MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: MU82 on November 20, 2022, 06:20:58 PM
-
Patrons of the LGBTQ Colorado Springs club where a hate-filled gunman opened fire last night ended the attack by taking aggressive action at the risk of their own lives.
From the NYT:
COLORADO SPRINGS — At least five people were killed when a man stormed into an L.G.B.T.Q. nightclub in Colorado Springs just before midnight on Saturday and opened fire with a long rifle, the authorities said. Officials praised patrons inside the club for quickly subduing the gunman, though at least 25 people were injured in the mayhem.
Here are the details:
Early reports indicate that the suspect entered the establishment, Club Q, wearing body armor, and began firing with an AR-15 style rifle, according to two law enforcement officials briefed on the shooting. One of the club’s owners, who reviewed surveillance video of the scene, said the gunman entered the nightclub with “tremendous firepower.”
Mayor John Suthers of Colorado Springs said that someone had acted quickly to grab a handgun from the suspect, then hit him with it, subduing him. When police burst in, the man was still on top of gunman, pinning him down, Mr. Suthers told The New York Times.
The city’s police chief, Adrian Vasquez, said that investigators were still working to determine who owned the weapons used in the shooting. He identified the suspect as Anderson Lee Aldrich, 22, and said the authorities were investigating a motive. A person of the same name and age was arrested by sheriff’s deputies last year after a bomb threat outside Colorado Springs.
The owners of Club Q, Matthew Haynes and Nic Grzecka, said one of the bar’s patrons had rushed the gunman and subdued him, then another had helped to hold the man down. “I don’t even know the names of these people,” Grzecka said. “But what they did is incredible.”
-
I respect the hell out of anyone who charges the gun.
-
Incredibly brave of the unarmed people to take on a heavily armed gunman. Heroes who saved countless lives.
Strange that a certain news outlet is barely covering this hate crime and the heroics of the people involved.
-
Incredibly brave of the unarmed people to take on a heavily armed gunman. Heroes who saved countless lives.
Strange that a certain news outlet is barely covering this hate crime and the heroics of the people involved.
hmmm, and which "news outlet" might this be? surely it couldn't be the one you guys don't watch because it's all b.s., but then how would you know? only us cro magnon meat eaters watch "that one". oh, that's only if it's "the one" you are most likely referring to. full disclosure (loud gasp) i watch it (a little bit) (more loud gasps) and i have seen quite a bit of that indescribably horrific crime perpetrated by an evil dude with a gun. they are also reporting about that indescribably horrific crime perpetrated by the evil person(s) with a knife(knives). well that's what i heard anyway from someone who regularly watches that dastardly "news outlet" which shouldn't even be allowed on tv without some kind of warning i guess
-
hmmm, and which "news outlet" might this be? surely it couldn't be the one you guys don't watch because it's all b.s., but then how would you know? only us cro magnon meat eaters watch "that one". oh, that's only if it's "the one" you are most likely referring to. full disclosure (loud gasp) i watch it (a little bit) (more loud gasps) and i have seen quite a bit of that indescribably horrific crime perpetrated by an evil dude with a gun. they are also reporting about that indescribably horrific crime perpetrated by the evil person(s) with a knife(knives). well that's what i heard anyway from someone who regularly watches that dastardly "news outlet" which shouldn't even be allowed on tv without some kind of warning i guess
Fantastic! This is a solid 9.5 out of 10
Just about has it all. Great way to start a week!
-
hmmm, and which "news outlet" might this be? surely it couldn't be the one you guys don't watch because it's all b.s., but then how would you know? only us cro magnon meat eaters watch "that one". oh, that's only if it's "the one" you are most likely referring to. full disclosure (loud gasp) i watch it (a little bit) (more loud gasps) and i have seen quite a bit of that indescribably horrific crime perpetrated by an evil dude with a gun. they are also reporting about that indescribably horrific crime perpetrated by the evil person(s) with a knife(knives). well that's what i heard anyway from someone who regularly watches that dastardly "news outlet" which shouldn't even be allowed on tv without some kind of warning i guess
Gasp!
