MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mu_hilltopper on March 02, 2023, 08:34:25 PM
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On FB, MU legend Jim McIlvaine posted a very long missive on Tyler Kolek and the math he'd need to beat out Tony Miller's various assist records.
The interesting part was where he posits that with NIL, bagmen are coming for MU's players.
No matter what happens in the Big East Tournament, no matter what happens in the NCAA tournament, if the NBA doesn't come calling for Tyler or any other Marquette players this year, you can believe bagmen from all over the country will be descending upon this team.
The money is very real, very legal now and I don't fault any of these kids for taking it, if offered, but that is the reality and I just don't see how it doesn't happen to at least some of them.
Louisville is 4-26 in the AAC. Oklahoma is 4-13 in the Big 12. LSU is 2-15 in the SEC. SMU is 5-11 in the AAC. All of these schools and plenty more know how to pay players and have the money to do it.
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I know a lot of Marquette fans think the team will be even better next year, but how do you keep this team together for one more season?
The only way that might happen is if a Blue & Gold Brinks truck beats the other Brinks trucks onto Wisconsin Ave.
This isn't a surprising take. It just .. stings.
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On FB, MU legend Jim McIlvaine posted a very long missive on Tyler Kolek and the math he'd need to beat out Tony Miller's various assist records.
The interesting part was where he posits that with NIL, bagmen are coming for MU's players.
This isn't a surprising take. It just .. stings.
So MU legend can’t enjoy the ride… has to ride the concern train into cutting down nets on Saturday.
Who the F knows? Maybe some of the big boosters roll in and pay these kids bank…
But why worry about this now? How about enjoy how fuggin awesome this season is right now.
And why doesn’t MU legend exNBA player Jim McIlvany out up some dough?
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Mac stated the truth. I’m not going to spend one second worrying about next year and going to spend every second enjoying this season. That said, I think MU will have a nice Brinks truck on call.
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On FB, MU legend Jim McIlvaine posted a very long missive on Tyler Kolek and the math he'd need to beat out Tony Miller's various assist records.
The interesting part was where he posits that with NIL, bagmen are coming for MU's players.
This isn't a surprising take. It just .. stings.
Doesn't matter. If that happens and Marquette thinks they need those players, then they'll find a way to keep them.
I don't buy them just leaving for money because the reality is, none of these guys are guys that teams are going to back up a truck for. They are all just pretty good players that make a really good team.
Kolek has become one of the best players in the country because of Shaka and Marquette recognizing his talents and making it the perfect situation for him. Marquette will be fine.
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Dont get me wrong it could happen.
But our team is partially really good because of the team. I dont see teams offering our guys(aside maybe TK who we wont let get away) a Pack type of deal.
And as far as our starters go they already have starter roles on a really good team. So they dont have to leave for PT. So someone will have to really overpay.
Could happen. But I think MU will do what needs to be done.
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This off-season is the first test to see if MU is a real player in the NIL world. Let’s enjoy the rest of this season and find out if we’re second class citizens later.
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I guess I’m just waiting for evidence NIL poaching is major deal in basketball. Anyone that thinks so is free to provide 5 examples of it… 🦗 🦗 🦗
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I question the timing.
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I guess I’m just waiting for evidence NIL poaching is major deal in basketball. Anyone that thinks so is free to provide 5 examples of it… 🦗 🦗 🦗
I’m very curious about this as well. Hopefully, 1) I and others are making a mountain out of a mole hill or 2) MU is a real player and can pay their players large sums of cash.
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Relationships matter
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Relationships matter
So does money.
If anyone wants to help: https://www.bethedifferencenil.org/donation-page/
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We are in untested waters with NIL - so we will see how it all shakes out. Hoping Marquette is competitive …..
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OMax and Gold cannot partake in NIL lucre. But I can envision scenarios where Mac is right.
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OMax and Gold cannot partake in NIL lucre. But I can envision scenarios where Mac is right.
I thought this too for international guys but they both posted on social media that they had joined the Be the Difference Collective before the season so I’m not sure.
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Shaka built a great team. Aside from Oso, I don’t see any of our players getting poached. There will be better options for teams looking to build through the portal offering big time NIL $’s.
Also I can’t stress this enough. Be the Difference is in place to keep our players. We’re not using it to attract big time transfers. There will be enough money to keep our guys here.
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Shaka built a great team. Aside from Oso, I don’t see any of our players getting poached. There will be better options for teams looking to build through the portal offering big time NIL $’s.
Also I can’t stress this enough. Be the Difference is in place to keep our players. We’re not using it to attract big time transfers. There will be enough money to keep our guys here.
Agreed. I predict 0 NIL transfers.
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Garcia was already poached. How did that work out?
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Shaka built a great team. Aside from Oso, I don’t see any of our players getting poached. There will be better options for teams looking to build through the portal offering big time NIL $’s.
Also I can’t stress this enough. Be the Difference is in place to keep our players. We’re not using it to attract big time transfers. There will be enough money to keep our guys here.
Oso is one of them that I feel is most likely not to be poached.
Hes so perfect in Shakas system and how we use him. And playing with a guy like TK.
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OMax and Gold cannot partake in NIL lucre. But I can envision scenarios where Mac is right.
I understand that they cannot because they are not US citizens, but for the life of me, I do not understand why that matters. Is it their visa status that prevents it?
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Oso is one of them that I feel is most likely not to be poached.
Hes so perfect in Shakas system and how we use him. And playing with a guy like TK.
He’d be perfect in a lot of systems. He’s a talented player
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OMax and Gold cannot partake in NIL lucre.
I don't think that's as true as you think. Where there's a will, there's a way
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I don't buy them just leaving for money because the reality is, none of these guys are guys that teams are going to back up a truck for. They are all just pretty good players that make a really good team.
Naive, and wrong.
Kolek is gonna be BEPOY and will make some All-American teams. That "just pretty good" is just pretty better than most of the guards in the country, and almost every program would love to have him. Kam and Oso could be targeted, too.
