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MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2022, 07:09:56 AM

Title: True Road Games in November
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2022, 07:09:56 AM
A look back:

22-23: 5 point loss @ #23 Purdue
21-22: N/A
20-21: N/A
19-20: 16 point loss @ #22 Wisconsin
18-19: 23 point loss @ #52 Indiana
17-18: N/A
16-17: N/A
15-16: N/A
14-15: 11 point loss @ #19 Ohio State
13-14: 2 point loss @ #39 Arizona State
12-13: 33 point loss @ #2 Florida
11-12: N/A
10-11: 3 point win @#138 UW-Milwaukee
09-10: N/A
08-09: N/A
07-08: 11 point win vs. non-D1 Chaminade
06-07: 3 point win vs. #148 Valparaiso
05-06: 10 point loss vs. #111 Nebraska
04-05: 8 point win vs. #178 Oakland
03-04: 7 point win vs. #200 St. John's
02-03: N/A (season started a week later than it does now, 21 point loss @ #21 Notre Dame on December 2nd)
01-02: N/A
00-01: N/A
99-00: 9 point loss @ Minnesota

We have literally only beaten a high major on the road in November once in the past 4 coaches and that was a crappy St. John's team that went 6-21. Even in that win and the wins against non-high majors, we've put up terrible performances and only won by single digits (or 11 against a non-D1 team).

I'd venture to say that last night was the best we looked in a November true road game during this near quarter-century stretch. Doesn't mean that this season will go well, but it's another reason I'm not pessimistic about yesterday's performance.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2022, 07:17:36 AM
Yes, last night was the latest in a long tradition.   
Borrowing from Shaka's post game presser, learn and get better.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Goose on November 16, 2022, 07:31:56 AM
TAMU

Last night showed me a bit of where we are as a program. We are short on having big time talent, but a lot of good players that have still have upside potential. Shaka has a system and he is sticking with it and we will see how guys progress. That being said, I think we have upgraded overall talent over last year and I think the incoming recruits for next year will be an additional upgrade.

There will not be many nights that we are outworked by the opponent, and they really have to go all out every night, especially against better teams. I am optimistic that this team will have better success than last year and hopefully that trend continues next year. Shaka is betting a lot on system and type of players he is bringing into the program and I am 100% all in on trusting Shaka with the future of the program.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: mu_hilltopper on November 16, 2022, 07:35:14 AM
A look back:

22-23: 5 point loss @ #23 Purdue
21-22: N/A
20-21: N/A
19-20: 16 point loss @ #22 Wisconsin
18-19: 23 point loss @ #52 Indiana
17-18: N/A
16-17: N/A
15-16: N/A
14-15: 11 point loss @ #19 Ohio State
13-14: 2 point loss @ #39 Arizona State
12-13: 33 point loss @ #2 Florida
11-12: N/A
10-11: 3 point win @#138 UW-Milwaukee


And that UWM game at the MECCA .. when we had future NBA players Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, (and DJO) .. MU was up 18, collapsed to a 2 point game with seconds to play.    Ouch.

Moral of the story .. never play road games in November?
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: wadesworld on November 16, 2022, 08:45:15 AM
Moral victories are fun.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2022, 08:52:07 AM
Moral victories are fun.

If that's the terminology you're comfortable with go for it. For me, it's about being able to differentiate between a loss and a bad loss. Yesterday was a loss.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 16, 2022, 09:20:20 AM
Moral victories are fun.

We need to rehire Steve.  That Year 2 loss to Iowa at home that we lost by 29 and were down 48-21 was proof positive we'd hired the right guy.  Can't believe we lead Number 22 Purdue on the road for 35 minutes.  Time to MOPE and throw in the towel.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 16, 2022, 09:24:35 AM
And that UWM game at the MECCA .. when we had future NBA players Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, (and DJO) .. MU was up 18, collapsed to a 2 point game with seconds to play.    Ouch.

Moral of the story .. never play road games in November?

Dwight Buycks was also on that team.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MuggsyB on November 16, 2022, 09:29:31 AM
If that's the terminology you're comfortable with go for it. For me, it's about being able to differentiate between a loss and a bad loss. Yesterday was a loss.

There is context  to every win and loss.  Yesterday we had outplayed Purdue for 30 mins before collapsing down the stretch.  On paper yes, it's a loss as opposed to a bad loss.  But you can't completely disregard what specifically happens during the course of the game. We also have no idea how good Purdue will be this season. 
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2022, 09:45:31 AM
There is context  to every win and loss.  Yesterday we had outplayed Purdue for 30 mins before collapsing down the stretch.  On paper yes, it's a loss as opposed to a bad loss.  But you can't completely disregard what specifically happens during the course of the game. We also have no idea how good Purdue will be this season.

How has I or anyone "completely disregarded what specifically happened during the course of the game"? We also have some idea on how good Purdue will be because we've seen them play three games now. Historically, Painter-led teams get better as the season goes on.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Goose on November 16, 2022, 09:49:21 AM
I do not believe in moral victories, but do believe in judging progress by the way games play out. IMO, this team is further along at this point than they were a year ago. I hate to say it, but if Justin Lewis was back on this team, I think they would be top three team in the BE. Finding a Justin Lewis is not easy, but only needing to fill one spot next year is easier than filling multiple spots.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 16, 2022, 09:53:11 AM
Dwight Buycks was also on that team.

Visions of @ Louisville dancing in my head....
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 16, 2022, 10:06:13 AM
Visions of @ Louisville dancing in my head....

A true coach would've coaxed the NBA talent out of him
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: cheebs09 on November 16, 2022, 10:21:18 AM
It would have been great to win and that’s the goal. However, I feel more confident about this team’s tournament chances and where they are at than I did before the game. That softens the blow of the loss for me.

It is possible to take positives from losses. Very few teams go undefeated.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2022, 10:58:31 AM
I agree with cheebs, Goose and Wiz.

To me, it's not a "moral victory" to look at progress and make assessments.

I'm encouraged about this year's team, and very encouraged about the direction of the program.

Wiz, thanks for that look back on the history of MU's November road games. Eye-opening. I all too vividly remember some of those crappier performances. And you're not even counting the 2013 loss at UWGB ... because that travesty was in December.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2022, 10:59:53 AM
What month did MU lose to Maine?
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Tha Hound on November 16, 2022, 11:32:40 AM
Moral victories are fun.