-
Thank you for your contribution, snowflake.
A hate crime that could have been so much worse. But the carnage was stopped by courage.
-
A decorated war vet and a drag queen go into a bar....
and tragically become heroes.
Courage in the face of carnage.
-
Thank you for your contribution, snowflake.
A hate crime that could have been so much worse. But the carnage was stopped by courage.
Are they not all hate crimes.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-springs-shooting-army-veteran-speaks-disarms-club-q-shooter-aldrich
-
No. Today's mass shooting in Oklahoma has the appearance of being about greed.
-
Unarmed vet and a drag queen way braver than those donut munching fat boys in Uvalde.
-
Unarmed vet and a drag queen way braver than those donut munching fat boys in Uvalde.
Only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a gay guy without a gun.
-
Only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a gay guy without a gun.
Great line.
-
Unarmed vet and a drag queen way braver than those donut munching fat boys in Uvalde.
Not sure I get the reference.
-
Not sure I get the reference.
I believe it's a reference to the 376 cops who waited outside Robb Elementary School in Uvalde while kids were being killed inside.
-
No. Today's mass shooting in Oklahoma has the appearance of being about greed.
...and greed cannot lead to hate resulting in 4 dead.
-
Are they not all hate crimes.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-springs-shooting-army-veteran-speaks-disarms-club-q-shooter-aldrich
Are you asking if all shootings are hate crimes? If so, no they are not all hate crimes. A hate crime is when someone is targeted for being a member of a federally protected class. The Colorado Springs victims seem to have been targeted because of their sexual orientation. The victims in Uvalde were targeted because of the shooter's connection to that school, ergo, not a hate crime.
-
I believe it's a reference to the 376 cops who waited outside Robb Elementary School in Uvalde while kids were being killed inside.
Are those the cops that didn't enter the room despite a now deceased 11-year old girl calling 911 begging for help?
-
https://www.insider.com/colorado-county-sheriffs-red-flag-laws-club-q-mass-shooting-2022-11
More cops refusing to do their jobs to protect people.
-
https://www.insider.com/colorado-county-sheriffs-red-flag-laws-club-q-mass-shooting-2022-11
More cops refusing to do their jobs to protect people.
Are these the good cops or bad cops? I can’t keep track
-
Are you asking if all shootings are hate crimes? If so, no they are not all hate crimes. A hate crime is when someone is targeted for being a member of a federally protected class. The Colorado Springs victims seem to have been targeted because of their sexual orientation. The victims in Uvalde were targeted because of the shooter's connection to that school, ergo, not a hate crime.
Yes, I know what a hate crime is. It is some legal mumbo jumbo that put us in certain buckets rather than treating us all as individuals. If some one from one bucket commits a crime against some one in a different bucket that crime is far worse than if some one commits that exact same crime against some one in their own bucket. I am sure the pain of those families who lost a loved one in Colorado Springs far exceeds the pain of those families in Ulvade, if you want to explain hate crime logic to me; but don't tell me hatred played no part in any of these shootings.
-
Yes, I know what a hate crime is. It is some legal mumbo jumbo that put us in certain buckets rather than treating us all as individuals. If some one from one bucket commits a crime against some one in a different bucket that crime is far worse than if some one commits that exact same crime against some one in their own bucket. I am sure the pain of those families who lost a loved one in Colorado Springs far exceeds the pain of those families in Ulvade, if you want to explain hate crime logic to me; but don't tell me hatred played no part in any of these shootings.
You obviously don't know. Hatred and hate crimes are two different things.
At the federal level, a hate crime is a crime motivated by bias against race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, or disability.
If you hate your neighbor and decide to kill him, that is murder. It is not a hate crime.