I'm choosing to: 1. Believe that Marquette's NIL people also will want to spend money on our best players; and mostly, B. Think about this fun season rather than worry about hypothetical future stuff that's out of my control.
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I don't think that's as true as you think. Where there's a will, there's a way
Didn’t Kentucky just fly Tshiebwe to Canada where he signed his deals?
If you want to compete, get creative. I have no doubts options will be available for those born outside of this beautiful country.
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Loyalty should be strong from this group too. No one on this roster is a team jumper (high school or college) and Shaka took a chance on several of these guys. He easily could’ve built through the portal this season but rode the guys he had. You can see how much that means to all of these guys.
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If this team makes a Final Four run, we'll do what we did last time --- raise enough money to build the Al. Except this time the money goes into the players wallets. Facilites and assistant coaches salaries sky rocketed in the last 20 years bc they needed spend the money somewhere. TV money will stay with schools but the booster money can go to the kids. IMO money stays the same, difference is who is cashing checks.
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Isn’t MU building a new practice gym? 2 full courts side to side?
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I’ve been hearing that rumor / want for 5 years. Even if they do build over Schroeder Field it’s a fraction of the cost of The AMC.
I’m confident we can build a big NIL fund assuming we make a deep run. Shaka himself gives many faith to invest that you wouldn’t with Buzz and maybe even TC. His authenticity will pay off big time.
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Better cut down the nets in Houston this year, just to be safe.
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Mac is the proud owner of one of the worst NBA contracts, maybe he can pony up some bucks, aina?
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I have never worried about MU having money to compete in the NIL game and more confident about that today. Thinking our players may not be tempted is naive in thinking, but given they are having a blast at MU it already gives MU a fighting chance.
Only negative I see, which is also a positive, I do not think we will see MU getting in bidding wars over players. A year ago I thought that was the best path to take, today I think that will ultimately prove to be the wrong model to take.
If the core of the team is back next year, it will be Shaka’s greatest recruiting season. I believe that every guy needs to recruited every year to retain them in this new era of NIL.
I have my feelings on who may or may not be back, but zero interest in discussing until this team is done cutting down nets.
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Isn't it still only one free transfer from a 4 year school to another 4 year school? So TK would have to sit out a year since he already transferred once and wouldn't be considered a Grad transfer. I believe there are a few others on our roster that would fall into the same category.
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Doesn't matter. If that happens and Marquette thinks they need those players, then they'll find a way to keep them.
I don't buy them just leaving for money because the reality is, none of these guys are guys that teams are going to back up a truck for. They are all just pretty good players that make a really good team.
Kolek has become one of the best players in the country because of Shaka and Marquette recognizing his talents and making it the perfect situation for him. Marquette will be fine.
as i started reading this thread from original post going forward, i had to stop here before reading anymore...this is a great post!
shaka's sum is only as good as it's parts. he has put together a unique combination of players that have clicked together. this is the goal of every coach, it just doesn't work out to the point that this squad has for any number of reasons-people change, injuries, people being true to thyself, home sick, personal issues, etc etc. shaka is a great entrepreneur of people, specifically basketball people.
right now, the group he has assembled is HIS TEAM. they functioned together so far to win the big east and put together a 24-6 record. so many things had to go right to get to this point. with the success comes all the other noise. a big part of me says let's enjoy this ride as long and as far as it takes us. many things have to happen yet for it to continue but i like our chances
on the other hand, if one is to stray from the party here, unfortunately "the devil went down to..." if we have to confront this issue now because, well, someone had to bring it up, yes, like it or not, the NIL is here. who's going to win? i am not going to say you'd have to be a dummy to go for the money elsewhere, because i honestly can't tell you what i'd do at that age presented with the same situation. BUT, the wise ones understand the grass isn't always greener either.
if shaka has connected with these guys as he has shown thus far, and he's contagious, this could be a great ride. only time will tell, but my money is on shaka.
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I don't think that's as true as you think. Where there's a will, there's a way
I have always assumed as much. But officially...
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I have always assumed as much. But officially...
Nothing underhanded about it. Restrictions only apply to work done in the US
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Interesting read by Mac.
If we got the mula to sh1t can ole whatshisface, we got the mula to compete.
Money will follow this success. When we went to the F4, we raised the final four million to build the Al.
We got the dough.
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Billy Packer was right
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Interesting read by Mac.
If we got the mula to sh1t can ole whatshisface, we got the mula to compete.
Money will follow this success. When we went to the F4, we raised the final four million to build the Al.
We got the dough.
but isn't MU $$ different from NIL $$ ?
my understanding is that NIL comes directly from a "booster' or a sponsor (separate from the school-teal?)who wants to use said player in an ad campaign-energy drinks, restaurants, clothing etc no?
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Not being a willing millionaire, it is indeed hard for me to fathom willing millionaires who drop tens of thousands into a sports program, but I know it happens, I guess.
Here's a thought experiment: Imagine having the NIL discussion during the latter half of the Wojo years. Tough sell to have a booster drop 5-6-7 figures so a team can maybe reach the middle of the pack.
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This could be a good weekend for incoming NIL money. There is a large number of formers players that played for Al in town for a reunion and the game. Hoping they all brought their wallets.
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Here's a thought experiment: Imagine having the NIL discussion during the latter half of the Wojo years. Tough sell to have a booster drop 5-6-7 figures so a team can maybe reach the middle of the pack.
Some days it seems like you are stuck there too. Get on the bus!
I think that the value proposition to the player for the next couple years is 1. Fame/Glory (you're going to win) 2. Development/System (Your skills will be featured so you will get paid in the NBA/Pros) and 3. Money (bag of cash)
The top players in the country can probably have a shot at all three (top 15/20 each year) but others (resume of most of our players) will have to choose/compromise.
There is one ball and it makes the stakes even higher to re-recruit the 6th/7th man that likely made #1 possible. No different than the secondary/role players in the NBA. Conversely, I think MU has the resources to keep our top players in the fold if they choose to come back.
