MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on November 15, 2022, 09:27:07 PM

Title: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: tower912 on November 15, 2022, 09:27:07 PM
1.   ..... to deal with Edey.      Seriously, Oso did as well as anyone could have asked.
2.  Having somebody able to stop Smith from penetrating (tie in with Blue Pill) down the stretch would have been helpful, too. 
3.  Have to make open 3's.
4.   Does anyone wish to apologize to Joplin for what they said about him in the first half?    Holy Ghost of Vinny Johnson.   He still did some silly things after his scoring binge. 
5.  Gold shouldn't have called Edey slow.   He seemed to take special pleasure in dunking on him.
6. I feel like Painter had more options than Shaka tonight.
7.  Can't have dry spells on the road late.   
8.  It wasn't dull.    MU competed like hell.   So did Purdue.   In the end, MU continued the tradition of losing their first road game against good teams. 
9.   Learn, get better.    Alas.   
 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Its DJOver on November 15, 2022, 09:28:44 PM
First road game of the season is a loss until proven otherwise.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: wadesworld on November 15, 2022, 09:29:15 PM
Teams are going to stick to Kam and Jop like glue and beg OMax, Kolek, Stevie, Ben Gold, and Chase to score.

Stevie was not > Morsell defensively in the first game against high majors today.

Good effort.  Not enough talent on the roster to win these tough road games yet.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 15, 2022, 09:29:51 PM
Tyler Kolek was very poor down the stretch too.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Johnny B on November 15, 2022, 09:30:11 PM
despite the horrfic final stretch looked pretty good. young raw team only get better. someone else needs to step up and hit some 3s. ugh painful finish..
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 15, 2022, 09:30:21 PM
Got up and started jacking threes (blue pill:)..). That’s when Purdue went on their run.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: 🏀 on November 15, 2022, 09:30:42 PM
Lot of open looks, those will start falling later in the season.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Markusquette on November 15, 2022, 09:30:49 PM
Just came up short at the end while the big man took over. Thought that we may be able to ride Joplin's hot hand and steal a W on the road. Oh well.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: NolongerWarriors on November 15, 2022, 09:32:09 PM
Lot of open looks, those will start falling later in the season.

Why will they start falling?

Just because you want them to?
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: wadesworld on November 15, 2022, 09:33:18 PM
For the record, count me as someone who would take Edey's garbage 20 and 13 on 8/11 shooting on my team.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MUeng on November 15, 2022, 09:33:38 PM
I'm really liking this squad. No one wins at Mackey so a tough ask regardless. They played well and weren't intimidated by the crowd. Oso has come along nicely. Dare I say, most likely to play in the league?
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: muwarrior69 on November 15, 2022, 09:34:49 PM
Lot of open looks, those will start falling later in the season.

From your lips to God's ear.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: warriorstrack on November 15, 2022, 09:34:57 PM
Is the game over?
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: warriors141 on November 15, 2022, 09:35:14 PM
we have 2 streaky shooters. everyone said last year the talent needed to be upgraded. shaka didn't do that in the offseason. I really don't expect anything this season, if the team sticks together they will be good in 2 years.......hopefully
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: tower912 on November 15, 2022, 09:36:35 PM
Is the game over?

Yup.   
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: warriorstrack on November 15, 2022, 09:36:52 PM
Said like a true Badger 🦡 troll
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MUEng92 on November 15, 2022, 09:37:00 PM
“Joplin will finish with 21 points” would have been the most unbelievable thing you could have told me at halftime
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: warriorstrack on November 15, 2022, 09:37:44 PM
Yup.   

It wasn’t when I posted that, maybe wait until game is actually over, geesh
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: GB Warrior on November 15, 2022, 09:37:58 PM
Not a lot of complaints. This team might be just as good on a neutral court. If their flaw is they don't have a 7'4 monster on HGH, ok.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: wadesworld on November 15, 2022, 09:38:09 PM
It wasn’t when I posted that, maybe wait until game is actually over, geesh

The game was over.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: NolongerWarriors on November 15, 2022, 09:38:13 PM
This is obviously the kind of team Shaka wants, because it's looking to be the same talent level overall.

Maybe they can have a midseason hot streak again.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Herman Cain on November 15, 2022, 09:38:49 PM
Thought the team played well. Ran out of steam in the stretch. Hopefully the genre can lead. From the experience .