Very funny to think all this pessimism from you stems from still being butthurt about Wojo being canned, which was of course the right decision, regardless of who his successor is.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 16, 2022, 11:34:01 AM
Moral victories are fun.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FarBlankAmericancrow-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: NolongerWarriors on November 16, 2022, 11:34:38 AM
TAMU

Last night showed me a bit of where we are as a program. We are short on having big time talent, but a lot of good players that have still have upside potential. Shaka has a system and he is sticking with it and we will see how guys progress. That being said, I think we have upgraded overall talent over last year and I think the incoming recruits for next year will be an additional upgrade.

There will not be many nights that we are outworked by the opponent, and they really have to go all out every night, especially against better teams. I am optimistic that this team will have better success than last year and hopefully that trend continues next year. Shaka is betting a lot on system and type of players he is bringing into the program and I am 100% all in on trusting Shaka with the future of the program.

And all of those pie-in-the-sky flowery thoughts mean nothing when MU's players are throwing up brick after brick after brick after brick.

Their ceiling is low because Shaka recruits guys that cannot shoot.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 16, 2022, 11:36:30 AM
And all of those pie-in-the-sky flowery thoughts mean nothing when MU's players are throwing up brick after brick after brick after brick.

Their ceiling is low because Shaka recruits guys that cannot shoot.

What were your thoughts about the Badgers struggles at home against 353rd ranked Green Bay?  This UW team has a low ceiling because Gard recruited guys that can't compete athletically.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: wadesworld on November 16, 2022, 11:46:57 AM
Very funny to think all this pessimism from you stems from still being butthurt about Wojo being canned, which was of course the right decision, regardless of who his successor is.

I was actually a lot higher on the team going into last season than most people around here were.  I thought we would be a bubble team and liked that we had an elite defender at the point of attack in Morsell and elite rim protector in Kuath.  I thought that was a solid starting point.  The team outperformed my (modestly more optimistic) expectations going into last year, so hopefully they outperform my expectations this year.  I like Shaka a lot, and was thrilled when we thought we were getting him the first time around.

The pessimism this year comes from us losing our (by far) two best players from a team that had one really hot month and otherwise was just meh, and replaced them with two three stars, an NAIA transfer, and an international recruit.  I saw (and still see) guys who can play one side of the ball but struggle on the other side.  Stevie and OMax are hounds defensively.  Kolek can control the pace of the game and manipulate the defense.  Oso is performing much better than expected and is one guy who performs well both offensively and defensively.  But I have 0 confidence at all in any of those guys' perimeter shooting.  And basketball at all levels now is about shooting.  When 4 of your 5 starters are not threats to shoot at all, that's a problem.  And off the bench we have one guy who is a threat.  Maybe Ben Gold or Sean Jones can be a second guy off the bench, but I'm not counting on it this year.

I don't see the talent.  You need All Conference level talent to compete with the top of a conference.  Jop and Kam could have the offensive numbers, but they're as bad on defense as they are good on offense.  Kolek and Oso could maybe get there, but when you can't score from more than 5 feet from the rim it'll be difficult to get the scoring numbers.

We'll see.  I'd love to be wrong, but the only guy playing better than what I expected so far this year is Oso.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 16, 2022, 11:48:00 AM
I was actually a lot higher on the team going into last season than most people around here were.  I thought we would be a bubble team and liked that we had an elite defender at the point of attack in Morsell and elite rim protector in Kuath.  I thought that was a solid starting point.  The team outperformed my (modestly more optimistic) expectations going into last year, so hopefully they outperform my expectations this year.  I like Shaka a lot, and was thrilled when we thought we were getting him the first time around.

The pessimism this year comes from us losing our (by far) two best players from a team that had one really hot month and otherwise was just meh, and replaced them with two three stars, an NAIA transfer, and an international recruit.  I saw (and still see) guys who can play one side of the ball but struggle on the other side.  Stevie and OMax are hounds defensively.  Kolek can control the pace of the game and manipulate the defense.  Oso is performing much better than expected and is one guy who performs well both offensively and defensively.  But I have 0 confidence at all in any of those guy's perimeter shooting.  And basketball at all levels now is about shooting.  When 4 of your 5 starters are not threats to shoot at all, that's a problem.  And off the bench we have one guy who is a threat.  Maybe Ben Gold or Sean Jones can be a second guy off the bench, but I'm not counting on it this year.

I don't see the talent.  You need All Conference level talent to compete with the top of a conference.  Jop and Kam could have the offensive numbers, but they're as bad on defense as they are good on offense.  Kolek and Oso could maybe get there, but when you can't score from more than 5 feet from the rim it'll be difficult to get the scoring numbers.

We'll see.  I'd love to be wrong, but the only guy playing better than what I expected so far this year is Oso.

These are fair points
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Goose on November 16, 2022, 12:01:06 PM
Wades

I think you are missing the boat on Kolek. I see a much better version of Kolek already this season, both physically and on the defensive side of the ball. If he a team of shooters around him, he would average 10+ assists a game. IMO, he a better player than he was a year ago.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: bilsu on November 16, 2022, 12:01:11 PM
I always thought it is very hard to win the first true road game.

I was very encouraged last night. We lost our lead when we subbed in Ross and Gold. I look forward to when these two have more experience.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: wadesworld on November 16, 2022, 12:10:45 PM
Wades

I think you are missing the boat on Kolek. I see a much better version of Kolek already this season, both physically and on the defensive side of the ball. If he a team of shooters around him, he would average 10+ assists a game. IMO, he a better player than he was a year ago.

I agree that he's a better version of the player that he was last year.  I love him as our point guard.  But I also agree that if he had 4 offensive weapons around him, he'd be an incredible player.  But as it is we need a couple players outside of Kam and Jop to step up and score the rock.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: jfp61 on November 16, 2022, 12:17:12 PM
I was actually a lot higher on the team going into last season than most people around here were.  I thought we would be a bubble team and liked that we had an elite defender at the point of attack in Morsell and elite rim protector in Kuath.  I thought that was a solid starting point.  The team outperformed my (modestly more optimistic) expectations going into last year, so hopefully they outperform my expectations this year.  I like Shaka a lot, and was thrilled when we thought we were getting him the first time around.

