MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on November 21, 2022, 09:47:57 PM
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1. Anyone who said MU's defense isn't any good... you're dumb.
2. The offense. Hit open shots and nobody complains. Alas.
3. Rebounding. It is an issue. It will be an issue.
4. We finally saw the reason for the Sean excitement.
5. Gold and Keeyan are going to have to figure it out. Going small with Omax and Joplin is not going to work in large doses.
6. Like last year, no quit.
7. A couple of calls at the end that didn't go MU's way.
8. A slog. In the end, the lack of a go to scorer hurt.
9. Weird game for Kolek.
10. There for the taking again. Hit open looks and this team will win a lot of games.
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as usual, another year with an MU team that will excite because of the potential; they will win some games not expected to win. And also lose some close ones they should be winning.
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Shaka is no better of a coach than Wojo, and he's a worse recruiter.
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Good effort all game from the young men
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Not sure I loved pulling Oso after his 4th with under 4 minutes to go. Joplin was terrible tonight and led to some offensive rebounds.
Not sure why Sean Jones was pulled. Made a nice run with him in there. He’s fun to watch.
Didn’t love Kolek to the rim down 3 with 30 seconds left.
Good fight. Hope we add some big guys and shooters going forward.
Oh. Get rid of the charge in basketball. It’s horrible and Refs don’t know how to call it.
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Roster construction is becoming a big ol' red siren.
Can't be this three heavy without getting some freaking deadeye shooters.
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Shaka is no better of a coach than Wojo, and he's a worse recruiter.
You’re a sad, pathetic little man.
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Optimism for this season is draining with every chuck from Kam from 35 feet 5 seconds into the shot clock and with every Kolek stupid pass (yes I know he hit 4 3’s tonight).
The Shaka team - play like crap to start a game, rally to take a lead, fold down the stretch.
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Kolek made a bunch of shots down the stretch but the 4 turns he had were absolutely killers and beyond sloppy. Can't happen down the stretch of we're going to close games.
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OMax is an enigma. He will make a great hustle play, steal or rebound, and immediately follow it with a turnover. His spatial awareness is beyond awful and I'm not sure you can teach that.
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Sean Jones needs to start - period....
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10. There for the taking again. Hit open looks and this team will win a lot of games.
Therein lies the rub.
This seems not to be a team capable of hitting open looks consistently.
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Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory twice in the last week. That's what separates NCAA from NIT teams.
Kam needs to stop with the 30-footers. Someone needs to give Oso a breather. Sean is super exciting to watch. End of the day, worst sports day since I don't know.
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Kolek had the inverse of his usual game - he was a nonfactor as a passer and careless with the ball, but shot it well. Maddening, yet encouraging because we know he's a great passer, and tonights shooting could jump start him for the rest of the year.
Frustrating loss for sure, but an absolute slugfest of a game. Big night for Sean Jones and his confidence. I like this team, and feel we will be an NCAA team. Our guards can guard. Kam and Jop will be better offensively.
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Rebounding and lapses on hustle plays. Lack of awareness too, getting stripped from behind a number of times. Defense kept us in the game early, could have bern 20 at the half very easily. Two not very good teams.
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Kolek made a bunch of shots down the stretch but the 4 turns he had were absolutely killers and beyond sloppy. Can't happen down the stretch of we're going to close games.
His one to Omax with 1:30 was a killer. The other one the Oso was bad too. Nice to see him hit some shots though. Think S Jones needs to be the PG and kolek off guard.
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Is Wrightsil ever going to play? Is he that bad? We needed a little more size down low and Jop wasn't cutting it at all.
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I just don't think your number 10 is gonna happen too much. team lacks shooters. we have had a couple guys get hot at times, yet still lacked poise and lost down the stretch. the talent needed to be upgraded in the offseason and this did not happen. lets face it, this isn't a good basketball team
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Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory twice in the last week. That's what separates NCAA from NIT teams.
Kam needs to stop with the 30-footers. Someone needs to give Oso a breather. Sean is super exciting to watch. End of the day, worst sports day since I don't know.
Brew,
I think Shaka can eliminate the 35 foot threes from Kam and the sloppy turns down the stretch. Poise and execution have to be better.
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Is Wrightsil ever going to play? Is he that bad? We needed a little more size down low and Jop wasn't cutting it at all.
I think he was a scratch before the game.
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Shaka is no better of a coach than Wojo, and he's a worse recruiter.
Trolling was cool in 2015.
unnatural carnal knowledge off.
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Trolling was cool in 2015.
unnatural carnal knowledge off.
Wow I just realized that the f bomb is changed to this automatically.
The internet is undefeated
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Is Wrightsil ever going to play? Is he that bad? We needed a little more size down low and Jop wasn't cutting it at all.
i think he's hurt, but from what we've watched maybe that bad too unfortunately
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"Hit open shots and no one complains." They have what, 25 games left, be prepared for lots of complaints.
8 for 28 on threes for 28% shooting. Same old, same old and it will not change under this regime, lack of shooters or not.
Kolek had good shooting night, but his three turnovers in last four minutes gave up six points.
Told you Tolu Smith be a problem. 16 rebounds to help MSU with a 42 to 30 advantage, but the big issue was offensive rebounds 15 to 5. Wait till UCONN and Sanogo, oh my....
Oso, Joplin and Prosper with 7 points going 1 for 8 from three.
Sean Jones had coming out, but will he steal minutes from Kolek and Mitchell. He actually played a lot with Kolek and it worked out except for Kolek turnovers at the end.
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His one to Omax with 1:30 was a killer. The other one the Oso was bad too. Nice to see him hit some shots though. Think S Jones needs to be the PG and kolek off guard.
Kolek needs to be the PG for his passing and floor management. We can’t win with him as the leading scorer.
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Think S Jones needs to be the PG and kolek off guard.
No, just the opposite is true.
No matter how much people here wish it to be so, Kolek is not an off the ball player.
And nothing we've seen from Jones indicates he can distribute and run an offe se.
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Kolek had the inverse of his usual game - he was a nonfactor as a passer and careless with the ball, but shot it well. Maddening, yet encouraging because we know he's a great passer, and tonights shooting could jump start him for the rest of the year.
Frustrating loss for sure, but an absolute slugfest of a game. Big night for Sean Jones and his confidence. I like this team, and feel we will be an NCAA team. Our guards can guard. Kam and Jop will be better offensively.
I think our defense was really good tonight but I'm not sure Miss St. is great offensively. This loss hurts because the opportunity was right there.
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Is Wrightsil ever going to play? Is he that bad? We needed a little more size down low and Jop wasn't cutting it at all.
When they signed Wrightsil I thought he’d be able to fill in and provide some experienced depth down low. He’s the shortest 6’7 I’ve ever seen. He’s in the Jose Perez and Harry Froling category.
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We saw a lot of effective hard work on defense.
We saw poor 3-pt. shooting vs. good D.
There will be nights when the 3-shooters are hot, and that will be good.
The inside game and the opposition's O-rebounding will kill us long term.
This year will be less satisfying than last year.
If we want to make a jump we'll need a big in transfer.
So sick of working our ass off to fall short.
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Forgot. End-of-game strategy/execution needs to improve to steal a couple. Sick of the late fade.
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The size mismatch jumped off the screen tonight and really showed in the rebounding numbers. Let’s hope Al Amadou is the truth, otherwise it’s going to be a frustrating next few years for MU.
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The wide open corner threes in particular are the shots we really need to convert. And Shaka needs to reign in Kam's bombs frankly.
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Do you think Shaka will rein in Kam Jones bombs or let him go off all year?
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The wide open corner threes in particular are the shots we really need to convert. And Shaka needs to reign in Kam's bombs frankly.
Problem is, Muggs, who shoots instead?
Tyler opened it up tonight, big surprise.
Sean opened it up driving to the hoop, as did Kam, he even shot a free throw!
Marquette still lost though.
Shoot like crap from 3 when you take a lot of 3s and you lose, fairly simple
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There are legit concerns but also a lot of hyperbole and overreaction here.
However, it does look like Shaka not bringing in another legitimate big might be a big mistake.
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You either have to make shots or draw lots of fouls. Marquette did neither.
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Have to play a complete game. Faded down the stretch against Purdue, and the 1st half tonight was, well, the first half tonight.
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Problem is, Muggs, who shoots instead?
Tyler opened it up tonight, big surprise.
Sean opened it up driving to the hoop, as did Kam, he even shot a free throw!
Marquette still lost though.
Shoot like crap from 3 when you take a lot of 3s and you lose, fairly simple
I think all of our guys should have the confidence to take and hopefully make open shots. Joplin is inconsistent but he didn't get quality looks tonight. My take is if any of our perimeter guys can get an open catch and shoot it's s better shot that Kam launching early in the shot clock from 35 feet.
