gold make big strides there is a whole that needs to be filled.
Either way I'd be surprised if Marquette finished better than 29-7.
They swept all but 3 teams in Big East play and split with the remaining 3. That probably ain't happening with or without OMax in this loaded league.
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Golden
I am not talking simply about the overall record. I think few on here believe that will be matched next season. I am talking overall performance and expectations for March. There is a major hole on defense and lack of size, IMO. They will be fun to watch but I will hold off buying FF tickets until we see what happens in the portal.
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There is zero chance that Gold or Joplin are going to replace what OMax did on the defensive end. I think people are discounting that tremendously.
I think people are tremendously discounting the notion of a one for one exchange. Gold is not stepping in from day one and filling OMax’s spot. Shaka will have creative measures to utilize Stevie and Chase and Gold on the defensive end.
Funny how many on here think they know Shaka’s job better than him.
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I will say it again, if there is not a portal addition, I think there will be a good number of disappointed fans next season. I do not the sky is falling but think it would it take a minor miracle to meet the lofty expectations for next season. I think they can be good to very good next season with the current guys and that is exciting. That said, my expectation for next year 100% will be based off whether there is a portal addition or not.
Again, I have said many times that I am going to have a feel for next season based off what Shaka does in the portal. If he goes with only the returning guys he may have a different feel than the experts ranking us in the top ten. IMO, even if Joplin and Gold make big strides there is a whole that needs to be filled.
Agreed to be a title contender this year an addition is likely needed. But I can’t blame Shaka if he is making a long term play by not over recruiting players already on the team. With the goal of having this as a recruiting pitch to higher level players out of high school in the future.
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Shooter
Agreed. That is why I have said I am fine with either direction. Land a portal guy and I am 100% in a NC run next season. If not, keep recruited better players and build the program. I just think anyone that thinks the loss of Omax does not change expectations for next season is expecting too much from the returning guys.
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Golden
I am not talking simply about the overall record. I think few on here believe that will be matched next season. I am talking overall performance and expectations for March. There is a major hole on defense and lack of size, IMO. They will be fun to watch but I will hold off buying FF tickets until we see what happens in the portal.
They won't sweep Big East Titles either.
The goal for the players and expectations for the fans are likely Sweet 16 or further, maybe the expectations are larger than that should OMax return.
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Either way I'd be surprised if Marquette finished better than 29-7.
They swept all but 3 teams in Big East play and split with the remaining 3. That probably ain't happening with or without OMax in this loaded league.
I completely agree with you but I don't really care about this.
The metric for success is March. We better win more than one tournament game next year, with or without OMax or an OMax replacement.
I would take a 24-12 record and a Sweet 16 appearance over last season's record. Big East titles are nice but its like icing with no cake.
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I will say it again, if there is not a portal addition, I think there will be a good number of disappointed fans next season. I do not the sky is falling but think it would it take a minor miracle to meet the lofty expectations for next season. I think they can be good to very good next season with the current guys and that is exciting. That said, my expectation for next year 100% will be based off whether there is a portal addition or not.
Again, I have said many times that I am going to have a feel for next season based off what Shaka does in the portal. If he goes with only the returning guys he may have a different feel than the experts ranking us in the top ten. IMO, even if Joplin and Gold make big strides there is a whole that needs to be filled.
I understand what you're saying and agree with a lot of it, Goose.
The tough part is thinking we know what's going on in Shaka's mind. Maybe he honestly believes that the combination of Gold/Ross/Joplin/freshmen easily replaces O-Max on offense and hangs in there on defense, and he honestly believes he has a Big East and March contender even if he doesn't bring in someone from the portal.
Or not. I don't claim to know.
Like you, I do hope we use our open scholarship to get someone who can help us on D and the boards. An ability to hit the open J even at a Prosper level (34% last season) would be a nice bonus.
But I'll wait until we see what we have and how it all fits together to predict how good we'll be 10 months from now.
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Impossible
Why?
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We better win more than one tournament game next year, with or without OMax or an OMax replacement.
What if we don't?
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Why?
No one named “Wrightsill” was at MU, therefore they can’t “come back” to #muMbb
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Why?
Because you may be the Sultan of Semantics, but Jay Bee is the Prince of Pedantics.
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82
Time will tell what Shaka is thinking. IMO, I will be very surprised if there is not an addition made to the team. I have also said many times that one of the biggest things I loved about the Shaka hire was he still has a lot to prove in March for his resume to be complete. He has not had a stellar NCAA record over the past decade and that the one knock you can have about him. If he thinks this team is the real deal, I think he makes a portal addition in next couple of weeks. Winning in March would only enhance Shaka's resume and his ability to attract even better players.
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82
Time will tell what Shaka is thinking. IMO, I will be very surprised if there is not an addition made to the team. I have also said many times that one of the biggest things I loved about the Shaka hire was he still has a lot to prove in March for his resume to be complete. He has not had a stellar NCAA record over the past decade and that the one knock you can have about him. If he thinks this team is the real deal, I think he makes a portal addition in next couple of weeks. Winning in March would only enhance Shaka's resume and his ability to attract even better players.
Well, I can't argue with a word of that about Shaka's resume. Should be an interesting coupla weeks.
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Goose - Here is the one place I lose you. Can we not live in a world where Shaka thinks this team has national contender potential next year but doesn’t add a player because he can’t?
It’s not like Shaka just snaps his fingers and says, “O-Max is gone, I’ll go to aisle six and pick a player up that is his equivalent in terms of skill, chemistry fit, willingness to play secondary defense role, etc.” The right player doesn’t just grow on trees waiting to be picked when Shaka wants to pick him.
How do you know that Shaka (a) doesn’t think this team has national contender potential, (b) doesn’t want a replacement for Omax, and (c) realizes there is no suitable replacement available?
It isn’t a black and white world. The fact that I haven’t yet gotten to play Augusta does not mean my golf game isn’t worthy (it isn’t) or that I won’t some day down the line.
I have zero doubt that Shaka would love to replace Omax through the portal with someone that can bring what Omax brought in terms of skill, defense, team chemistry, NIL considerations, etc. Based on the fact that he hasn’t yet done so, tells me (a) he has someone in mind but he’s still waiting for final confirmation from Omax, or (b) there isn’t such a player to be found that we can get to come to MU. I think it much less likely that Shaka doesn’t think the team is a real national contender, as he has brought in one year players before on lesser teams.
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Cam
If the early preseason rankings are remotely accurate and MU is considered a top 5 team with Omax, where do you think they are without him in the rankings?
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I would be more surprised than not if we add someone of impact regardless of what O Max does. Shaka is pretty explicit with his philoshy on NIL (current guys come first) and I would imagine that extends to PT & shots. It was telling that Bill Scholl came out and told us Shaka asked if he could recruit who he wants. I think Shaka is a draft & develop guy. His team might be complete right now. Improvement & replacement will come from within.
Goose you're spot on about Shaka / March but I'm going to trust Shaka on roster construction. 17-3 + a BET shows me he can win big time.
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Cam
If the early preseason rankings are remotely accurate and MU is considered a top 5 team with Omax, where do you think they are without him in the rankings?
If OMax doesn't return and there is not a significant portal addition, I still expect MU to be ranked between 5 - 10 preseason.
Just one person but Seth Davis did an up-to-date top 25 for The Athletic last week accounting for personnel changes so far and he had Marquette at #3 with the assumption that OMax is not coming back.
Like others, I'm not worried about the offense but how his departure will impact the defense.
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I am rooting for Omax to sign with an NBA team. It helps our program to continually place players in The Association.
We now have balanced classes , very confident that our next three players up (a Junior who was Big East 6th man of the year , a Soph who played meaningful minutes and a lengthy defensive minded Freshman)fill their respective roles very well.
Also important to keep in mind there will be 60-70 other players leaving their teams for The NBA. So its how does MU prosper in that new roster environment for all teams. Rather than how to we do in a vacuum with just a Prosper subtraction .
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Who in the transfer portal could be plugged in for OMax?
I'm starting to suspect that if OMax goes pro then Wrightsil will return.
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I would be more surprised than not if we add someone of impact regardless of what O Max does. Shaka is pretty explicit with his philoshy on NIL (current guys come first) and I would imagine that extends to PT & shots. It was telling that Bill Scholl came out and told us Shaka asked if he could recruit who he wants. I think Shaka is a draft & develop guy. His team might be complete right now. Improvement & replacement will come from within.
Goose you're spot on about Shaka / March but I'm going to trust Shaka on roster construction. 17-3 + a BET shows me he can win big time.
This. It interesting that people here are discounting Shaka’s approach after the year we just had.
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Goose, in the "next MU player to NBA" thread, you said this:
Gold by a very margin, IMO. Aside from his skillsets, I think he has an edge to him that will suit him well moving forward.
Maybe Shaka agrees with you 100% about that ... and maybe he actually believes Gold's big breakout will be this upcoming season, meaning 25-30 solid minutes of PT per game for the Marquette player you think is most likely to be an NBAer.
Let me ask you this:
If Shaka landed someone from the transfer portal today who has Gold's skill set and "edge," and if Shaka believed that player is ready to consistently display those skills against good competition, wouldn't you be sky-high on the 2023-24 team's prospects for a March run?
Also, I think 9-9-9 and VBMG make solid points -- MU doesn't operate in a vacuum.
That O-Max was the only loss from the rotation to either the NBA or the transfer portal is a major, major win for Shaka compared to other Big East teams and most ranked teams. Add in Norman, and improvement from several guys thanks to a coaching staff that has proven its ability to develop players, and it's a reason to be realistically optimistic whether or not an O-Max replacement is brought in IMHO.
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82
They lost a 29mpg guy that was a great defender, and that spot is open. I am 100% fine with whatever Shaka does, but seems silly to leave a spot vacant, especially when a top ten team. Again, let's see what happens.
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ZW appears to be the contingency plan.
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82
They lost a 29mpg guy that was a great defender, and that spot is open. I am 100% fine with whatever Shaka does, but seems silly to leave a spot vacant, especially when a top ten team. Again, let's see what happens.
Don’t get me wrong, Goose, I absolutely want to fill the spot, and I’ll be a little disappointed if we don’t. I want Shaka to get the best player available to fill that role.
But I have no choice but to trust his judgment re ability, chemistry, NIL, etc.
So I’m looking for reasons to be optimistic even if Shaka can’t find or get that guy. And if Ben Gold this season can come close to being as good as you think he will be, that would be a major reason for optimism.
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82
They lost a 29mpg guy that was a great defender, and that spot is open. I am 100% fine with whatever Shaka does, but seems silly to leave a spot vacant, especially when a top ten team. Again, let's see what happens.
I think this argument is clear - Some feel the need to add a big in the portal for depth or even a replacement for OMAX since with him we are a clear title contender. The other side has various strains of the returning players and recruits + Shaka coaching development will allow the sum to be greater then than the individual parts.
The way I would phrase side 2 is that the remaining 11 players with possible exception of Al Amadou (who would still serve in any of the past 40 years of MU basketball as a serviceable 4th big) - so lets say remaining 10 plyers are all GOOD high major basketball players with at least 3 who I would say are legit AAs (Kolek, Oso, K Jones). You want to use that 29 minutes to keep your 10 committed, all getting some playing time in the first half as well as garbage time which is what Shaka did last year which probably hurt some of our metrics but is going to pay off big time this year, as it showed the whole team committed to each other, everyone considered a player, and resulting in everyone coming back (last year: Gold getting a minute or 2 in first halves in particular, but Sean and Ross getting minutes early also).
This team will have 10 high quality players with AAs among them. They have plenty of quality size, definitely more than the vast majority of MU teams over the past 40 years. Shaka and the coaches can make that work. I think Ross will get plenty of play if he explodes like Kam and Jop and Oso and Kolek did last year. 3 and 4 guard lineups can work if Ross becomes a Butler like monster on both ends of the floor. Every year in CBB teams lose great players and a different mix steps up. I would rather not add anyone outside of a Wrightsill or end of bench big for practice and emergency purposes. Keep the Shaka formula - if Kolek didn't get hurt I think we were a final 4 team. This coming year I think we will have the depth to succeed with an injury - look how well X did after Freemantle etc. 10 very good to great high major players, all committed is enough. That's my take.
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This. It interesting that people here are discounting Shaka’s approach after the year we just had.
I think there are more people here that got the wrong impression from that Athletic article than there are discounting Shaka’s approach. He followed up that article with some comments on the Marquette Basketball weekly show.
He said he thought too many people were interpreting that article as “I’ll never use NIL to get a transfer”. He said what he really was saying was that he did not feel there was anyone in the portal last year that he felt was a better option than what he already had on the roster. So why give money to them when he can give it to his guys who he feels are better anyway.
He said he would be more than open to using NIL to attract someone who would fill a hole or give the team something they don’t have that would help them meet their goals.
I just thought that needed to be pointed out because so many people keep saying that Shaka has said he wouldn’t use NIL to recruit. The Athletic article implied that but Shaka corrected it later.
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Programs like Virginia, UW-Madison, Purdue, Houston under Sampson have been consistently good by retention and development.
Their best years, they have first rounders on the roster.
Gonzaga was this way for a long time, too. I don’t see this staff taking “quick fix” approaches to roster construction. Not to start another debate about what constitutes success, but I’m good with how the staff is building the program. Sustained winning and tournament appearances will lead to greater opportunities at the big prize.
Maybe there is a short-term transfer option this cycle that is a difference maker immediately but it’s far more likely anyone added isn’t a plug-and-play for OMax.
I know instant gratification is what is wanted and maybe it can still happen as is, but I’m good with big picture thinking and taking a bite of the apple next March (ducks).
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I think there are more people here that got the wrong impression from that Athletic article than there are discounting Shaka’s approach. He followed up that article with some comments on the Marquette Basketball weekly show.
He said he thought too many people were interpreting that article as “I’ll never use NIL to get a transfer”. He said what he really was saying was that he did not feel there was anyone in the portal last year that he felt was a better option than what he already had on the roster. So why give money to them when he can give it to his guys who he feels are better anyway.
He said he would be more than open to using NIL to attract someone who would fill a hole or give the team something they don’t have that would help them meet their goals.
