MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on January 27, 2023, 07:57:55 PM
-
How many similar situations have occurred where there wasn't video?
This is yet another example that there shouldn't be any excuses for a body cam not on/active/working.
-
i didn't even want to watch that video. i knew it was going to be BAD...REALLY BAD. i think those rogue cops strayed from the police training manual significantly. those ex-cops ARE going to jail where they belong. that is essentially a death sentence, but...oh well.
the timing of the release of this video was beyond assinine. i just hope all the cities still recovering from those previous "peaceful protests" are not hit with a 2nd wave of opportunism and looting by the very criminals and antifa thugs the 99% of good police do try to protect us from
-
i didn't even want to watch that video. i knew it was going to be BAD...REALLY BAD. i think those rogue cops strayed from the police training manual significantly. those ex-cops ARE going to jail where they belong. that is essentially a death sentence, but...oh well.
the timing of the release of this video was beyond assinine. i just hope all the cities still recovering from those previous "peaceful protests" are not hit with a 2nd wave of opportunism and looting by the very criminals and antifa thugs the 99% of good police do try to protect us from
Lol.
-
You really think 99% of cops are good? More like 20%.
-
I will say what I have said every time this has come up. I worked next to them for over 30 years. I do believe that >90% of cops are good.
Lock these guys up.
-
These guys should and will be in prison for a very long time.
-
Systemic racism in policing is real. Anybody who denies it simply doesn't want to see it.
Also in housing, medicine, academics, business and politics, but those forms of systemic racism are usually more subtle than "rogue" cops harassing, beating and/or murdering people just for being Black.
It is thinking by the likes of roQQet -- who simply can't help but race to "ANTIFA!" and other dog-whistle tropes -- that keeps the systemic racism alive.
I mean, during and immediately after his hero's 1/6/21 coup attempt, roQQet and those who think like him actually tried to blame antifa for it. It must be reassuring to always be able to drum up hatred for big, bad, dark "evildoers" anytime it's convenient.
-
and..... the countdown to the lock begins.
-
i didn't even want to watch that video. i knew it was going to be BAD...REALLY BAD. i think those rogue cops strayed from the police training manual significantly. those ex-cops ARE going to jail where they belong. that is essentially a death sentence, but...oh well.
the timing of the release of this video was beyond assinine. i just hope all the cities still recovering from those previous "peaceful protests" are not hit with a 2nd wave of opportunism and looting by the very criminals and antifa thugs the 99% of good police do try to protect us from
Seconding Sultan’s ‘LOL’.
You probably still believe Antifa was responsible for January 6th.
-
Seconding Sultan’s ‘LOL’.
You probably still believe Antifa was responsible for January 6th.
u know the “fbi” could have stopped it but Hussein didn’t want them too and then the big guy had ice cream aina
-
Systemic racism in policing is real. Anybody who denies it simply doesn't want to see it.
Also in housing, medicine, academics, business and politics, but those forms of systemic racism are usually more subtle than "rogue" cops harassing, beating and/or murdering people just for being Black.
It is thinking by the likes of roQQet -- who simply can't help but race to "ANTIFA!" and other dog-whistle tropes -- that keeps the systemic racism alive.
I mean, during and immediately after his hero's 1/6/21 coup attempt, roQQet and those who think like him actually tried to blame antifa for it. It must be reassuring to always be able to drum up hatred for big, bad, dark "evildoers" anytime it's convenient.
It appears they all parties in this case are of the same race…
-
You really think 99% of cops are good? More like 20%.
Nah, dat's da stat fore politicians, hey?
-
It appears they all parties in this case are of the same race…
So?
-
It appears they all parties in this case are of the same race…
Tell me you don't understand systemic racism without telling me you don't understand systemic racism.
-
It appears they all parties in this case are of the same race…
Yes.
It doesn't matter what race the officers are. If Nichols had been white, he'd almost surely still be alive today. But he was Black, so he was harassed, assaulted and murdered by the police. That's the effen problem -- the racism is embedded within the system, built over decades and decades (centuries, really) of history.
In other words, systemic.
-
Or so says Al Sharpton, hey?
-
Or so says Al Sharpton, hey?