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Triple Arby's day.
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There are legit concerns but also a lot of hyperbole and overreaction here.
However, it does look like Shaka not bringing in another legitimate big might be a big mistake.
I really don’t understand how Shaka thought he could get away with Iterjere and Gold as his backup 5s. I get wanting to play small, but you need at least two guys on the roster who can plausibly guard a 6’9 big man.
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Philosophically I'm more aligned with Shaka than any coach I've watched at Marquette. What they want to do, how they want to play, is what I want to watch. Space, pace, movement, tough-ass defense, threes.
But so far, I have to admit, I'm concerned about how well they're recruiting to that philosophy. Consistently undersized, very few guys who can make plays at that speed, even fewer that can make outside shots consistently.
I hope I look like a jackass for posting this in a few years but it's hard to see where the help is coming from in the near term.
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There are legit concerns but also a lot of hyperbole and overreaction here.
However, it does look like Shaka not bringing in another legitimate big might be a big mistake.
No overreaction necessary.
MU lost a tough road game at Purdue closer than they “should have”
Then they lost a neutral game about where they “should have”
They were picked 9th in conference.
As for Shaka- defense looks the part and that’s great.
There is quite a bit of ‘smoke and mirrors’ early imo.
Like Tyler’s passing ability got exposed as the season wore on and teams adjusted.
Like the rebounding being “better” so far this season.
All Marquettes reach equilibrium.
That said, the Zach Wrightsil move will be a tough one for Shaka to overcome.
He saw something, and I don’t care what level you play at when you are PoY you have something, so hopefully Zach brings it during BE play- I’ll go on record as I think he will. I don’t think he will be was shaka hoped or fans hoped, but I still think he brings it.
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I think all of our guys should have the confidence to take and hopefully make open shots. Joplin is inconsistent but he didn't get quality looks tonight. My take is if any of our perimeter guys can get an open catch and shoot it's s better shot that Kam launching early in the shot clock from 35 feet.
Ok I guess getting Jop better looks is a start. Beyond that, we don’t have much of a play if few others are a threat
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Kolek needs to be the PG for his passing and floor management. We can’t win with him as the leading scorer.
Agees but we also need Kolek to hit open shots because that keeps defenses honest.
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I really enjoyed the game. After 7 years of Wojo defense I enjoy being able to hang in a rock fight.
Mississippi State is a very good defensive team. All Jans teams are. One more of those open threes goes down and we win the game.
The defense was very very good. Mississippi state isn't an all-world offensive team by any stretch but we shut them down for long stretches multiple times. We did an excellent job keeping Tulo Smith from scoring....but the rebounding was the down fall today.
I like when Kolek makes his threes. Wish he could do it without back breaking TOs in the final minutes.
I came away encouraged. We're going to win a lot of games in the Big East this season. I think we can beat Bucky and the Domers too. Unfortunately, BEast underperformance in the non-con is going to give us a very narrow path to dancing.
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Do you think Shaka will rein in Kam Jones bombs or let him go off all year?
I do not know what Shaka thinks, but I would start Sean Jones over Kam Jones.
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I really enjoyed the game. After 7 years of Wojo defense I enjoy being able to hang in a rock fight.
Mississippi State is a very good defensive team. All Jans teams are. One more of those open threes goes down and we win the game.
The defense was very very good. Mississippi state isn't an all-world offensive team by any stretch but we shut them down for long stretches multiple times. We did an excellent job keeping Tulo Smith from scoring....but the rebounding was the down fall today.
I like when Kolek makes his threes. Wish he could do it without back breaking TOs in the final minutes.
I came away encouraged. We're going to win a lot of games in the Big East this season. I think we can beat Bucky and the Domers too. Unfortunately, BEast underperformance in the non-con is going to give us a very narrow path to dancing.
Well said.
I felt much of the same.
Unfortunately it’s going to take a lot of wins to dance. Let’s start with wins on Wednesday and over Wisconsin and ND to give MU an extra loss or two in conf to work with.
Otherwise it’ll take 10/11 conf wins to dance I’d imagine
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Philosophically I'm more aligned with Shaka than any coach I've watched at Marquette. What they want to do, how they want to play, is what I want to watch. Space, pace, movement, tough-ass defense, threes.
But so far, I have to admit, I'm concerned about how well they're recruiting to that philosophy. Consistently undersized, very few guys who can make plays at that speed, even fewer that can make outside shots consistently.
I hope I look like a jackass for posting this in a few years but it's hard to see where the help is coming from in the near term.
Fair points. If we do not have guys that can make plays and open shots it's very tough sledding.. It's the WIDE OPEN misses that can really drive me up the wall.
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Is Wrightsil ever going to play? Is he that bad? We needed a little more size down low and Jop wasn't cutting it at all.
Have you watched him?
Yeah, he is really that bad.
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When they signed Wrightsil I thought he’d be able to fill in and provide some experienced depth down low. He’s the shortest 6’7 I’ve ever seen. He’s in the Jose Perez and Harry Froling category.
I felt the same. I didn't expect a lot but with his experienced and a little size I was hoping he would be helping out under the basket.
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Have you watched him?
Yeah, he is really that bad.
I missed the LIU game where he's played most of his time thus far.
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What a shock, a 4 year NAIA player can’t play at this level. There’s a reason people he toiled four years at the NAIA level.
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I worry about what it says about our program that we’re encouraged by a neutral court loss to a Mississippi State team coming off a season that resulted in the firing of their coach. A team picked to finish 10th in their conference.
I can take a moral victory if we lose a 3 point game at Baylor. Heck even at Purdue. Those are winning, good basketball programs. We lost a neutral court game, with 90% of the crowd behind us, to Mississippi State and their first year (at MS State) head coach.
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Kolek had a rough night passing. MSU was an aggressive team on both ends of the floor. The concern is the offensive sets are doing what they are supposed to: get us open looks. We had enough open looks. We missed the open shots consistently. When the plan is to be 3 ball crazy and you don’t have consistent reliable 3 ball shooters - well that’s a problem.
And rebounding. There were a couple of defensive rebounds in the last 5 minutes where we were lazy and slow to the ball. The announcers even said it. That is unacceptable and Shaka should be on fire about that. Could cost games. Does cost games.
The good part is this team fights to the end despite their shortcomings and gets so close. f a few things can be adjusted, we could be a good team. But this was a game, when we were up 4 and had the ball - that should have been put away and won by MU.
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Also I had this complaint last year. But if we’re going to be a pick and roll offense, the screener needs to hit someone. Ball handlers are running 3 feet away from the screener and the defender doesn’t even have to go under the screen to avoid it (even with our poor shooting).
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I worry about what it says about our program that we’re encouraged by a neutral court loss to a Mississippi State team coming off a season that resulted in the firing of their coach. A team picked to finish 10th in their conference.
I can take a moral victory if we lose a 3 point game at Baylor. Heck even at Purdue. Those are winning, good basketball programs. We lost a neutral court game, with 90% of the crowd behind us, to Mississippi State and their first year (at MS State) head coach.
I watch a lot of college basketball but context is key here.
Why did they fire their coach? Why are they ranked so much higher than Marquette in the first year under a new coach, when Marquette is seemingly a higher level program?
I appreciate your context btw, because it’s important to know the whole story
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There are legit concerns but also a lot of hyperbole and overreaction here.
However, it does look like Shaka not bringing in another legitimate big might be a big mistake.
It was pretty easy to see that this would happen, too. It was a costly recruiting miscalculation (or whiff) by Shaka.
We play good enough D to hang in there, but it's dispiriting to force a bad shot, not get the board, force another miss, not get the board again, force yet another miss, and again fail to get the rebound.
Most of the stats were as close as one would expect in a one-possession game. Hard to believe given how cold we were, but we actually shot better than they did (41% to 36%) and hit more 3s than they did (8 to 7). And each team had 16 turnovers.
But Miss St had 12 second-chance points to 0 for Marquette ... and that's the game.
Our personnel is not gonna change -- Justin Lewis ain't walkin' back through that door -- so I hope we do some other things to compensate for what will be a season-long problem. Mainly, we need to force more TOs, convert those into easy buckets, and hit more 3s in our half-court offense. Easier said than done.
I'm trying like heck to stay positive, like Wiz is (good post, TAMU). For one thing, I remember how many Scoopers gave up on last year's team in December. And we're only 5 games into this one. But this wasn't a "good loss," and I'm having trouble being encouraged by it.
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Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory twice in the last week. That's what separates NCAA from NIT teams.
Kam needs to stop with the 30-footers. Someone needs to give Oso a breather. Sean is super exciting to watch. End of the day, worst sports day since I don't know.