I just thought that needed to be pointed out because so many people keep saying that Shaka has said he wouldn’t use NIL to recruit. The Athletic article implied that but Shaka corrected it later.
He'll use NIL to recruit...but he won't throw more NIL at a recruit than the top guys he already has on his roster are getting
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He said he thought too many people were interpreting that article as “I’ll never use NIL to get a transfer”. He said what he really was saying was that he did not feel there was anyone in the portal last year that he felt was a better option than what he already had on the roster. So why give money to them when he can give it to his guys who he feels are better anyway.
He said he would be more than open to using NIL to attract someone who would fill a hole or give the team something they don’t have that would help them meet their goals.
I just thought that needed to be pointed out because so many people keep saying that Shaka has said he wouldn’t use NIL to recruit. The Athletic article implied that but Shaka corrected it later.
I highly doubt this.
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He'll use NIL to recruit...but he won't throw more NIL at a recruit than the top guys he already has on his roster are getting
Much better way of saying what I was trying to say.
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I highly doubt this.
I understand why you doubt this. Because it is illegal to use NIL to recruit which is what my post said while trying to paraphrase what Shaka said. He was just just correcting the impression the article gave that he would not use the portal.
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If O-Max goes, I’m 100% in favor of the return of Wrightsil. His impact as a teammate was clear, even while sidelined. There’s value in his leadership. Even if he only ends up getting 10-15 min/game.
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What if we don't?
Would be a massive disappointment
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Would be a massive disappointment
I hate to say it, but get ready to be disappointed. At this point our best best is to bring back Zach Wrightsil. He was a fabulous teammate last year and might be that "locker room" guy that's needed to keep things fun and loose. Not sure what he'll bring to the team on the court though
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I hate to say it, but get ready to be disappointed. At this point our best best is to bring back Zach Wrightsil. He was a fabulous teammate last year and might be that "locker room" guy that's needed to keep things fun and loose. Not sure what he'll bring to the team on the court though
I think we should bring Wrightsel back. At worse he would be a valuable practice player.
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I think this argument is clear - Some feel the need to add a big in the portal for depth or even a replacement for OMAX since with him we are a clear title contender. The other side has various strains of the returning players and recruits + Shaka coaching development will allow the sum to be greater then than the individual parts.
The way I would phrase side 2 is that the remaining 11 players with possible exception of Al Amadou (who would still serve in any of the past 40 years of MU basketball as a serviceable 4th big) - so lets say remaining 10 plyers are all GOOD high major basketball players with at least 3 who I would say are legit AAs (Kolek, Oso, K Jones). You want to use that 29 minutes to keep your 10 committed, all getting some playing time in the first half as well as garbage time which is what Shaka did last year which probably hurt some of our metrics but is going to pay off big time this year, as it showed the whole team committed to each other, everyone considered a player, and resulting in everyone coming back (last year: Gold getting a minute or 2 in first halves in particular, but Sean and Ross getting minutes early also).
This team will have 10 high quality players with AAs among them. They have plenty of quality size, definitely more than the vast majority of MU teams over the past 40 years. Shaka and the coaches can make that work. I think Ross will get plenty of play if he explodes like Kam and Jop and Oso and Kolek did last year. 3 and 4 guard lineups can work if Ross becomes a Butler like monster on both ends of the floor. Every year in CBB teams lose great players and a different mix steps up. I would rather not add anyone outside of a Wrightsill or end of bench big for practice and emergency purposes. Keep the Shaka formula - if Kolek didn't get hurt I think we were a final 4 team. This coming year I think we will have the depth to succeed with an injury - look how well X did after Freemantle etc. 10 very good to great high major players, all committed is enough. That's my take.
Good analysis.
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Need an emergency big. Hopefully someone better than Keeyan. If Oso or Gold go down the season spirals.
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OMax measures in at 6'6.75".
7'1" wingspan which is about average for his height.
So I think the big question will be whether he can defend small forwards in the NBA.
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Kalkbrenner and Edey (7'3.25") are the only 7'+ guys at the combine.
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OMax measures in at 6'6.75".
7'1" wingspan which is about average for his height.
So I think the big question will be whether he can defend small forwards in the NBA.
All his numbers stood out, elite athleticism and good size and length. He confirmed what most already knew, from a physical standpoint, he looks like a 1st rounder. The question is, do those physical attributes translate to the basketball court at a similarly high level, or if not, can a team develop him.
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All his numbers stood out, elite athleticism and good size and length. He confirmed what most already knew, from a physical standpoint, he looks like a 1st rounder. The question is, do those physical attributes translate to the basketball court at a similarly high level, or if not, can a team develop him.
That is the challenge for the borderline guys, what teams need to figure out. If a team thinks the answer is yes, he can be an early-to-mid 2nd rounder.
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All his numbers stood out, elite athleticism and good size and length. He confirmed what most already knew, from a physical standpoint, he looks like a 1st rounder. The question is, do those physical attributes translate to the basketball court at a similarly high level, or if not, can a team develop him.
The question a team should ask is “can we keep him upright on the court?”
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That is the challenge for the borderline guys, what teams need to figure out. If a team thinks the answer is yes, he can be an early-to-mid 2nd rounder.
He will go higher.
John Thierey (Packers and Bears)….looked like tarzan, played like Jane. We was given more than his fair share of opportunities because he was very fast and very strong. The problem was….he wasn't much of a football player.
There will be plenty if GMs who will be willing to take a shot on OMax due to the athleticism, etc.
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He will go higher.
John Thierey (Packers and Bears)….looked like tarzan, played like Jane. We was given more than his fair share of opportunities because he was very fast and very strong. The problem was….he wasn't much of a football player.
There will be plenty if GMs who will be willing to take a shot on OMax due to the athleticism, etc.
But compared to other 6’6” - 6’8” NBA players, he has good, but not elite athleticism.
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But compared to other 6’6” - 6’8” NBA players, he has good, but not elite athleticism.
The Combine results suggest he has elite athleticism.
But Combine measurements matter much more in the NFL. If OMax performs well in the scrimmages he’ll jump up. If not he’ll have a difficult decision to make.
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But compared to other 6’6” - 6’8” NBA players, he has good, but not elite athleticism.
The data says otherwise. His combine measurements rank him as the 19th most athletic PF ever. Top 3 rankings in max vert, standing vert, and shuttle run. Top 5 in lane agility.
Those rankings are across all athletes, so elite for a guy that measure almost 6'7" barefoot.
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?SeasonYear=2023-24&dir=A&sort=LANE_AGILITY_TIME
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Also if you want to see any of the other stats (not officially posted yet). Just add this to the end of the url
?SeasonYear=2023-24
e.g.
normal link:
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro
Will get you to this years data:
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro?SeasonYear=2023-24
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#BabyHands
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#BabyHands
Maybe that's why he struggled to hold onto the ball at times.
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The data says otherwise. His combine measurements rank him as the 19th most athletic PF ever. Top 3 rankings in max vert, standing vert, and shuttle run. Top 5 in lane agility.
Those rankings are across all athletes, so elite for a guy that measure almost 6'7" barefoot.
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?SeasonYear=2023-24&dir=A&sort=LANE_AGILITY_TIME
How does he compare against Small forwards?
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How does he compare against Small forwards?
All time, not sure. But in this class, only Terrance Shannon Jr can compare to him in terms of athletics measurements, and Shannon Jr is substantially smaller.
Omax compares well height wise, and is elite in terms of length compared to other PFs in this years draft (3rd largest wingspan).
He'd be the 2nd tallest SF in the combine, and by far the largest wingspan for SFs, while outperforming them in terms of athletic abilities.
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#BabyHands
#45
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This is going to sound a bit nonsensical, but I wouldn’t be so certain that great combine measurements and a very good showing at the combine would push OMax towards entering the draft.
Why? Well OMax wasn’t on many draft boards before this combine, and now he will catch the eyes of a lot of scouts and make his way into quite a few front office discussions. That said, because he will be making such a “late push,” I would find it hard to imagine him going higher than mid to early 2nd round even in the best case scenario, which it is shaping up to be for him so far.
So, that’s a guaranteed stone cold lock that he goes right?
Well, not necessarily if he’s advised correctly.
Now that OMax is fully on the radar for his elite athletic abilities, all eyes would be on him much more next season.
His athleticism won’t go anywhere, and he would have a chance to shine on an elite NCAA team and show off the plethora of his skills.
If things go well and he continues to improve he could move himself into the mid first round.
Shaka has always believed in Prospers raw talent and athleticism, that’s why he brought him to Marquette. It’s time for OMax to believe in Shaka and his ability to help make him a bonafide first rounder.
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Good analysis.
Well, it was passionate and optimistic. I especially like the belief that we’ll have 3 All-Americans next season.
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All time, not sure. But in this class, only Terrance Shannon Jr can compare to him in terms of athletics measurements, and Shannon Jr is substantially smaller.
Omax compares well height wise, and is elite in terms of length compared to other PFs in this years draft (3rd largest wingspan).
He'd be the 2nd tallest SF in the combine, and by far the largest wingspan for SFs, while outperforming them in terms of athletic abilities.
I’m not sure why you compare him to PFs. He is gonna be a ‘3 and D’ guy.
We know he has the mentality and work ethic to succeed. Does he have the 3 point ability?
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This is going to sound a bit nonsensical, but I wouldn’t be so certain that great combine measurements and a very good showing at the combine would push OMax towards entering the draft.
Why? Well OMax wasn’t on many draft boards before this combine, and now he will catch the eyes of a lot of scouts and make his way into quite a few front office discussions. That said, because he will be making such a “late push,” I would find it hard to imagine him going higher than mid to early 2nd round even in the best case scenario, which it is shaping up to be for him so far.
So, that’s a guaranteed stone cold lock that he goes right?
Well, not necessarily if he’s advised correctly.
Now that OMax is fully on the radar for his elite athletic abilities, all eyes would be on him much more next season.
His athleticism won’t go anywhere, and he would have a chance to shine on an elite NCAA team and show off the plethora of his skills.
If things go well and he continues to improve he could move himself into the mid first round.
Shaka has always believed in Prospers raw talent and athleticism, that’s why he brought him to Marquette. It’s time for OMax to believe in Shaka and his ability to help make him a bonafide first rounder.
I think you are being way too optimistic. I think the odds are heavy that he’s gone.
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I said it when he declared...he gowne, aina?
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I said it when he declared...he gowne, aina?
I don't think we every really know what you are saying.
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I’m not sure why you compare him to PFs. He is gonna be a ‘3 and D’ guy.
We know he has the mentality and work ethic to succeed. Does he have the 3 point ability?
Agreed, the PF comparison doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I think he’d pretty clearly play the 3 primarily with maybe a bit of 4 in small lineups.
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This is going to sound a bit nonsensical, but I wouldn’t be so certain that great combine measurements and a very good showing at the combine would push OMax towards entering the draft.
Why? Well OMax wasn’t on many draft boards before this combine, and now he will catch the eyes of a lot of scouts and make his way into quite a few front office discussions. That said, because he will be making such a “late push,” I would find it hard to imagine him going higher than mid to early 2nd round even in the best case scenario, which it is shaping up to be for him so far.
So, that’s a guaranteed stone cold lock that he goes right?
Well, not necessarily if he’s advised correctly.
Now that OMax is fully on the radar for his elite athletic abilities, all eyes would be on him much more next season.
His athleticism won’t go anywhere, and he would have a chance to shine on an elite NCAA team and show off the plethora of his skills.
If things go well and he continues to improve he could move himself into the mid first round.
Shaka has always believed in Prospers raw talent and athleticism, that’s why he brought him to Marquette. It’s time for OMax to believe in Shaka and his ability to help make him a bonafide first rounder.
Doc, I love ya. however, word on the street is that he’s all but cleaned out his locker in Milwaukee.
Shaka and crew have stayed close with him since he left, he’s been given sound advice. But No one is going to stop a kid from chasing his dream.
This is NOT a Vander Blue type situation.
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Goldeneagle91114, please check in-box
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I don't think we every really know care what you are saying.
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Sam Vecenie in The Athletic put out a new post-lottery mock draft last night. He has O-Max going 49th overall to Cleveland.
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Goldeneagle91114, please check in-box
Thanks Boone! I see you and responded!
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Agreed, the PF comparison doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I think he’d pretty clearly play the 3 primarily with maybe a bit of 4 in small lineups.
The position doesn't matter as much as the role.
O-Max defensive role:
Versatile perimeter defender
A) primarily defend scoring wings (traditionally SG & SF)
B) but also big enough to defend some Stretch 4s and quick enough to defend some PG
O-Max offensive role:
A) spot up 3 point shooter (trending up but still needs improvement)
B) attack closeouts with straight line drives
C) basket cuts
D) transition
Shooting is the swing skill that will make or break O-Max. If he shoots well enough, O-Max fits the 3 & D mold. His offense would resemble a Stretch 4, while being a Swiss Army Knife defender.
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The position doesn't matter as much as the role.
O-Max defensive role:
Versatile perimeter defender
A) primarily defend scoring wings (traditionally SG & SF)
B) but also big enough to defend some Stretch 4s and quick enough to defend some PG
O-Max offensive role:
A) spot up 3 point shooter (trending up but still needs improvement)
B) attack closeouts with straight line drives
C) basket cuts
D) transition
Shooting is the swing skill that will make or break O-Max. If he shoots well enough, O-Max fits the 3 & D mold. His offense would resemble a Stretch 4, while being a Swiss Army Knife defender.
I don't disagree but when you're comparing the combine results based on position it does matter and, to me, Omax most clearly profiles as a 3&D guy if he can continue to improve his shot, which is typically the '3' in the NBA.
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Jerel McNeal
@jerel_mcneal
I’m locked in! Let’s go Omax
Ryan Cassidy
@ryancassidycbb
NBA Combine 5v5 Scrimmages start today at 2pm (ET) on ESPN2
Big East Participants:
Team 1
Adama Sanogo, UConn
Team 2
Arthur Kaluma, Creighton
Ryan Kalkbrenner, Creighton
Team 3
Olivier-Maxence Prosper, Marquette
Andre Jackson, UConn
Trey Alexander, Creighton
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Sam Vecenie in The Athletic put out a new post-lottery mock draft last night. He has O-Max going 49th overall to Cleveland.