The pessimism this year comes from us losing our (by far) two best players from a team that had one really hot month and otherwise was just meh, and replaced them with two three stars, an NAIA transfer, and an international recruit.  I saw (and still see) guys who can play one side of the ball but struggle on the other side.  Stevie and OMax are hounds defensively.  Kolek can control the pace of the game and manipulate the defense.  Oso is performing much better than expected and is one guy who performs well both offensively and defensively.  But I have 0 confidence at all in any of those guys' perimeter shooting.  And basketball at all levels now is about shooting.  When 4 of your 5 starters are not threats to shoot at all, that's a problem.  And off the bench we have one guy who is a threat.  Maybe Ben Gold or Sean Jones can be a second guy off the bench, but I'm not counting on it this year.

I don't see the talent.  You need All Conference level talent to compete with the top of a conference.  Jop and Kam could have the offensive numbers, but they're as bad on defense as they are good on offense.  Kolek and Oso could maybe get there, but when you can't score from more than 5 feet from the rim it'll be difficult to get the scoring numbers.

We'll see.  I'd love to be wrong, but the only guy playing better than what I expected so far this year is Oso.

That's high on morsell honestly. "By far" is a little extreme. It implies he was within 2 tiers of the player Justin Lewis was, when he really wasn't.  He was in the same tier of player as Kolek, Omax, Oso, and Kur. You could probably have him second, but that gap was small.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: muwarrior69 on November 16, 2022, 12:27:29 PM
A look back:

22-23: 5 point loss @ #23 Purdue
21-22: N/A
20-21: N/A
19-20: 16 point loss @ #22 Wisconsin
18-19: 23 point loss @ #52 Indiana
17-18: N/A
16-17: N/A
15-16: N/A
14-15: 11 point loss @ #19 Ohio State
13-14: 2 point loss @ #39 Arizona State
12-13: 33 point loss @ #2 Florida
11-12: N/A
10-11: 3 point win @#138 UW-Milwaukee
09-10: N/A
08-09: N/A
07-08: 11 point win vs. non-D1 Chaminade
06-07: 3 point win vs. #148 Valparaiso
05-06: 10 point loss vs. #111 Nebraska
04-05: 8 point win vs. #178 Oakland
03-04: 7 point win vs. #200 St. John's
02-03: N/A (season started a week later than it does now, 21 point loss @ #21 Notre Dame on December 2nd)
01-02: N/A
00-01: N/A
99-00: 9 point loss @ Minnesota

We have literally only beaten a high major on the road in November once in the past 4 coaches and that was a crappy St. John's team that went 6-21. Even in that win and the wins against non-high majors, we've put up terrible performances and only won by single digits (or 11 against a non-D1 team).

I'd venture to say that last night was the best we looked in a November true road game during this near quarter-century stretch. Doesn't mean that this season will go well, but it's another reason I'm not pessimistic about yesterday's performance.

We really suck on the road in November. I had no idea we were/are that bad. How do we stack up with the rest of the league?
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2022, 01:25:56 PM
I was actually a lot higher on the team going into last season than most people around here were.  I thought we would be a bubble team and liked that we had an elite defender at the point of attack in Morsell and elite rim protector in Kuath.  I thought that was a solid starting point.  The team outperformed my (modestly more optimistic) expectations going into last year, so hopefully they outperform my expectations this year.  I like Shaka a lot, and was thrilled when we thought we were getting him the first time around.

The pessimism this year comes from us losing our (by far) two best players from a team that had one really hot month and otherwise was just meh, and replaced them with two three stars, an NAIA transfer, and an international recruit.  I saw (and still see) guys who can play one side of the ball but struggle on the other side.  Stevie and OMax are hounds defensively.  Kolek can control the pace of the game and manipulate the defense.  Oso is performing much better than expected and is one guy who performs well both offensively and defensively.  But I have 0 confidence at all in any of those guys' perimeter shooting.  And basketball at all levels now is about shooting.  When 4 of your 5 starters are not threats to shoot at all, that's a problem.  And off the bench we have one guy who is a threat.  Maybe Ben Gold or Sean Jones can be a second guy off the bench, but I'm not counting on it this year.

I don't see the talent.  You need All Conference level talent to compete with the top of a conference.  Jop and Kam could have the offensive numbers, but they're as bad on defense as they are good on offense.  Kolek and Oso could maybe get there, but when you can't score from more than 5 feet from the rim it'll be difficult to get the scoring numbers.

We'll see.  I'd love to be wrong, but the only guy playing better than what I expected so far this year is Oso.

I disagree with a couple of points, wades, but overall this is a fair assessment of why one might be pessimistic about our season.

My optimism centers on how hard we play, on more shots falling, and on improvement as the season goes on. If we stop playing hard (I doubt that will happen), if more shots don't fall (possible; as you say, we might simply be a bad-shooting team), and/or if we don't get gradual improvement (we'll see!), it will be a non-NCAAT season.

I choose to take the optimistic view here in mid-November, but I'm not naive. I know it could end up being disappointing if enough of the "ifs" don't work in our favor.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: wadesworld on November 16, 2022, 01:46:12 PM
That's high on morsell honestly. "By far" is a little extreme. It implies he was within 2 tiers of the player Justin Lewis was, when he really wasn't.  He was in the same tier of player as Kolek, Omax, Oso, and Kur. You could probably have him second, but that gap was small.

Morsell was our second leading scorer (by almost double our 3rd leading scorer), 4th leading rebounder (0.2 rebounds shy of 2nd leading rebounder), 2nd leading assist man, 2nd leading steals man, 4th leading blocks man, 3rd leading 3 point shooter (didn't include Ellis or Mitchell because they both shot less than 1 three pointer per game).  I could hear a case for Kolek being close to Morsell, but I don't think OMax, Oso, or Kur were even close.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2022, 03:39:58 PM
Morsell was our second leading scorer (by almost double our 3rd leading scorer), 4th leading rebounder (0.2 rebounds shy of 2nd leading rebounder), 2nd leading assist man, 2nd leading steals man, 4th leading blocks man, 3rd leading 3 point shooter (didn't include Ellis or Mitchell because they both shot less than 1 three pointer per game).  I could hear a case for Kolek being close to Morsell, but I don't think OMax, Oso, or Kur were even close.

I tend to agree Morsell was our second-best player but not all that much better than Kolek.