You had faith in Greg 😂
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Also I had this complaint last year. But if we’re going to be a pick and roll offense, the screener needs to hit someone. Ball handlers are running 3 feet away from the screener and the defender doesn’t even have to go under the screen to avoid it (even with our poor shooting).
Yes I’ve noticed this.
Screener always dips out early without a bump. Ball handler typically unable to shoot a quick 3 doesn’t help.
There was a possession in the 2H where, early in the shot clock, Tyler got the ball at the top of the key with a big on him like 3 feet off and he canned one.
That was the best offensive play of that game imo, because the way this team is designed it needs that
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I worry about what it says about our program that we’re encouraged by a neutral court loss to a Mississippi State team coming off a season that resulted in the firing of their coach. A team picked to finish 10th in their conference.
I can take a moral victory if we lose a 3 point game at Baylor. Heck even at Purdue. Those are winning, good basketball programs. We lost a neutral court game, with 90% of the crowd behind us, to Mississippi State and their first year (at MS State) head coach.
Listen, Ted Cruz knows basketball.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPjJEli3B-_LhKWVGm6-xQmfEyLtjXQoDCbQ&usqp=CAU)
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That wide-open 3 at the top of the key we gave up in the first half off the inbounds with 2 seconds left on the shotclock just popped into my head.
Woof.
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Me watching Kam chuck from 30 feet.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/425bc0524f8c2d21a0c11e8f375e7040/tenor.gif)
Shaka needs to rein that in somehow.
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That wide-open 3 at the top of the key we gave up in the first half off the inbounds with 2 seconds left on the shotclock just popped into my head.
Woof.
It’s almost as if wanted to allow the center who was 4/21 from three over the past two years to take that shot.
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It’s almost as if wanted to allow the center who was 4/21 from three over the past two years to take that shot.
You are giving them too much credit there. It was like they were completely not ready for the inbound. Even the announcers commented on it.
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It’s almost as if wanted to allow the center who was 4/21 from three over the past two years to take that shot.
Yeah, that wasn’t what happened.
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I really enjoyed the game. After 7 years of Wojo defense I enjoy being able to hang in a rock fight.
Mississippi State is a very good defensive team. All Jans teams are. One more of those open threes goes down and we win the game.
The defense was very very good. Mississippi state isn't an all-world offensive team by any stretch but we shut them down for long stretches multiple times. We did an excellent job keeping Tulo Smith from scoring....but the rebounding was the down fall today.
I like when Kolek makes his threes. Wish he could do it without back breaking TOs in the final minutes.
I came away encouraged. We're going to win a lot of games in the Big East this season. I think we can beat Bucky and the Domers too. Unfortunately, BEast underperformance in the non-con is going to give us a very narrow path to dancing.
This is how I feel as well. I’m not discouraged yet. I also believe we beat Wisconsin and ND. Baylor on the other hand could be a disaster.
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You’re a sad, pathetic little man.
I'm rusty on my scoop lore, that's Chicos right?
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Sean Jones needs to start - period....
Enough said sir.
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Classic scoop. Freshman scores two baskets, anoint him.
It was good to finally see what the hype was about. He played well.
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Therein lies the rub.
This seems not to be a team capable of hitting open looks consistently.
And yet our non-shooters have no qualms about firing threes early in the shot clock. Kam needs to look for the ball at 25 feet, not 30.
Mississippi State tried to hand us that game. Missed a ton of no-footers and FTs. But we couldn't take it. Very frustrating loss.
Defense was very good, but on the offensive end we need more ball movement, less dribbling and more forays into the lane with kickouts. We're not great 3 point shooters, so we shouldn't rely on them so much.
After 4 games I didn't think all that much of Sean Jones, but wow, he looked great last night.
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Classic scoop. Freshman scores two baskets, anoint him.
Sir, that's kind of been my shtick.
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You had faith in Greg 😂
Who's Greg? Are you talking about Gregg?
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Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory twice in the last week. That's what separates NCAA from NIT teams.
Kam needs to stop with the 30-footers. Someone needs to give Oso a breather. Sean is super exciting to watch. End of the day, worst sports day since I don't know.
give Oso a breather? I agree. But, who? That player isn’t on the roster.
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Opponents: So this is the plan. Keep Marquette out of the paint. Let them chuck 3s (bricks). We win.
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give Oso a breather? I agree. But, who? That player isn’t on the roster.
Well, Shaka better substitute Gold or Itjere for Oso. They are certainly not going to gain experience or contribute by sitting on the bench.
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I really enjoyed the game. After 7 years of Wojo defense I enjoy being able to hang in a rock fight.
Mississippi State is a very good defensive team. All Jans teams are. One more of those open threes goes down and we win the game.
The defense was very very good. Mississippi state isn't an all-world offensive team by any stretch but we shut them down for long stretches multiple times. We did an excellent job keeping Tulo Smith from scoring....but the rebounding was the down fall today.
I like when Kolek makes his threes. Wish he could do it without back breaking TOs in the final minutes.
I came away encouraged. We're going to win a lot of games in the Big East this season. I think we can beat Bucky and the Domers too. Unfortunately, BEast underperformance in the non-con is going to give us a very narrow path to dancing.
I did too. The season is long and maybe we finish stronger than we start for a change.
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Well, Shaka better substitute Gold or Itjere for Oso. They are certainly not going to gain experience or contribute by sitting on the bench.
Gold played two minutes last night. He plays away from the basket, usually facing it on offense in order to shoot a three. Not working well for him because he hit his first three, missed his next 9 and is 2 for 11 on season. Forget his defense on opposing centers.
Keeyan was the pre season hit on the fluffy video highlights put out by MU. Allocades went out for his athletic ability, his motor, etc. Yet he sits. Is he really that bad even though he sat out a year to improve. Guess the staff sees it as that.
The recruit Amadou is 6ft 9 and weighs 180. Waiting for the Todd Smith will get him bigger reactions.......and the "under the radar" recruiting aspect.
The games against Wisconsin and Baylor with their bigs and the BE gauntlet with Sanago, Soriano, Dixon, Nunge, Kalkbrenner, Croswell, Fremantle and others should be very interesting. Especially if Oso picks up two quick fouls. Everyone knew the rebounding will be an issue because even with Justin Lewis last year, they got pummeled on the boards.
Hope some rebounds go their way as season progresses and maybe get a few points scored.
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The game was lost in the first half when the offense was pretty much just chucking up threes, many early in the shot clock. The second half was better when they started getting into the paint. Kolek’s shooting was encouraging, but he needs to stop with the ‘look at me’ passes - they are doing more harm than good. And rebounding needs to be a five man effort.
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Gold played two minutes last night. He plays away from the basket, usually facing it on offense in order to shoot a three. Not working well for him because he hit his first three, missed his next 9 and is 2 for 11 on season. Forget his defense on opposing centers.
Keeyan was the pre season hit on the fluffy video highlights put out by MU. Allocades went out for his athletic ability, his motor, etc. Yet he sits. Is he really that bad even though he sat out a year to improve. Guess the staff sees it as that.
The recruit Amadou is 6ft 9 and weighs 180. Waiting for the Todd Smith will get him bigger reactions.......and the "under the radar" recruiting aspect.
The games against Wisconsin and Baylor with their bigs and the BE gauntlet with Sanago, Soriano, Dixon, Nunge, Kalkbrenner, Croswell, Fremantle and others should be very interesting. Especially if Oso picks up two quick fouls. Everyone knew the rebounding will be an issue because even with Justin Lewis last year, they got pummeled on the boards.
Hope some rebounds go their way as season progresses and maybe get a few points scored.
Well, if they don't play they are certainly not going to get any rebounds much less points.
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I worry about what it says about our program that we’re encouraged by a neutral court loss to a Mississippi State team coming off a season that resulted in the firing of their coach. A team picked to finish 10th in their conference.
I can take a moral victory if we lose a 3 point game at Baylor. Heck even at Purdue. Those are winning, good basketball programs. We lost a neutral court game, with 90% of the crowd behind us, to Mississippi State and their first year (at MS State) head coach.
It's a strange phenomenon on this board where many like to take extremely low outside expectations and use that as what is acceptable for our team's performance. We were picked 9th in the Big East, so we should expect to suck and be ok with sucking.
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The game was lost in the first half when the offense was pretty much just chucking up threes, many early in the shot clock. The second half was better when they started getting into the paint. Kolek’s shooting was encouraging, but he needs to stop with the ‘look at me’ passes - they are doing more harm than good. And rebounding needs to be a five man effort.
There's somebody who saw the same game I did.
Mississippi State is not a particularly good team. They're big and they're in your face. They're very beatable and will be beaten often in conference play.
In the first half, it was as if nobody watched the game film for Mississippi State. We appeared to have no clue what we were up against. So, we defaulted to chucking 3s. How'd that work out? By the second half, we were playing a game that worked, but we weren't consistent when it mattered.