I'd have expected nothing less from you. Bravo for calling out the scary Black man.
Next on the greatest hits: "Reverse racism" is worse than actual racism.
-
What may the outcome have been if the cops were white, hey?
-
What may the outcome have been if the cops were white, hey?
They would have planted a gun?
It would be too early to jump to conclusions?
-
In a shocking turn of events, Fox News host suggests cops aren't to blame and wonders whether Tyre Nichols was "on something."
https://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-host-didn-t-235905518.html
Not to be outdone on the stupidity scale, Jason Whitlock says this all happened because the Memphis police chief is a single Black woman. (The fact that this isn't true seems not to matter,but Jason was never good with facts).
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/jason-whitlock-says-tyre-nichols-died-because-officers-were-supervised-by-a-single-black-woman-which-isnt-even-true/
-
In a shocking turn of events, Fox News host suggests cops aren't to blame and wonders whether Tyre Nichols was "on something."
https://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-host-didn-t-235905518.html
Not to be outdone on the stupidity scale, Jason Whitlock says this all happened because the Memphis police chief is a single Black woman. (The fact that this sin't true seems not to matter,but Jason was never good with facts).
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/jason-whitlock-says-tyre-nichols-died-because-officers-were-supervised-by-a-single-black-woman-which-isnt-even-true/
Whitlock had time to get on Fox for this after complaining all week that ESPN was showing women’s basketball highlights?
-
In a shocking turn of events, Fox News host suggests cops aren't to blame and wonders whether Tyre Nichols was "on something."
https://news.yahoo.com/fox-news-host-didn-t-235905518.html
Not to be outdone on the stupidity scale, Jason Whitlock says this all happened because the Memphis police chief is a single Black woman. (The fact that this isn't true seems not to matter,but Jason was never good with facts).
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/jason-whitlock-says-tyre-nichols-died-because-officers-were-supervised-by-a-single-black-woman-which-isnt-even-true/
Whitlock looking for that Clay Travis money
-
it's about human decency and respect for the other PERSON. when people beat up, shoot, torture, rape, violate another human being, it's wrong wrong WRONG-PERIOD. i don't give a chit what race is involved-why is this so hard. putting race into this just further divides us. we are all against what happened and believe it was obviously wrong. decent, civilized human beings do not do this to each other. don't divide this into race or religion or anything-people should have souls that tell them certain things are just wrong. character defects need to be addressed appropriately
-
it's about human decency and respect for the other PERSON. when people beat up, shoot, torture, rape, violate another human being, it's wrong wrong WRONG-PERIOD. i don't give a chit what race is involved-why is this so hard. putting race into this just further divides us. we are all against what happened and believe it was obviously wrong. decent, civilized human beings do not do this to each other. don't divide this into race or religion or anything-people should have souls that tell them certain things are just wrong. character defects need to be addressed appropriately
The system puts race into it. You're just not willing to acknowledge that it is a factor. We all know who you are already.
-
The system puts race into it. You're just not willing to acknowledge that it is a factor. We all know who you are already.
Race and/or class
-
it's about human decency and respect for the other PERSON. when people beat up, shoot, torture, rape, violate another human being, it's wrong wrong WRONG-PERIOD. i don't give a chit what race is involved-why is this so hard. putting race into this just further divides us. we are all against what happened and believe it was obviously wrong. decent, civilized human beings do not do this to each other. don't divide this into race or religion or anything-people should have souls that tell them certain things are just wrong. character defects need to be addressed appropriately
Rocket over here with his fingers in his ears shouting very loudly.
-
Systemic racism in policing is real. Anybody who denies it simply doesn't want to see it.
Also in housing, medicine, academics, business and politics, but those forms of systemic racism are usually more subtle than "rogue" cops harassing, beating and/or murdering people just for being Black.
It is thinking by the likes of roQQet -- who simply can't help but race to "ANTIFA!" and other dog-whistle tropes -- that keeps the systemic racism alive.
I mean, during and immediately after his hero's 1/6/21 coup attempt, roQQet and those who think like him actually tried to blame antifa for it. It must be reassuring to always be able to drum up hatred for big, bad, dark "evildoers" anytime it's convenient.
Some of your better work here.