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Isn't it still only one free transfer from a 4 year school to another 4 year school? So TK would have to sit out a year since he already transferred once and wouldn't be considered a Grad transfer. I believe there are a few others on our roster that would fall into the same category.
OMax also already transferred once and would need to sit out. I feel reasonably confident neither of those guys would jump because of that reason. (NBA is a different story).
Oso, Kolek, Ellis, and Stevie all seem like Shaka guys, so I think a sense of loyalty would win out, but no guarantees there. I'm also not really worried about anyone backing up a Brinks truck for Ellis/Stevie, etc. For Oso and Stevie in particular, I think that education is also super important.
Joplin might want to be a starter. If he sees that opportunity elsewhere, he might jump. Money might actually help KEEP him here, since I don't think he'd be worth a ton in transfer NIL. He is also local, which helps.
Really hard to predict what an international guy like Gold might do. Australian league might be tempting.
I admit I have exactly zero read on either of the Jones' or Chase Ross. Kam is the only one who might fetch high $$ in the transfer market (he comps pretty well to Tyrese Hunter who transferred within conference almost certainly for $$), unless Ross/Sean really shows out in a tournament game.
If there's one positive, it's that NIL poaching could help clear the scholarship log-jam? (Just trying to silver-lining this)
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So does money.
If anyone wants to help: https://www.bethedifferencenil.org/donation-page/
I love MU Hoops, but if I'm donating to the University, I want it to go towards paying for smart but financially disadvantaged kids to go to college, not for paying athletes who will make way more than I ever will for being good at throwing a ball through a ring.
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I love MU Hoops, but if I'm donating to the University, I want it to go towards paying for smart but financially disadvantaged kids to go to college, not for paying athletes who will make way more than I ever will for being good at throwing a ball through a ring.
Then stop wasting your time on a message board with anonymous fans and get back to work, work harder, make more money and donate it so you can pay for smart but financially disadvantaged kids to go to college instead of discussing athletes who will make way more than you ever will (way to salary cap yourself, COLE) for being good at throwing a ball through a ring.
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Agreed. I predict 0 NIL transfers.
+1
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I love MU Hoops, but if I'm donating to the University, I want it to go towards paying for smart but financially disadvantaged kids to go to college, not for paying athletes who will make way more than I ever will for being good at throwing a ball through a ring.
Then you don't understand how the collective works. Your donation goes to support organizations like All In Milwaukee, Boys and Girls Club, Sharps Literacy, etc. Some does go to players for their work with these initiatives. The collective couldn't be a 501(C)(3) if it's main purpose was paying players.
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Free agency rarely works in Major League Baseball or Professional Football. If it did, the Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox would have a four-team, seven game each elimination tournament.
My beloved St. Louis Cardinals cornered the market on Brinks trucks to bring in Nolan Arenado and Paul Goldschmidt. My God, the Cubs have a pennant since the last time the Cardinals won it all! It just didn't work.
Why do you think it will work in College Basketball?
What Shaka has shown is what most of us who follow college basketball know -- its the system that works. The system means having an excellent coach, clear understanding of roles and players who make their own individual desires subservient to the greater good of the team. Talent helps but if talent were the only reason teams succeeded, North Carolina and Kentucky would not be vastly underperforming this year.
At day's end, NIL may bring someone in who can fit and will get a team "over the top." But it is far more important that we build from within, groom players who will be good ballplayers, good students and ultimately good alumni -- oh and can win a Natty for us! In that vein, I'd be surprised if anyone left. Certainly not Oso, whose success can be traced to Coach Shaka's arrival and efforts.
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Just based on what's publicly known my guess is:
O-Max and Kolek are off the board because they aren't going to sit for a year
Oso is off the board because he's such a unique player that I don't think would be nearly as valuable outside this system, I don't think he'll command an unreasonable NIL price
Stevie and Jop could certainly jump but I don't think either would command an NIL price that we couldn't match
Someone would be smart to throw stupid money at Ross but I don't think they will without more proof of concept
Gold/S Jones/Ellis/Itejere aren't commanding significant NIL offers
That leaves Kam. Other than Kolek, he appears to be the most bought in to what Shaka is selling so I'm hopeful that he will stay home. But if Memphis backs up 4 or 5 brinks trucks for him to come home....that's hard to say no to. To be clear, I'm not predicting this will happen but just a situation I could see playing out.
Any of these guys could leave for any number of reasons. NIL isn't the only reason a player may leave. But Kam is the only one that I'm "worried" about getting high enough offers to convince him to leave a situation he would otherwise stay in.
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Then stop wasting your time on a message board with anonymous fans and get back to work, work harder, make more money and donate it so you can pay for smart but financially disadvantaged kids to go to college instead of discussing athletes who will make way more than you ever will (way to salary cap yourself, COLE) for being good at throwing a ball through a ring.
For me MU basketball is a nice distraction in the winter. I look forward to every game. I live just far enough away to not have season tickets but get to a few games a year, home or away. This fund is worth giving a little money to in my opinion because it funds my entertainment, much like cable TV or gambling or golf or a vacation. I personally want MU to win at a high level so I’ll do my part. The money that will come into the school with a successful program will more than offset my donation to the players. It’s a win, win situation as long as we do it the right way.
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Free agency rarely works in Major League Baseball or Professional Football.
Why do you think it will work in College Basketball?
Because it works like gangbusters in professional basketball?
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Scoopiest scoop thread so far this month
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I love MU Hoops, but if I'm donating to the University, I want it to go towards paying for smart but financially disadvantaged kids to go to college, not for paying athletes who will make way more than I ever will for being good at throwing a ball through a ring.
Frankly, I think most people including myself think that way.
Sports boosters are a unique breed. I imagine some just have money sloshing around and they think why not .. and others invest their personal identity in to a program, a sport, and spend big to buy presitge they want.
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That leaves Kam. Other than Kolek, he appears to be the most bought in to what Shaka is selling so I'm hopeful that he will stay home. But if Memphis backs up 4 or 5 brinks trucks for him to come home....that's hard to say no to. To be clear, I'm not predicting this will happen but just a situation I could see playing out.