-
Yes, I know what a hate crime is. It is some legal mumbo jumbo that put us in certain buckets rather than treating us all as individuals. If some one from one bucket commits a crime against some one in a different bucket that crime is far worse than if some one commits that exact same crime against some one in their own bucket. I am sure the pain of those families who lost a loved one in Colorado Springs far exceeds the pain of those families in Ulvade, if you want to explain hate crime logic to me; but don't tell me hatred played no part in any of these shootings.
Are you being intentionally obtuse, or just obtuse?
-
Feeling victimized
-
Yes, I know what a hate crime is. It is some legal mumbo jumbo that put us in certain buckets rather than treating us all as individuals. If some one from one bucket commits a crime against some one in a different bucket that crime is far worse than if some one commits that exact same crime against some one in their own bucket. I am sure the pain of those families who lost a loved one in Colorado Springs far exceeds the pain of those families in Ulvade, if you want to explain hate crime logic to me; but don't tell me hatred played no part in any of these shootings.
You say you know what a hate crime is, but what you gave as a definition is not a hate crime. It's not "someone from one bucket murdering someone from another bucket" it's someone committing a crime against someone, possibly someone from the same bucket as them, because that someone belonged to a specific bucket.
No one said that one causes more pain than another. And no one said hatred doesn't play a role in non-hate crimes. It's just a word to describe a crime with a specific kind of motive.
-
Are these the good cops or bad cops? I can’t keep track
ACAB per jockitch.
-
Another day, another mass shooting..
@MichelleWolfTV: #UPDATE A Chesapeake police spokesperson tells us at this point he believes no more than 10 people have died. It’s unclear if the shooter was an employee. The shooter is now deceased. Officers are walking through the Walmart super center checking for victims.
-
So i guess its not a hate crime now?
https://www.axios.com/2022/11/23/colorado-club-shooting-suspect-non-binary-attorneys-say
-
So i guess its not a hate crime now?
https://www.axios.com/2022/11/23/colorado-club-shooting-suspect-non-binary-attorneys-say
Not necessarily. I don't know the specific laws in Colorado but in most cases you can commit a hate crime against a protected class that you are a member of. Also, LGBTQ+ is not a monolith. The suspect could be a non-binary person who was targeting people who are gay or lesbian, etc.
There is also the possibility that this is merely an attempt at a defense against hate crime charges. Not sure what if any evidence they have that this is a hate crime other than the fact that it was an LGBTQ+ bar. I can't imagine that by itself would be enough to convict (but probably is enough to charge).
-
The Colorado Springs shooting is such a sad story all the way around.
++ The attacker apparently was relentlessly bullied as a teenager -- the kind of thing that happens all the time to kids who are viewed as "different" by their peers and/or family members -- and his father was an abusive dirtball. It doesn't excuse the crime, obviously, but it does add context.
++ There are all the innocent victims of the shooting. Needless loss. Tragic. Marginalized within our society, the victims thought they were in a safe place, only to be gunned down just for being who they were. These kinds of crimes are becoming more common, whether the victims are LGBTQ, Jewish, Muslim, Black, Asian, Latino, etc, and whether they take place in clubs, churches, synagogues, villages, college campuses or wherever.
++ The legal system will work out whether or not this particular attack was a "hate crime." It's not really what's important today -- except, perhaps, to the straight, white males who constantly portray themselves as the real victims.
++ There have been at least 3 mass shootings in America just the past few days. As always, one has to fight off simply shrugging one's shoulders and saying, "What else is new?"
-
We need to lock up losers like this “Mx.” before it gets this bad. Plenty of warning signs, as is usually the case.
-
The Colorado Springs shooting is such a sad story all the way around.
++ The attacker apparently was relentlessly bullied as a teenager -- the kind of thing that happens all the time to kids who are viewed as "different" by their peers and/or family members -- and his father was an abusive dirtball. It doesn't excuse the crime, obviously, but it does add context.