We have not had a reliable, outside shooter since Markus Howard left. There is nobody on this team so far that has even remotely filled Howard's role. Kolek was supposed to but, hey, it hasn't happened. Until we get a reliable shooter, this offense is destined for fits and spurts.
For us to win regularly, we need a 40 minute effort. Against Purdue and Mississippi State, we didn't get it. We had spurts of excellence, but we lacked the 40 minute consistency needed to win.
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Some thoughts:
**Sean Jones might not be fully ready to be starting PG right now, but Kolek has to be better with the ball. The end of game turnovers were just so very frustrating.
**They have to find a decent back up for the post. If Keeyan isn't ready for that, will he ever be? Ben Gold was overwhelmed in the short time he was in there. And if that's Wrightsil, that may be fine but he needs to get healthy...we will see.
**As for outside shooting, I am not sure David Joplin has the quickness to be consistent at this level. And Kam's shot selection is still a problem.
**Unless someone breaks out soon, a la Justin Lewis last year, I think this is going to be a frustrating season. I like the individual players, and defensively they are fine, but I am not sure offensively they just have too many weaknesses.
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Simply an observation on the game last night and not the entire season - Sean Jones ran the offense significantly better last night than Kolek. He attacked with purpose and actually looked to score going to the basket whereas Tyler was mostly a non threat driving. The book is long out on his drives that he looks to get into the paint and kick back out. He bogged down the offense significantly last night while Sean played fearlessly going to the basket.
Kam is so crafty in the lane. Need so much more of that.
The game last night is exactly what I envisioned as worst case scenario when I made my predictions pre season. No proven scorer who can get a bucket when the offense stagnates. This team will struggle until someone can step up. I’m still not sure who that is.
Defense was awesome. I love to see the buy in. Need to force a couple more turns and score in transition if we can’t score in the half court.
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You can be a poor shooting team if you rebound well, and you can be a poor rebounding team if you shoot well. But, you cannot be a poor shooting team and a poor rebounding team. That simply does not work. Yet, that may well be what we have. Yes, Kam Jones and Joplin can get hot occasionally, but, over the long haul, neither has proven to be consistently reliable. And, Kam offsets his good shots with all the stupid 30-footers he takes. (Shaka has to rein him in somehow.) This team plays best when they are attacking the paint and moving the ball (most teams do). They do not have the shooters or the rebounders to play a perimeter-heavy game.
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It's interesting how a game can bring some things into focus.
Imagine you're a Texas fan, you lose to Abilene, and three of the reinforcements coming in are Ellis/Itejere/Joplin. Based on what we've seen so far, I think their anger was probably justified.
Like I said, I like Shaka and love how he wants to play. But there's no more waiting for the prior coach's guys to leave, that happened. Time to get some dudes that'll fit the system.
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As an aside, every time they cut to a grumpy looking old guy in MU gear, I was giggling trying to figure out which scooper it was.
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There is still room with me on the COLE bus. This is a step back year to get the system in place for the future.
Purdue and MSU won the battle of tempo. The early launch offense was brutal which also put MU out of position on rebounds. But that is the philosophy so the talent will have to grow within it.
MU simply struggled versus the zone in the half court. Sean was successful as he was the only one who could get to the seams. With the schedule and the likelihood of more zones, Sean needs more run time.
Great defensive effort by both teams. MU is still looking for its Alphas to replace Morsell and Lewis at the end of games.
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It's interesting how a game can bring some things into focus.
Imagine you're a Texas fan, you lose to Abilene, and three of the reinforcements coming in are Ellis/Itejere/Joplin. Based on what we've seen so far, I think their anger was probably justified.
Like I said, I like Shaka and love how he wants to play. But there's no more waiting for the prior coach's guys to leave, that happened. Time to get some dudes that'll fit the system.
That old line about no matter how attractive a woman is, somewhere there is a guy tired of listening to her can also be applied to recycled head coaches.
I prefer Shaka to Wojo. I can see the path he has chosen and think he will be successful with this group of players. It may take another year.
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Seems many Scoopers are melting down over a road loss at Purdue in a game we controlled for 34 minutes, and a hard fought loss on a neutral court to a physical and old Mississippi State team that Ken Pom has at 25.
We are 334th in D-1 experience per KenPom. It is Year 2 of Shaka. I don't recall us being a slam dunk winner to matchups on the road/neutral floor against Top 20-25 teams during the Buzz years - years I loved.
I mean FFS, we've been extremely competitive in both of these losses - and probably should have won 1 of the 2, but Scoopers in meltdown mode at this stage?
Right now Ken Pom has Creighton and UCONN at 19 and 20. Purdue and MS State at 25 and 26. Nova, Xavier, St. John's, Seton Hall at 32, 33, 34, 35.
Point being, we are going to be very competitive in the Big East, and likely will finish better than 9th, and more likely somewhere in the 4-6th range.
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It's a strange phenomenon on this board where many like to take extremely low outside expectations and use that as what is acceptable for our team's performance. We were picked 9th in the Big East, so we should expect to suck and be ok with sucking.
You have no understanding of COLE. Don't be a MOPE.
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There is still room with me on the COLE bus. This is a step back year to get the system in place for the future.
Purdue and MSU won the battle of tempo. The early launch offense was brutal which also put MU out of position on rebounds. But that is the philosophy so the talent will have to grow within it.
MU simply struggled versus the zone in the half court. Sean was successful as he was the only one who could get to the seams. With the schedule and the likelihood of more zones, Sean needs more run time.
Great defensive effort by both teams. MU is still looking for its Alphas to replace Morsell and Lewis at the end of games.
No rum for you Wednesday.
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We are 334th in D-1 experience per KenPom. It is Year 2 of Shaka. I don't recall us being a slam dunk winner to matchups on the road/neutral floor against Top 20-25 teams during the Buzz years - years I loved.
Not far off, but 304th.
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Seems many Scoopers are melting down over a road loss at Purdue in a game we controlled for 34 minutes, and a hard fought loss on a neutral court to a physical and old Mississippi State team that Ken Pom has at 25.
We are 334th in D-1 experience per KenPom. It is Year 2 of Shaka. I don't recall us being a slam dunk winner to matchups on the road/neutral floor against Top 20-25 teams during the Buzz years - years I loved.
I mean FFS, we've been extremely competitive in both of these losses - and probably should have won 1 of the 2, but Scoopers in meltdown mode at this stage?
Right now Ken Pom has Creighton and UCONN at 19 and 20. Purdue and MS State at 25 and 26. Nova, Xavier, St. John's, Seton Hall at 32, 33, 34, 35.
Point being, we are going to be very competitive in the Big East, and likely will finish better than 9th, and more likely somewhere in the 4-6th range.
I don't care what Kenpom says now, there is no way Purdue and Miss St end as top 25 teams. I wouldn't bring up the Buzz years compared to now. We actually had postseason success and the talent difference between then and now is massive.
We lost two games, the main points are this team appears to have way too many flaws and glaring weaknesses. I just don't see them getting any better because most of them revolve around personnel. I just don't see anybody becoming a consistent 3 point threat. We aren't going to get any more size. We aren't going to get any more backcourt depth. Maybe Omax can still make the Justin Lewis jump but I doubt it. This is a poorly constructed team that just isn't that good.
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Seems many Scoopers are melting down over a road loss at Purdue in a game we controlled for 34 minutes, and a hard fought loss on a neutral court to a physical and old Mississippi State team that Ken Pom has at 25.
We are 334th in D-1 experience per KenPom. It is Year 2 of Shaka. I don't recall us being a slam dunk winner to matchups on the road/neutral floor against Top 20-25 teams during the Buzz years - years I loved.
I mean FFS, we've been extremely competitive in both of these losses - and probably should have won 1 of the 2, but Scoopers in meltdown mode at this stage?
Right now Ken Pom has Creighton and UCONN at 19 and 20. Purdue and MS State at 25 and 26. Nova, Xavier, St. John's, Seton Hall at 32, 33, 34, 35.
Point being, we are going to be very competitive in the Big East, and likely will finish better than 9th, and more likely somewhere in the 4-6th range.
I don't think that's the case. We have very astute observers here. The frustration lies with the fact that we were in a position to win both games, especially last night. When you have long offensive droughts, and cannot hit open shots, it's maddening and somewhat concerning. We have yet to really put together solid offense against three teams and our lack of a consistent shot-maker makes things tough for us in the h-c and down the stretch. The truth is Elon I do not expect Purdue or Miss St. to be worldbeaters and these games matter.
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Seems many Scoopers are melting down over a road loss at Purdue in a game we controlled for 34 minutes, and a hard fought loss on a neutral court to a physical and old Mississippi State team that Ken Pom has at 25.