Morsell was the best player on the court for us the first 4 games -- a true revelation as he averaged 22.5 ppg on 57% shooting. But then, the rest of the way, he was much closer to the guy he was for 4 years at Maryland, averaging 12 ppg on 43% shooting. Still played fine D and did other things well, though Shaka did bench him a couple times.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: LAZER on November 16, 2022, 03:43:41 PM
I tend to agree Morsell was our second-best player but not all that much better than Kolek.

Morsell was the best player on the court for us the first 4 games -- a true revelation as he averaged 22.5 ppg on 57% shooting. But then, the rest of the way, he was much closer to the guy he was for 4 years at Maryland, averaging 12 ppg on 43% shooting. Still played fine D and did other things well, though Shaka did bench him a couple times.
Really could've used him last night down the stretch.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2022, 04:07:46 PM
Shaka mentioned during his presser that the guys on the floor down the stretch last night were on the bench last year.
Last year, Kur, Darryl, Justin, and probably Greg would have been on the floor down the stretch.  Young guys have to figure it out.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2022, 08:40:38 PM
Shaka mentioned during his presser that the guys on the floor down the stretch last night were on the bench last year.
Last year, Kur, Darryl, Justin, and probably Greg would have been on the floor down the stretch.  Young guys have to figure it out.

There is one person, and one person only to blame (or credit) with the lineup we had available down the stretch last night or any night this season.

I like Shaka, and I think he'll do a good job, but he gets no sympathy from me regarding the players he has. He is the Marquette men's basketball GM.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on November 16, 2022, 09:18:43 PM
There is one person, and one person only to blame (or credit) with the lineup we had available down the stretch last night or any night this season.

I like Shaka, and I think he'll do a good job, but he gets no sympathy from me regarding the players he has. He is the Marquette men's basketball GM.

He wasn't asking for sympathy. He's explaining why things didn't go smoothly.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2022, 09:25:58 PM
He wasn't asking for sympathy. He's explaining why things didn't go smoothly.

Fair. "Sympathy" was a poor word choice on my part.

But it does sound like Shaka is making an excuse (as well as stating a fact). The way his roster is constructed is 100% up to him. If roster construction contributed to the loss, there's only one person responsible for that.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: #UnleashSean on November 16, 2022, 10:17:09 PM
Fair. "Sympathy" was a poor word choice on my part.

But it does sound like Shaka is making an excuse (as well as stating a fact). The way his roster is constructed is 100% up to him. If roster construction contributed to the loss, there's only one person responsible for that.

Id have to look back, but weren't you one of the guys who continued to give Wojo a pass claiming "bare cupboard". Pretty rough to give a coach in year 2 grief for not having a strong depth. Especially when you consider he lost a very strong piece in Lewis who very few people would have thought would go pro this time last year.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: BCHoopster on November 17, 2022, 12:01:42 AM
Id have to look back, but weren't you one of the guys who continued to give Wojo a pass claiming "bare cupboard". Pretty rough to give a coach in year 2 grief for not having a strong depth. Especially when you consider he lost a very strong piece in Lewis who very few people would have thought would go pro this time last year.
[/quote

Lewis was a big loss, Morsell as much as both could create there own shot.  Two alpha dogs last year.  This year, other then Kolek, who can take over or get to the hoop. Joplin and Kam, even Omax, are not drivers of the ball.  Oso is to timid,  Mitchell not quick enough, so it will be interesting the last 5 minutes of every game. This is called coaching, Shaka failed his first close game.  He is building a roster, so he will have seniors and juniors next year, an older team with lots of depth, Tre Norman might be that Alpha Dog, we will see.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on November 17, 2022, 12:12:41 AM
Id have to look back, but weren't you one of the guys who continued to give Wojo a pass claiming "bare cupboard". Pretty rough to give a coach in year 2 grief for not having a strong depth. Especially when you consider he lost a very strong piece in Lewis who very few people would have thought would go pro this time last year.
[/quote

Lewis was a big loss, Morsell as much as both could create there own shot.  Two alpha dogs last year.  This year, other then Kolek, who can take over or get to the hoop. Joplin and Kam, even Omax, are not drivers of the ball.  Oso is to timid,  Mitchell not quick enough, so it will be interesting the last 5 minutes of every game. This is called coaching, Shaka failed his first close game.  He is building a roster, so he will have seniors and juniors next year, an older team with lots of depth, Tre Norman might be that Alpha Dog, we will see.

I'm confused at how someone can say this team doesn't have depth.

This is as balanced and deep of a team as we've seen here in quite some time.

10 guys can get minutes and our leading scorer comes off the bench.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: BCHoopster on November 17, 2022, 12:53:28 AM
MU has a deep roster, but young.  Need another year to grow together. Expect big improvement when the team is juniors and seniors.  Just do not have an alpha dog as of now.  Best 2 scorers have ice in there veins, and do not know what a good or bad shot is. As Shaka says Kam is shooting the ball from half court, not winning plays.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MU82 on November 17, 2022, 07:02:59 AM
Id have to look back, but weren't you one of the guys who continued to give Wojo a pass claiming "bare cupboard". Pretty rough to give a coach in year 2 grief for not having a strong depth. Especially when you consider he lost a very strong piece in Lewis who very few people would have thought would go pro this time last year.

I gave Wojo a pass in Year 1. He was a first-time head coach taking over a roster that I felt had shortcomings. After that, I expected him to build a team that would show progress as Marquette built itself back into a team that would be able to make NCAAT runs. It took longer that I wanted but I felt he had made progress through Year 5.

Shaka is an established coach who, again, was brought here to re-build the program. He has done a great job so far. I'm not the one who is using his current roster as an excuse for anything. If Shaka has a problem with the construction of his roster, that is on him, is it not? Who else is to "blame" (for lack of better word) for us not bringing in any ready-to-compete transfers, especially bigs and 3-point shooters?

I think Shaka is doing a very good job, and I'm excited about this season. But if the head coach is going to publicly cite a lack of this or that roster-wise, something he's done more than once, it's not the best look IMHO.

Anytime Wojo claimed "young team" or "tired legs" or whatever, he was killed for it on Scoop -- and rightly so.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 17, 2022, 07:33:40 AM
I gave Wojo a pass in Year 1. He was a first-time head coach taking over a roster that I felt had shortcomings. After that, I expected him to build a team that would show progress as Marquette built itself back into a team that would be able to make NCAAT runs. It took longer that I wanted but I felt he had made progress through Year 5.