That's the exact situation I've been thinking about. If Kam does get a bag and leaves to go home, it would be great for him and I won't have any hard feelings.
"Kam-ping World" does have a nice ring to it though.........
Anyways, if that were to happen, his production could be replaced. Guys will improve and step up. People everywhere thought losing Lewis and Morsel would doom us to be bottom feeders this year, look how that turned out.
There's a time to think about this stuff though, and there's still a lot of ball left to play.
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Then you don't understand how the collective works. Your donation goes to support organizations like All In Milwaukee, Boys and Girls Club, Sharps Literacy, etc. Some does go to players for their work with these initiatives. The collective couldn't be a 501(C)(3) if it's main purpose was paying players.
Hey @ElonMusk/Ners. Since your charity of choice for our bet was Boys and Girls Club (if I remember correctly), and since some of the funds that go to the collective go towards Boys and Girls Club but also support the team/players, what do you think about me donating the bet to the collective? Happy to send it all to Boys and Girls Club if that's what you'd like, but thought this would be a way to also support the men's basketball program.
Glad Kolek has proved me wrong. He has improved his scoring ability, both from inside the arc and outside, far more than I thought he was capable of. And he should be recognized as the BEPOY as a result. Hope he rakes in a ton of cash off of his tshirts.
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Frankly, I think most people including myself think that way.
Sports boosters are a unique breed. I imagine some just have money sloshing around and they think why not .. and others invest their personal identity in to a program, a sport, and spend big to buy presitge they want.
Do you ever go to Vegas and besides spending money on a show or great food go to the casino with $1000 to lose knowing it’s great entertainment? For some people a $1,000 a year would be worth the entertainment value.
Hopefully a couple big boosters get the fund to a fairly high level. And then through several hundred people donating some of their entertainment dollars every year the fund will grow considerably and the interest pays for these players In the future.
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I thought this too for international guys but they both posted on social media that they had joined the Be the Difference Collective before the season so I’m not sure.
There are some questions whether or not "passive" actions, like licensing, is actually considered "employment." Also international students can conduct NIL activities in places other than the United States. For instance, if OMax did some work in Montreal for the Be the Difference collective in the off-season.
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I love MU Hoops, but if I'm donating to the University, I want it to go towards paying for smart but financially disadvantaged kids to go to college, not for paying athletes who will make way more than I ever will for being good at throwing a ball through a ring.
I certainly agree with this sentiment but it's hard to argue that a school like Marquette greatly improves when its primary marketing source is doing well. During the Wojo years we fell to the 90s in US WNR. When we had the 3 amigos we were up to 74. While that's only a small increase the optics of top 75 vs top 100 are pretty big IMO. A final four drastically increases the application pool and thus could improve our numbers as well giving us another boost.
I don't donate to the NIL fund but could see an argument for how it'd help the school as a whole.
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I have never worried about MU having money to compete in the NIL game and more confident about that today. Thinking our players may not be tempted is naive in thinking, but given they are having a blast at MU it already gives MU a fighting chance.
Only negative I see, which is also a positive, I do not think we will see MU getting in bidding wars over players. A year ago I thought that was the best path to take, today I think that will ultimately prove to be the wrong model to take.
If the core of the team is back next year, it will be Shaka’s greatest recruiting season. I believe that every guy needs to recruited every year to retain them in this new era of NIL.
I have my feelings on who may or may not be back, but zero interest in discussing until this team is done cutting down nets.
Excellent post, Goose. Agree entirely.
I look forward to you, me and our fellow Scoopers talking about who might or might not return -- after our heroes are lifting the national championship trophy!
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I guess I’m just waiting for evidence NIL poaching is major deal in basketball. Anyone that thinks so is free to provide 5 examples of it… 🦗 🦗 🦗
We're in the infancy of NIL. The next 3 years will reveal how it works.
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I have never worried about MU having money to compete in the NIL game and more confident about that today. Thinking our players may not be tempted is naive in thinking, but given they are having a blast at MU it already gives MU a fighting chance.
Only negative I see, which is also a positive, I do not think we will see MU getting in bidding wars over players. A year ago I thought that was the best path to take, today I think that will ultimately prove to be the wrong model to take.
If the core of the team is back next year, it will be Shaka’s greatest recruiting season. I believe that every guy needs to recruited every year to retain them in this new era of NIL.
I have my feelings on who may or may not be back, but zero interest in discussing until this team is done cutting down nets.
Yep. Not only do I agree with this but I agree with "duanewade" of all posters that Marquette fans need to stop crying poor about the basketball program. Believe me, if NIL is going to be an issue, there will be people who step up. For goodness sakes the campus has raised $650 million toward its $750 million campaign goal. You don't think there are resources to fund NIL?
Will we be able to match the likes of Louisville? No...but I don't think we have to. Provide them with enough, and they'll stick around to play with a coach and with teammates they enjoy.
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If someone leaves this current group (which I doubt) then that would open up a spot for someone else.
Shaka has already gotten Kolek, Morsell, Kuath, Wrightsil, OMax to transfer in. Don't think there isnt some 20 ppg scorer out there going "man I wish I could play in Marquette's offense with Shaka."
If one door closes, another would open. Marquette will be fine.
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Frankly, I think most people including myself think that way.
Sports boosters are a unique breed. I imagine some just have money sloshing around and they think why not .. and others invest their personal identity in to a program, a sport, and spend big to buy presitge they want.
I get this perspective...but honestly if you are a reader of this board on a regular basis, the men's basketball team more likely or not gives you some amount of joy. I am not saying you need to give 10k...but if everyone on this board chips in $25-$50 dollars to the collective that has to add up to mean something.
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What is the current intent of NIL? Is it to pay players for their name, image and likeness (brand marketing)? Or to pay them to attend your school and play basketball?
One is allegedly not allowed under NCAA rules. Yet this appears to be the predominate method, with other members schools or their handlers recruiting current players. I am not seeing a lot of businesses hiring NCAA players to sell their products and services as of today. I mean "One Call" OMax would be a natural fit for how often he falls.