We are 334th in D-1 experience per KenPom. It is Year 2 of Shaka. I don't recall us being a slam dunk winner to matchups on the road/neutral floor against Top 20-25 teams during the Buzz years - years I loved.
I mean FFS, we've been extremely competitive in both of these losses - and probably should have won 1 of the 2, but Scoopers in meltdown mode at this stage?
Right now Ken Pom has Creighton and UCONN at 19 and 20. Purdue and MS State at 25 and 26. Nova, Xavier, St. John's, Seton Hall at 32, 33, 34, 35.
Point being, we are going to be very competitive in the Big East, and likely will finish better than 9th, and more likely somewhere in the 4-6th range.
I love the optimism (seriously) and I'm trying to get there, too.
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As an aside, every time they cut to a grumpy looking old guy in MU gear, I was giggling trying to figure out which scooper it was.
I feel insulted
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These 2 losses probably throw a dagger into our hopes for March.
I had to wake up early so I went to bed shortly after the 8 minute scoring drought.
Wake up to see they actually somehow took a lead!? And then still lost. Dang!
Goergia Tech is now an absolute must win. After that we need to win at least 2 of Baylor, UW, ND.
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Have you watched him?
Yeah, he is really that bad.
My hope is that he has looked "that bad" because he is injured. The fact he has been in and out suggests an injury is not resolved. A foot or leg injury certainly could make him look far less than what he can be. That is my hope, anyway. We need bigger bodies in there.
We hear so much about MU's strength program over the years, but it constantly looks (Theo aside) like we are wiry strong going up against bulk. Seems to me one or two 6'7" - 6'9" guys are a must. Length is somewhat of an equalizer, but some brawn is essential or we are prone to being bullied inside.
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I feel insulted
You feel insulted? Hell, it probably was me they cut to, given where I was sitting.
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I feel insulted
That was you wearing the flock of turkeys shirt? I don't know how Lenny missed you?
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Some thoughts:
**Sean Jones might not be fully ready to be starting PG right now, but Kolek has to be better with the ball. The end of game turnovers were just so very frustrating.
**They have to find a decent back up for the post. If Keeyan isn't ready for that, will he ever be? Ben Gold was overwhelmed in the short time he was in there. And if that's Wrightsil, that may be fine but he needs to get healthy...we will see.
**As for outside shooting, I am not sure David Joplin has the quickness to be consistent at this level. And Kam's shot selection is still a problem.
**Unless someone breaks out soon, a la Justin Lewis last year, I think this is going to be a frustrating season. I like the individual players, and defensively they are fine, but I am not sure offensively they just have too many weaknesses.
While the season has a long way to go, you have to be concerned about Wrightsil. I thought the big step-up in competition and his new role was going to make his transition difficult to begin with. Now with his knee injury, there's a real chance nothing materializes from him.
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I assumed the really grumpy looking one was Lenny.
When they showed the kids in MU swag going crazy, I pictured JB lurking just out of camera range.
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Bulldogs are fat and lazy
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You all really only value one side of the ball huh?
That was a great defensive game. Defense travels, offense will come.
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We can hope.
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I assumed the really grumpy looking one was Lenny.
When they showed the kids in MU swag going crazy, I pictured JB lurking just out of camera range.
Naah, JB was on the other side of the arena. With Ms. JB!
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I hope they were enjoying themselves.
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You all really only value one side of the ball huh?
That was a great defensive game. Defense travels, offense will come.
I think most appreciate the aggressive defense, but would prefer better offense, and value wins.
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You all really only value one side of the ball huh?
That was a great defensive game. Defense travels, offense will come.
I remember that phrase being used early last season. Then the defense stopped traveling, even about the mile and a half east it needed to travel for home games.
Mississippi State was picked to finish 10th in the SEC. They're, at my very most generous way of describing them, an okay college basketball team. We lost a home away from home game to them and scored 17 points in the first half.
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Last night's game is indicative of where the program is currently. Look, we haven't come close to winning an NCAA tournament game in 10 years - the college landscape has changed a lot since then.
This is not the type of program that competes for conference championships. We don't sweep the DePauls of the world, or any other team for that matter. We're not becoming Villanova, Creighton or Xavier anytime soon.
But what we do have now are 9-10 guys who play their butts off every night. Shaka gets it - no more one-and-dones or high four star players with their eye on turning pro. Instead, we've got a squad that is fun to watch, playing hard, & committed to the team aspect of the game. You're always going to at least be in it against middle-tier SEC or B1G teams playing this way.
We're like a spunky Horizon League team, trying to hit above our weight. You string together a few seasons like this with everyone on the same page, and perhaps a magical Loyola Chicago-type run materializes. Isn't that better than bashing your head against a wall trying to become Villanova? We ain't going to out-talent the better teams in our conference or college basketball. This is the new model.
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Am I the only on that is still somewhat encouraged with what we've seen so far? I think by the end of the year we're going to be rolling and still have plenty of time to make the tourney. Two close loses against teams that will be in the tourney. We've got a young team that is making some poor decisions (Kam shooting from "outer space" for example) that I think will be corrected as the season goes on. Defense looks solid, effort is tremendous. We would have won both Purdue and MSU if we changed minor things like the shot selection.
There's a lot to work on and we will never have a good answer this year for a few items like Oso's backup... but we have what we need to at least be a tourney team again and I'm very excited about where the team is going in the next year or two.
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I hope they were enjoying themselves.
This has lots of potential
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I remember that phrase being used early last season. Then the defense stopped traveling, even about the mile and a half east it needed to travel for home games.
People shouldn't have said that last season. Our defense wasn't very good compared to this season.
Mississippi State was picked to finish 10th in the SEC. They're, at my very most generous way of describing them, an okay college basketball team. We lost a home away from home game to them and scored 17 points in the first half.
If Mississippi State finishes 10th in the SEC I'll eat my hat. If you really think that they're just an okay team then you either have a very liberal definition of okay or you really do only value one side of the ball. That's a top 20 defense easy.
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People shouldn't have said that last season. Our defense wasn't very good compared to this season.
If Mississippi State finishes 10th in the SEC I'll eat my hat. If you really think that they're just an okay team then you either have a very liberal definition of okay or you really do only value one side of the ball. That's a top 20 defense easy.
People like scoring
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I remember that phrase being used early last season. Then the defense stopped traveling, even about the mile and a half east it needed to travel for home games.
Mississippi State was picked to finish 10th in the SEC. They're, at my very most generous way of describing them, an okay college basketball team. We lost a home away from home game to them and scored 17 points in the first half.
We have to double any competent big, and have been fortunate that our opponents are missing a lot of open shots when they pass out of it. MSU looked pathetic on offense and we still lost. Better offensive teams will make us pay on all those open looks.
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Some thoughts:
**Sean Jones might not be fully ready to be starting PG right now, but Kolek has to be better with the ball. The end of game turnovers were just so very frustrating.
Sean Jones had some really nice drives and finishes, but in 13 minutes, he had 0 assists (to his credit, 0 TO's as well). If you want a Markus Howard type running your offense, or BEING your offense, stick SJ in there right now.
But if you want someone to run the offense, distribute the ball and get everyone involved, TK is the guy.
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Am I the only on that is still somewhat encouraged with what we've seen so far? I think by the end of the year we're going to be rolling and still have plenty of time to make the tourney. Two close loses against teams that will be in the tourney. We've got a young team that is making some poor decisions (Kam shooting from "outer space" for example) that I think will be corrected as the season goes on. Defense looks solid, effort is tremendous. We would have won both Purdue and MSU if we changed minor things like the shot selection.
There's a lot to work on and we will never have a good answer this year for a few items like Oso's backup... but we have what we need to at least be a tourney team again and I'm very excited about where the team is going in the next year or two.
Probably. I love this team and enjoy rooting for them, they just are missing something...and that something seems big.
I picked them to go 16-15 this year and that was with a 9-11 Big East Record. I think 9-11 in the Big East is a stretch to be honest. There is a chance they could finish under .500 and that would be eye opening.
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People shouldn't have said that last season. Our defense wasn't very good compared to this season.
If Mississippi State finishes 10th in the SEC I'll eat my hat. If you really think that they're just an okay team then you either have a very liberal definition of okay or you really do only value one side of the ball. That's a top 20 defense easy.
There are teams that are top 20 defensively and miss the NCAA Tournament every season (which would be roughly 10th in the SEC, since they'll get 8 or 9 bids). And we'll see where they end up defensively. They've played Marquette and 4 cupcakes. I don't see them holding many SEC teams to 17 points in a half.
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Probably. I love this team and enjoy rooting for them, they just are missing something...and that something seems big.
I picked them to go 16-15 this year and that was with a 9-11 Big East Record. I think 9-11 in the Big East is a stretch to be honest. There is a chance they could finish under .500 and that would be eye opening.
9-11 would be under .500.