Shaka is an established coach who, again, was brought here to re-build the program. He has done a great job so far. I'm not the one who is using his current roster as an excuse for anything. If Shaka has a problem with the construction of his roster, that is on him, is it not? Who else is to "blame" (for lack of better word) for us not bringing in any ready-to-compete transfers, especially bigs and 3-point shooters?

I think Shaka is doing a very good job, and I'm excited about this season. But if the head coach is going to publicly cite a lack of this or that roster-wise, something he's done more than once, it's not the best look IMHO.

Anytime Wojo claimed "young team" or "tired legs" or whatever, he was killed for it on Scoop -- and rightly so.

You know who doesn’t make excuses?

Rick Pitino
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: panda on November 17, 2022, 08:08:43 AM
The roster is deep because there’s not much separation between a lot of the guys. Not necessarily a negative, but as we saw at Purdue, we didn’t have anyone we could go to late in the game when we needed a bucket. Last year, we leaned heavily on Lewis and Morsell when points were needed but we don’t have that guy yet.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Miss Katie’s on November 17, 2022, 08:41:21 AM
The roster is deep because there’s not much separation between a lot of the guys. Not necessarily a negative, but as we saw at Purdue, we didn’t have anyone we could go to late in the game when we needed a bucket. Last year, we leaned heavily on Lewis and Morsell when points were needed but we don’t have that guy yet.

Agreed.  There is no “go to guy” right now.  I think that’s one thing many had hoped would emerge from the transfer market this past off season — another experienced player who could get his like a Morsell. 
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 17, 2022, 09:29:52 AM
I gave Wojo a pass in Year 1. He was a first-time head coach taking over a roster that I felt had shortcomings. After that, I expected him to build a team that would show progress as Marquette built itself back into a team that would be able to make NCAAT runs. It took longer that I wanted but I felt he had made progress through Year 5.

Shaka is an established coach who, again, was brought here to re-build the program. He has done a great job so far. I'm not the one who is using his current roster as an excuse for anything. If Shaka has a problem with the construction of his roster, that is on him, is it not? Who else is to "blame" (for lack of better word) for us not bringing in any ready-to-compete transfers, especially bigs and 3-point shooters?

I think Shaka is doing a very good job, and I'm excited about this season. But if the head coach is going to publicly cite a lack of this or that roster-wise, something he's done more than once, it's not the best look IMHO.

Anytime Wojo claimed "young team" or "tired legs" or whatever, he was killed for it on Scoop -- and rightly so.

A pass in Year 1??  You gave Wojo 5 years of rope!  Shaka wasn't "making excuses" or looking for "sympathy" for us losing at Purdue due to the young guys playing crunch time minutes - and not having had that experience previously.  He stated it as a fact, and as an area for those guys, and the team to grow.

And FFS Purdue hasn't lost at home since 2019, has an All-American monster in the middle, and we led the game for roughly 34 of the 40 minutes.  Wojo got a shellacking at home in the Gavitt games in Year 2, losing to Iowa 89-61 and being down 48-21 at the half.

But, Jay Wright didn't win an NCAA game until Year 7 of his career.  So. There's that.  Perhaps when Wonder-boy Wojo emerges from his Yoga retreat and takes his next head coaching job, he'll breakthrough in Year 7 and get his NCAA win and go on to a Hall of Fame coaching career like Jay Wright.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MU82 on November 17, 2022, 09:40:12 AM
A pass in Year 1??  You gave Wojo 5 years of rope!  Shaka wasn't "making excuses" or looking for "sympathy" for us losing at Purdue due to the young guys playing crunch time minutes - and not having had that experience previously.  He stated it as a fact, and as an area for those guys, and the team to grow.

And FFS Purdue hasn't lost at home since 2019, has an All-American monster in the middle, and we led the game for roughly 34 of the 40 minutes.  Wojo got a shellacking at home in the Gavitt games in Year 2, losing to Iowa 89-61 and being down 48-21 at the half.

But, Jay Wright didn't win an NCAA game until Year 7 of his career.  So. There's that.  Perhaps when Wonder-boy Wojo emerges from his Yoga retreat and takes his next head coaching job, he'll breakthrough in Year 7 and get his NCAA win and go on to a Hall of Fame coaching career like Jay Wright.

Cool.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: panda on November 17, 2022, 09:42:19 AM
Agreed.  There is no “go to guy” right now.  I think that’s one thing many had hoped would emerge from the transfer market this past off season — another experienced player who could get his like a Morsell.

Both Lewis and Morsell could be counted on to get the tough buckets when needed. Just thinking back to the Creighton game and remembering our offense stalling until Morsell went bully ball and single handedly kept us in the game.

We just don’t have that guy who can get a bucket when needed.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Goose on November 17, 2022, 10:02:42 AM
I think MU got the most out of Morsell and Lewis last year, especially before the end of season decline. Both played very big roles in the great run and were major part of the success. That said, I think they both became more driven by selfish goals as the season played out and played a bigger role in the swoon. I do not fault either guy for showcasing their skills, especially when MU was receiving national attention, but I believe they were not the same players the last 3-4 weeks of the season.

Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: withoutbias on November 17, 2022, 10:11:00 AM
I'm starting to think anybody who leads Marquette in scoring that isn't Caucasian will be labeled as selfish and only in it for themselves at Marquette.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Goose on November 17, 2022, 10:13:24 AM
Bias

Then you are one fxxked up dude.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: muwarrior69 on November 17, 2022, 10:15:28 AM
MU has a deep roster, but young.  Need another year to grow together. Expect big improvement when the team is juniors and seniors.  Just do not have an alpha dog as of now.  Best 2 scorers have ice in there veins, and do not know what a good or bad shot is. As Shaka says Kam is shooting the ball from half court, not winning plays.

Wow! Looking toward next year and we're only 3 games in this season.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 17, 2022, 10:19:27 AM
I'm starting to think anybody who leads Marquette in scoring that isn't Caucasian will be labeled as selfish and only in it for themselves at Marquette.

Why?

Bias

Then you are one fxxked up dude.

Agree with this analysis
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 17, 2022, 10:19:43 AM
I think MU got the most out of Morsell and Lewis last year, especially before the end of season decline. Both played very big roles in the great run and were major part of the success. That said, I think they both became more driven by selfish goals as the season played out and played a bigger role in the swoon. I do not fault either guy for showcasing their skills, especially when MU was receiving national attention, but I believe they were not the same players the last 3-4 weeks of the season.