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What is the current intent of NIL? Is it to pay players for their name, image and likeness (brand marketing)? Or to pay them to attend your school and play basketball?
This seems like the theoretical argument that the NCAA and academia love. Not unlike eligibility based on theoretical ability to graduate.
I prefer how it applies in practice. So facilitating an ‘out of the shadows’ way to pay your basketball team.
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What is the current intent of NIL? Is it to pay players for their name, image and likeness (brand marketing)? Or to pay them to attend your school and play basketball?
One is allegedly not allowed under NCAA rules. Yet this appears to be the predominate method, with other members schools or their handlers recruiting current players. I am not seeing a lot of businesses hiring NCAA players to sell their products and services as of today. I mean "One Call" OMax would be a natural fit for how often he falls.
I view it similar to how Dwight Schrute views loyalty. He’s a loyal person, but if someone values his loyalty more, he’d go wherever his loyalty is valued the most.
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Yep. Not only do I agree with this but I agree with "duanewade" of all posters that Marquette fans need to stop crying poor about the basketball program. Believe me, if NIL is going to be an issue, there will be people who step up. For goodness sakes the campus has raised $650 million toward its $750 million campaign goal. You don't think there are resources to fund NIL?
Will we be able to match the likes of Louisville? No...but I don't think we have to. Provide them with enough, and they'll stick around to play with a coach and with teammates they enjoy.
Marquette heavily invests in their basketball. If a player leaves because of NIL, it means they don’t want to be here. We will be able to match/beat 95% of offers other schools will come along with.
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Marquette heavily invests in their basketball. If a player leaves because of NIL, it means they don’t want to be here. We will be able to match/beat 95% of offers other schools will come along with.
Can and will are different things. I have no doubt that we could match any offer if we wanted to. I don't know how much Shaka will get into bidding wars
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panda
Maybe the 5% is what concerned some fans.
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I get this perspective...but honestly if you are a reader of this board on a regular basis, the men's basketball team more likely or not gives you some amount of joy. I am not saying you need to give 10k...but if everyone on this board chips in $25-$50 dollars to the collective that has to add up to mean something.
The problem here is that most P5 schools have similar collectives, so the question comes down to whether MU's can ever be equally funded as compared to state schools with 4x the attendance and alumni base. This is exacerbated by the fact that MU is a private school as compared to Tennessee or Kentucky or Wisconsin.
And collectives are only one component of an overall NIL strategy. We cant point to the collective and say "see, we're competitive!"
While our private stauts and relatively small student- and alumni bases are downsides, the area where we can play on a level playing field is by building a world-class program that helps our athletes take advantage of the NIL opportunities that are independent of the size of the school--things like:
- Personal brand development
- Personal sponsorships
- The importance of building and monetizing an audience on social media
- Maximizing platforms like Locals, Patreon, Substack, etc
I had hopes that we were taking that approach with the announcement of the consulting firm that MU brought on board at the outset of the NIL era. However, from the looks of the abomination that is TylerKolke.com, we didn't even get that right.
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If someone leaves this current group (which I doubt) then that would open up a spot for someone else.
Shaka has already gotten Kolek, Morsell, Kuath, Wrightsil, OMax to transfer in. Don't think there isnt some 20 ppg scorer out there going "man I wish I could play in Marquette's offense with Shaka."
If one door closes, another would open. Marquette will be fine.
On this we agree. This works both ways.
It's also why I have zero concern about MU being one over next season's scholarship limit. It will work itself out.
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This seems like the theoretical argument that the NCAA and academia love. Not unlike eligibility based on theoretical ability to graduate.
I prefer how it applies in practice. So facilitating an ‘out of the shadows’ way to pay your basketball team.
So then, what is the value of the NCAA?
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So then, what is the value of the NCAA?
Staging championships.
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I understand that they cannot because they are not US citizens, but for the life of me, I do not understand why that matters. Is it their visa status that prevents it?
They can earn NIL--they just are limited in how they can do it within the US. But apparently, athletes can fly to their home country and get paid there.
https://spectrumnews1.com/ky/louisville/sports/2022/05/30/foreign-athletes-nil (https://spectrumnews1.com/ky/louisville/sports/2022/05/30/foreign-athletes-nil)
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So then, what is the value of the NCAA?
Posturing.
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panda
Maybe the 5% is what concerned some fans.
My point in the 5% is that we’re not going to compete with the Miami’s of the NIL world offering a player of Nyjel Pack’s caliber crazy amounts of money. Otherwise we’ll be more than competitive.
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Can and will are different things. I have no doubt that we could match any offer if we wanted to. I don't know how much Shaka will get into bidding wars
“Can” is a significantly important place to be in the NIL world.
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As far as this team goes, I think MU/Shaka would do whatever it takes to keep Kolek and (to a slightly lesser extent) Oso. They won’t be outbid for those guys.
If other players wanted to get into a bidding war, I think Shaka would say, “We will be moving in a different direction, but good luck.” Long list of players who want to be in this program.
That said though, I trust MU will put the players in a good position to benefit from NIL opportunities (even after seeing Kolek’s shoddy looking website).
Kam is the only poach candidate. Omax would have to sit a year and if any other player transferred, I would chalk that up to them wanting a larger role (including Joplin), not NIL. Kam has been extremely pro MU his whole time here and even before he got here as well. He even called Wojo the GOAT! He tweeted that he loves MU a few days ago. I just think at this point it’s way too big of a stretch to think he’d be the type of guy to get into a bidding war and leave for the highest offer.
That’s why I’d put the prediction for NIL transfers at 0 this year.
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Not being a willing millionaire, it is indeed hard for me to fathom willing millionaires who drop tens of thousands into a sports program, but I know it happens, I guess.
Here's a thought experiment: Imagine having the NIL discussion during the latter half of the Wojo years. Tough sell to have a booster drop 5-6-7 figures so a team can maybe reach the middle of the pack.
[/quote
Stay in politics long 'nough, yule get der, hey?
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Staging championships.