-
The system puts race into it. You're just not willing to acknowledge that it is a factor. We all know who you are already.
hardy-you don't know jack! "the system"? kinda like climate change you guys come up with your b.s. and it's all crap you can't quite put your finger on, but just trust us...it's stuff that you guys can't quantitate and it never ever never goes away. no amount of money is ever enough. just keep it coming and you'll tell us when it's all better right
-
hardy-you don't know jack! "the system"? kinda like climate change you guys come up with your b.s. and it's all crap you can't quite put your finger on, but just trust us...it's stuff that you guys can't quantitate and it never ever never goes away. no amount of money is ever enough. just keep it coming and you'll tell us when it's all better right
Someone needs a nap.
-
hardy-you don't know jack! "the system"? kinda like climate change you guys come up with your b.s. and it's all crap you can't quite put your finger on, but just trust us...it's stuff that you guys can't quantitate and it never ever never goes away. no amount of money is ever enough. just keep it coming and you'll tell us when it's all better right
8.5 out of 10
Good work but I’ve seen better
-
hardy-you don't know jack! "the system"? kinda like climate change you guys come up with your b.s. and it's all crap you can't quite put your finger on, but just trust us...it's stuff that you guys can't quantitate and it never ever never goes away. no amount of money is ever enough. just keep it coming and you'll tell us when it's all better right
Is this a parody account?
-
Is this a parody account?
It is, but unintentionally.
-
8.5 out of 10
Good work but I’ve seen better
1:07.24
Not your best race today. Should had your Wheaties.
-
1:07.24
Not your best race today. Should had your Wheaties.
He’ll give me plenty of opportunities
-
1:07.24
Not your best race today. Should had your Wheaties.
that's why they call em the libraries...musta been a 3 wipe'er ey?
-
kinda like climate change you guys come up with your b.s. and it's all crap you can't quite put your finger on, but just trust us
Perfect.
Everyone knows the climate change hoax was conceived in the basement of Comet Ping Pong pizza.
-
Perfect.
Everyone knows the climate change hoax was conceived in the basement of Comet Ping Pong pizza.
2🐷🐷
-
2🐷🐷
Poor pziggy
-
He’ll give me plenty of opportunities
Lol. This is your finest work on Scoop.
-
Social scientists, lawyers and others who deal with racial issues involving police noted how swiftly these Black cops were fired and charged vs. how slowly white cops who commit similar crimes historically have been fired and/or charged.
Even in police policing their own, there appears to be systemic racism.
-
Social scientists, lawyers and others who deal with racial issues involving police noted how swiftly these Black cops were fired and charged vs. how slowly white cops who commit similar crimes historically have been fired and/or charged.
Even in police policing their own, there appears to be systemic racism.
Weren't they fired by the Memphis chief of police who is black? What exactly are the qualifications for being an expert on systemic racism? Are "lawyers, social-scientists, and those that deal with these issues" more qualified than black police chiefs? Every one of these terrible tragedies have been different and obviously we have severe problems. In this case there was pretty much zero doubt regarding the total incompetence of these 5 officers and the blatant disregard for humanity. I don't agree that if there where 5 white/hispanic/asian officers in this case/video that they would not have been terminated immediately.
-
Weren't they fired by the Memphis chief of police who is black? What exactly are the qualifications for being an expert on systemic racism? Are "lawyers, social-scientists, and those that deal with these issues" more qualified than black police chiefs? Every one of these terrible tragedies have been different and obviously we have severe problems. In this case there was pretty much zero doubt regarding the total incompetence of these 5 officers and the blatant disregard for humanity. I don't agree that if there where 5 white/hispanic/asian officers in this case/video that they would not have been terminated immediately.
In previous cases, white officers usually have been given more slack, more time on "administrative leave," more time before video is released, etc.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/28/us/police-tyre-nichols-beating-race.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20230129&instance_id=83979&nl=the-morning®i_id=108420427&segment_id=123846&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
Now, perhaps some of it is an accumulation of things. What I mean is that, as this happens more and as the public awareness is increased, maybe officers of all races will be treated more equally in situations like these because precedence is being set. But the next time a Black man is murdered by cops in a similar case, and if the cops are white, let's see if they are dealt with as quickly and harshly as these Black cops were. Maybe they will be, Muggs, and the tide is finally turning.
