MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Galway Eagle on January 26, 2023, 09:59:44 AM
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Is anyone tracking Kolek's chances of breaking Tony's record? If Kolek stays four years I think he could actually do it and that seemed like the most untouchable, non McIlvaine, record that MU has.
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Is anyone tracking Kolek's chances of breaking Tony's record? If Kolek stays four years I think he could actually do it and that seemed like the most untouchable, non McIlvaine, record that MU has.
Markus Howard's scoring record. Unless seasons continue to get longer (more games) and/or more worldwide pandemics hit and give players extra years of eligibility.
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Markus Howard's scoring record. Unless seasons continue to get loner (more games) and/or more worldwide pandemics hit and give players extra years of eligiblity.
I should've specified that I meant long standing record. I agree that was a very special set of long leash, & skilled player not having NBA body.
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Kolek has 353 Marquette assists (and another 50 from his time at George Mason). He had 188 last year and has 165 so far. There's about a third of the season left, so maybe he gets another 100 to reach a total of about 450 through two years.
Miller had 956.
That's within range, assuming he stays healthy and continues to get about 250 assists per season. Playing more games in March can only help. My guess is he is chasing that record in the early spring of '25, but wouldn't crack it until the Big East tourney or later.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/marquette/leaders-and-records-career.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tyler-kolek-1.html
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The fact that Tony Miller had THAT many assists in a Kevin O'Neill offense is something.
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The fact that Tony Miller had THAT many assists in a Kevin O'Neill offense is something.
Most important player of the KO era
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I recently suggested that Kolek had a shot and then looked at the numbers. Miller’s record is likely safe forever. It’s amazing how many assists he had. Kolek certainly can get to second place but it’s highly unlikely he can pass him. TK can score a lot more than Tony which is a huge difference.
Tony Miller was a huge part of the rebirth of the program under KO. Very underrated. Pure PG.
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https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/marquette/leaders-and-records-career.html
Thanks for this link. A lot of really interesting stuff on there. Amazing that three guys from the same recruiting class are three of top four in minutes played in the program's history. Those guys were awesome.
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I recently suggested that Kolek had a shot and then looked at the numbers. Miller’s record is likely safe forever. It’s amazing how many assists he had. Kolek certainly can get to second place but it’s highly unlikely he can pass him. TK can score a lot more than Tony which is a huge difference.
Tony Miller was a huge part of the rebirth of the program under KO. Very underrated. Pure PG.
Kolek is projected to get 260 assists this regular season. Tony's record is 274. With the BET and NCAA to assure at least two more games, he can break or tie it.
Career-wise, Kolek would project to have 896+. With post season runs, he could conceivably beat 956 if he stays those last two years, barring injury. Will depend on the post season runs.
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I'll bet Miller keeps the assist record and Kolek wins more games in the NCAA.
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I recently suggested that Kolek had a shot and then looked at the numbers. Miller’s record is likely safe forever. It’s amazing how many assists he had. Kolek certainly can get to second place but it’s highly unlikely he can pass him. TK can score a lot more than Tony which is a huge difference.
Tony Miller was a huge part of the rebirth of the program under KO. Very underrated. Pure PG.
[/quoteTony was awesome. One of my favorites at the point.
Other great ones;
Sam Worthen
Mandy Johnson
Kolek
Dick Nixon
Lloyd Walton
And others I can't think of
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I think Kolek will leave as Marquette's all-time assist leader if he is healthy and takes the COVID year. If he gets better between now and then, he may leave with Hurley's record too.
The way this offense is set up is tailor made for someone like Kolek. As long as he's willing to defer and they surround him with people could finish, he could really put up some crazy numbers.
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I'll bet Miller keeps the assist record and Kolek wins more games in the NCAA.
If he does the latter, he will break the former.
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Dr. B
As much I as I love Kolek, I hope he is doing something far bigger than playing at MU two years down the road. I was basing my comments off on additional season, not two.
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Dr. B
As much I as I love Kolek, I hope he is doing something far bigger than playing at MU two years down the road. I was basing my comments off on additional season, not two.
Ok. I was basing my assessment that he will stay, as he stated in the podcast.
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Ok. I was basing my assessment that he will stay, as he stated in the podcast.
When Shaka said TK has two more years of eligibility after this, felt like a good indicator he'd be here for both.
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Kolek only has a chance to beat Miller, if MU stops losing the first games in Big East tournament and NCAA tournament.
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https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/marquette/leaders-and-records-career.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tyler-kolek-1.html
Amazing that Lazar is the all-time leader in offensive rebounds and also defensive rebounds, but still trails Don Kojis in total rebounds…
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I’m probably going to regret asking this because I’m sure it’s obvious and I’m just not thinking enough, but what other kinds of rebounds are there? How is Lazar not in 1st place in total rebounds if he’s got the most offensive and defensive rebounds?
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Maybe they didn’t track offensive or defensive rebounds and simply had a single “rebound” stat. The Warrior fans will have to confirm or deny.
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I’m probably going to regret asking this because I’m sure it’s obvious and I’m just not thinking enough, but what other kinds of rebounds are there? How is Lazar not in 1st place in total rebounds if he’s got the most offensive and defensive rebounds?
Grabbing the "EASY" Rebounds?? 8-)
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Kolek only has a chance to beat Miller, if MU stops losing the first games in Big East tournament and NCAA tournament.
That would help, but it's not true. He's on pace for 259 this year if we play 33 games (1 BET, 1 NCAA/NIT). If he were to play two more 33-game seasons at that same average, he would pass Miller as a senior with a couple games to spare.