Need to change their mission then
https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2021/6/28/mission-and-priorities.aspx
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Need to change their mission then
https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2021/6/28/mission-and-priorities.aspx
Where’s the part about making the most money possible ?
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Not being a willing millionaire, it is indeed hard for me to fathom willing millionaires who drop tens of thousands into a sports program, but I know it happens, I guess.
Here's a thought experiment: Imagine having the NIL discussion during the latter half of the Wojo years. Tough sell to have a booster drop 5-6-7 figures so a team can maybe reach the middle of the pack.
[/quote
Stay in politics long 'nough, yule get der, hey?
There isnt anyone on this team that is going to make 'millions' in the NBA starting next year.
For those that think Kolek is an NBA guy...I'd be surprised. Kolek is one of the best team oriented players in the country but the NBA is a 24 second shot clock designed to be 1 on 1. It's not supposed to be team oriented. Kolek doesn't have a game built for the NBA, he has a game designed perfectly for College Hoops and I think he recognizes that. Exactly why he said he wants to play College Hoops as long as he possibly can.
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Speaking about transfers, Steele has an article up about Wrightsil
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/03/03/marquette-naia-transfer-zach-wrightsils-season-over-with-knee-injury/69964923007/
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If someone leaves this current group (which I doubt) then that would open up a spot for someone else.
Shaka has already gotten Kolek, Morsell, Kuath, Wrightsil, OMax to transfer in. Don't think there isnt some 20 ppg scorer out there going "man I wish I could play in Marquette's offense with Shaka."
If one door closes, another would open. Marquette will be fine.
We're 1 over the scholarship limit for next year as it stands. And that's assuming Wrightsil will be gone, which in theory he could probably come back. So I doubt we're bringing anyone else in even if someone good gets poached.
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We're 1 over the scholarship limit for next year as it stands. And that's assuming Wrightsil will be gone, which in theory he could probably come back. So I doubt we're bringing anyone else in even if someone good gets poached.
Would still open the door for someone else like Ross, Ellis, Norman, Lowery...
That being said, I think all of our starters will be back next year, but I'll worry about that at a later date.
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So then, what is the value of the NCAA?
Giving the universities plausible deniability?
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Free agency rarely works in Major League Baseball or Professional Football. If it did, the Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox would have a four-team, seven game each elimination tournament.
My beloved St. Louis Cardinals cornered the market on Brinks trucks to bring in Nolan Arenado and Paul Goldschmidt. My God, the Cubs have a pennant since the last time the Cardinals won it all! It just didn't work.
Why do you think it will work in College Basketball?
What Shaka has shown is what most of us who follow college basketball know -- its the system that works. The system means having an excellent coach, clear understanding of roles and players who make their own individual desires subservient to the greater good of the team. Talent helps but if talent were the only reason teams succeeded, North Carolina and Kentucky would not be vastly underperforming this year.
At day's end, NIL may bring someone in who can fit and will get a team "over the top." But it is far more important that we build from within, groom players who will be good ballplayers, good students and ultimately good alumni -- oh and can win a Natty for us! In that vein, I'd be surprised if anyone left. Certainly not Oso, whose success can be traced to Coach Shaka's arrival and efforts.
The major difference here is that NIL's are basically 1 year deals whereas what you are comparing it to requires multi year fully guaranteed 5+ type year contracts. If a college doesn't think the money they paid for 1 year of Player X is working out, they can encourage him to leave and move that money to new Player Y.
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So then, what is the value of the NCAA?
Arbiter of punishment for arbitrarily enforced rules.
Cashin checks
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Free agency rarely works in Major League Baseball or Professional Football. If it did, the Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox would have a four-team, seven game each elimination tournament.
My beloved St. Louis Cardinals cornered the market on Brinks trucks to bring in Nolan Arenado and Paul Goldschmidt. My God, the Cubs have a pennant since the last time the Cardinals won it all! It just didn't work.
Why do you think it will work in College Basketball?
Marquette is mostly built on free agency.
When Shaka arrived, he quickly signed eleven free agents. Oso, Kam, Greg, and Stevie became free agents when Wojo left, and Shaka was successful in resigning them. Morsell, Kurath, Kolek, OMP, Ellis, Iterjere and Joplin were all free agents after being released by other teams.
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While it is nice to think that money alone will not lure any of our players away to other schools, keep in mind that Miami paid Nigel Pack a boat load of money to transfer from Kansas State. He would have been playing on a better team had he stayed at K State.
MU has a number of players who can help other teams. Guys like Tyler and Kam can help nearly any team, but so can players like Joplin, Chase Young, and Stevie Mitchell. Unfortunately, I have to agree that the team is potentially vulnerable to NIL-related transfers.
I agree that players are certainly entitled to some compensation, but the NCAA is creating a terrible problem by basically having no structure around NIL money and the transfer portal.
It will be interesting to see if Shaka has created a culture that can hold them all in place.
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While it is nice to think that money alone will not lure any of our players away to other schools, keep in mind that Miami paid Nigel Pack a boat load of money to transfer from Kansas State. He would have been playing on a better team had he stayed at K State.
MU has a number of players who can help other teams. Guys like Tyler and Kam can help nearly any team, but so can players like Joplin, Chase Young, and Stevie Mitchell. Unfortunately, I have to agree that the team is potentially vulnerable to NIL-related transfers.
I agree that players are certainly entitled to some compensation, but the NCAA is creating a terrible problem by basically having no structure around NIL money and the transfer portal.
It will be interesting to see if Shaka has created a culture that can hold them all in place.
I wondered why our defense had improved so much. Nice to have a former NFL defensive rookie of the year on the team
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Dunno about all that, but I set up annual btd contributions today, for as much fun as I've had watching them this year down in TX its the least I could do.
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I think the idea that Marquette is especially vulnerable to NIL poaching is pure COLE. If anything, I think we’re one of the more protected P6 teams.
Shaka built a team based on brotherhood and long-term development. It’s clear that most if not all of the locker room has bought into that vision. Between that and an NIL system designed to prioritize player retention, I think MU is well-positioned to be a turnover success story into next season.