Givony on ESPN has him going #56 to Memphis.
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Anyone know if this guy knows anything? https://twitter.com/demetriusbowels/status/1658856720301531139?s=46&t=HLoNtkTVfvSoDEzJafqc2g
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Anyone know if this guy knows anything? https://twitter.com/demetriusbowels/status/1658856720301531139?s=46&t=HLoNtkTVfvSoDEzJafqc2g
He is rather stating what seems to be obvious?
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Anyone know if this guy knows anything? https://twitter.com/demetriusbowels/status/1658856720301531139?s=46&t=HLoNtkTVfvSoDEzJafqc2g (https://twitter.com/demetriusbowels/status/1658856720301531139?s=46&t=HLoNtkTVfvSoDEzJafqc2g)
never heard of him but he later tweeted this one: https://twitter.com/DemetriusBowels/status/1658868062295146496 (https://twitter.com/DemetriusBowels/status/1658868062295146496)
Additionally, look for #MUBB to pursue "every option" when looking to fill the open scholarship spots. This includes transfer portal and additional recruits.
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He is rather stating what seems to be obvious?
Agree, Omax is gone. We need to get comfortable with life post OMAX
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OMAX is clearly GONE.
The question is will Wrightsil stay ?
Does Shaka get someone else in the portal? I think he needs to …
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Portal time. IMO, this is not news on Omax and believe a portal addition is on the way. I think it will be a Kur like addition.
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O-Max with a monster slam in transition early in his combine scrimmage. Follows it up with a nice transition assist. On ESPN 2.
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Huge dunk in traffic to start the game. Lots of oohs and aahs. Man, I hope he gets the chance to play in the league.
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https://twitter.com/ac__hoops/status/1658902146987827207?s=46&t=5FASZRHgruhjFLVJKu-4pQ
Footage of the dunk
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ESPN now minimizing the game screen to a tiny window to show some side panel with these dudes I’ve never heard of talking about random stories that I don’t care the slightest about. Can’t even see which player is which
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Broadcaster mentioned Shaka was there in support on Monday. And confirms there’s been significant “buzz” about O-Max at the combine.
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OMax looking like best player on his team to start the scrimmage but missing some free throws. Getting some love from the ESPN panel
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It sure looks like O-Max is trending toward the second round, but man, if he stays, it feels like he could be the rare senior who could play himself into the lottery. So much ability.
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21Jump
I think Omax has a very long NBA career. Very happy to be seeing him doing well this week. Now it is time for Shaka to fill in the spot on the roster.
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Trey Alexander I’ve now seen airball 2 shots I believe. He was the type of guy who i thought would shoot his stock up but if he keeps doing this maybe won’t impress and come back to Creighton. Obviously no idea what the scouts opinions of him is though
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Go get that bag Omax!
Shaka gotta fill that void or our ceiling will be lowered.
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Go get that bag Omax!
Shaka gotta fill that void or our ceiling will be lowered.
I mean, the ceiling will technically be lowered "no matter what". Unless you get 2 amazing players. Which i don't forsee MU doing otherwise they would have been more active pre draft process.
Only argument would be like Julian Phillips.
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Combine games have like maybe 1 or 2 first round guys. B squad games aina. Good setup for OMax to show athleticism, but i think ppl already knew him for that
Come back for JUNIOR yr, OMax!!
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I am confident Joplin will fill into OMax’s role in the starting lineup quite nicely
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He is rather stating what seems to be obvious?
All of his predictions certainly seem that way. Kam Jones returning, Royce Parham committing to Marquette, O-Max staying in the draft...most people without any direct inside knowledge could draw these conclusions and be right.
Nothing super surprising or unexpected.
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O-Max interview coming up on ESPN 2.
21 points and 7 boards in the scrimmage. Nice to see O-Max and his agent making the right call on playing in this scrimmage. Stark contrast to Lewis last season.
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OMax w 21 and 7, getting an interview
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O-Max interview coming up on ESPN 2.
21 points and 7 boards in the scrimmage.
Good showing and played a team game.
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I mean, the ceiling will technically be lowered "no matter what". Unless you get 2 amazing players. Which i don't forsee MU doing otherwise they would have been more active pre draft process.
Only argument would be like Julian Phillips.
Fair. How much lower will depend on what we do with that open spot though
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Great stock boosting performance every scout on twitter talking about him. Might’ve been enough to guarantee he now gets drafted
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O-Max interview coming up on ESPN 2.
21 points and 7 boards in the scrimmage. Nice to see O-Max and his agent making the right call on playing in this scrimmage. Stark contrast to Lewis last season.
As 9-9-9 might say, an excellent interview. Confident young man who knows what he wants and who is willing to work his rear off to get it.
The most revealing thing he said (re his NBA/MU situation) that jumped out at me was that he wanted to get NBA feedback that would tell him what he wants to hear so "I don't have to go to college."
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I am confident Joplin will fill into OMax’s role in the starting lineup quite nicely
On offense and rebounding? Sure. On defense? :o
We were an elite offensive team and an average defensive team last season. Our offense can't get much better, our defense could get a lot worse. Subtracting our best defender and replacing him with one of our worst defenders doesn't seem to be ideal.
To be clear, we will still be very good next season. I could also see several players making jumps defensively, plus Norman and Lowery are coming in with reputations as good defenders. I would still feel more comfortable if we added a lockdown defender with size via the portal.
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1/5 from 3. Team +19, but OMax -3
Crown him
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On offense and rebounding? Sure. On defense? :o
We were an elite offensive team and an average defensive team last season. Our offense can't get much better, our defense could get a lot worse. Subtracting our best defender and replacing him with one of our worst defenders doesn't seem to be ideal.
To be clear, we will still be very good next season. I could also see several players making jumps defensively, plus Norman and Lowery are coming in with reputations as good defenders. I would still feel more comfortable if we added a lockdown defender with size via the portal.
So for those following the portal and who is still available closely, is there anyone that fits the description of a lockdown defender with size? Who also doesn't want to break the NIL bank?
Would ne nice if Jop continues to get stronger but also can improve his lateral quickness but maybe that's just not in the cards. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought Kam was quite a bit better with his on-ball defense last season - maybe Jop can take a similar step.
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Great stock boosting performance every scout on twitter talking about him. Might’ve been enough to guarantee he now gets drafted
During the telecast of the scrimmage, the ESPN folks had an interesting conversation about it being better to not get drafted vs. getting drafted in the second half of the second round. They pointed to Austin Reaves, who went undrafted in 2021, chose the team he wanted to play for (the Lakers), took advantage of his 2-way contract to play 61 games with LA as a rookie, has been outstanding this season, and is now in line for a contract that could pay him $50M or more over the next 4 years.
They said his agent was working the phones on draft night begging teams NOT to take Reaves in the second round, and they said that the practice is quite common.
Is it possible that Justin Lewis' agent also was making such a plea once Lewis didn't get selected in the first half of the second round? Lewis was signed to a 2-way contract by the Bulls just minutes after the draft.
So O-Max might not need to hear teams say they'll draft him, only that teams will say they'll want to sign him to a 2-way contract if he doesn't get drafted.
He pretty obviously isn't returning to Marquette. Time for Shaka to get busy (or busier).
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During the telecast of the scrimmage, the ESPN folks had an interesting conversation about it being better to not get drafted vs. getting drafted in the second half of the second round. They pointed to Austin Reaves, who went undrafted in 2021, chose the team he wanted to play for (the Lakers), took advantage of his 2-way contract to play 61 games with LA as a rookie, has been outstanding this season, and is now in line for a contract that could pay him $50M or more over the next 4 years.
They said his agent was working the phones on draft night begging teams NOT to take Reaves in the second round, and they said that the practice is quite common.
Is it possible that Justin Lewis' agent also was making such a plea once Lewis didn't get selected in the first half of the second round? Lewis was signed to a 2-way contract by the Bulls just minutes after the draft.
So O-Max might not need to hear teams say they'll draft him, only that teams will say they'll want to sign him to a 2-way contract if he doesn't get drafted.
He pretty obviously isn't returning to Marquette. Time for Shaka to get busy (or busier).
If a team want a players draft rights…. Screw what the agent says.
You draft them, they are good. You have that player on your roster for 7-8 years anyways.
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1/5 from 3. Team +19, but OMax -3
Crown him
When Omax put up 21 & 7 with a Marquette win, we'd crown him Stud of the game!!!!
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1/5 from 3. Team +19, but OMax -3
Crown him
You are better than that. Plus minus for individual games no matta.
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If a team want a players draft rights…. Screw what the agent says.
You draft them, they are good. You have that player on your roster for 7-8 years anyways.
Oh, I agree. If I'm the GM of the team with the 51st pick, and I want O-Max, I'm drafting him. Not gonna let someone else get him.
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Come back for JUNIOR yr, OMax!!
#fakenews #lies
Just because he can take two more years doesn't mean he'd be a junior. Marquette already listed him as a junior this past year.
https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/olivier-maxence-prosper/7100
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I think JB was chumming the board in order to engage in one of his pedantic harangues.
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1/5 from 3. Team +19, but OMax -3
Crown him
The 1 for 5 means something.
The +/- means nothing.
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If a team want a players draft rights…. Screw what the agent says.
You draft them, they are good. You have that player on your roster for 7-8 years anyways.
Draft picks don't sign for 7-8 years.
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Goodness, this rules.
So happy for OMax. The most overshadowed player on the roster is possibly the biggest star...and he's showing it.
OMax in the afternoon, Jimmy Buckets at night.
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Draft picks don't sign for 7-8 years.
No they don't. First round picks sign for 4 years of team control. Second picks sign for 3 years of team control.
If the players are good, teams can extend to them a qualifying offer.
Players can either. (https://www.nba.com/news/free-agency-explained)
1. Accept his team’s prior qualifying offer, play out the season and become a free agent the next summer.
2. Accept his team’s maximum qualifying offer (where applicable) and play under that long-term deal.
3. Negotiate a new contract with his original team that is independent of the qualifying/max qualifying offer.
4. Sign an offer sheet with another team through March 1, which his original team has an opportunity to match (see below).
5. Negotiate a sign-and-trade if he hasn’t signed an offer sheet with another team.
6. If there is no qualifying offer, contract or offer sheet signed for one year, the original team can submit a new qualifying offer and the player will be a restricted free agent the next summer.
Seeing how its their first opportunity to make "real" nba money, and most contracts are fully guaranteed. Nearly every player pursues an option giving a 4 year deal. As an RFA, teams can match.
So unless the player comes from generational wealth, if a team drafts a player, it is up to the team whether they want them for 7 to 8 years.
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#fakenews #lies
Just because he can take two more years doesn't mean he'd be a junior. Marquette already listed him as a junior this past year.
https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/olivier-maxence-prosper/7100
His ncaa eligibility classification would most certainly be junior
What’s posted on a website no Matta. Fact is MU listed him as a frosh in 2021-22.
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From CBS Sports
2023 NBA Draft Combine notes, takeaways: Marquette's O-Max Prosper and 'No. 99' make good first impressions
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Wonder if he plays tomorrow.
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Oh, I agree. If I'm the GM of the team with the 51st pick, and I want O-Max, I'm drafting him. Not gonna let someone else get him.
Depends on the agent. If Jeff Schwartx, Mark Bartlestein or Rich Paul calls you might do him the solid. GMs do favors for agents all the time.
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Depends on the agent. If Jeff Schwartx, Mark Bartlestein or Rich Paul calls you might do him the solid. GMs do favors for agents all the time.
Former Bucks GM Jason Kidd nods in agreement.
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Depends on the agent. If Jeff Schwartx, Mark Bartlestein or Rich Paul calls you might do him the solid. GMs do favors for agents all the time.
True. Excellent point.
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Ben Steele with an update from yesterday (https://www.muscoop.com/Marquette's Olivier-Maxence Prosper has impressive showing at NBA combine in Chicago)
"After this combine, I'm going to see the feedback I get," Prosper said. "And then after that, I'm going to talk with my people and then probably make a decision after that.
"I'm just trying to embrace this. Be where my feet are right now and take this all in. And then we'll see after that.""I envisioned myself coming in here and playing with great energy," Prosper said. "Going and making hustle plays.
"Really impact the game multiple ways. Rebounding the ball. Sprinting the floor. Playing defense. And I knew if I did those things, I was going to find myself some buckets. Some dunks. Some cuts. Some offensive rebounds. Then once I am in that flow, I can catch-and-shoot threes and make plays.
"I just came in that I was going to work the hardest on the floor today. And that's how I was able to get the game that I got today."
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Quick roundup of how OMax set draft Twitter ablaze yesterday, cementing his NBA pedigree. The question is no longer will he stay in the draft, but will he move into the first round.
https://painttouches.com/2023/05/18/omax-looking-more-and-more-like-promax-marquette-nba-draft-olivier-maxence-prosper-combine/ (https://painttouches.com/2023/05/18/omax-looking-more-and-more-like-promax-marquette-nba-draft-olivier-maxence-prosper-combine/)
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#fakenews #lies
Just because he can take two more years doesn't mean he'd be a junior. Marquette already listed him as a junior this past year.
https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/olivier-maxence-prosper/7100
His ncaa eligibility classification would most certainly be junior
What’s posted on a website no Matta. Fact is MU listed him as a frosh in 2021-22.
I believe for Marquette, classification depends on how many credits the player has earned. When OMax transferred in MU likely didn't accept enough of his Clemson credits for him to be considered a soph, so he was listed as a freshman. He likely caught up credit-wise and was considered a junior this past season.
If he returns, classification on MU's page will depend on his credit count. He'll be a junior again if his credit tally falls short of what would be considered a senior.
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I believe for Marquette, classification depends on how many credits the player has earned. When OMax transferred in MU likely didn't accept enough of his Clemson credits for him to be considered a soph, so he was listed as a freshman. He likely caught up credit-wise and was considered a junior this past season.
If he returns, classification on MU's page will depend on his credit count. He'll be a junior again if his credit tally falls short of what would be considered a senior.
I have never seen a player's stated year of athletic eligibility be based on their academic progress. (And my guess is that they accepted 100% of his freshman year credits anyway.)