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9-11 would be under .500.
I'm talking overall record.
Baylor is a loss. Wisconsin is probably a loss.
Notre Dame and Georgia Tech are coinflips. If they lose either of those 2, they are 6-5 nonconference at best.
(6-5)(9-11) is a 15-16 sub .500 record.
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I'm talking overall record.
Baylor is a loss. Wisconsin is probably a loss.
Notre Dame and Georgia Tech are coinflips. If they lose either of those 2, they are 6-5 nonconference at best.
(6-5)(9-11) is a 15-16 sub .500 record.
I picked 18-14. Still don't feel terrible about it. Some of these big east teams are just worse than us.
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Winning 20 games/years and/or going .500 is only indicative of the schedule you're playing. Shaka is not afraid to challenge the team, schedule some big dogs, and get bit once in a while. I'll take the risk of a loss to a power conference team over the a lock-win buy game Directional Michigan U. Now they've seen physical defense and rebounding. The UW game won't be a total shock to the system. Learn, grow, and improve.
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Winning 20 games/years and/or going .500 is only indicative of the schedule you're playing. Shaka is not afraid to challenge the team, schedule some big dogs, and get bit once in a while. I'll take the risk of a loss to a power conference team over the a lock-win buy game Directional Michigan U. Now they've seen physical defense and rebounding. The UW game won't be a total shock to the system. Learn, grow, and improve.
They had a chance to grow from Tuesday where they failed to hold a lead late on the road.
Now they failed to hold a lead late with a pro-Marquette crowd on a neutral court.
Nothing makes me confident they will hold a lead at home against a team that traditionally doesn't make mistakes.
A win last night would have meant 5-1 because Utah is terrible. Now with the loss they will have to scratch and claw just to hopefully avoid 3-3. They better find a better way to grow!
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It's a little early to worry about post season hopes when you still have a 20 game BE slate in front of you.
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It's a little early to worry about post season hopes when you still have a 20 game BE slate in front of you.
A down Big East with a down Marquette (at least compared to last year). This has become the norm for Marquette Hoops though. We ain't who we once was.
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A down Big East with a down Marquette (at least compared to last year). This has become the norm for Marquette Hoops though. We ain't who we once was.
I’m not ready to say this team is worse than last year. It seems some of the stats would indicate the opposite.
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A down Big East with a down Marquette (at least compared to last year). This has become the norm for Marquette Hoops though. We ain't who we once was.
I'm confused. Is this a down Marquette, or is this the current norm?
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I’m not ready to say this team is worse than last year. It seems some of the stats would indicate the opposite.
Stats be damned. Last years team started 5-0 with very similar opponents.
Wins against Illinois and West Virginia compared to losses against Purdue and Mississippi State. Darryl is the biggest difference as many of us thought he would be.
Justin can be replaced, but you can't replace what Darryl brought with Freshman and offensively limited Sophomores. Darryl was the best defender on the court at all times and was a 3 level scorer.
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They had a chance to grow from Tuesday where they failed to hold a lead late on the road.
Now they failed to hold a lead late with a pro-Marquette crowd on a neutral court.
Nothing makes me confident they will hold a lead at home against a team that traditionally doesn't make mistakes.
A win last night would have meant 5-1 because Utah is terrible. Now with the loss they will have to scratch and claw just to hopefully avoid 3-3. They better find a better way to grow!
Past performance does not guarantee future results, and progress is not linear. Blowing leads in November guarantees nothing with regard to future outcomes, especially with a team that can't really put more than 3 upperclassmen on the floor at the same time.
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I'm confused. Is this a down Marquette, or is this the current norm?
You want me to just copy/paste it?
A down Big East with a down Marquette (at least compared to last year).
It is a down Big East and a down Marquette compared to last year. Reality is this is who Marquette has been for 10 years. So in other words, this season has started as expected which is a typical Marquette start, but it is down from last year.
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Stats be damned. Last years team started 5-0 with very similar opponents.
Wins against Illinois and West Virginia compared to losses against Purdue and Mississippi State. Darryl is the biggest difference as many of us thought he would be.
Justin can be replaced, but you can't replace what Darryl brought with Freshman and offensively limited Sophomores. Darryl was the best defender on the court at all times and was a 3 level scorer.
Justin can be replaced but Darryl can’t? That’s ridiculous.
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Past performance does not guarantee future results, and progress is not linear. Blowing leads in November guarantees nothing with regard to future outcomes, especially with a team that can't really put more than 3 upperclassmen on the floor at the same time.
The "we're young" excuse doesn't work with me. Teams find ways to succeed with young teams every year.
Regardless of age, if you get opportunities, you should be able to find ways to grow from them and find success that you previously did not.
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As an aside, every time they cut to a grumpy looking old guy in MU gear, I was giggling trying to figure out which scooper it was.
haha, same here. Sultan? TSmith34? MU82? Oh, that’s gotta be 82!
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Stats be damned. Last years team started 5-0 with very similar opponents.
Wins against Illinois and West Virginia compared to losses against Purdue and Mississippi State. Darryl is the biggest difference as many of us thought he would be.
Justin can be replaced, but you can't replace what Darryl brought with Freshman and offensively limited Sophomores. Darryl was the best defender on the court at all times and was a 3 level scorer.
Who replaces Justin ?
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Who replaces Justin ?
The combination of OMax and Joplin has done it's part replacing his points and rebounding. They've done well enough.
Morsell attacking the basket and spearheading a defense while also being able to shoot from outside and score 20 on any given night is what they miss from the guard position.
Kam can score 20 but he doesn't defend and has become a 3 point chucker to put it nicely.
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Last night's game is indicative of where the program is currently. Look, we haven't come close to winning an NCAA tournament game in 10 years - the college landscape has changed a lot since then.
This is not the type of program that competes for conference championships. We don't sweep the DePauls of the world, or any other team for that matter. We're not becoming Villanova, Creighton or Xavier anytime soon.
But what we do have now are 9-10 guys who play their butts off every night. Shaka gets it - no more one-and-dones or high four star players with their eye on turning pro. Instead, we've got a squad that is fun to watch, playing hard, & committed to the team aspect of the game. You're always going to at least be in it against middle-tier SEC or B1G teams playing this way.
We're like a spunky Horizon League team, trying to hit above our weight. You string together a few seasons like this with everyone on the same page, and perhaps a magical Loyola Chicago-type run materializes. Isn't that better than bashing your head against a wall trying to become Villanova? We ain't going to out-talent the better teams in our conference or college basketball. This is the new model.
now I’m depressed. We’re like a spunky Horizon League team? I’ll step out on the ledge now.
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The combination of OMax and Joplin has done it's part replacing his points and rebounding. They've done well enough.
Morsell attacking the basket and spearheading a defense while also being able to shoot from outside and score 20 on any given night is what they miss from the guard position.
Kam can score 20 but he doesn't defend and has become a 3 point chucker to put it nicely.
Cmon - those two have not remotely come close to replacing Justin.
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haha, same here. Sultan? TSmith34? MU82? Oh, that’s gotta be 82!
None of those guys were there.
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Cmon - those two have not remotely come close to replacing Justin.
Huh?
They are the 2 leading scorers on the team.
25.6 Points Per Game
10.4 Rebounds Per Game
1.2 Steals Per Game
50% from the field
39% from 3
18 made 3's in 5 games
That's definitely picking up the load and then some.
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haha, same here. Sultan? TSmith34? MU82? Oh, that’s gotta be 82!
1. I'm Mr. Happy.
2. I didn't make the trip. I had to sit in my basement listening to the police scanner because there was supposedly a live shooter at a Charlotte shopping mall, and I was worried that would affect Marquette's enrollment.
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Huh?
They are the 2 leading scorers on the team.
25.6 Points Per Game
10.4 Rebounds Per Game
1.2 Steals Per Game
50% from the field
39% from 3
18 made 3's in 5 games
That's definitely picking up the load and then some.
You have a screw loose if you think those two are seamless replacements for Justin.
I don’t care about the buy game performances from those two. Between the Purdue and msst game, omax has been on a milk carton and jop shot lights out in one of the four halves.
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I’m not ready to say this team is worse than last year. It seems some of the stats would indicate the opposite.
Which stats are those?
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You have a screw loose if you think those two are seamless replacements for Justin.
I don’t care about the buy game performances from those two. Between the Purdue and msst game, omax has been on a milk carton and jop shot lights out in one of the four halves.
You can't replace Justin. Period. Virtually no coaches can and the few that could do it out of shear luck and ability to recruit top 5 guys to Duke.
All of that out of the way, the most likely player to replace Justin was and is still Oso. Especially in terms of overall impact. Always has been.
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You have a screw loose if you think those two are seamless replacements for Justin.
I don’t care about the buy game performances from those two. Between the Purdue and msst game, omax has been on a milk carton and jop shot lights out in one of the four halves.