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I'm so sad that the season is over and we have to worry about this instead of enjoying the magical ride that this season was....oh wait.
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I'm so sad that the season is over and we have to worry about this instead of enjoying the magical ride that this season was....oh wait.
The thread is a little hypocritical as well in that a lot of posters who like to freely speculate on this topic now would scold another poster for starting a thread today about how Marquette might clear their over the limit scholarship situation for next season by cutting one of the little used players.
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I think the idea that Marquette is especially vulnerable to NIL poaching is pure COLE. If anything, I think we’re one of the more protected P6 teams.
Shaka built a team based on brotherhood and long-term development. It’s clear that most if not all of the locker room has bought into that vision. Between that and an NIL system designed to prioritize player retention, I think MU is well-positioned to be a turnover success story into next season.
Two words…I agree
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The thread is a little hypocritical as well in that a lot of posters who like to freely speculate on this topic now would scold another poster for starting a thread today about how Marquette might clear their over the limit scholarship situation for next season by cutting one of the little used players.
This thread has jumped the shark.
After this season, the list of players wanting to come to Marquette will be 50x more than want to leave.
I know we will be good next year because Shaka will be here.
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I think the idea that Marquette is especially vulnerable to NIL poaching is pure COLE. If anything, I think we’re one of the more protected P6 teams.
Shaka built a team based on brotherhood and long-term development. It’s clear that most if not all of the locker room has bought into that vision. Between that and an NIL system designed to prioritize player retention, I think MU is well-positioned to be a turnover success story into next season.
I think you are spot on, Two Words.
Even the guys you might reasonably expect to leave, like Ellis or Itijere, have very close bonds with Shaka. I think they would only go if Shaka recommended it and found them a place where they could find likely success.
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I think the idea that Marquette is especially vulnerable to NIL poaching is pure COLE. If anything, I think we’re one of the more protected P6 teams.
Shaka built a team based on brotherhood and long-term development. It’s clear that most if not all of the locker room has bought into that vision. Between that and an NIL system designed to prioritize player retention, I think MU is well-positioned to be a turnover success story into next season.
Between Crean becoming coach in '99 and Shaka in '21 how many times have we had a full compliment of Scholarship players not counting walk-ons. I probably could count those one hand. History would suggest lack of player retention was pretty much endemic culminating with the Hausers. My feeling about NIL are still not optimistic about how it will affect the MU basketball program, not the players; but willing to see how all this plays out over the next few seasons.
If relationships and connectivity are real the program will survive as MU's money brokers will come through if they want a competitive team like we have now. However, will the same connectivity/chemistry translate to future recruits. We are all in uncharted waters as there are no rules.
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The problem here is that most P5 schools have similar collectives, so the question comes down to whether MU's can ever be equally funded as compared to state schools with 4x the attendance and alumni base. This is exacerbated by the fact that MU is a private school as compared to Tennessee or Kentucky or Wisconsin.
P5 are bigger, but bigger also comes with more mouths to feed. We have 7 to 10 players that need to be made whole every year. They have 70 to 80...and 70%-80% of the number play football and are in line ahead of the basketball team. I live in Columbus and my neighbor played on the Oden/Conley final four team, he is on the board of a OSU hoop collective...they are STRUGGLING for donors because football stirs the drink. CJ Stroud likely made more than 2.5 million this year. Quinn Ewers reportedly made about a million to sit on the bench and transfer to Texas. This is why our collective can make a dent against the big boys.
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The problem here is that most P5 schools have similar collectives, so the question comes down to whether MU's can ever be equally funded as compared to state schools with 4x the attendance and alumni base. This is exacerbated by the fact that MU is a private school as compared to Tennessee or Kentucky or Wisconsin.
When comparing MU to all the big state schools and the sizes of their NILs, remember that we are at an enormous advantage in that we do not have to fund football player retention. We have 5-10 players to worry about each year, not 50-75.
Edit: eyeballs, you beat me to it.
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When comparing MU to all the big state schools and the sizes of their NILs, remember that we are at an enormous advantage in that we do not have to fund football player retention. We have 5-10 players to worry about each year, not 50-75.
Edit: eyeballs, you beat me to it.
All the "eyeballs" at LSU are on this athlete. NIL...ca caching, caching.
https://www.the-sun.com/sport/5853521/olivia-dunne-gynmast-tiktok-instagram-lsu-athletics/
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Between Crean becoming coach in '99 and Shaka in '21 how many times have we had a full compliment of Scholarship players not counting walk-ons. I probably could count those one hand. History would suggest lack of player retention was pretty much endemic culminating with the Hausers. My feeling about NIL are still not optimistic about how it will affect the MU basketball program, not the players; but willing to see how all this plays out over the next few seasons.
If relationships and connectivity are real the program will survive as MU's money brokers will come through if they want a competitive team like we have now. However, will the same connectivity/chemistry translate to future recruits. We are all in uncharted waters as there are no rules.
That kind of turnover has been par for the course in college basketball. Not saying it won’t still happen under Shaka, or that it won’t get worse around college hoops in the wake of the transfer portal and NIL.
I’m just predicting Marquette will be well above average in player retention moving forward. Can’t say I know what that “average” will be.
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This
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I think you are spot on, Two Words.
Even the guys you might reasonably expect to leave, like Ellis or Itijere, have very close bonds with Shaka. I think they would only go if Shaka recommended it and found them a place where they could find likely success.
Allegedly, these two have already made it known they will be transferring, and this has been known since at least January. If true, apparently this hasn't caused any issues in the locker room.
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I’ve always felt that NIL is there to mostly benefit those 10-20 guys who were getting crazy money under the table. While most schools are doing collectives like this or other ways to get compensation to all or most players, they are unlikely to really pay up for more than the true stars. Witness Dennis Evans, UMn signee who
suddenly wants out of he commitment to the B1G’s worst team, but only to go to Louisville whose record is arguably worse but NIL options are arguably better. So, Kolek is at risk but probably won’t want to sit out a year. I don’t really see other players anyone is going to want to cash out for. And if players want to leave, so be it. We will survive, as always.