++ There are all the innocent victims of the shooting. Needless loss. Tragic. Marginalized within our society, the victims thought they were in a safe place, only to be gunned down just for being who they were. These kinds of crimes are becoming more common, whether the victims are LGBTQ, Jewish, Muslim, Black, Asian, Latino, etc, and whether they take place in clubs, churches, synagogues, villages, college campuses or wherever.
++ The legal system will work out whether or not this particular attack was a "hate crime." It's not really what's important today -- except, perhaps, to the straight, white males who constantly portray themselves as the real victims.
++ There have been at least 3 mass shootings in America just the past few days. As always, one has to fight off simply shrugging one's shoulders and saying, "What else is new?"
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiOd63mXwAAHHbt?format=jpg&name=small)
But great people like little Billy are more concerned about the definition of a hate crime.
It's FIVE mass shootings in FOUR days. Body count is 17.
America is a parody.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MedicalBasicAnaconda-max-1mb.gif)
-
We need to lock up losers like this “Mx.” before it gets this bad. Plenty of warning signs, as is usually the case.
You're a true Americun. Lock up people before they commit crimes. ::) ::)
How about not giving him access to weapons of war?
-
You're a true Americun. Lock up people before they commit crimes. ::) ::)
How about not giving him access to weapons of war?
“They” have committed crimes in the past
-
this LOSER should never have been out to commit these atrocious crimes but due to this criminal justice reform blah blah...this is what happens.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2022/11/22/colorado-springs-shooting-anderson-aldrich-red-flag-records/10758028002/
"In short: giving those accused of a crime a chance to move on in an arrest that never resulted in a conviction, as was the case in El Paso County in 2021 with Anderson Lee Aldrich, the suspect in the mass shooting in Colorado late Saturday."
in other words, there was no record of his previous "run in"?? nice, blame the gun
-
He found a second amendment sanctuary community. Local officials against red flag laws. Knew his environment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_sanctuary
Law enforcement chose to promote the right to own a gun over restrictions like red flag laws.
So, whether or not he SHOULD have been able to purchase a weapon, in this community law enforcement would not stop him.
I continue to be grateful for courage in the face of carnage.
-
You're a true Americun. Lock up people before they commit crimes. ::) ::)
How about not giving him access to weapons of war?
“They” have committed crimes in the past
Yet again, both can be true.
"Collateral relief" seems like a nice idea in theory. But why its working in a situation like a homemade bomb and threats with said bomb, less than 18 months after said arrest, is pretty bad. Not like it was some misdemeanor drug charge or theft.
-
See: Second amendment sanctuary.
That guys should not have been able to purchase a weapon based on his past. In that jurisdiction, the constabulary has chosen to not enforce Red Flag laws.
I agree. Two things can be true at the same time.
-
"Sanctuary communities" ... another thing we're against, unless we're not.
Similar to "my body my choice" and "law and order."
-
this LOSER should never have been out to commit these atrocious crimes but due to this criminal justice reform blah blah...this is what happens.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2022/11/22/colorado-springs-shooting-anderson-aldrich-red-flag-records/10758028002/
"In short: giving those accused of a crime a chance to move on in an arrest that never resulted in a conviction, as was the case in El Paso County in 2021 with Anderson Lee Aldrich, the suspect in the mass shooting in Colorado late Saturday."
in other words, there was no record of his previous "run in"?? nice, blame the gun
Like Cheeks, you never actually bother to read the stories you link here.
Colorado’s District Attorneys’ Council has raised concerns about the records sealing laws, but has mainly focused on ensuring the records are still available to law enforcement.
So far, they’ve been successful in those efforts, said Timothy Lane, the group’s legislative liaison and policy analyst.
“There’s a difference between sealing and expunging,” Lane said. “All of these records still exist and can be shared with law enforcement agencies if there’s a proper purpose.”
-
Like Cheeks, you never actually bother to read the stories you link here.