I think Marquette simply changed how it classifies players wrt the extra Covid year. Initially they "removed" a year so that people could tell that a four-year "junior" would have one more year of eligibility. But as people like rocky saw, they were pretty much the only school that did that. So they changed so that they "counted up" with the understanding that a "senior" may have one more year remaining.
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I was really happy to see Prosper keep up with his EGBs during the combine game. A lot of his teammates seemed to go into their own heads during stoppages/dead-balls and Prosper was constantly dapping them up and chatting.
I always thought that was something you couldn't coach in a kid, but maybe you can? Good on him either way.
I tried to come up with a good Prosper nickname working 'props' in there but it came out muddled. Go nuts, clever folks
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If you go to GOOGLE and type in 'NBA Combine' OMax is the headline of almost every page that pulls up.
That's so cool.
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I believe for Marquette, classification depends on how many credits the player has earned. When OMax transferred in MU likely didn't accept enough of his Clemson credits for him to be considered a soph, so he was listed as a freshman. He likely caught up credit-wise and was considered a junior this past season.
If he returns, classification on MU's page will depend on his credit count. He'll be a junior again if his credit tally falls short of what would be considered a senior.
This is completely made up nonsense and not true at all. Has zero to do with credits.
Btw, it’s not just OMax - they treated everyone the same. Different each year, but applied consistently to all players in each particular year.
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If you go to GOOGLE and type in 'NBA Combine' OMax is the headline of almost every page that pulls up.
That's so cool.
Damn.
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OMax has withdrawn from today's competition at the NBA Combine.
He's already shown what he's needed to. Tough to top what he did yesterday.
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OMax has withdrawn from today's competition at the NBA Combine.
He's already shown what he's needed to. Tough to top what he did yesterday.
Well that, and he needs to pick his classes for next year.
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OMax has been gowne since last summer, hey. Great young man seizing his aspirations.
"The Marquette Dream"
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Excellent report on Omax Day 1
https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2023/05/17/nba-combine-day-one-standout-prospects
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With Omax and others moving up, any reports on who's headed downward?
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https://twitter.com/libaanstar1/status/1659292358616182800?t=CG4vyQ6Dl_N-QbBeGESeVA&s=19
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Now Zach is gone. Fml
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Now Zach is gone. Fml
Old news
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Tyrese Hunter will return to Texas.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1659339623661817857?t=OodaWlZcVBpLlOJWjNkojw&s=19
(https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1659339623661817857?t=OodaWlZcVBpLlOJWjNkojw&s=19)
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The Athletic's John Hollinger has a new article on which players improved their stock the most at the Combine. A large photo of O-Max is at the top of the article, just ahead of this paragraph:
Taking top honors was Marquette forward Olivier-Maxence Prosper, a big wing who didn’t show a lot offensively this season. He scored a game-high 21 points in the first day’s scrimmage and, not shockingly, pulled out of the second day. Prosper also measured 6-6 and 3/4 in socks with a 7-1 wingspan, and uncorked a 35-inch standing vertical, the second-best leap at the event. Teams are likely to go back through his tape and ask questions – how somebody this athletic could have such low rates of blocks and steals, and whether his limited feel (just 1.3 assists per 100 possessions) will be a barrier. Nonetheless, he may have played himself into the back end of the first round.
Lots of very interesting observations in that one paragraph, including some criticism of O-Max's relative lack of production at MU and capped by the forecast of where he might be drafted. Which is much higher than most of us thought possible.
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One of the things that frustrated me about OMax last season was how he could drive into the lane almost at will and then.... stop. Didn't explode to the rim. Because everyone knew he would do a two footed jump stop, he rarely drew extra defenders. I was looking forward to watching him posterize defenders at the rim and/or start looking for open shooters or cutters. That will have to happen at the next level.
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Excellent Sports Illustrated article on Omax and potential Thunder interest
https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/news/nba-draft-olivier-maxence-prosper-offers-intriguing-two-way-potential
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The Athletic's John Hollinger has a new article on which players improved their stock the most at the Combine. A large photo of O-Max is at the top of the article, just ahead of this paragraph:
Taking top honors was Marquette forward Olivier-Maxence Prosper, a big wing who didn’t show a lot offensively this season. He scored a game-high 21 points in the first day’s scrimmage and, not shockingly, pulled out of the second day. Prosper also measured 6-6 and 3/4 in socks with a 7-1 wingspan, and uncorked a 35-inch standing vertical, the second-best leap at the event. Teams are likely to go back through his tape and ask questions – how somebody this athletic could have such low rates of blocks and steals, and whether his limited feel (just 1.3 assists per 100 possessions) will be a barrier. Nonetheless, he may have played himself into the back end of the first round.
Lots of very interesting observations in that one paragraph, including some criticism of O-Max's relative lack of production at MU and capped by the forecast of where he might be drafted. Which is much higher than most of us thought possible.
One of the things that frustrated me about OMax last season was how he could drive into the lane almost at will and then.... stop. Didn't explode to the rim. Because everyone knew he would do a two footed jump stop, he rarely drew extra defenders. I was looking forward to watching him posterize defenders at the rim and/or start looking for open shooters or cutters. That will have to happen at the next level.
Agreed on both counts. I feel like O-Max has the athletic tools to be much better than we saw at Marquette. It didn't shock me to see him at the tail-end of the too-early mock drafts last year, he just has the frame and hops to play in the league. But definitely a guy who has a lot of room to grow. Most NBA prospects wash out, and I could see that being a possibility, but if O-Max grew into an NBA starter or more, it wouldn't surprise me. All the tools are there to be very good.
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Apparently we under utilized him.
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If OMax knows that he isn’t going to return why hasn’t he announced it yet?
Good combine with good press, seems like it would be logical to announce his intention to stay in the draft shortly after in order to keep the momentum going no?
I think he has until the end of this month to decide if I’m not mistaken
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If OMax knows that he isn’t going to return why hasn’t he announced it yet?
Good combine with good press, seems like it would be logical to announce his intention to stay in the draft shortly after in order to keep the momentum going no?
I think he has until the end of this month to decide if I’m not mistaken
On the other hand, not saying anything doesn't cost him anything so why do it?
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If OMax knows that he isn’t going to return why hasn’t he announced it yet?
#slOMax
More information coming… from teams and lay of the land (eg if certain other players elect to withdraw, does that push him toward staying?
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New CBS College Basketball podcast leads with OMax’s performance at the combine.
Kyle Boone puts him into projected 1st round pick.
Amari Bailey and Olivier-Maxence Prosper among the 2023 NBA Draft Combine Winners; Emoni Bates and Zach Edey are draft unknowns (NBA Draft 05/22)
https://open.spotify.com/episode/1s51Tmbr1e1Hu1I0W8gj3w
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Kyle Boone puts him into projected 1st round pick.
He also had Banchero #3 and Justin #39 a week before the 2022 draft
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Charles Bediako staying in draft. Can’t wait for OMax to announce his return 2 #muMbb
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Jay Bee
I think that your Omax back to MU post might be brought back up in the offseason 6 years down the road.
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It'd be awesome if he stayed, but he's going to get drafted. There's no reason for him to.
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Come back, boost reb %’s and the very bizarre blk%, and feel like I’ve got a guaranteed contract a year from now
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He is not coming back to MU.
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It'd be awesome if he stayed, but he's going to get drafted. There's no reason for him to.
There are plenty of reasons.
Doesn’t mean he will stay, but it also doesn’t mean he will go, until he announces one way or the other.
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FANTA: so OMax, after such a strong showing at the NBA combine, and the apparent meteoric rise in your draft stock, why did you decide to return to MU?
OMAX: my block %. The NBA Scouts, my family, my coach, my teammates…….we all felt my block % needs alot of work…..and I feel another year in college would really help with that. ::)
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FANTA: so OMax, after such a strong showing at the NBA combine, and the apparent meteoric rise in your draft stock, why did you decide to return to MU?
OMAX: my block %. The NBA Scouts, my family, my coach, my teammates…….we all felt my block % needs alot of work…..and I feel another year in college would really help with that. ::)
yes block percentage... that stat that 100% doesn't matter unless you are a center. And even when you are a center is occasionally doesn't matter if you suck at rebounding and generating steals.
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yes block percentage... that stat that 100% doesn't matter unless you are a center. And even when you are a center is occasionally doesn't matter if you suck at rebounding and generating steals.
#FakeNews #Lies
Blk% has a stronger correlations NCAA to NBA than most other stats and has a strong relative correlation to NBA draft position, which is what we’re talking about here.
“Why doesn’t he block shots?” is a question being asked
This year, he’d be in the draft hoping to get a guaranteed contract but not sure if he will. A year demonstrating improvement could put him into a diff position next year — IF a guaranteed NBA contract is of high importance to him… there are reasons to return
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#FakeNews #Lies
Blk% has a stronger correlations NCAA to NBA than most other stats and has a strong relative correlation to NBA draft position, which is what we’re talking about here.
“Why doesn’t he block shots?” is a question being asked
This year, he’d be in the draft hoping to get a guaranteed contract but not sure if he will. A year demonstrating improvement could put him into a diff position next year — IF a guaranteed NBA contract is of high importance to him… there are reasons to return
Block % in the NCAA correlating to Block % in the NBA, does not mean it matters as much as other stats when it comes to defense.
Especially for non centers.
Block % is indicative of getting blocks.
It’s a less correlated state for defensive output than others.
Steal percentage and forcing missed shots are probably the two most important. But that fluctuates if the player is center or not.
Block percentage is a decently long way down the list of stats you look for a 3/4 wing.
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Blk% transfers and correlates to a higher draft position. For a 6’8” listed guy w a measured 7’1” wingspan, his blk% is a significant outlier.
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Blk% transfers and correlates to a higher draft position. For a 6’8” listed guy w a measured 7’1” wingspan, his blk% is a significant outlier.
But, was used a lot on the perimeter.
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But, was used a lot on the perimeter.
Significant outlier … should have said extreme outlier.
His blk% was the same as Tyler, Stevie and Kam
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Blk% no matta
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Sam Vecenie of The Athletic named O-Max as one of the two players who helped himself the most during the Combine (Belmont's Ben Sheppard was the other):
Olivier-Maxence Prosper | 6-foot-8 wing | Marquette | Ranking: No. 35
Every year, guys perform exceedingly well in the first game of the combine then decide to sit out the second game after showing out. Prosper was that player this season, scoring 21 points on 11 shots while grabbing 11 rebounds and calling it a day. Above all, Prosper just looked the part. His athleticism and size stood out.
Measuring 6-foot-6 3/4 without shoes and an enormous 7-1 wingspan, he has the ideal measurements for a defensively conscious wing. His tape at Marquette backs that up as well, where he was often used as a stopper on opposing teams’ best perimeter players, such as Connecticut’s Jordan Hawkins. It’s harder than people think to find guys with legitimate size, length and athleticism on the wing like this, especially when they have upside to shoot it. Prosper made just 34 percent of his 3s this past season and only hit one-of-five from 3 in the scrimmage, so teams will want to keep a close on eye on how that continues to develop throughout his workout circuit. Teams also generally want to see more from Prosper as a decision-maker and passer and want to learn more about his overall feel for the game.
Prosper showcased in the scrimmages that he’s comfortable handling the ball, something he didn’t get a chance to show at Marquette. He had a few moments of escape dribbles and downhill attacks. He’s not exactly a shot creator out there, but he looks to have more game attacking closeouts and getting out in transition than meets the eye. And his ability to attack downhill and cover ground quickly saw him draw 12 free-throw attempts. Mix this with the defense that we know is high level, and it’s easy to see why Prosper is someone who excites NBA teams. He’s also really smart with a professional demeanor and mindset that was impressive in front of NBA personnel last week.
Prosper came the closest to ticking just about every box he could have. If the shot would have been there and looked truly consistent and comfortable, and he would have dished out a few high-level passing reads, he might have skied further up the board for teams. Still, expect him to be a name in the mix for teams starting somewhere in the 20s, and it’s hard to see him getting beyond the early 40s at this point. There’s a big group of players jockeying for position in that range, but Prosper firmly solidified himself as one of them.
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Sam Vecenie of The Athletic named O-Max as one of the two players who helped himself the most during the Combine (Belmont's Ben Sheppard was the other):
Olivier-Maxence Prosper | 6-foot-8 wing | Marquette | Ranking: No. 35
Every year, guys perform exceedingly well in the first game of the combine then decide to sit out the second game after showing out. Prosper was that player this season, scoring 21 points on 11 shots while grabbing 11 rebounds and calling it a day. Above all, Prosper just looked the part. His athleticism and size stood out.
Measuring 6-foot-6 3/4 without shoes and an enormous 7-1 wingspan, he has the ideal measurements for a defensively conscious wing. His tape at Marquette backs that up as well, where he was often used as a stopper on opposing teams’ best perimeter players, such as Connecticut’s Jordan Hawkins. It’s harder than people think to find guys with legitimate size, length and athleticism on the wing like this, especially when they have upside to shoot it. Prosper made just 34 percent of his 3s this past season and only hit one-of-five from 3 in the scrimmage, so teams will want to keep a close on eye on how that continues to develop throughout his workout circuit. Teams also generally want to see more from Prosper as a decision-maker and passer and want to learn more about his overall feel for the game.
Prosper showcased in the scrimmages that he’s comfortable handling the ball, something he didn’t get a chance to show at Marquette. He had a few moments of escape dribbles and downhill attacks. He’s not exactly a shot creator out there, but he looks to have more game attacking closeouts and getting out in transition than meets the eye. And his ability to attack downhill and cover ground quickly saw him draw 12 free-throw attempts. Mix this with the defense that we know is high level, and it’s easy to see why Prosper is someone who excites NBA teams. He’s also really smart with a professional demeanor and mindset that was impressive in front of NBA personnel last week.
Prosper came the closest to ticking just about every box he could have. If the shot would have been there and looked truly consistent and comfortable, and he would have dished out a few high-level passing reads, he might have skied further up the board for teams. Still, expect him to be a name in the mix for teams starting somewhere in the 20s, and it’s hard to see him getting beyond the early 40s at this point. There’s a big group of players jockeying for position in that range, but Prosper firmly solidified himself as one of them.