This. Obviously. Plus, even if 2 guys replaced 1 (and they didn't), it affects depth.
Not sure why some want to diminish the contributions of the All-Big East forward who was, by far, the best player on our team in 2021-22. It's so weird, and wrong. We'd be significantly better with JL all season, and we'd be 5-0 right now.
I understand that he's gone and isn't coming back. And I wouldn't bring him up again if people like GE03 would stop trying to justify their takes by diminishing Lewis.
Morsell did have a great first 4 games last season, though, and we sure could have used that Morsell against Purdue and Miss State. The Morsell who averaged 12 ppg the rest of the way, and who got benched by Shaka several times ... we miss him, too, but less.
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The "we're young" excuse doesn't work with me. Teams find ways to succeed with young teams every year.
What part of 'past performance does not guarantee future results' don't you understand? We're 5 games into the season. There's plenty of time for these guys to improve and find ways to succeed, as you put it.
And being young isn't an excuse, it's a fact. And unless you expect Shaka to build his team through the transfer portal, something which he's repeatedly shown no interest in doing, it's something the team is going to need to deal with at some point until the recruiting classes balance out. Expecting incoming freshman and sophomores who played limited roles last year to go out and perform individually and together like upperclassmen is unreasonable.
BTW, you posted this last December:
I know most don't like to look ahead because first and foremost is getting better this year, but someone's gotta do it!
Darryl and Kur will be gone. Justin could very well go pro. Greg has already been in College 5 years, will he want to stay a 6th?
That leaves us with:
1. Stevie (Diminished role as season progresses)
2. Emarion (Limited Role)
3. Joplin (Limited Role)
4. OMax (Diminished role as season progresses)
5. Kolek (Major role)
6. Kam (Major role)
7. Oso (Major role)
8. Keeyan (Redshirt)
Incoming are 2 guards Sean Jones and Chase Ross.
Stevie, Emarion, Kolek, and Jones all are best used as a PG and it's hard to see any of them sharing too much time on the court together. There are some solid returning pieces, but arguably more question marks than this year and of those 10 names only Oso is a real post.
Seems like ever since...you know...let's just say 2014, we've been stuck in an endless cycle of rebuilding.
On the bright side, Justin and Greg could decide to stay and I trust Shaka to often utilize the transfer portal, but for a fanbase desperate to get back to relevance in March this is a reminder to be patient.
Interested to hear some other input. Concerns? Optimism? Encouragement? General thoughts?
Go Marquette!
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This. Obviously. Plus, even if 2 guys replaced 1 (and they didn't), it affects depth.
Not sure why some want to diminish the contributions of the All-Big East forward who was, by far, the best player on our team in 2021-22. It's so weird, and wrong. We'd be significantly better with JL all season, and we'd be 5-0 right now.
I understand that he's gone and isn't coming back. And I wouldn't bring him up again if people like GE03 would stop trying to justify their takes by diminishing Lewis.
Morsell did have a great first 4 games last season, though, and we sure could have used that Morsell against Purdue and Miss State. The Morsell who averaged 12 ppg the rest of the way, and who got benched by Shaka several times ... we miss him, too, but less.
Nobody is diminishing Justin's value, just stating how important Darryl was.
Guards game, always will be.
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Sean Jones had some really nice drives and finishes, but in 13 minutes, he had 0 assists (to his credit, 0 TO's as well). If you want a Markus Howard type running your offense, or BEING your offense, stick SJ in there right now.
But if you want someone to run the offense, distribute the ball and get everyone involved, TK is the guy.
Sean was a +6 in 13 minutes. Got MU the lead. Tyler hits his shots when Sean was in the game penetrating the paint and creating space.
Stevie (-9) and Tyler (-7) weren't going to get assists against zone. Sean went out and lead dissipated.
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You want me to just copy/paste it?
A down Big East with a down Marquette (at least compared to last year).
It is a down Big East and a down Marquette compared to last year. Reality is this is who Marquette has been for 10 years. So in other words, this season has started as expected which is a typical Marquette start, but it is down from last year.
Then why don't you pack the season in early and just head to bed like you did last night? It will save you a lot of angst and will save us from reading your chicken-littling- all at once! A true win-win.
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I'm talking overall record.
Baylor is a loss. Wisconsin is probably a loss.
Notre Dame and Georgia Tech are coinflips. If they lose either of those 2, they are 6-5 nonconference at best.
(6-5)(9-11) is a 15-16 sub .500 record.
We will beat Georgia Tech, Notre Dame and Wisconsin. Quite frankly I think we beat Wisconsin by 10.
Some serious overreaction going on,
On Scoop. People can’t conflate the 7 years of meh under Wojo with Shaka. FFS we finished 97th in Year 2 of Wojo. I think I this years team will finish around 40 in KenPom
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We will beat Georgia Tech, Notre Dame and Wisconsin. Quite frankly I think we beat Wisconsin by 10.
Some serious overreaction going on,
On Scoop. People can’t conflate the 7 years of meh under Wojo with Shaka. FFS we finished 97th in Year 2 of Wojo. I think I this years team will finish around 40 in KenPom
Georgia Tech's speed and zone will cause problems for our limited offensive skill. Hope some of Kam's 30 footers fall or it'll be another close game that could go either way.
Notre Dame should be winnable, but it is a road game so maybe not. Wisconsin is just Wisconsin so probably not.
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People really think this brick-laying MU team is fun to watch?
I suppose if you enjoy seeing airballed wide-open corner 3's, then Shaka has put together the perfect team for you.
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1. I'm Mr. Happy.
2. I didn't make the trip. I had to sit in my basement listening to the police scanner because there was supposedly a live shooter at a Charlotte shopping mall, and I was worried that would affect Marquette's enrollment.
i’m in FtMyers this week visiting the folks…but watching the games on tv. Scoopers should have some sort of dress item for easy ID.
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So fellow scoopers can identify and regular people can avoid.
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So fellow scoopers can identify and regular people can avoid.
100%
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People really think this brick-laying MU team is fun to watch?
I suppose if you enjoy seeing airballed wide-open corner 3's, then Shaka has put together the perfect team for you.
I enjoy seeing a team put 100% effort into the defensive end, so yes, I have enjoyed the past year and 5 games more than the previous 7 years.
No question we are very far away from competing for anything meaningful but the 2013 Elite 8 team had similar offensive struggles and they found a way.
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If we lose to Georgia Tech, then I understand starting to panic. That's a team that we should beat by a solid margin. Even then I think it's a little early to panic but to each their own.
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Last night's game is indicative of where the program is currently. Look, we haven't come close to winning an NCAA tournament game in 10 years - the college landscape has changed a lot since then.
This is not the type of program that competes for conference championships. We don't sweep the DePauls of the world, or any other team for that matter. We're not becoming Villanova, Creighton or Xavier anytime soon.
But what we do have now are 9-10 guys who play their butts off every night. Shaka gets it - no more one-and-dones or high four star players with their eye on turning pro. Instead, we've got a squad that is fun to watch, playing hard, & committed to the team aspect of the game. You're always going to at least be in it against middle-tier SEC or B1G teams playing this way.
We're like a spunky Horizon League team, trying to hit above our weight. You string together a few seasons like this with everyone on the same page, and perhaps a magical Loyola Chicago-type run materializes. Isn't that better than bashing your head against a wall trying to become Villanova? We ain't going to out-talent the better teams in our conference or college basketball. This is the new model.
Oh Lord, this better not be the new model. I can accept it while we build culture for a couple years but I’m hoping the recruits year over year are better than the last. We cannot accept being a “spunky” Horizon league team with a run every ten years. And I do t think that is what we are now.
Get old, stay old and keep bringing in better and better talent. If this team isn’t winning NCAA games by year three or worst case scenario year four, time to start looking for a new coach.
I personally have not given up on this year’s team. I think they will start hitting threes as the game slows down. I say that because our experienced players are now potential go to guys and our freshman and sophomores are getting extensive playing time for the first time. All new roles. Purdue and MissSt are great learning experiences and I believe the game will slow down and the decision making will improve.
Also, Kolek hitting multiple threes last night was very encouraging. He is the prime candidate for being the go to player during crunch time. If he keeps the defense honest with his shot then his passing will be even more dangerous.
We’ll beat Wisconsin and ND and be more optimistic going into conference play. Hang in there gang! Go MU!
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They had a chance to grow from Tuesday where they failed to hold a lead late on the road.
Now they failed to hold a lead late with a pro-Marquette crowd on a neutral court.
Nothing makes me confident they will hold a lead at home against a team that traditionally doesn't make mistakes.
A win last night would have meant 5-1 because Utah is terrible. Now with the loss they will have to scratch and claw just to hopefully avoid 3-3. They better find a better way to grow!