That's why Kolek has a legitimate shot at Hurley's career record. If TK keeps this same exact average for 2 more years, he would finish at 1,015 assists, just 61 shy of Hurley's all-time NCAA record. That's with ZERO postseason wins.
But if he improved his game or did win some postseason games? He could fly by that career number.
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That would help, but it's not true. He's on pace for 259 this year if we play 33 games (1 BET, 1 NCAA/NIT). If he were to play two more 33-game seasons at that same average, he would pass Miller as a senior with a couple games to spare.
That's why Kolek has a legitimate shot at Hurley's career record. If TK keeps this same exact average for 2 more years, he would finish at 1,015 assists, just 61 shy of Hurley's all-time NCAA record. That's with ZERO postseason wins.
But if he improved his game or did win some postseason games? He could fly by that career number.
Did you include the 50 from his time at George Mason in that calculation?
I think the COVID year is going to put a lot of records in jeopardy. We've already seen the guy from Detroit Mercy jump into second on the points list behind Pistol Pete.
If they had given Markus a COVID year he might have had a shot at Maravich too. Just seems unfair
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Did you include the 50 from his time at George Mason in that calculation?
I think the COVID year is going to put a lot of records in jeopardy. We've already seen the guy from Detroit Mercy jump into second on the points list behind Pistol Pete.
If they had given Markus a COVID year he might have had a shot at Maravich too. Just seems unfair
When it comes to the Marquette record, I don't factor his GMU assists, but when it comes to Hurley's record, absolutely.
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That would help, but it's not true. He's on pace for 259 this year if we play 33 games (1 BET, 1 NCAA/NIT). If he were to play two more 33-game seasons at that same average, he would pass Miller as a senior with a couple games to spare.
That's why Kolek has a legitimate shot at Hurley's career record. If TK keeps this same exact average for 2 more years, he would finish at 1,015 assists, just 61 shy of Hurley's all-time NCAA record. That's with ZERO postseason wins.
But if he improved his game or did win some postseason games? He could fly by that career number.
Miller's best season was 274 assists.
Kolek 33 games @ 8 per game=264
Kolek had 188 assists his first year at MU. Miller had 221+215+274+248. It may be possible, but I believe Kolek will not beat best season or total assists records without post season wins.
What happens, if Kolek plays four years at MU? Currently he listed as having 188 assists as a sophomore. Does his first year get changed to freshmen stats or is going to have two senior stats?
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Miller's best season was 274 assists.
Kolek 33 games @ 8 per game=264
Kolek had 188 assists his first year at MU. Miller had 221+215+274+248. It may be possible, but I believe Kolek will not beat best season or total assists records without post season wins.
What happens, if Kolek plays four years at MU? Currently he listed as having 188 assists as a sophomore. Does his first year get changed to freshmen stats or is going to have two senior stats?
I believe that for MU record purposes they only factor in games at MU (wasn't this the case with Rowsey and scoring?)
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I believe that for MU record purposes they only factor in games at MU (wasn't this the case with Rowsey and scoring?)
Correct, Rowesy comes in the MU record book ranked 40th, with only two years of scoring included.
For those who played before freshmen were eligible, the record book also excludes freshman scoring.
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I believe that for MU record purposes they only factor in games at MU (wasn't this the case with Rowsey and scoring?)
Sucks that they don't include road games
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Miller's best season was 274 assists.
Kolek 33 games @ 8 per game=264
Kolek had 188 assists his first year at MU. Miller had 221+215+274+248. It may be possible, but I believe Kolek will not beat best season or total assists records without post season wins.
What happens, if Kolek plays four years at MU? Currently he listed as having 188 assists as a sophomore. Does his first year get changed to freshmen stats or is going to have two senior stats?
Postseason matters, but so does development. Assuming 31 league games, one BET, and one postseason (NCAA/NIT) the next two years, TK would need to average greater than 8.33 assists for one of the next two seasons (8.33 x 33 = 274) to break the single season record.
But if he keeps up his exact current pace for 2 years at 33 games per year, that's 259 each of the next three years. 259 x 3 + 188 = 965, which means his current pace puts him on a 4 year trajectory ahead of Miller (956) for career without any improvement or postseason play beyond two games per year.
Then for career, the 50 from GMU get that up to 1,015 which puts him 61 away from Bobby Hurley's career record of 1,076. And again, that's with flatline improvement and minimal postseason opportunities. Give TK a little bit of improvement and/or a bit of postseason play and he could leave as the NCAA's all-time assist leader.
It's entirely possible this team will end up playing 35 (one BET & one NCAA win) games this year, which puts him exactly on pace for 275, passing Miller's single season record. Then what if they play 35 each of the next two years, but he averages 8.4 next year (294) and 9.0 in his COVID year (315)? That, along with the GMU numbers, puts him well past Hurley (1,123).
It's premature to think about all-time records, but he's on pace for 259 this year with no postseason wins, and if he managed to play two extra postseason games is on pace to pass Miller this year. And if this year isn't his peak, all-time great stuff really is on the table.
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I’m probably going to regret asking this because I’m sure it’s obvious and I’m just not thinking enough, but what other kinds of rebounds are there? How is Lazar not in 1st place in total rebounds if he’s got the most offensive and defensive rebounds?
So does anybody know answer to above?
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So does anybody know answer to above?
Rebounds were first officially recorded in the NBA during the 1950–51 season. Both offensive and defensive rebounds were first officially recorded in the NBA during the 1973–74 season and ABA during the 1967–68 season.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_(basketball)
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_(basketball)
Thank you sir
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Amazing that Lazar is the all-time leader in offensive rebounds and also defensive rebounds, but still trails Don Kojis in total rebounds…
Kojis was the man at MU back in the day. Not bad for a 6'4" power forward. My first favorite of a long list of MU players.