Colorado’s District Attorneys’ Council has raised concerns about the records sealing laws, but has mainly focused on ensuring the records are still available to law enforcement.
So far, they’ve been successful in those efforts, said Timothy Lane, the group’s legislative liaison and policy analyst.
“There’s a difference between sealing and expunging,” Lane said. “All of these records still exist and can be shared with law enforcement agencies if there’s a proper purpose.”
and then there's this-"Lee said questions about the system should be directed to the district attorney who decided against prosecuting Aldrich last year—which could have created a criminal record. That record, in turn could have prevented the shooter from legally purchasing firearms.
and this-"“All of these records still exist and can be shared with law enforcement agencies if there's a proper purpose”???
you know what i'm getting at pak and these woke DA's are letting these criminals out and/or off while gov's and atty gen's are emptying our prisons. gee, i wonder why crime is out of control in san fran, ny, et.al. innocent people are getting hurt and killed very unnecessarily. if docs and cops are held accountable for their actions and rightly so, so should judges and DA's and whoever else is recklessly allowing criminals to walk
-
and then there's this-"Lee said questions about the system should be directed to the district attorney who decided against prosecuting Aldrich last year—which could have created a criminal record. That record, in turn could have prevented the shooter from legally purchasing firearms.
and this-"“All of these records still exist and can be shared with law enforcement agencies if there's a proper purpose”???
you know what i'm getting at pak and these woke DA's are letting these criminals out and/or off while gov's and atty gen's are emptying our prisons. gee, i wonder why crime is out of control in san fran, ny, et.al. innocent people are getting hurt and killed very unnecessarily. if docs and cops are held accountable for their actions and rightly so, so should judges and DA's and whoever else is recklessly allowing criminals to walk
I’ll give this a 9.5 out of 10. Fantastic stuff!
-
and then there's this-"Lee said questions about the system should be directed to the district attorney who decided against prosecuting Aldrich last year—which could have created a criminal record. That record, in turn could have prevented the shooter from legally purchasing firearms.
and this-"“All of these records still exist and can be shared with law enforcement agencies if there's a proper purpose”???
you know what i'm getting at pak and these woke DA's are letting these criminals out and/or off while gov's and atty gen's are emptying our prisons. gee, i wonder why crime is out of control in san fran, ny, et.al. innocent people are getting hurt and killed very unnecessarily. if docs and cops are held accountable for their actions and rightly so, so should judges and DA's and whoever else is recklessly allowing criminals to walk
Do you know the information surrounding the DA that chose not to prosecute in this situation?
-
Do you know the information surrounding the DA that chose not to prosecute in this situation?
This is also in TX, not exactly the homestead of "woke DAs". I haven't seen the particulars in that case, but the fact that both he and his mother avoided prosecution in pretty serious cases likely had more to do with the fact that the shooters grandfather is a prominent politician (tea partier and defender of the Jan. 6th insurrection).
-
woke DA's ;D ;D ;D
I guess they need to stop following the First Step Act.
-
and then there's this-"Lee said questions about the system should be directed to the district attorney who decided against prosecuting Aldrich last year—which could have created a criminal record. That record, in turn could have prevented the shooter from legally purchasing firearms.
and this-"“All of these records still exist and can be shared with law enforcement agencies if there's a proper purpose”???
you know what i'm getting at pak and these woke DA's are letting these criminals out and/or off while gov's and atty gen's are emptying our prisons. gee, i wonder why crime is out of control in san fran, ny, et.al. innocent people are getting hurt and killed very unnecessarily. if docs and cops are held accountable for their actions and rightly so, so should judges and DA's and whoever else is recklessly allowing criminals to walk
Sanctuary city to blame, aina?
-
So Roquet stepping directly in it again? Take as old as time.
-
So Roquet stepping directly in it again? Take as old as time.
Here’s my shocked face. His kids need to intervene worse than Chico’s
-
One if the other heroes who stormed the gun made a statement today. He also has a military background.