I don't get this logic. Utah is terrible, so we would have beaten them, but now we have to scratch and claw against the team they beat?
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I don't get this logic. Utah is terrible, so we would have beaten them, but now we have to scratch and claw against the team they beat?
Different styles. Utah doesn't have the roster to handle real pressure for 40 minutes that Marquette applies. They are in the 300 range in tempo and Marquette just has more talent.
The zone and athletes that Georgia Tech display are a tougher matchup for Marquette. Still should win on paper.
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Georgia Tech's speed and zone will cause problems for our limited offensive skill. Hope some of Kam's 30 footers fall or it'll be another close game that could go either way.
Notre Dame should be winnable, but it is a road game so maybe not. Wisconsin is just Wisconsin so probably not.
All are games are winnable. MU needs to learn to attack the zone (that means the ability to dribble penetrate the seams). Sean, OMax and Tyler are the only ones really able to do that.
The 4 or 5 out offense is designed to create space with passing and tempo. MSU pressured their zone out to restrict that. MU adjusted at half and was using more dribble penetration (paint touches, a necessity versus zone). MU won the 2nd half.
There will be ups and downs. I encourage you to enjoy them.
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All are games are winnable. MU needs to learn to attack the zone (that means the ability to dribble penetrate the seams). Sean, OMax and Tyler are the only ones really able to do that.
The 4 or 5 out offense is designed to create space with passing and tempo. MSU pressured their zone out to restrict that. MU adjusted at half and was using more dribble penetration (paint touches, a necessity versus zone). MU won the 2nd half.
There will be ups and downs. I encourage you to enjoy them.
The last 10 years have been a waste of time with this program. I believe Shaka is the right guy to win a tournament game, but still frustrating to have another rebuild after a promising start to his tenure.
I like all these players too, just have a lot of work to get anywhere meaningful on the basketball court.
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We're like a spunky Horizon League team, trying to hit above our weight.
OMG! We're Dayton!
If so, Kill me now. Put me out of my misery!
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The last 10 years have been a waste of time with this program. I believe Shaka is the right guy to win a tournament game, but still frustrating to have another rebuild after a promising start to his tenure.
I like all these players too, just have a lot of work to get anywhere meaningful on the basketball court.
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Until Shaka recruits a player with meat on his bone there going nowhere fast. Oso your center for 2 more years will not take you to the promise land. Amadeu might play center next year cause he can shot the 3
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OMG! We're Dayton!
If so, Kill me now. Put me out of my misery!
Join me in Jonestown
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In an era that demands instant gratification, a lot of people are going to be disappointed in Shaka’s approach, methinks. You don’t have to be clairvoyant to see his approach at how he’s going to do things at Marquette.
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In an era that demands instant gratification, a lot of people are going to be disappointed in Shaka’s approach, methinks. You don’t have to be clairvoyant to see his approach at how he’s going to do things at Marquette.
More so, unlike other former coaches, he explains exactly what he is doing and what to expect. But Scoopers ignore it...
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More so, unlike other former coaches, he explains exactly what he is doing and what to expect. But Scoopers ignore it...
Right? I don’t know if it’ll be successful. I happen to think it’s a more practical approach, especially if the NBA drops age restrictions. I get the frustrations after last night because there was a lot of ugly in that game and there’s going to be a lot more ugly this year. It sucks watching games like that.
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My initial excitement over Shaka’s hiring was 99% based off of style of play and top level recruiting and it had my jacked up. He has taken a different approach in recruiting and I am still excited about the future of the program. I agree with Dr. B, Shaka has been very upfront with how he is going to recruit and build a program and I’m all in.
I would say that my continued optimism stems from the fact that we have a proven Coach and he has plenty on the line if his approach proves unsuccessful. He is all in and so am I.
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The last 10 years have been a waste of time with this program. I believe Shaka is the right guy to win a tournament game, but still frustrating to have another rebuild after a promising start to his tenure.
I like all these players too, just have a lot of work to get anywhere meaningful on the basketball court.
The one issue with being a young team in today's college basketball landscape -- there's no guarantee you'll actually get old.
Guys will transfer, some inevitably don't progress, while others go off to Europe/D-League/Draft at the first hint of pro potential - real or imagined.
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Right? I don’t know if it’ll be successful. I happen to think it’s a more practical approach, especially if the NBA drops age restrictions. I get the frustrations after last night because there was a lot of ugly in that game and there’s going to be a lot more ugly this year. It sucks watching games like that.
It actually was a great defensive game. I was more annoyed with the refs: Three travels were called jump balls. Wtf? C Team
But then again, I am all COLE. Excited to see this team grow over the next few years.
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The one issue with being a young team in today's college basketball landscape -- there's no guarantee you'll actually get old.
Guys will transfer, some inevitably don't progress, while others go off to Europe/D-League/Draft at the first hint of pro potential - real or imagined.
I'd suggest having a little faith in Shaka's ability to build relationships and engender a player's trust. He obviously didn't go out and bring in a transfer this year that would stunt the growth/limit the playing time of any of the guys on the existing roster from last year. Our freshman are going to get valuable playing time this season. Incremental improvement will happen.
If by Year 4 of Shaka's tenure we aren't solidly positioned as a Top 4 Big East team and 2nd weekend prospective team, then I'll start to wonder if I shouldn't "trust the process." However, I feel pretty good that we'll be an NCAA team this year, and take a nice step up next year.
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I'd suggest having a little faith in Shaka's ability to build relationships and engender a player's trust. He obviously didn't go out and bring in a transfer this year that would stunt the growth/limit the playing time of any of the guys on the existing roster from last year. Our freshman are going to get valuable playing time this season. Incremental improvement will happen.
If by Year 4 of Shaka's tenure we aren't solidly positioned as a Top 4 Big East team and 2nd weekend prospective team, then I'll start to wonder if I shouldn't "trust the process." However, I feel pretty good that we'll be an NCAA team this year, and take a nice step up next year.
Some people thought they were a high seed THIS season. If they aren't contending for a Big East title next year with what they have returning then there is a problem.
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I was happy with the way the team was coached against The Bulldogs. I liked the teams overall energy.
The guys missed a bunch of wide open shots. When they learn to relax and drain those threes, life will be very good.
I continue to be bullish on the outlook for this years squad.
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Some people thought they were a high seed THIS season. If they aren't contending for a Big East title next year with what they have returning then there is a problem.
High seed? Which “some people” thought that?
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More so, unlike other former coaches, he explains exactly what he is doing and what to expect.
What if we're disappointed in what he is doing? Can we be disappointed that other young coaches seem to have more "winning" plans?
Still - I think there's potential this year (though I'm COLE like you). And my bar is just that he needs to have a team capable of winning a NCAA game next year. But I hope there's better days ahead.
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High seed? Which “some people” thought that?
There were a fair amount of posters who I remember thinking “that’s nuts” when they were projecting this team as a 4-6 seed.
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What if we're disappointed in what he is doing? Can we be disappointed that other young coaches seem to have more "winning" plans?
Still - I think there's potential this year (though I'm COLE like you). And my bar is just that he needs to have a team capable of winning a NCAA game next year. But I hope there's better days ahead.
I agree. I can like a coach, but I also can like to micro analyze plays or runs on Scoop. These things are not incongruous. My wife likes me (I think), but I am 0 for the week.
Puerto Rican ron, though? I am picky!
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Puerto Rican ron, though? I am picky!
I'm partial to Costa Rican (Centenario), but still, an underappreciated category because of Bacardi.
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I'm partial to Costa Rican (Centenario), but still, an underappreciated category because of Bacardi.
DonQ was smuggled in. Trunk music, pregame
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DonQ was smuggled in. Trunk music, pregame
Hah. Understood, but I don't think this "smuggling" was illegal.
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Hah. Understood, but I don't think this "smuggling" was illegal.
It's Newsie. I don't ask questions I don't know the answer to. Fat Shady.
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I'm partial to Costa Rican (Centenario), but still, an underappreciated category because of Bacardi.
Bacardi is crappiest rum ever, Budweiser of rum. Best rum is DonQ Xo m, 7 and single barrel.
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Bacardi is crappiest rum ever, Budweiser of rum. Best rum is DonQ Xo m, 7 and single barrel.
There is nothing more flavorful or smoother than a Puerto Rican rum out of a car's trunk in lot of the Ft. Myers Tip Off. I feel clean
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There is nothing more flavorful or smoother than a Puerto Rican rum out of a car's trunk in lot of the Ft. Myers Tip Off. I feel clean
You will tomorrow....
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Bacardi is crappiest rum ever, Budweiser of rum.
I'm pretty sure that's what I said. But I do smell a Scoop rum summit.
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I'm pretty sure that's what I said. But I do smell a Scoop rum summit.
It is on baby