Hmmm... If they don't mention his block % in the scrimmage it's all just damning him with faint praise.
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I don't think anyone who watched him throughout his time at Marquette is surprised to see him be able to attack a closeout and get downhill attacks. I think he just didn't get many hard closeouts because you'll live with the OMax three over his straight line drives to the rim. That's where he struggled, was teams scouted that he was a straight line driver and then got stuck once they cut the drive off. He'd stop with the ball in the middle of the lane and not really have anywhere to go with it.
Would be interesting to see if he could develop a secondary move out of the straight line drive and develop the 3 point jumper to be consistent enough to get those hard closeouts consistently, where would he wind up being drafted next year?
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I don't think anyone who watched him throughout his time at Marquette is surprised to see him be able to attack a closeout and get downhill attacks. I think he just didn't get many hard closeouts because you'll live with the OMax three over his straight line drives to the rim. That's where he struggled, was teams scouted that he was a straight line driver and then got stuck once they cut the drive off. He'd stop with the ball in the middle of the lane and not really have anywhere to go with it.
Would be interesting to see if he could develop a secondary move out of the straight line drive and develop the 3 point jumper to be consistent enough to get those hard closeouts consistently, where would he wind up being drafted next year?
Developing a consistent 3 point shot makes him a solid rotation guy. Doing that plus having more moves on the drive makes him a solid NBA starter.
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I don't think anyone who watched him throughout his time at Marquette is surprised to see him be able to attack a closeout and get downhill attacks. I think he just didn't get many hard closeouts because you'll live with the OMax three over his straight line drives to the rim. That's where he struggled, was teams scouted that he was a straight line driver and then got stuck once they cut the drive off. He'd stop with the ball in the middle of the lane and not really have anywhere to go with it.
Would be interesting to see if he could develop a secondary move out of the straight line drive and develop the 3 point jumper to be consistent enough to get those hard closeouts consistently, where would he wind up being drafted next year?
I think it is easier for the casual fan (me) to judge offense than defense. PJ Tucker can hit a corner 3 and a layup...on a good night...nothing else. I have no clue how well O-Max can guard in the NBA, but if he can do it at a PJ Tucker level...he won't need to improve anything on offense. We are all talking about his needed growth on offense, but becoming truly elite on defense is likely what he will need to improve to.
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I think it is easier for the casual fan (me) to judge offense than defense. PJ Tucker can hit a corner 3 and a layup...on a good night...nothing else. I have no clue how well O-Max can guard in the NBA, but if he can do it at a PJ Tucker level...he won't need to improve anything on offense. We are all talking about his needed growth on offense, but becoming truly elite on defense is likely what he will need to improve to.
But is his shoe game as cold as PJ's?
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I think it is easier for the casual fan (me) to judge offense than defense. PJ Tucker can hit a corner 3 and a layup...on a good night...nothing else. I have no clue how well O-Max can guard in the NBA, but if he can do it at a PJ Tucker level...he won't need to improve anything on offense. We are all talking about his needed growth on offense, but becoming truly elite on defense is likely what he will need to improve to.
This is true. I think OMax will have to live in the weight room if he's going to defend like PJ Tucker.
Also, PJ was a pretty big time scorer in college.
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This is true. I think OMax will have to live in the weight room if he's going to defend like PJ Tucker.
Also, PJ was a pretty big time scorer in college.
He averaged 13 pts a game in college
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He averaged 13 pts a game in college
Yup. He averaged 16.1 his junior season (last year in college). I'd consider that to be a pretty big time scorer in the college game. Just like I'd Kam to have been a pretty big time scorer last year at 15.1 ppg.
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This is true. I think OMax will have to live in the weight room if he's going to defend like PJ Tucker.
Also, PJ was a pretty big time scorer in college.
For sure...that type of physical development is likely more important to his ability to have a long career than being able to get to the rim off the dribble, etc. He's going to be able to have to guard 3 to 4 different positions on any given night at a high level. He has the athleticism and length, seems to have the desire, will need to improve his strength. Seems like he's off to a solid start...great for him and for MU.
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Yup. He averaged 16.1 his junior season (last year in college). I'd consider that to be a pretty big time scorer in the college game. Just like I'd Kam to have been a pretty big time scorer last year at 15.1 ppg.
I guess you and I have different definitions of "big time"
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Pretty obvious at this point, but O-Max all but confirms he’s leaving in this new interview clip: https://twitter.com/BryanKalbrosky/status/1661798974657818626
Speaks as if it’s a foregone conclusion he’ll be in the league next year.
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Pretty obvious at this point, but O-Max all but confirms he’s leaving in this new interview clip: https://twitter.com/BryanKalbrosky/status/1661798974657818626
Speaks as if it’s a foregone conclusion he’ll be in the league next year.
Sounds to me like Shaka ran him off like Shaka ran Jimmy off as an alum.
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I guess you and I have different definitions of "big time"
He was the leading scorer on a Texas team that included LaMarcus Aldridge, won the Big 12, and got to the Elite 8.
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I guess you and I have different definitions of "big time"
There were a total of 3 players who averaged more than PJ Tucker's junior year 16.1 ppg in the Big East this past season. And two of the three were at 16.4 and 16.2. College isn’t the NBA where players off the bench are averaging 20 a game.
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There were a total of 3 players who averaged more than PJ Tucker's junior year 16.1 ppg in the Big East this past season. And two of the three were at 16.4 and 16.2. It's not the NBA where players off the bench are averaging 20 a game.
In 2005-2006, there were over 150 players who averaged more than 16.1 ppg.
https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/stats/2006/Averages/Qualified/All/Season/All/points/desc/2 (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/stats/2006/Averages/Qualified/All/Season/All/points/desc/2)
Again we have different definitions of big time. From my recollection, PJ was tough as nails, and played bully ball, despite being undersized.
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In 2005-2006, there were over 150 players who averaged more than 16.1 ppg.
https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/stats/2006/Averages/Qualified/All/Season/All/points/desc/2 (https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/stats/2006/Averages/Qualified/All/Season/All/points/desc/2)
Again we have different definitions of big time. From my recollection, PJ was tough as nails, and played bully ball, despite being undersized.
Which is why I said “pretty big time.” He wasn’t someone who scored 20 a game when he walked into the gym. But he was the 6th leading scorer in the Big Twelve. He was a pretty big time scorer.
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Pretty obvious at this point, but O-Max all but confirms he’s leaving in this new interview clip: https://twitter.com/BryanKalbrosky/status/1661798974657818626
Speaks as if it’s a foregone conclusion he’ll be in the league next year.
Why would he not speak that way even if he’s still on the fence?
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It is unfortunate they did not talk in detail about his very bizarre blk%
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It is unfortunate they did not talk in detail about his very bizarre blk%
It's the only thing holding him back. NBA GMs can't stop discussing it.
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Pretty obvious at this point, but O-Max all but confirms he’s leaving in this new interview clip: https://twitter.com/BryanKalbrosky/status/1661798974657818626
Speaks as if it’s a foregone conclusion he’ll be in the league next year.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/omax-prosper-interview-nba-draft-sleepers-marquette
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Why would he not speak that way even if he’s still on the fence?
Are you really the guy to ask that question?
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Are you really the guy to ask that question?
Haha……whats that old saying we used to say as kids? Takes one…
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https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1662077696527204352?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
He gowne
Good luck and thank you, OMax! You’ll be remembered as one of the dudes that started the Marquette basketball renaissance
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Now, we hope he gets into round 1
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Happy for O-Max, grateful for what he did for the program, and I'll be rooting for him.
Now ...
Hey Shaka, what's shakin'?
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There are a couple in the portal that are interesting, but do you want to shake things up? Still would be fine with a limited minutes big as an add
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Would have been fun to have him back, but I think it's been clear for a while he was gowne.
I think there are some long term benefits to this in that he has shown that you can go to MU, buy in completely, not necessarily be a star, and still make it into the 1st round (hopefully). A great example that Shaka's system and guys with NBA aspirations are not incompatible.
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I'm in the "I trust Shaka" camp. If he goes after and lands a transfer -- be it a wing to actually replace O-Max or a backup big -- I'll just figure Shaka believes the player will be the right fit for next season's team. If not, I'll accept that Shaka believes next season's team can be a legit contender as is.
Either way, I see no reason for any of the optimists here to lower our expectations.
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The important question is, are we cheering for OMax to be successful post-Marquette? I need to know in advance
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There are a couple in the portal that are interesting, but do you want to shake things up? Still would be fine with a limited minutes big as an add
Nope, I think we have our squad. I’ve seen nothing to suggest Shaka is poking around the portal
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. Book your tee times for Scottsdale now
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The important question is, are we cheering for OMax to be successful post-Marquette? I need to know in advance
If he steps foot in MSOE’s gym, eff em
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The important question is, are we cheering for OMax to be successful post-Marquette? I need to know in advance
I am. I like occasionally being right with an early prediction.
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The important question is, are we cheering for OMax to be successful post-Marquette? I need to know in advance
Handy flow chart:
Did he compete at another college post MU?
| \
Yes No
| \
| You can cheer for him!!
|
Was his transfer due to a letter-writing campaign?
| \
Yes No
| \
| Sorry, you cannot cheer for him.
|
Is the player white?
| \
Yes No
| \
| Sorry, you cannot cheer for him.
|
You can cheer for him!!!
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Good luck to OMax. Hoping there are many more early entrants to come in the upcoming years
Dream transfers: one of Burton, Phillips, Nkamhoua, Kaluma, or Nelson (in that order)
Backup bigs: Bandaogo, Yetna, Pal, Gordon, Miranda, Etienne
Under the radar guys: Supreme Cook, Jalon Moore
Nigel Burris really intrigues me as a long term addition. Same with Anthony Dell'Orso.
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OMax is going to have a long professional career. Best of luck to him. Nothing but gratitude for his work at Marquette
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Nope, I think we have our squad. I’ve seen nothing to suggest Shaka is poking around the portal
You might be right, but how do you know if he's poking around or not? Two years ago, did you see anything to suggest that Shaka was about to land O-Max from the portal?
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Great news for MU’s program , more guys in The NBA is a good thing. Our next guys up are going to do a great job.
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It is hard to imagine that Shaka would keep 2 open scholarships open next year. I would hope there is one kid that wants to play in his system.
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The deafening silence from OMax about Marquette and the staff says an awful lot, imo
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The deafening silence from OMax about Marquette and the staff says an awful lot, imo
At least his mommy didn't whine about "smoke and mirrors."
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It has been reported that OMax snubbed a Barb high five. It was obviously intentional.
It's the Vander Bluification of Marquette, and I'm not happy to see it unfold.
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Good luck to OMax. Hoping there are many more early entrants to come in the upcoming years
Dream transfers: one of Burton, Phillips, Nkamhoua, Kaluma, or Nelson (in that order)
Backup bigs: Bandaogo, Yetna, Pal, Gordon, Miranda, Etienne
Under the radar guys: Supreme Cook, Jalon Moore
Nigel Burris really intrigues me as a long term addition. Same with Anthony Dell'Orso.
That's really really high for Burton.
I could see 3rd. He should be behind the Tennessee guys.
I have him 5th, below Kaluma and also.. David Jones, but Jones is that sleep guy.
Bandaogo is already at Cinci.
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BC Hoopster
I would be shocked if addition(s) are not made. I am looking forward to hearing some good news.
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You might be right, but how do you know if he's poking around or not? Two years ago, did you see anything to suggest that Shaka was about to land O-Max from the portal?
Exactly.
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Good for O-Max and ultimately good for Shaka/Marquette. Win, win.
Congrats, hope O-Max moves into round 1.
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I love the fact that Marquette is out of the darkness and putting out legit first round nba talent again. It’s good to be back.
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Good for O-Max and ultimately good for Shaka/Marquette. Win, win.
Congrats, hope O-Max moves into round 1.
Yes. But we still need an immediate counter Lenny to mitigate this loss. We have a prime-time opportunity this season to inflict damage, a.k.a. making a run to a F4 and our 2nd chip. We must find a glass cleaner and more importantly a 6'6+ guy that can guard multiple positions and fill this void. Offensively we're fine but get a high octane guy on the defensive end that can lead us to the promised land.
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Yes. But we still need an immediate counter Lenny to mitigate this loss. We have a prime-time opportunity this season to inflict damage, a.k.a. making a run to a F4 and our 2nd chip. We must find a glass cleaner and more importantly a 6'6+ guy that can guard multiple positions and fill this void. Offensively we're fine but get a high octane guy on the defensive end that can lead us to the promised land.
We're not going to find a glass cleaner AND a wing defender. I'd be shocked if that occurred.
Be happy if Shaka decides and is able to add either of those types of guys considering his approach to the portal/NIL.
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Rothstein makes it easy to poke fun at times, but this Tweet had me all giddy and excited.
"A year ago, Marquette lost Justin Lewis and Darryl Morsell.
The Golden Eagles were better.
Today, they lost Olivier-Maxence Prosper.
Enter David Joplin.
Shaka Smart's squad remains SIXTH in the ROTHSTEIN 45."
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Rothstein makes it easy to poke fun at times, but this Tweet had me all giddy and excited.
"A year ago, Marquette lost Justin Lewis and Darryl Morsell.
The Golden Eagles were better.
Today, they lost Olivier-Maxence Prosper.
Enter David Joplin.
Shaka Smart's squad remains SIXTH in the ROTHSTEIN 45."
What’s funny about that ?
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What’s funny about that ?
He didn't say it was funny.
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What’s funny about that ?
Nothing
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Ben Steele with this today
Marquette's Olivier-Maxence Prosper staying in NBA draft. He could be a first-round pick. (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/05/26/marquettes-olivier-maxence-prosper-is-staying-in-the-nba-draft/70260139007/)
"Thank you Marquette nation, my coaches, my teammates and support staff for embracing me from day one," Prosper said in a statement. "My time at Marquette has been incredible."
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Nothing
That’s what I thought
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It’s always great to watch an MU player get the opportunity to pursue their dreams in the NBA, even if it doesn’t always pan out as they hope.
If Al could support Jim Chones leaving early for the ABA, MU fans should all support OMax darting for the NBA.