-
Weren't they fired by the Memphis chief of police who is black? What exactly are the qualifications for being an expert on systemic racism? Are "lawyers, social-scientists, and those that deal with these issues" more qualified than black police chiefs? Every one of these terrible tragedies have been different and obviously we have severe problems. In this case there was pretty much zero doubt regarding the total incompetence of these 5 officers and the blatant disregard for humanity. I don't agree that if there where 5 white/hispanic/asian officers in this case/video that they would not have been terminated immediately.
An examination of racial differences in the disciplining of police officers in three of the largest U.S. cities consistently found that Black officers were more frequently disciplined for misconduct than white officers, despite an essentially equal number of allegations being leveled. This included allegations of severe misconduct.
https://news.iu.edu/live/news/27199-black-police-officers-disciplined
-
Nah Mike, this was such a blatant case of abuse of power by the police, they would have been fired immediately if they were blue, black, green, or red. As a reminder, these cops are black, the victim is black, the police chief who fired the cops is black, and the mayor is black. Let's not see ghosts where none exist, hey?
-
Nah Mike, this was such a blatant case of abuse of power by the police, they would have been fired immediately if they were blue, black, green, or red. As a reminder, these cops are black, the victim is black, the police chief who fired the cops is black, and the mayor is black. Let's not see ghosts where none exist, hey?
<sigh>
You still don't get it. No one is saying the cops who committed these actions are racist. Or that the police chief is racist. Or that the mayor is racist. If they were, that would be an easier fix. You would simply replace the cops...chief...or mayor with a different person and the problem would be solved.
The problem is that black people are more likely to be the victims of police violence even when normalized for age, gender, location, etc. Here is a study that shows that while white suspects are MORE likely to show signs of mental illness and MORE likely to be armed, the instances of police violence against black victims is greater than white or Hispanic victims.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/21533687211047943
-
It's absolutely true that blacks are more likely to be victims of police violence. I'm not sure anyone is disputing that. The level of competence in our police departments is what concerns me after this incident (and others )as well as overall violent crimes in our cities.
It's a troubling situation and I don't know exactly what to believe as far as the impact of retirements and defunding. What I do know is good/honest people aren't signing up in droves to be cops. We have a multifaceted problem and I haven't read any clear solutions regarding all of these issues. Stating emphatically that police departments are systemically racist or we have 20% good cops aren't exactly what I would call solutions. Even if these are absolute facts.
-
We have more full time law enforcement officers now than we did a decade ago. Yes it is down from its peak, but that's not due to "defunding." Its due to the same factors hitting every workforce across the economy today. People are retiring and there are less people around to take their place.
-
We have more full time law enforcement officers now than we did a decade ago. Yes it is down from its peak, but that's not due to "defunding." Its due to the same factors hitting every workforce across the economy today. People are retiring and there are less people around to take their place.
These 5 cops were inexcusably incompetent criminals and abusive. The insinuations I have read are that this is not that unusual, the race of these cops is irrelevant. So it's not about how many cops we have but whether they are capable and competent and do not engage in ruthless, criminal behavior.
-
We have more full time law enforcement officers now than we did a decade ago. Yes it is down from its peak, but that's not due to "defunding." Its due to the same factors hitting every workforce across the economy today. People are retiring and there are less people around to take their place.
It's also due to fewer people wanting to be cops. A large majority of police departments across the country, big and small, can't fill open positions.
-
It's also due to fewer people wanting to be cops. A large majority of police departments across the country, big and small, can't fill open positions.
We’ve spent decades vilifying public servants for political points and we can’t fill those positions you say?
-
These 5 cops were inexcusably incompetent criminals and abusive. The insinuations I have read are that this is not that unusual, the race of these cops is irrelevant. So it's not about how many cops we have but whether they are capable and competent and do not engage in ruthless, criminal behavior.
Yes.
I spent years playing ball with and against cops in Kenosha - a lot of whom are still friends. I noticed that most fell into one of two categories.
One was made up of those who wanted to be public servants, even who felt a calling to “protect and serve”. The other group was wannabe tough guys who saw cops as enforcers. It’s this second group that cases problems.