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Then stop wasting your time on a message board with anonymous fans and get back to work, work harder, make more money and donate it so you can pay for smart but financially disadvantaged kids to go to college instead of discussing athletes who will make way more than you ever will (way to salary cap yourself, COLE) for being good at throwing a ball through a ring.
rough day today?
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I wondered why our defense had improved so much. Nice to have a former NFL defensive rookie of the year on the team
I think he replaced Justin Fields. ;)
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Hey @ElonMusk/Ners. Since your charity of choice for our bet was Boys and Girls Club (if I remember correctly), and since some of the funds that go to the collective go towards Boys and Girls Club but also support the team/players, what do you think about me donating the bet to the collective? Happy to send it all to Boys and Girls Club if that's what you'd like, but thought this would be a way to also support the men's basketball program.
BTD NIL should be the official charity of all future Scoop board bets.
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All the "eyeballs" at LSU are on this athlete. NIL...ca caching, caching.
https://www.the-sun.com/sport/5853521/olivia-dunne-gynmast-tiktok-instagram-lsu-athletics/
And she just promoted and showed herself using a company that is considered academic misconduct.
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This could be a good weekend for incoming NIL money. There is a large number of formers players that played for Al in town for a reunion and the game. Hoping they all brought their wallets.
https://m.facebook.com/MarquetteMensBB/photos/a.155187664624869/3013284198815187/?type=3&mibextid=qC1gEa
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Allegedly, these two have already made it known they will be transferring, and this has been known since at least January. If true, apparently this hasn't caused any issues in the locker room.
That’s a shame, if true. Keeyans athleticism is super intriguing.
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That’s a shame, if true. Keeyans athleticism is super intriguing.
Sure, but how long can you afford to wait for the athleticism to translate into the court?
He had a whole red shirt year and cannot see the floor when there’s a need for a backup 5.
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Allegedly, these two have already made it known they will be transferring, and this has been known since at least January. If true, apparently this hasn't caused any issues in the locker room.
Shame if EE is transferring. Think he has the highest ceiling of all the guards if he has a jumper going.
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Shame if EE is transferring. Think he has the highest ceiling of all the guards if he has a jumper going.
Explains the scholarship table
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https://nypost.com/2023/02/28/cavinder-twins-miami-saga-shows-ncaas-nil-rules-silliness/
Do we have a Ruiz?
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rough day today?
Nothing bothers me more than someone who says “who will make more than I ever make” etc.
If these kids make more than you do it’s going to be because they put in incredible hours in grade school, HS & college to get to that point. High end D1 talent sacrifice more life events than most of us can even imagine.
If you want to give to EOP type student, that’s great. But don’t bring in how much money Oso will make down the road. Oso is putting in CEO hours for basketball while having a full time MU credit load. Don’t begrudge his future success. It’s unseemly. That’s not MU. We cheer for all of us to succeed.
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The Lens
There is no dollar amount these guys can make that I would not be off the charts excited for them. I hope every guy makes big time cash at MU next year. Pay the men their money!!!
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Sure, but how long can you afford to wait for the athleticism to translate into the court?
He had a whole red shirt year and cannot see the floor when there’s a need for a backup 5.
I get it, but you can’t play 13 guys. He’s a perfectly acceptable 13th man that could turn into a lottery ticket. But something has to give and of all the rostered players he is the most obvious change of scenery candidate. Certainly would understand the move from his perspective.
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Tyler Kolek appears to have a partnership with TKO Investment Banking
https://youtu.be/IzmyBRobKds
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The Big East Tournament is a huge plus for us. Playing on the biggest stage in front of a packed house can’t hurt for NIL opportunities.
The only thing better is deep runs in the NCAA tournament.
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Have the shoe companies gotten involved with this yet? You would think Jordan Brand would have a vested interest in supporting their schools (or steering people to their schools).
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Explains the scholarship table
If all 9 players comeback or even 8, you still have 11 or 12 players back, can really only play 10, so Tre will get some PT time and I do like What I have seen from Lowery, only so much playing time to go around. I do believe recruiting top players in the future will happen. I would not be surprised if a top 30 player calls Shaka.
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Hey @ElonMusk/Ners. Since your charity of choice for our bet was Boys and Girls Club (if I remember correctly), and since some of the funds that go to the collective go towards Boys and Girls Club but also support the team/players, what do you think about me donating the bet to the collective? Happy to send it all to Boys and Girls Club if that's what you'd like, but thought this would be a way to also support the men's basketball program.
Glad Kolek has proved me wrong. He has improved his scoring ability, both from inside the arc and outside, far more than I thought he was capable of. And he should be recognized as the BEPOY as a result. Hope he rakes in a ton of cash off of his tshirts.
Yes - 100% support making the donation to our NIL fund. Do it!
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All's well that ends well for wades and Ners.
Kolek finds his 3-point shot, benefiting Marquette.
Ners wins the bet, with the money going to the NIL fund, benefiting Marquette (and, indirectly, select charities).
This is just beautiful, guys!
We Are Marquette!
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All payouts from wagers between scoopers on MUScoop go to the Marquette Collective as agreed to in the user agreements we all signed as a condition of our use of this site to post our nonsense…
Trust me. It’s true. Believe me. Check for yourself!
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Tyler Kolek appears to have a partnership with TKO Investment Banking
https://youtu.be/IzmyBRobKds
...better tha SVB.
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There was a deal in place with Norfolk Southern, but that turned into a train wreck.
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BTDNIL
https://twitter.com/BTDNIL/status/1643366704544636928?t=tZZ01dQuxPniybVnIOYuWQ&s=19
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The Lens
There is no dollar amount these guys can make that I would not be off the charts excited for them. I hope every guy makes big time cash at MU next year. Pay the men their money!!!
Goose
Love the “Rounders” reference. Malcovich was brilliant as KGB!
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Lenny
KGB was a great character and that line is used often in our household.