Also, it’s effing insane that we had an NBA first rounder on our roster who went completely unnoticed in the Big East awards because he was overshadowed by this teammates. We’ll be totally fine next season. In Shaka I trust.
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That’s what I thought
I never said anything was funny about it.
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The starting lineup last year had elite defensive efficiency last year.
That same lineup but subbing Jop in for OMax (the most likely starting lineup this year) was atrocious defensively last year.
Need to add a defensive wing if we want to compete for a BE title and/or deep March run.
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Congrats to OMax. I don’t think he is ready to contribute yet, but the work ethic is there to succeed.
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The starting lineup last year had elite defensive efficiency last year.
That same lineup but subbing Jop in for OMax (the most likely starting lineup this year) was atrocious defensively last year.
Need to add a defensive wing if we want to compete for a BE title and/or deep March run.
The key is "last year".
Shaka trusts development. Next man up with the guys they have coming back and Freshman incoming.
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I never said anything was funny about it.
Yep - keep it that way
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The key is "last year".
Shaka trusts development. Next man up with the guys they have coming back and Freshman incoming.
do you know Shaka? Has he told you he ‘trusts development’?
Hoping ‘development’ is enough to beat RED and win a few NCAA tournament games. Omax will be difficult to replace.
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Hoping ‘development’ is enough to beat RED and win a few NCAA tournament games. Omax will be difficult to replace.
Spoken like a true snake.
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Yep - keep it that way
Lmao. What?
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Yes. But we still need an immediate counter Lenny to mitigate this loss. We have a prime-time opportunity this season to inflict damage, a.k.a. making a run to a F4 and our 2nd chip. We must find a glass cleaner and more importantly a 6'6+ guy that can guard multiple positions and fill this void. Offensively we're fine but get a high octane guy on the defensive end that can lead us to the promised land.
Check the portal and lemme know, I'll give you Shaka's cell phone number.
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do you know Shaka? Has he told you he ‘trusts development’?
Hoping ‘development’ is enough to beat RED and win a few NCAA tournament games. Omax will be difficult to replace.
Big brother doesn't care about little brother.
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Omax 28th in this mock:
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2023-nba-mock-draft-scoot-henderson-goes-no-3-but-may-not-be-playing-for-trail-blazers/
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https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1666140177771925504
Omax moving up everywhere.
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https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1666140177771925504
Omax moving up everywhere.
Seems high for our sixth best player last year
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Seems high for our sixth best player last year
OMax is a kid that is easy for an NBA Scout to fall in love with. Has the Height , Length and Weight for the position. Hustle, intensity and non stop motor is hard to find. Finally, my guess he will do extremely well in the interviews. Comes off as mature well adjusted young man.
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Last year, watching the playoffs, was when I realized that OMax was a better fit for the NBA than Justin. And why I am more optimistic about Oso and Ben than I am about the guards. It is all about speed and size and match ups. Sure, Sam has a skill that has kept him on an NBA roster. How much did he play when it matters? I can picture OMax guarding Murray or Butler and switching onto Gordon or Martin. Easily.
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I think the 30th pick in the draft gets about $3.7 guaranteed over two years.
This year the third year team-option was a bit over $2 million.
The 4th year team-option has a big salary bump. Probably in the $3-$4 million range if option is picked up.
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I think the 30th pick in the draft gets about $3.7 guaranteed over two years.
$4.1M
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Seems high for our sixth best player last year
wait... you can hate Omax a fair bit, and maybe even call him the 5th best. But 6th is ridiculous.
Who was better?
Joplin couldn't make layups last year and was still by far our worst defender outside the freshmen, and Chase Ross didn't add anything on offense. He made Stevie Mitchell look like a creator.
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Interesting tweet (https://twitter.com/Pacers/status/1668974068601683969?s=20) from the Indiana Pacers.
"I think the biggest thing is just the way I play the game," Prosper said following his pre-draft workout with the Pacers on Tuesday. "The way I compete, how hard I work out there, my energy on the floor, the way I play this game.
"And also I feel like I'm starting to show more how consistent of a shooter I am and also how improved my ball-handling is, something that I didn't really show in college. That's something that opened the eyes of a lot of NBA front offices."
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https://sports.yahoo.com/olivier-maxence-prosper-takes-lot-035601295.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADLjx6_JZympCcgLyFw4nrztP8achbccaBsTGwpdPaGUJ4zwDYz2Z04xwyOTfUYTFM4Q0jOrFbZY2RAcLc32jVFfxwdEEQHMcrZ4T1LX4RQrWBrE1AEeadDguoYQh9-SF6WKQ_uk3pk9_EqRVYybr_IYAH4XixbqWEoKPfuKB7sW
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https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1669891008245428234?s=61&t=wgUwm0DPqQ_DG9GFbwWQ4w
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Interesting tweet (https://twitter.com/Pacers/status/1668974068601683969?s=20) from the Indiana Pacers.
"I think the biggest thing is just the way I play the game," Prosper said following his pre-draft workout with the Pacers on Tuesday. "The way I compete, how hard I work out there, my energy on the floor, the way I play this game.
"And also I feel like I'm starting to show more how consistent of a shooter I am and also how improved my ball-handling is, something that I didn't really show in college. That's something that opened the eyes of a lot of NBA front offices."
The embedded video interview is worth watching
https://www.nba.com/pacers/news/athletic-forward-prosper-prospering-in-pre-draft-setting
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Could he conceivably go late 1st?
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Could he conceivably go late 1st?
I hope so
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Could he conceivably go late 1st?
24th, I think, in the most recent mock from The Athletic. Although Vecenie has been consistently high on him for a while.
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24th, I think, in the most recent mock from The Athletic. Although Vecenie has been consistently high on him for a while.
And they had his range 18-35. Miami owns the 18th pick if they don't trade it for Beal, Dame, etc. That would be a great landing spot for him style-wise (and MU connection-wise)
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24th, I think, in the most recent mock from The Athletic. Although Vecenie has been consistently high on him for a while.
#24 to Sacramento would be perfect.
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Mr. Cain nailed it. Thank you. He said: OMax is a kid that is easy for an NBA Scout to fall in love to with. Has the Height , Length and Weight for the position. Hustle, intensity and non stop motor is hard find. Finally, my guess he will do extremely well in the interviews. Comes off as mature well adjusted young man.
I thought he look Mr. ed like Dennis Rodman on roller skates last year and I expected him to be a better rebounder because of his size and athleticism. I can attribute that to the MU offense because they run a triangle and left Omax out on the edge and not in the paint like a push butt team. I understand that. He hit big shots and had a tip in or two that helped MU win games.
When he gets drafted (in the 2nd round) he will develop even more as he puts on some weight and muscle to push opponents chest to chest. MU will surely miss him. He played big last year. This Oso and Gold will be big enough and there will be 6'7" guys who will crash the boards. Don’t be discouraged my friends. I know it's hard when other teams throw a good big at you, but if you play team ball and defense and run you will win.
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Mr. Cain nailed it. Thank you. He said: OMax is a kid that is easy for an NBA Scout to fall in love to with. Has the Height , Length and Weight for the position. Hustle, intensity and non stop motor is hard find. Finally, my guess he will do extremely well in the interviews. Comes off as mature well adjusted young man.
I thought he look Mr. ed like Dennis Rodman on roller skates last year and I expected him to be a better rebounder because of his size and athleticism. I can attribute that to the MU offense because they run a triangle and left Omax out on the edge and not in the paint like a push butt team. I understand that. He hit big shots and had a tip in or two that helped MU win games.
When he gets drafted (in the 2nd round) he will develop even more as he puts on some weight and muscle to push opponents chest to chest. MU will surely miss him. He played big last year. This Oso and Gold will be big enough and there will be 6'7" guys who will crash the boards. Don’t be discouraged my friends. I know it's hard when other teams throw a good big at you, but if you play team ball and defense and run you will win.
Dont disagree at all. But who are all these 6’7” guys you speak of? Yes, David Joplin. Al Amadou is a skinny 6’’9” youngster who will likely be pushed around until he physically matures. Could definitely use another 6’7”+ guy.
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Mr. Cain nailed it. Thank you. He said: OMax is a kid that is easy for an NBA Scout to fall in love to with. Has the Height , Length and Weight for the position. Hustle, intensity and non stop motor is hard find. Finally, my guess he will do extremely well in the interviews. Comes off as mature well adjusted young man.
I thought he look Mr. ed like Dennis Rodman on roller skates last year and I expected him to be a better rebounder because of his size and athleticism. I can attribute that to the MU offense because they run a triangle and left Omax out on the edge and not in the paint like a push butt team. I understand that. He hit big shots and had a tip in or two that helped MU win games.
When he gets drafted (in the 2nd round) he will develop even more as he puts on some weight and muscle to push opponents chest to chest. MU will surely miss him. He played big last year. This Oso and Gold will be big enough and there will be 6'7" guys who will crash the boards. Don’t be discouraged my friends. I know it's hard when other teams throw a good big at you, but if you play team ball and defense and run you will win.
Not the least bit discouraged. Happy for O-Max, it’s good for the program to show it can produce NBA players, and MU’s gonna have a great season.
We Are Marquette!
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Dont disagree at all. But who are all these 6’7” guys you speak of? Yes, David Joplin. Al Amadou is a skinny 6’’9” youngster who will likely be pushed around until he physically matures. Could definitely use another 6’7”+ guy.
I agree Nuke.
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Marquette will go where Kam Jones takes them. It's all up to him. Obviously, with help from his friends. As always, the shooter in the triangle is the key. Shaka will teach defense. Scoring more points than your opponent means you're getting more attempts and hitting a higher percentage of your shots. It will come down to that. Cheers. Happy Father's Day everyone.
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Marquette will go where Kam Jones takes them. It's all up to him. Obviously, with help from his friends. As always, the shooter in the triangle is the key. Shaka will teach defense. Scoring more points than your opponent means you're getting more attempts and hitting a higher percentage of your shots. It will come down to that. Cheers. Happy Father's Day everyone.
Should he lower the arc on his Kiss the Sky J in your opinion? What are you thinking oilcan stat wise? 19ppg range? 47% or so from downtown?
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No I don't think he should lower the trajectory of his his shot. It's all about rhythm and release. Jimmy suffered in the playoffs because he starting shooting flat liners to the rim. No arc. Kam has the green light to shoot it every time down the court. But he plays in the offense because he understands the strategy of making other players better. Kam will average 25 ppg almost every night this year and his behind the arc pct should get to the high forties. He drives, he does it all. He's going to have an outstanding year. Tyler dishes assists and Kam scores. It will be fun to watch.
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No I don't think he should lower the trajectory of his his shot. It's all about rhythm and release. Jimmy suffered in the playoffs because he starting shooting flat liners to the rim. No arc. Kam has the green light to shoot it every time down the court. But he plays in the offense because he understands the strategy of making other players better. Kam will average 25 ppg almost every night this year and his behind the arc pct should get to the high forties. He drives, he does it all. He's going to have an outstanding year. Tyler dishes assists and Kam scores. It will be fun to watch.
25?? How many ppg do you think we'll average? I'm hoping he can increase his rebs per game.
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Kam better significantly improve his accuracy from last year because he will be the most inefficient 25 ppg scorer in the history of the game otherwise.
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Plus, if he shoots that much, half the board will turn on him.
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Kam better significantly improve his accuracy from last year because he will be the most inefficient 25 ppg scorer in the history of the game otherwise.
Kam's overall efficiency wasn't bad last year but he could be streaky. I'm hoping he can get his 3pt% in the 45% range and get to the line a bit more. I think 19ppg is quite possible.
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Kam's overall efficiency wasn't bad last year but he could be streaky. I'm hoping he can get his 3pt% in the 45% range and get to the line a bit more. I think 19ppg is quite possible.
No doubt about that.
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I think MU has a great opportunity to be electric on the offensive end and put together impactful barrages more consistently. Don't sleep on the growth all of our guys can make. Obviously Gold is a key and losing O-Max is tough but I think we will be alright.
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I just rewatched the Baylor game. Wow that was fun.
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Did Markus Howard shoot too much? Oh no--- I don't want to get you guys all riled up tonight. Kam will get his fair share and then some.
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Markus Howard shot too much but was a better shooter from distance than Kam.
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Did Markus Howard shoot too much? Oh no--- I don't want to get you guys all riled up tonight. Kam will get his fair share and then some.
Oilcan,
We have tremendous guard depth. Kam will be our #1 scorer but I fully expect Ross to take a major jump (no pun intended). Jop will also get more opportunities and the man is exceedingly dangerous in rhythm. If he improves his handles a bit this is an X-Factor/Hammer player for us. The young man can score as Purdue found out on their home floor.
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Very few guys shoot 45% from 3
I’d be thrilled if Kam shot 40%.
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Very few guys shoot 45% from 3
I’d be thrilled if Kam shot 40%.
That's fair. I think we have a number of guys capable of draining the trifecta. Hopefully several can be at the 40% Clio or more.
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Hopefully OMax can also hit at a 40% clip when he returns to MU to work on his Blk%
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Let's pump the brakes on the expectations for Kam... Here's the list of all high-major players in the last 10 seasons to average 19ppg on 40% from three:
Player Year PPG 3FG% 3PA/GM
Cade Cunningham 2020-21 20.1 .400 5.7
Luka Garza 2020-21 24.1 .440 3.2
Markus Howard 2019-20 27.8 .412 10.1
Payton Pritchard 2019-20 20.5 .415 6.8
Markus Howard 2018-19 25.0 .403 8.8
Markus Howard 2017-18 20.4 .404 8.1
Andrew Rowsey 2017-18 20.5 .415 8.6
Marcus Foster 2017-18 19.8 .413 7.0
Trevon Bluiett 2017-18 19.3 .417 7.2
Jerome Robinson 2017-18 20.7 .409 5.7
Tony Carr 2017-18 19.6 .433 5.5
Aaron Holiday 2017-18 20.3 .429 6.2
Luke Kennard 2016-17 19.5 .438 5.4
Frank Mason 2016-17 20.9 .471 4.8
Markelle Fultz 2016-17 23.2 .413 5.0
Andrew Andrews 2015-16 20.9 .401 5.6
Buddy Hield 2015-16 25.0 .457 8.7
Grayson Allen 2015-16 21.6 .417 6.0
Denzel Valentine 2015-16 19.2 .444 7.5
Jamal Murray 2015-16 20.0 .408 7.7
D'Angelo Russell 2014-15 19.3 .411 6.6
Doug McDermott 2013-14 26.7 .449 6.1
Jabari Brown 2013-14 19.9 .410 5.6
(Kam scored 15.1 PPG with .360 3FG% on 7.7 3PA/GM last year)
Remember the NCAA pushed the 3 point line back after between the 2018-19 and 2019-20 seasons, making this achievement more difficult in the last 4 seasons.