-
We have more full time law enforcement officers now than we did a decade ago. Yes it is down from its peak, but that's not due to "defunding." Its due to the same factors hitting every workforce across the economy today. People are retiring and there are less people around to take their place.
What's happened is people, in general, are not being promoted on merit any longer, hey?
-
We’ve spent decades vilifying public servants for political points and we can’t fill those positions you say?
Why are you talking about teachers in this thread?
-
What's happened is people, in general, are not being promoted on merit any longer, hey?
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/BtKa92YP6HIv2spId2/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611603c8d252af1799da42afdd42db498c41611c92d&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
-
What's happened is people, in general, are not being promoted on merit any longer, hey?
What are you talking about?
-
C'mon man, are you so entrenched in education that you can't see the forest for the trees, hey?
-
What are you talking about?
Women. Blacks. Hispanics.
Only mediocre white guys deserve promotions.
-
C'mon man, are you so entrenched in education that you can't see the forest for the trees, hey?
You’re in your own little world.
-
Do you want your heart surgeon to be one of the best and brightest or do you want your heart surgeon to merely be a statistic, hey?
-
Do you want your heart surgeon to be one of the best and brightest or do you want your heart surgeon to merely be a statistic, hey?
Gotta give you your props. You proudly don’t even try to hide it anymore.
-
You’re in your own little world.
Well, you know, he thought Rush Limbaugh was brilliant, so...
-
Do you want your heart surgeon to be one of the best and brightest or do you want your heart surgeon to merely be a statistic, hey?
By whatever measure you want, this country has never been a true meritocracy
-
No one has answered my question. Oh, for thee, but not for me, aina?
-
What's happened is people, in general, are not being promoted on merit any longer, hey?
I actually thought you meant police unions are a huge part of the problem, and I was going to agree wholeheartedly.
-
It's absolutely true that blacks are more likely to be victims of police violence. I'm not sure anyone is disputing that.
Actually, dentists right here in this thread dispute that.
There is systemic racism in law enforcement. On a percentage basis, Black people are more likely to be harassed, beaten and killed by cops. If a Black person and a white person commit the exact same crime, the Black person is more likely to spend time in prison. Once imprisoned, the Black person is less likely to be able to appeal his or her case as successfully as white people who were convicted of the same crime. White people don't routinely get stopped for Driving While Caucasian. White parents don't have to sit their 14-year-old sons down and warn them what could happen to them if they're ever detained by police.
The system is rigged. That's what systemic racism is.
And I don't know the solution either, Muggs. But a good start would be people at least acknowledging the problem (as you're trying to do) rather than contending that everything is the same whether you're "blue, black, green, or red" despite decades and decades worth of statistics showing that to be 100% false.
It might be nice if the knee-jerk reaction didn't include references to antifa and Al Sharpton, but that's asking too much from the aggrieved white folks who just can't catch a break in America.
-
hardy-you don't know jack! "the system"? kinda like climate change you guys come up with your b.s. and it's all crap you can't quite put your finger on, but just trust us...it's stuff that you guys can't quantitate and it never ever never goes away. no amount of money is ever enough. just keep it coming and you'll tell us when it's all better right
woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
-
C’mon, Hards. Do some quantatatin’.
-
Two more Memphis cops have been suspended, including a white cop for unnecessarily tasering Nichols.
Videos also show numerous officers just standing around and/or milling about, watching their criminal buddies murder an unarmed, non-threatening person.
The culture of cops not intervening as their buddies commit heinous crimes against U.S. citizens -- especially people of color -- is alive and well and all part of the systemic racism in policing.
-
Two more Memphis cops have been suspended, including a white cop for unnecessarily tasering Nichols.
Videos also show numerous officers just standing around and/or milling about, watching their criminal buddies murder an unarmed, non-threatening person.
The culture of cops not intervening as their buddies commit heinous crimes against U.S. citizens -- especially people of color -- is alive and well and all part of the systemic racism in policing.
The most disgusting part was the fist bumps congratulating each other for the murder.