Team was well prepared for the game
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: warriorstrack on November 15, 2022, 09:39:07 PM
The game was over.

And you are???
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 15, 2022, 09:39:13 PM
we have 2 streaky shooters. everyone said last year the talent needed to be upgraded. shaka didn't do that in the offseason. I really don't expect anything this season, if the team sticks together they will be good in 2 years.......hopefully

 ::)
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Johnny B on November 15, 2022, 09:39:33 PM
why would anyone apoligize for saying jop needs to sit a for awhile in the first half? he was struggling and thats how it works. no one said bench him for the game or season. odd point idk what u expext so see in a game thread
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 15, 2022, 09:40:46 PM
why would anyone apoligize for saying jop needs to sit a for awhile in the first half? he was struggling and thats how it works. no one said bench him for the game or season. odd point idk what u expext so see in a game thread

I expect to see a fair amount of idiocy in the game thread and it rarely disappoints. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MUfan12 on November 15, 2022, 09:41:54 PM
The outside shooting is a major concern.

And they have to get OMax going or it's gonna be really tough to compete in the league.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 15, 2022, 09:42:25 PM
Best rebounding from Shaka's team in his tenure at MU?
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: warriors141 on November 15, 2022, 09:42:35 PM
I think Joplin showed he is our main guy off the bench against quality teams. We got absolutely nothing from the freshman tonight with the the exception of Gold picking up extra fouls to give Oso a breather
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: tower912 on November 15, 2022, 09:42:57 PM
why would anyone apoligize for saying jop needs to sit a for awhile in the first half? he was struggling and thats how it works. no one said bench him for the game or season. odd point idk what u expext so see in a game thread

You're right.   I should know better.    I will stay out of the game threads going forward.   
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Elonsmusk on November 15, 2022, 09:43:21 PM
Tyler Kolek was very poor down the stretch too.

Pretty sure he played all 20 in the second half and he played fine.  Kam has some really questionable early in the shot clock 26 footers.  Love Kam, but he's a better shooter in the rhythm of a possession than just launch a 26 footer Markus Howard styel.

Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: mileskishnish72 on November 15, 2022, 09:43:35 PM
Thought the team played well. Ran out of steam in the stretch. Hopefully the genre can lead. From the experience .

Team was well prepared for the game


The (often) late fade.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: HutchwasClutch on November 15, 2022, 09:44:52 PM
Shot selection is so terrible too often.  Even Raftery couldn’t put a humorous spin on Jones launching early in the shot clock with about two minutes left.  You can’t do that and expect to beat good teams. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: brewcity77 on November 15, 2022, 09:46:43 PM
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: nyg on November 15, 2022, 09:47:51 PM
I'm really liking this squad. No one wins at Mackey so a tough ask regardless. They played well and weren't intimidated by the crowd. Oso has come along nicely. Dare I say, most likely to play in the league?

OMG, another MU player to the NBA.  Just like the Omax getting drafted next year. 

Eight minutes left in game, MU up six.  Ross misses shot, offensive rebound, Ross misses again, offensive rebound, Ross misses wide open corner three.  Purdue goes down and hits a three, cutting it to three point lead.  MU deflated.

MU then scores two points, two points in the next seven minutes.  That was the game. 

If Shaka wants them to toss up threes, so be it, but Jones and Joplin are only players that have a chance.  Kudos to Joplin tonight after bad start.  Did not give up on himself.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: HutchwasClutch on November 15, 2022, 09:48:13 PM
Pretty sure he played all 20 in the second half and he played fine.  Kam has some really questionable early in the shot clock 26 footers.  Love Kam, but he's a better shooter in the rhythm of a possession than just launch a 26 footer Markus Howard styel.

Exactly. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: panda on November 15, 2022, 09:50:08 PM
  • Purdue got lucky. We were clearly the better team for 35 minutes, then they escaped.
  • Really handled Edey well. He got numbers, but considering what a mismatch he was, we did fine.
  • Kolek's rebounding has really helped mitigate the loss of Justin Lewis.
  • Maybe he's not healthy yet, but Wrightsil looks out of his depth.
  • Kam and Jop have an explosive, DJO/Jae kind of vibe. They could be a special scoring combo.
  • We need to find ways to finish, but if we do we can compete for this league in a down Big East.
  • Oso gave me a lot of hope tonight. Did fine defending Edey, and Point Oso was a clear success.
  • 20+ wins & NCAA tourney is clearly the expectation.