No offense Goose, but that’s not true at all with regards to Justin
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: panda on November 17, 2022, 10:21:07 AM
No offense Goose, but that’s not true at all with regards to Justin

They were the two best players on the team. They should’ve been selfish.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 10:22:13 AM
Bias

Then you are one fxxked up dude.
Nah, he is about right.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 10:25:24 AM
I think MU got the most out of Morsell and Lewis last year, especially before the end of season decline. Both played very big roles in the great run and were major part of the success. That said, I think they both became more driven by selfish goals as the season played out and played a bigger role in the swoon. I do not fault either guy for showcasing their skills, especially when MU was receiving national attention, but I believe they were not the same players the last 3-4 weeks of the season.
No, coaches really focused D on both of them specially JFL. We had no real answer on offense.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 17, 2022, 10:25:40 AM
They were the two best players on the team. They should’ve been selfish.

Darryl’s numbers down the stretch were pretty bad.  Justin had a few clunkers, too, but his play matched the arc of his overall season
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: panda on November 17, 2022, 10:27:28 AM
Darryl’s numbers down the stretch were pretty bad.  Justin had a few clunkers, too, but his play matched the arc of his overall season

No one’s numbers down the stretch were great, but if not Justin, I’m still picking Daryl last year to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game. No one else really stepped up at the opportunity.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 10:30:30 AM
No one’s numbers down the stretch were great, but if not Justin, I’m still picking Daryl last year to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game. No one else really stepped up at the opportunity.
Yup 5 year senior, experience is a big factor specially in college, and experience at high level.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 17, 2022, 10:39:37 AM
No one’s numbers down the stretch were great, but if not Justin, I’m still picking Daryl last year to have the ball in his hands at the end of the game. No one else really stepped up at the opportunity.

Yeah, I don’t have a problem with how they were used.

If they were being “selfish”, then the coach has to correct that, no?  If Shaka didn’t, then that’s a failure on his part.

I don’t believe either of those things are true, so no, I’m not pining for Hank Raymonds or any other coach
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 17, 2022, 10:44:57 AM
I asked the question in preseason as to who were going to be the "go to guys"?  The Scoop Intelligencia overall responded with Kolek, OMax and Kam.

This game we got last year's shooting Tyler, Moon Shot Kam and Joplin instead of OMax at the end.

It will take time for the pieces to come together.  The COLE Bus has plenty of seats still on it. Come join me.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: bilsu on November 17, 2022, 11:00:13 AM
It surprises me to say this, but I would start Joplin over Omax.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: withoutbias on November 17, 2022, 11:01:14 AM
Yeah, I don’t have a problem with how they were used.

If they were being “selfish”, then the coach has to correct that, no?  If Shaka didn’t, then that’s a failure on his part.

I don’t believe either of those things are true, so no, I’m not pining for Hank Raymonds or any other coach

This, exactly.  The meat men twist themselves into pretzels to try to knock Steve and slurp Shaka.  On one end you just "don't know ball" if you can't see the difference between 0 NCAA Tournament wins in the last 7 seasons and 0 NCAA Tournament wins in the last 7 seasons, and then the coach needs to get his team not to play selfishly when it's Markus playing selfishly but it's the players' fault when it's Shaka's squad.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: tower912 on November 17, 2022, 11:12:38 AM
It surprises me to say this, but I would start Joplin over Omax.

I do not see how you can start Kam and Joplin together at this point.   
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MUfan12 on November 17, 2022, 11:15:09 AM
I do not see how you can start Kam and Joplin together at this point.

You can't. The lack of defensive awareness would be really hard to overcome without an eraser at the rim.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 17, 2022, 11:22:22 AM
This, exactly.  The meat men twist themselves into pretzels to try to knock Steve and slurp Shaka.  On one end you just "don't know ball" if you can't see the difference between 0 NCAA Tournament wins in the last 7 seasons and 0 NCAA Tournament wins in the last 7 seasons, and then the coach needs to get his team not to play selfishly when it's Markus playing selfishly but it's the players' fault when it's Shaka's squad.

No need to twist into pretzels to try to knock Steve...that's an effortless and logical reality to assert he was a terrible coach.  Sorry you were a Projo and Steve Slurper...just another in a long string of loser takes you make. 
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 11:25:34 AM
You can't. The lack of defensive awareness would be really hard to overcome without an eraser at the rim.
Yes it would be brutal.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 11:27:05 AM
I asked the question in preseason as to who were going to be the "go to guys"?  The Scoop Intelligencia overall responded with Kolek, OMax and Kam.

This game we got last year's shooting Tyler, Moon Shot Kam and Joplin instead of OMax at the end.

It will take time for the pieces to come together.  The COLE Bus has plenty of seats still on it. Come join me.
Better yet, I'll buy you a beer this weekend.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Goose on November 17, 2022, 11:30:20 AM
Rico

I stated I had zero problem with their "selfish" play at the end of last season. They put themselves and the team in a very good position in January and deserved a bit of rope. That being said, if I were the coach, I would have to talked to them about it. In addition, I think any "selfish" play be those two was not a 40 minute a game event, more several times a game forcing things.

Bias

This meat guy thought Wojo was a horrible leader and basketball coach. He was a decent recruiter, IMO, but a very bad D1 coach IMO. Time will tell if he gets a second chance or not to prove otherwise.

My bar for Shaka is much, much higher than it was for Steve and I will judge him accordingly. One year and three games in I think Shaka is going the right direction, but still a lot of work to be done. It is 100% up to him to recruit the right guys and win basketball games, plain and simple. If we are stuck in quicksand in two years and 19-11 I will be the first to jump all over Shaka.

Your comment amount a white guy leading the team in scoring is kind of funny to me. You would think that Wojo would be getting more support than Shaka be using that twisting logic.


Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 17, 2022, 11:41:59 AM
Yes it would be brutal.

And yet, MU built its lead with Kam and Jop in the game in the 2nd, lost it when Jop subbed out, and then closed it when Jop subbed back in at the end (too little, too late).

Will that work every night? Maybe not but Jop is an Alpha.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 17, 2022, 11:57:56 AM
IIRC there was more than one presser during last season's swoon where Shaka emphasized that they needed to get back to playing for each other. Was that in reference to Justin and Darryl? Someone else? Or was it just a canned coachism? Wish Shaka would come around so he could tell us.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 12:03:36 PM
And yet, MU built its lead with Kam and Jop in the game in the 2nd, lost it when Jop subbed out, and then closed it when Jop subbed back in at the end (too little, too late).