Even if convicted, they will be getting off easily with the 2nd degree charge. Obviously it can’t be proven, but I believe that these thugs were predators on the prowl who were out that night to “get” someone.
-
The most disgusting part was the fist bumps congratulating each other for the murder.
Even if convicted, they will be getting off easily with the 2nd degree charge. Obviously it can’t be proven, but I believe that these thugs were predators on the prowl who were out that night to “get” someone.
You think they went out that night looking for someone to murder?
-
You think they went out that night looking for someone to murder?
It's just part of the job.
-
You think they went out that night looking for someone to murder?
Yes I do.
I also realize there is no way to prove it. Hence, 2nd degree murder charges.
-
It's just part of the job.
Good lord. ::) ::)
-
Good lord. ::) ::)
Clearly a joke. Thought you'd see that.
-
If anybody knows jokes that don't land, it is Ziggy.
-
Memphis police chief has quite the history
-
More systemic racism, this time in IRS audits:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/31/us/politics/black-americans-irs-tax-audits.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20230201&instance_id=84209&nl=dealbook®i_id=108420427&segment_id=124077&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
WASHINGTON — Black taxpayers are at least three times as likely to be audited by the Internal Revenue Service as other taxpayers, even after accounting for the differences in the types of returns each group is most likely to file, a team of economists has concluded in one of the most detailed studies yet on race and the nation’s tax system.
The findings do not suggest bias from individual tax enforcement agents, who do not know the race of the people they are auditing. They also do not suggest any valid reason for the I.R.S. to target Black Americans at such high rates; there is no evidence that group engages in more tax evasion than others.
Instead, the findings document discrimination in the computer algorithms the agency uses to determine who is selected for an audit, according to the study by economists from Stanford University, the University of Michigan, the University of Chicago and the Treasury Department.
Some of that discrimination appears to be rooted in decisions that I.R.S. officials made over the past decade as they sought to maintain tax enforcement in the face of budget cuts, by relying on automated systems to select returns for audit.
Those decisions have produced an approach that disproportionately flags tax returns with potential errors in the claiming of certain tax credits, like the earned-income tax credit, which supplements low-income workers’ incomes in an effort to alleviate poverty. Those tax returns are more often selected for audits, regardless of how much in owed taxes the agency might recover.
The result is audit rates of Black Americans that are between three and five times the rate of other taxpayers, even when comparing that group to other taxpayers who also claim the E.I.T.C.
-
More systemic racism, this time in IRS audits:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/31/us/politics/black-americans-irs-tax-audits.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20230201&instance_id=84209&nl=dealbook®i_id=108420427&segment_id=124077&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
WASHINGTON — Black taxpayers are at least three times as likely to be audited by the Internal Revenue Service as other taxpayers, even after accounting for the differences in the types of returns each group is most likely to file, a team of economists has concluded in one of the most detailed studies yet on race and the nation’s tax system.
The findings do not suggest bias from individual tax enforcement agents, who do not know the race of the people they are auditing. They also do not suggest any valid reason for the I.R.S. to target Black Americans at such high rates; there is no evidence that group engages in more tax evasion than others.
Instead, the findings document discrimination in the computer algorithms the agency uses to determine who is selected for an audit, according to the study by economists from Stanford University, the University of Michigan, the University of Chicago and the Treasury Department.
Some of that discrimination appears to be rooted in decisions that I.R.S. officials made over the past decade as they sought to maintain tax enforcement in the face of budget cuts, by relying on automated systems to select returns for audit.
Those decisions have produced an approach that disproportionately flags tax returns with potential errors in the claiming of certain tax credits, like the earned-income tax credit, which supplements low-income workers’ incomes in an effort to alleviate poverty. Those tax returns are more often selected for audits, regardless of how much in owed taxes the agency might recover.
The result is audit rates of Black Americans that are between three and five times the rate of other taxpayers, even when comparing that group to other taxpayers who also claim the E.I.T.C.
But, but…, white people. What about white people?
-
What's happened is people, in general, are not being promoted on merit any longer, hey?
Couldn’t agree with this more. It’s now been centuries that white Christian men have been given job opportunities only because they were another white Christian man, or through a family connection, rather than on merit. Glad there’s a a strong movement afoot to put an end to that—the handouts are over.