Some of the numbers suggested in this thread (25ppg on 47% from 3?!) would be historically great offensive seasons. I think Kam can get to 19ppg or 40% from 3. Both at the same time is probably a reach.
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Having joplin kolek and kam all hitting at 40 would be monstrous.
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Kam's most effective offense isn't from distance. It's when it puts the ball on the floor and gets to the basket. It's why he has a higher EFG than Markus at this point in his career.
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Kam's most effective offense isn't from distance. It's when it puts the ball on the floor and gets to the basket. It's why he has a higher EFG than Markus at this point in his career.
yep, so much so that Kam probably has to get to the line more, shoot better from the line, or shoot better from three to maintain his personal efficiency.
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yep, so much so that Kam probably has to get to the line more, shoot better from the line, or shoot better from three to maintain his personal efficiency.
#FTsNoMatta
Had he shot an avg FT%, he would have scored less than 4 additional points all year.
GETTING TO THE LINE, though, yes. Big opportunity for his growth
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Let's pump the brakes on the expectations for Kam... Here's the list of all high-major players in the last 10 seasons to average 19ppg on 40% from three:
And here's a list of Marquette players who have ever averaged 25 ppg:
Markus Howard
For those who have suggested 19 ppg ... that may be doable. Love Kam and expecting great things from him next season. I'm not expecting 25 ppg - but would obviously love to be surprised.
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Kam's most effective offense isn't from distance. It's when it puts the ball on the floor and gets to the basket. It's why he has a higher EFG than Markus at this point in his career.
Just to clarify…..you meant he has a better efg% now then Markus had for his career…….if you compare first 2 years to first 2 years……Markus had a higher efg%.
In his last 2 seasons Markus took almost as many 2 point shots as 3 pointers……because of his size he had a much more difficult time finishing those shots…….in his sophomore season he shot 53% on his twos which was impressive.
When you bring free throws into the mix ….TS%…. Markus was higher then Kam,is currently.
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MU listed Prosper at 230 lbs
According to this he weighed 212 at the combine……..just a little inflated.
https://twitter.com/nbadraftnet/status/1670839051530960896?s=61&t=zFSw_hvfi8FYxRkq8Mbc5g
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MU listed Prosper at 230 lbs
According to this he weighed 212 at the combine……..just a little inflated.
https://twitter.com/nbadraftnet/status/1670839051530960896?s=61&t=zFSw_hvfi8FYxRkq8Mbc5g
College player’s heights and weights are often inflated.
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College player’s heights and weights are often inflated.
I’m aware…..but 212 to 230 seems …….stay puft marshmallow man inflated……
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I’m aware…..but 212 to 230 seems …….stay puft marshmallow man inflated……
Must have gotten off the Real Chili.
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Must have gotten off the Real Chili.
Fire Todd Smith
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Today was first time ive really looked at mock drafts extensively.
Omax in the first round of 5 out of the 6 i saw just off googling 2023 nba mock draft.
Seems like a really good bet he does get that 1st round contact.
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MU listed Prosper at 230 lbs
According to this he weighed 212 at the combine……..just a little inflated.
https://twitter.com/nbadraftnet/status/1670839051530960896?s=61&t=zFSw_hvfi8FYxRkq8Mbc5g
Easy to drop pounds once you stop eating that Sodexo slop
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Today was first time ive really looked at mock drafts extensively.
Omax in the first round of 5 out of the 6 i saw just off googling 2023 nba mock draft.
Seems like a really good bet he does get that 1st round contact.
Omax had to have been given a guarantee by a team otherwise why stay in the draft?
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Omax had to have been given a guarantee by a team otherwise why stay in the draft?
Ask Justin
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At this point, I think it's more likely that OMax goes in the first round than he doesn't get drafted. Been saying it since last season, OMax has the tools that the NBA lusts after
Yeah my post was a little hyperbolic. Just trying to convey the confidence I have in OMax getting drafted
Damn, shoulda stuck to my guns. Congrats to Omax!
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Excellent article on Omax. Mavs scouted him at Big East Tournament
https://www.mavs.com/omax-drafted/
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Excellent article on Omax. Mavs scouted him at Big East Tournament
https://www.mavs.com/omax-drafted/
Very little in there about his time at MU.
Like ESPN, the refs and the NCAAT committee, the Mavs hate Marquette.
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OMax's trajectory seems to be positive towards getting drafted. I think he gets picked up in the second round.
These guns?
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These guns?
That was May 13. The post I quoted was the end of May 15. I wonder if anything happened between those two posts that gave new information....
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That was May 13. The post I quoted was the end of May 15. I wonder if anything happened between those two posts that gave new information....
Thats the point.
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https://t.co/nVDV1bmTxY
Givony’s 2024 draft board has TKO at #53. I’d probably put Oso a hair ahead of him, but Kolek is way overlooked in Consensus Scoop Projections™️. I think he could work his way into the first round if he takes another step forward with his jumper.
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https://t.co/nVDV1bmTxY
Givony’s 2024 draft board has TKO at #53. I’d probably put Oso a hair ahead of him, but Kolek is way overlooked in Consensus Scoop Projections™️. I think he could work his way into the first round if he takes another step forward with his jumper.
Hope his block % improves
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Needs to work on creating going to his right.
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Hope his block % improves
Smart NBA GMs use Blk% as their first sort.
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Needs to work on creating going to his right.
I agree with this analysis
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Was Theo John’s block % 1st round worthy? Asking for a friend.
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Trayce Jackson Davis blocked everything in sight.
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Remember the 2014 MU Scoop Meme Tournament that ended with an anti-climatic championship game between Haikus and Tanned Tommy? The pain of watching “Mbakwe” and his legendary Scoop Thread lose in the final four still haunts me to this day.
Anyway…
Low Blk% would be a legitimate Sweet Sixteen contender if ever there were to be a rebirth of the MU Scoop Meme tournament.
Maybe a ten year anniversary tournament?
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Yes, it’s important for Tyler to become a better shooter. He doesn’t have to be the scorer because he has a number of good shooters around him. Making assists makes the whole offense easier. But if the clock is winding down he might have to shoot and make clutch shots. It would be nice if he could shoot outside like Rousey. And light it up once in a while. Shooting like Markus Howard is not a possibility. He was one of a kind. Don’t worry about where he would go in the draft next year. If he wants to play in the NBA he will need to shoot better because the league is changing and point guards who can’t shoot won’t get the same attention that they have for so long. Come this fall, he will do everything better. It will be fun to watch. Trust me.
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Yes, it’s important for Tyler to become a better shooter. He doesn’t have to be the scorer because he has a number of good shooters around him. Making assists makes the whole offense easier. But if the clock is winding down he might have to shoot and make clutch shots. It would be nice if he could shoot outside like Rousey. And light it up once in a while. Shooting like Markus Howard is not a possibility. He was one of a kind. Don’t worry about where he would go in the draft next year. If he wants to play in the NBA he will need to shoot better because the league is changing and point guards who can’t shoot won’t get the same attention that they have for so long. Come this fall, he will do everything better. It will be fun to watch. Trust me.
Last year, Tyler Kolek was a better three point shooter than anyone on the team save Joplin. And he was third in attempts so it’s not as though he didn’t shoot them a lot.
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I believe our eFG% will be challenged to repeat.
But, blk% should rise
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And did I forget to say he makes so many lay ups and floaters? He steals the ball and makes lay ups. He is one of a kind, in a different way.
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I believe our eFG% will be challenged to repeat.
But, blk% should rise
My hope is Kam becomes more consistent from deep.
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Me too. And he should. I kinda stuck my neck out a week or two ago and said I expected him to score 25 points a game and shoot in the high forties. I think it's possible. 25 is probably too far out there, right? Still, he will have a green light to shoot all around the arc, and his pct will improve in the triangle. And he's so confidant. That is the key to shooting besides rhythm and release. Confidence will get you to anywhere you want to go. And effort. I just think he's a good kid. A hard worker and a team player.
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https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/platform/amp/2023/6/26/23771793/nba-draft-2023-what-dallas-mavericks-are-getting-olivier-maxence-prosper
Elite defender, elite athlete, poor shot blocker, poor passer.
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Me too. And he should. I kinda stuck my neck out a week or two ago and said I expected him to score 25 points a game and shoot in the high forties. I think it's possible. 25 is probably too far out there, right? Still, he will have a green light to shoot all around the arc, and his pct will improve in the triangle. And he's so confidant. That is the key to shooting besides rhythm and release. Confidence will get you to anywhere you want to go. And effort. I just think he's a good kid. A hard worker and a team player.
Kinda hope not. Kam's productivity went up when he stopped taking ill-advised 3's, became more selective, and mixed in his drives and spin moves.
"Green light" is a bit too close to Markus' "ultimate green light" which gives me a mild case of PTSD.
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Yes, it’s important for Tyler to become a better shooter. He doesn’t have to be the scorer because he has a number of good shooters around him. Making assists makes the whole offense easier. But if the clock is winding down he might have to shoot and make clutch shots. It would be nice if he could shoot outside like Rousey. And light it up once in a while. Shooting like Markus Howard is not a possibility. He was one of a kind. Don’t worry about where he would go in the draft next year. If he wants to play in the NBA he will need to shoot better because the league is changing and point guards who can’t shoot won’t get the same attention that they have for so long. Come this fall, he will do everything better. It will be fun to watch. Trust me.
The number one tool that needs to be developed is to use his non-dominant (right hand). That will make him very hard to defend and allow for even more creativity
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Hard pass on Kam or anyone on #mubb averaging 20 ppg next year. Sanogo led the BE at 17 / ppg in '22-'23. Zach Eddy & Drew Timme were the only winning players above 20 last season. The strength of Shaka's / Nevada's offense is read and react, that means all 5 are scoring.
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Hard pass on Kam or anyone on #mubb averaging 20 ppg next year. Sanogo led the BE at 17 / ppg in '22-'23. Zach Eddy & Drew Timme were the only winning players above 20 last season. The strength of Shaka's / Nevada's offense is read and react, that means all 5 are scoring.
Gonna be difficult for Kam to score that much when his roomie is taking all the shots, a1na
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The Lens
I think there are three guys that potentially could score 20pp, Kam, Joplin and Kolek. I would not be a bit surprised if Joplin or Kolek got close to that number.
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The Lens
I think there are three guys that potentially could score 20pp, Kam, Joplin and Kolek. I would not be a bit surprised if Joplin or Kolek got close to that number.
They absolutely can, i just don't think in a Shaka / Nevada offense that they will. We may have a 20 points scorer every game, it will just be a different player each night.
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They absolutely can, i just don't think in a Shaka / Nevada offense that they will. We may have a 20 points scorer every game, it will just be a different player each night.
This. The open look takes the shot.
(PS…….It wont be a 15’ jumper from Oso).
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Me too. And he should. I kinda stuck my neck out a week or two ago and said I expected him to score 25 points a game and shoot in the high forties. I think it's possible. 25 is probably too far out there, right? Still, he will have a green light to shoot all around the arc, and his pct will improve in the triangle. And he's so confidant. That is the key to shooting besides rhythm and release. Confidence will get you to anywhere you want to go. And effort. I just think he's a good kid. A hard worker and a team player.
It is not possible in this offense.
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I believe our eFG% will be challenged to repeat.
But, blk% should rise
I think our eFG% has improvement potential because it was dragged down by our three point percentage. We were consistent because our 2P% was so reliable. A number of guys on this team could improve their long range shooting.
Continued creation at the rim from Tyler and Oso with better long range shooting from Stevie, Ben, and Chase in bigger roles and we can get that better. I think there's potential that next year is considered one of the best offenses of the kenpom era.
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👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆👆
ND sucks
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I think our eFG% has improvement potential because it was dragged down by our three point percentage. We were consistent because our 2P% was so reliable. A number of guys on this team could improve their long range shooting.
Continued creation at the rim from Tyler and Oso with better long range shooting from Stevie, Ben, and Chase in bigger roles and we can get that better. I think there's potential that next year is considered one of the best offenses of the kenpom era.
BAM. Well said. We absolutely have the opportunity to be highly explosive.
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I think our eFG% has improvement potential because it was dragged down by our three point percentage. We were consistent because our 2P% was so reliable. A number of guys on this team could improve their long range shooting.
Continued creation at the rim from Tyler and Oso with better long range shooting from Stevie, Ben, and Chase in bigger roles and we can get that better. I think there's potential that next year is considered one of the best offenses of the kenpom era.
There is certainly a path to improvement in 3FG%. But, Kolek and Jop were both at 40%, and I struggle to project them upward (although Jop at 42% doesn’t feel crazy to me)..
Potential positives… Jop more attempts should help. Gold I think can be pretty good… at least equal to OMax, but potential for much better.. and some of OMax attempts float over to Jop. Kam will be heavy volume and can improve on 36.0%. The rest of the gang was pretty weak… 31-ish% collectively… certainly opportunities to improve. So, yes, I can buy 3FG% improvement.. but I’d probably be thinking maybe 1-ish%
2FG% is where my concerns lie.
Kolek at 51% I don’t see flying way higher. Kam at 64.3% was insane. Can’t expect that again. Jop 45.5% with room to improve… but not to OMax levels which is where some minutes will come from…Oso at 66.0%.. again, not going to expect him to beat that.. with more usage, expanded range.. would probably project this to fall a bit tbh.. OMax 62.4% is gone.. can Gold pick some of that up? Probably.. but.. then you’ve got Stevie at 54.5%, Chase 57.1%.. hard to find bad numbers / easy comps anywhere .. but Kam, Oso, Omax comps.. all tough.