Will that work every night? Maybe not but Jop is an Alpha.
True but it was a special circumstance, Edey effect?
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Tha Hound on November 17, 2022, 12:20:05 PM
Whole lotta noise around a game that nearly everyone assumed we'd lose but in reality were the better team for the vast majority of it.

I generally agree with the lack of talent complaints, especially with Wrightsil looking like a 10th man, but how many times do we have to be reminded of Shaka's long-term strategy of building a cohesive team from the ground-up?

If you've been paying attention, things are going almost exactly like Shaka said they would from the beginning. If we don't end up showing progress over the course of this season, I think its totally fair to blame Shaka for roster construction etc. But if you have hundreds of posts on this forum, you shouldn't be surprised by the makeup of our roster at this point.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 17, 2022, 12:27:26 PM
Better yet, I'll buy you a beer this weekend.

Did I hear free beer?
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 12:32:16 PM
Did I hear free beer?
You got it, don't let dgies know, JB?
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 17, 2022, 01:41:17 PM
Whole lotta noise around a game that nearly everyone assumed we'd lose but in reality were the better team for the vast majority of it.

I generally agree with the lack of talent complaints, especially with Wrightsil looking like a 10th man, but how many times do we have to be reminded of Shaka's long-term strategy of building a cohesive team from the ground-up?

If you've been paying attention, things are going almost exactly like Shaka said they would from the beginning. If we don't end up showing progress over the course of this season, I think its totally fair to blame Shaka for roster construction etc. But if you have hundreds of posts on this forum, you shouldn't be surprised by the makeup of our roster at this point.

Well said.  Wrightsill may not make much of an impact, but as I recall we pursued some other coveted 4-man transfers and didn't hit the winners circle.  Such is life in recruiting at times. 

My horizon to see how thing are going per Shaka's plan is how we finish in 2023-2024.  Assuming all the core guys stay (we are oversigned by 1) I expect we will have a Top 3 Big East team and what should be a team that is capable to advance to a Round of 32/Sweet 16.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: withoutbias on November 17, 2022, 02:12:48 PM
Well said.  Wrightsill may not make much of an impact, but as I recall we pursued some other coveted 4-man transfers and didn't hit the winners circle.  Such is life in recruiting at times. 

My horizon to see how thing are going per Shaka's plan is how we finish in 2023-2024.  Assuming all the core guys stay (we are oversigned by 1) I expect we will have a Top 3 Big East team and what should be a team that is capable to advance to a Round of 32/Sweet 16.

I thought Shaka could win a living room and land recruits Steve had no shot at.  See each guy's performance at the podium, after all.

I do appreciate that after 7 years crying that Shaka is making excuses when he says the team was tired or young, suddenly saying our team is young is no longer an excuse it's just an explanation.  Weird.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MU82 on November 17, 2022, 03:42:42 PM

My bar for Shaka is much, much higher than it was for Steve and I will judge him accordingly. One year and three games in I think Shaka is going the right direction, but still a lot of work to be done. It is 100% up to him to recruit the right guys and win basketball games, plain and simple. If we are stuck in quicksand in two years and 19-11 I will be the first to jump all over Shaka.

Yes. This.

Shaka is a proven coach who has accomplished things, and he has a winning personality. I simply expect more from him.

Of course, sometimes when one says that, a guy like Ners will say, "Yeah, but what about you giving Wojo a pass?" I admit that I wish I hadn't been so patient with Wojo (not that me being impatient would have changed anything).

But Wojo has nothing to do with Shaka. Our current coach has been a great recruiter and big winner. And if he fails to be a great recruiter at Marquette, and if that failure keeps him from being a big winner at Marquette, he'll deserve the blame.

I don't know why anybody wouldn't hold Shaka to a high standard. And especially after last season, I don't know why any Marquette fan wouldn't have high expectations for this season and next. So far, I think he's doing very well, and I don't think it's unrealistic to expect continued progress.

All I said was I don't really like to hear the guy in charge of roster construction blaming roster construction for any of our problems. It's like the guy in charge of cleaning windows looking up and saying, "We don't have enough light coming into the room because our windows are dirty."
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 17, 2022, 04:01:50 PM
Yes. This.

Shaka is a proven coach who has accomplished things, and he has a winning personality. I simply expect more from him.

Of course, sometimes when one says that, a guy like Ners will say, "Yeah, but what about you giving Wojo a pass?" I admit that I wish I hadn't been so patient with Wojo (not that me being impatient would have changed anything).

But Wojo has nothing to do with Shaka. Our current coach has been a great recruiter and big winner. And if he fails to be a great recruiter at Marquette, and if that failure keeps him from being a big winner at Marquette, he'll deserve the blame.

I don't know why anybody wouldn't hold Shaka to a high standard. And especially after last season, I don't know why any Marquette fan wouldn't have high expectations for this season and next. So far, I think he's doing very well, and I don't think it's unrealistic to expect continued progress.

All I said was I don't really like to hear the guy in charge of roster construction blaming roster construction for any of our problems. It's like the guy in charge of cleaning windows looking up and saying, "We don't have enough light coming into the room because our windows are dirty."

Slurper
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 17, 2022, 04:42:36 PM
I thought Shaka could win a living room and land recruits Steve had no shot at.  See each guy's performance at the podium, after all.

I do appreciate that after 7 years crying that Shaka is making excuses when he says the team was tired or young, suddenly saying our team is young is no longer an excuse it's just an explanation.  Weird.

It is par for the course for you to back a loser like Wojo.  There is ZERO double standard comparing Shaka's quotes to Wojos.  Not sure why you'd try to hitch your wagon to a proven loser like Wojo, but you are one weird dude, Bias.  So.  There's that.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 17, 2022, 04:50:31 PM
Yes. This.

Shaka is a proven coach who has accomplished things, and he has a winning personality. I simply expect more from him.

Of course, sometimes when one says that, a guy like Ners will say, "Yeah, but what about you giving Wojo a pass?" I admit that I wish I hadn't been so patient with Wojo (not that me being impatient would have changed anything).

But Wojo has nothing to do with Shaka. Our current coach has been a great recruiter and big winner. And if he fails to be a great recruiter at Marquette, and if that failure keeps him from being a big winner at Marquette, he'll deserve the blame.

I don't know why anybody wouldn't hold Shaka to a high standard. And especially after last season, I don't know why any Marquette fan wouldn't have high expectations for this season and next. So far, I think he's doing very well, and I don't think it's unrealistic to expect continued progress.

All I said was I don't really like to hear the guy in charge of roster construction blaming roster construction for any of our problems. It's like the guy in charge of cleaning windows looking up and saying, "We don't have enough light coming into the room because our windows are dirty."

Facepalm.  Shaka wasn't making excuses or blaming roster construction.  He simply stated a fact. The difference between those of us bullish on Shaka and the Projos is that Projos made excuses for incredibly obvious subpar coaching. 

If you think Shaka making the NCAA Year 1, and us losing at Purdue, at a venue they haven't lost in since 2019,  in a game that we led for 34 of 40 minutes, in Year 2 - commenting that young guys are in roles they've never been in - is a "problem" or parallels anything like the blame game played during the Steve Wojo years - I've got some oceanfront property to sell you in Kansas.

Context.  Context. Context. 
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 17, 2022, 05:00:31 PM
2
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Goose on November 17, 2022, 05:10:01 PM
82

Of course Shaka should be held to higher standards than previous coaches. His job is to represent the university in a first class manner, and more importantly, win basketball games in March. I am not a five year guy and I stated the day Shaka was hired I was going to judge him starting day one.

To date, I think he has done a very good job and the bar gets higher every year. Now, I am surprised with the lack of going after higher rated recruits, but if he can find a way to win in March with zero star recruits that is fine by me.

It simply comes down to winning for this fan and I believe Shaka has a plan in place to win at MU. Imo, he is awfully confident in the plan he has in place and that gives me optimism for the future.

Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 05:10:18 PM
It is par for the course for you to back a loser like Wojo.  There is ZERO double standard comparing Shaka's quotes to Wojos.  Not sure why you'd try to hitch your wagon to a proven loser like Wojo, but you are one weird dude, Bias.  So.  There's that.
So much hate
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 17, 2022, 05:15:39 PM
So much hate

Annoyance (with silly arguments from Projos) 
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Galway Eagle on November 17, 2022, 05:20:21 PM
Facepalm.  Shaka wasn't making excuses or blaming roster construction.  He simply stated a fact. The difference between those of us bullish on Shaka and the Projos is that Projos made excuses for incredibly obvious subpar coaching. 

If you think Shaka making the NCAA Year 1, and us losing at Purdue, at a venue they haven't lost in since 2019,  in a game that we led for 34 of 40 minutes, in Year 2 - commenting that young guys are in roles they've never been in - is a "problem" or parallels anything like the blame game played during the Steve Wojo years - I've got some oceanfront property to sell you in Kansas.

Context.  Context. Context.

we ignoring that they lost there in 2021?

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401263407

I don't have a dog in this fight but keep it honest
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 17, 2022, 05:26:12 PM
3
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 17, 2022, 07:27:30 PM
4
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 07:43:51 PM
Annoyance (with silly arguments from Projos)
No just hate, your hate permeates.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 07:47:40 PM
we ignoring that they lost there in 2021?

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401263407

I don't have a dog in this fight but keep it honest
Yeah if I didn't know better I would think  it was the guy who announced for 2024, unfortunately dealt with the ahole (not Ners)
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: MU82 on November 17, 2022, 08:12:05 PM
Facepalm.  Shaka wasn't making excuses or blaming roster construction.  He simply stated a fact. The difference between those of us bullish on Shaka and the Projos is that Projos made excuses for incredibly obvious subpar coaching. 

If you think Shaka making the NCAA Year 1, and us losing at Purdue, at a venue they haven't lost in since 2019,  in a game that we led for 34 of 40 minutes, in Year 2 - commenting that young guys are in roles they've never been in - is a "problem" or parallels anything like the blame game played during the Steve Wojo years - I've got some oceanfront property to sell you in Kansas.

Context.  Context. Context.

You’re the one who keeps bringing up Wojo.

I mean do the rest of us constantly remind you that you thought Magic Dawson was going to be a star, or that you thought he was better than Andrew Rowsey?

Fact is that you and I are pretty much on the same page re Shaka. We’re both excited he’s our coach and think he’s doing a great job. I just don’t think he walks on water.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 08:14:34 PM
You’re the one who keeps bringing up Wojo.

I mean do the rest of us constantly remind you that you thought Magic Dawson was going to be a star, or that you thought he was better than Andrew Rowsey?

Fact is that you and I are pretty much on the same page re Shaka. We’re both excited he’s our coach and think he’s doing a great job. I just don’t think he walks on water.
Well he is Elon Musk the guy who has never created a thing and takes credit while just stealing companies. Just made the biggest mistake of his life.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: withoutbias on November 17, 2022, 08:22:18 PM
we ignoring that they lost there in 2021?

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/401263407

I don't have a dog in this fight but keep it honest

Doesn’t fit his agenda.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 17, 2022, 10:06:25 PM
No just hate, your hate permeates.

Lame.

Well he is Elon Musk the guy who has never created a thing and takes credit while just stealing companies. Just made the biggest mistake of his life.

Lamer.

Doesn’t fit his agenda.

Lamest.

Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Newsdreams on November 17, 2022, 10:12:09 PM
Lame.

Lamer.

Lamest.
And dumb Elon keeps on giving and just like the orange one he fails. No substance just hate. SAD, I'm done. Dunk
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 17, 2022, 10:30:40 PM
You know who doesn’t make excuses?

Rick Pitino

Except when he comes home late from Porcini’s.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 18, 2022, 04:53:36 AM
Except when he comes home late from Porcini’s.

His book is a good read, "7 Seconds of Fame".
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 18, 2022, 06:12:14 AM
Except when he comes home late from Porcini’s.

What he does with other consenting adults is his business.  Championships are forever
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 22, 2022, 01:26:56 PM
MU has now lost nine straight games away from Milwaukee. Whether it's November, February, or March, now the time is to end it before that streak hits double digits.

#COLE
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: tower912 on November 22, 2022, 01:29:51 PM
Or never leave Milwaukee.
Title: Re: True Road Games in November
Post by: wadesworld on November 22, 2022, 01:44:12 PM
MU has now lost nine straight games away from Milwaukee. Whether it's November, February, or March, now the time is to end it before that streak hits double digits.

#COLE

Defense travels.