OK. Today’s projection. 2FG% drops 2.0%. 3FG% increases 0.9%. eFG% down 0.6%.
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There is certainly a path to improvement in 3FG%. But, Kolek and Jop were both at 40%, and I struggle to project them upward (although Jop at 42% doesn’t feel crazy to me)..
Potential positives… Jop more attempts should help. Gold I think can be pretty good… at least equal to OMax, but potential for much better.. and some of OMax attempts float over to Jop. Kam will be heavy volume and can improve on 36.0%. The rest of the gang was pretty weak… 31-ish% collectively… certainly opportunities to improve. So, yes, I can buy 3FG% improvement.. but I’d probably be thinking maybe 1-ish%
2FG% is where my concerns lie.
Kolek at 51% I don’t see flying way higher. Kam at 64.3% was insane. Can’t expect that again. Jop 45.5% with room to improve… but not to OMax levels which is where some minutes will come from…Oso at 66.0%.. again, not going to expect him to beat that.. with more usage, expanded range.. would probably project this to fall a bit tbh.. OMax 62.4% is gone.. can Gold pick some of that up? Probably.. but.. then you’ve got Stevie at 54.5%, Chase 57.1%.. hard to find bad numbers / easy comps anywhere .. but Kam, Oso, Omax comps.. all tough.
OK. Today’s projection. 2FG% drops 2.0%. 3FG% increases 0.9%. eFG% down 0.6%.
eFG% should be expected to go down. We were at 56% as a team last year. OMax shot 57.9% eFG and probably more importantly 61.7 TS%.
David Joplin shot 54.5% and 56.9%.
Stevie Mitchell shot 51.2% and 54.6%.
Ben Gold shot 52.4% and 53.8%
Chase Ross shot 53% and 56.2%.
Sean Jones shot 48.1% and 50.6%
You can also safely assume that all 3 of our freshman will be under 57.9% eFG and 1.7 TS%. Barring Al Amadou if he doesn't take threes and only sits in the dunker spot.
Those returning players will likely get the majority of the Omax minutes.
Unless we start shooting insanely hot from three, I should be expected to decrease.
The focus of improvement needs to be defensive eFG% and shot alteration. (something Omax was good at despite his Blk%)
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It's only the preseason but O-Max started alongside Luka and Kyrie for their opener last night. Not the most inspiring statline: 18 minutes, 1 point, 1 rebound, 1 turnover, 2 fouls, 0/3 FG, 0/2 3P, 1/2 FT.
Even so, he clearly made the right choice. Awesome selling point for Shaka
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It's only the preseason but O-Max started alongside Luka and Kyrie for their opener last night. Not the most inspiring statline: 18 minutes, 1 point, 1 rebound, 1 turnover, 2 fouls, 0/3 FG, 0/2 3P, 1/2 FT.
Even so, he clearly made the right choice. Awesome selling point for Shaka
Still not sure if we’re cheering for him to have success or not? It’s hard to tell on scoop which Marquette players we cheer for once they leave Marquette.
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I am cheering for him, but I am still amazed he is in the NBA.
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His skill set and body type are perfect for the NBA. Completely predictable.
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His skill set and body type are perfect for the NBA. Completely predictable.
Minimal Offensive skills, great athlete, 13M reasons why he made the right decision!
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Minimal Offensive skills, great athlete, 13M reasons why he made the right decision!
*Not guaranteed
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It's only the preseason but O-Max started alongside Luka and Kyrie for their opener last night. Not the most inspiring statline: 18 minutes, 1 point, 1 rebound, 1 turnover, 2 fouls, 0/3 FG, 0/2 3P, 1/2 FT.
Even so, he clearly made the right choice. Awesome selling point for Shaka
The Luka plus Kyrie offensive show, with 3 other defensive guys in Williams, OMax, and Lively is an interesting play.
Problem is, Luka and Kyrie will chuck up a gazillion shots if the others are offensively inept, and that plan won’t last very long
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*Not guaranteed
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Your right, 5.6M reasons to go pro, more money made then most people in there life in 2 years!
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It's only the preseason but O-Max started alongside Luka and Kyrie for their opener last night. Not the most inspiring statline: 18 minutes, 1 point, 1 rebound, 1 turnover, 2 fouls, 0/3 FG, 0/2 3P, 1/2 FT.
Even so, he clearly made the right choice. Awesome selling point for Shaka
led the starters in minutes and fall downs
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led the starters in minutes and fall downs
Just emulating Wade. Fall down 7 times, get up 8 :o
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Anyone been following the rest of the preseason for OMax? Is he continuing to get a lot of minutes?
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Some. Not starting anymore. Rookie growing pains.
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Mavs vs Spurs on ESPN tonight.
Everybody in the country will be watching the rookie sensation!
A few will also watch Wembanyama a little.
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No run in the 1st half. I think he'd be better off in the G league for a year or two.
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No run in the 1st half. I think he'd be better off in the G league for a year or two.
Not even sure he dressed?
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Not even sure he dressed?
He sat way in the corner in the second row behind the bench next to Cuban. Not going to lie, that was a big disappointment. Long season though…
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He sat way in the corner in the second row behind the bench next to Cuban. Not going to lie, that was a big disappointment. Long season though…
Reports are they’re concerned about lack of blocks
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Omax not even in the top 12 at the moment. I’m sure he will bet his chance, he has the mentality to put in the time and work for it.
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Omax not even in the top 12 at the moment. I’m sure he will bet his chance, he has the mentality to put in the time and work for it.
G league in his future!
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G league in his future!
yup. But, he gets paid…and if undrafted Sam Hauser is in the bench rotation for Boston in yr 3, maybe in a year or two Omax develops too
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Maybe the NBA can develop a 2-way system with the NCAA now that money is in play.
Like omax, bet on his elite athleticism/metrics and defense.
Realize he’s not an effective offensive threat, doesn’t read the game great and rebound or pass too great etc.
Send him back to Marquette after drafting to let Shaka try to help him while Marquette wins a natty.
How is this a bad plan?
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Maybe the NBA can develop a 2-way system with the NCAA now that money is in play.
Like omax, bet on his elite athleticism/metrics and defense.
Realize he’s not an effective offensive threat, doesn’t read the game great and rebound or pass too great etc.
Send him back to Marquette after drafting to let Shaka try to help him while Marquette wins a natty.
How is this a bad plan?
Because if I were the Mavs, I would rather have him develop playing the pro-game on my G-League franchise.
If I'm Marquette, I would probably want my roster more in my control than based on the whims of an NBA team.
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Maybe the NBA can develop a 2-way system with the NCAA now that money is in play.
Like omax, bet on his elite athleticism/metrics and defense.
Realize he’s not an effective offensive threat, doesn’t read the game great and rebound or pass too great etc.
Send him back to Marquette after drafting to let Shaka try to help him while Marquette wins a natty.
How is this a bad plan?
it is OK, but it would have to be done for all rookies in similar situation.
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Maybe the NBA can develop a 2-way system with the NCAA now that money is in play.
Like omax, bet on his elite athleticism/metrics and defense.
Realize he’s not an effective offensive threat, doesn’t read the game great and rebound or pass too great etc.
Send him back to Marquette after drafting to let Shaka try to help him while Marquette wins a natty.
How is this a bad plan?
Because the gleague develops players vetter for the NBA game
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Because the gleague develops players better for the NBA game
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yup. But, he gets paid…and if undrafted Sam Hauser is in the bench rotation for Boston in yr 3, maybe in a year or two Omax develops too
How does a G League salary compare with what he would have been paid at MU?
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How does a G League salary compare with what he would have been paid at MU?
Omax is a first-round draft choice, so he has an NBA contract. I think I read 2.7 million.
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Omax is a first-round draft choice, so he has an NBA contract. I think I read 2.7 million.
4 YRs - $13.87 Million
He already won.
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4 YRs - $13.87 Million
He already won.
He’ll regret not getting his degree
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He’ll regret not getting his degree
There is one trade off and downside that money can’t buy him, potential of being on a special team that becomes part of MU legend like ‘77. In exchange for not having any semblance of being part of Mavs rotation, which I’d be shocked if it changes any this season. That’s a solid, deep, and veteran team and as I recall. Kidd isn’t much of a fan of unproven guys. Not to mention he has to produce results this year, or is probably gone after their collapse last season.
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There is one trade off and downside that money can’t buy him, potential of being on a special team that becomes part of MU legend like ‘77. In exchange for not having any semblance of being part of Mavs rotation, which I’d be shocked if it changes any this season. That’s a solid, deep, and veteran team and as I recall. Kidd isn’t much of a fan of unproven guys. Not to mention he has to produce results this year, or is probably gone after their collapse last season.
That, too. Kid will regret being a first round pick and achieving his dream of playing in the NBA
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There is one trade off and downside that money can’t buy him, potential of being on a special team that becomes part of MU legend like ‘77. In exchange for not having any semblance of being part of Mavs rotation, which I’d be shocked if it changes any this season. That’s a solid, deep, and veteran team and as I recall. Kidd isn’t much of a fan of unproven guys. Not to mention he has to produce results this year, or is probably gone after their collapse last season.
Seriously? If he could go back he would still make the same decision even if MU wins the title.
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That, too. Kid will regret being a first round pick and achieving his dream of playing in the NBA
Would have been there waiting one more season and maybe would have improved his draft status and chances at NBA success.
But ok funny atheist. Maybe repeat your Badger football/ MU joke again in the college football thread.
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Would have been there waiting one more season and maybe would have improved his draft status and chances at NBA success.
But ok funny atheist. Maybe repeat your Badger football/ MU joke again in the college football thread.
Ah, yes. The improve your stock line. Or he could have gotten hurt or played himself out of the first round.
He made the right decision. First round pick and in the association. Blows my mind people think these kids should stick around when they have that opportunity.
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Ah, yes. The improve your stock line. Or he could have gotten hurt or played himself out of the first round.
He made the right decision. First round pick and in the association. Blows my mind people think these kids should stick around when they have that opportunity.
Atheists blow my mind too.
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Seriously? If he could go back he would still make the same decision even if MU wins the title.
And Shaka encouraged it! He even said at BE media day that if the NBA is there, you gotta go.
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Man who’s never confronted the choice between the NBA first round and a hypothetical chance at an NCAA championship knows exactly what to do.
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For the reading comprehension impaired, I did not say nor argue he certainly made the wrong decision. All I pointed out is a potential downside to it all.
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Atheists blow my mind too.
Weird to bring that up here…
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Weird to bring that up here…
I’m agnostic anyway
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Omax made the right call and I hope every year we have a guy making the same call.
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4 YRs - $13.87 Million
He already won.
That’s not accurate
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That’s not accurate
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Yep, not accurate.
Guaranteed amounts, IF they team decides to exercise its option on years 3 & 4. Not guaranteed to him.
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There is certainly a path to improvement in 3FG%. But, Kolek and Jop were both at 40%, and I struggle to project them upward (although Jop at 42% doesn’t feel crazy to me)..
Potential positives… Jop more attempts should help. Gold I think can be pretty good… at least equal to OMax, but potential for much better.. and some of OMax attempts float over to Jop. Kam will be heavy volume and can improve on 36.0%. The rest of the gang was pretty weak… 31-ish% collectively… certainly opportunities to improve. So, yes, I can buy 3FG% improvement.. but I’d probably be thinking maybe 1-ish%
2FG% is where my concerns lie.
Kolek at 51% I don’t see flying way higher. Kam at 64.3% was insane. Can’t expect that again. Jop 45.5% with room to improve… but not to OMax levels which is where some minutes will come from…Oso at 66.0%.. again, not going to expect him to beat that.. with more usage, expanded range.. would probably project this to fall a bit tbh.. OMax 62.4% is gone.. can Gold pick some of that up? Probably.. but.. then you’ve got Stevie at 54.5%, Chase 57.1%.. hard to find bad numbers / easy comps anywhere .. but Kam, Oso, Omax comps.. all tough.
OK. Today’s projection. 2FG% drops 2.0%. 3FG% increases 0.9%. eFG% down 0.6%.
We’ve now got 34 games in the book. Before the year began, I predicted MU would tally 8 losses in advance of the BET, going 14-6 in conference, and would reach as high as #3 in the AP poll. Those things all happened – but what about more detailed projections?
Prior to the commencement of this season, I projected that MU’s eFG% would drop by 0.6%, with a 2FG% decline of 2.0% being partly offset by an increase in 3FG% of 0.9%.
As we sit on Selection Sunday, MU’s eFG% is down 0.9%, with 2FG% dropping 2.2% and 3FG% improving 0.5%. Pretty good projections by me. #PraiseDue
Preseason 3FG% comments:
“Kolek and Jop were both at 40%, and I struggle to project them upward” – Kolek sits at 40.0%, with Jop down to 37.0%.
“Kam will be heavy volume and can improve on 36.0%” – Kam leads the team at 41.1%.
“Gold I think can be pretty good… at least equal to OMax, but potential for much better” – Gold is 39/108 for 36.1% (compared to 15/50 for 30.0% last season); a year ago, OMax went 39/115 for 33.9%.
“2FG% is where my concerns lie”
“Kam at 64.3% was insane. Can’t expect that again” – Kam’s 2FG% dropped to 57.7%
“Jop 45.5% with room to improve, but not to OMax levels which is where some minutes will come from” – Improvement indeed, at 49.2%.. but OMax a year ago was 62.4%
“Oso at 66.0%.. again, not going to expect him to beat that.. with more usage, expanded range.. would probably project this to fall a bit tbh” – Oso down to 58.6%, with usage (22.6% vs 18.2%) and %Shots up (19.9% vs. 16.9%).
“OMax 62.4% is gone. Can Gold pick some of that up? Probably..” Gold with a great 77.4% 2FG%, but very limited on attempts (31).
Major props to Stevie – 62.8% 2FG% this season, with a lot of that coming from pure effort and IQ.
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Awesome stuff JayBee, congrats on those great predictions, spot on.
Now run it back for us with some NCAAt predictions 😂
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Awesome stuff JayBee, congrats on those great predictions, spot on.
Now run it back for us with some NCAAt predictions 😂
Wait until he pounds those Trulys I'll buy him