Purdue did not get lucky. They took advantage of our extremely poor shooting and poor shot selection down the stretch.

Overall good performance. Just need to string together forty minutes. Not a surprise we lost our composure against a good team in our first road game, playing in one of the most difficult away venues in cbb.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MuggsyB on November 15, 2022, 09:50:19 PM
why would anyone apoligize for saying jop needs to sit a for awhile in the first half? he was struggling and thats how it works. no one said bench him for the game or season. odd point idk what u expext so see in a game thread

Agreed.  It was obvious and he came back strong in the 2nd half. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: brewcity77 on November 15, 2022, 09:50:39 PM
OMG, another MU player to the NBA.  Just like the Omax getting drafted next year. 

Eight minutes left in game, MU up six.  Ross misses shot, offensive rebound, Ross misses again, offensive rebound, Ross misses wide open corner three.  Purdue goes down and hits a three, cutting it to three point lead.  MU deflated.

MU then scores two points, two points in the next seven minutes.  That was the game. 

If Shaka wants them to toss up threes, so be it, but Jones and Joplin are only players that have a chance.  Kudos to Joplin tonight after bad start.  Did not give up on himself.

They were good looks, but Chase should've followed Kolek in because he would've been able to throw down a monster dunk. That possession was a killer.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: mugrad_89 on November 15, 2022, 09:55:05 PM
  • Purdue got lucky. We were clearly the better team for 35 minutes, then they escaped.
  • Really handled Edey well. He got numbers, but considering what a mismatch he was, we did fine.
  • Kolek's rebounding has really helped mitigate the loss of Justin Lewis.
  • Maybe he's not healthy yet, but Wrightsil looks out of his depth.
  • Kam and Jop have an explosive, DJO/Jae kind of vibe. They could be a special scoring combo.
  • We need to find ways to finish, but if we do we can compete for this league in a down Big East.
  • Oso gave me a lot of hope tonight. Did fine defending Edey, and Point Oso was a clear success.
  • 20+ wins & NCAA tourney is clearly the expectation.

I feel pretty good about the team after today’s game as well.  I think they panicked down the stretch chucking up all the threes, but hopefully they will learn from this.  And OMax needs to be much better.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: AlumKCof93 on November 15, 2022, 09:55:47 PM
- Kolek and Oso are our most essential players.  Wish both were more shotmakers.
-Joplin is a shot maker but has major holes in his game
- Shooters need to remain confident but Kam needs to understand shot selection.  Too many empty possessions
- our freshman do not lack confidence.  Ross and Gold let it fly
- loved our energy and very impressed by rebounding
- Braden Smith reminded me of Kolek.  Tough, crafty players with no fear
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Boone on November 15, 2022, 09:57:54 PM
Kolek and Mitchell still can’t shoot from 3.

Wrightsil: UGH! Looks like big recruiting miss that’ll haunt us all year
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 15, 2022, 10:02:48 PM
Kolek and Mitchell still can’t shoot from 3.

Wrightsil: UGH! Looks like big recruiting miss that’ll haunt us all year

Wrightsil may end up a miss but to claim he absolutely is after 3 games and it will "haunt us all year" is pretty dumb. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: rocky_warrior on November 15, 2022, 10:03:21 PM
young raw team only get better.

You could say the same about Purdue - their guards are young and impressed me. 

Overall pleased with the game.  Shaka's teams are gonna the chuck the ball, if it goes in, great.  Only a tiny bit scared Painter gave other coaches the blueprint of going small to keep everyone connected to our guys.  But not everyone has as many good guards as Purdue.

My Purdue buddy was really impressed with Kolek.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MuggsyB on November 15, 2022, 10:08:05 PM
When 3 or 4 players on the floor cannot score beyond five feet it makes things really tough.  I saw some significant hesitancy from multiple guys.  At the end of the day it's about buckets. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Boone on November 15, 2022, 10:09:59 PM
Vander:

He’s in over his head. Should be obvious to even you
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: brewcity77 on November 15, 2022, 10:12:25 PM
Vander:

He’s in over his head. Should be obvious to even you

It's possible he's not healthy yet, and we've seen transfers get written off early before becoming major contributors (Trent Lockett), but his first couple appearances aren't encouraging.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 15, 2022, 10:19:41 PM
Vander:

He’s in over his head. Should be obvious to even you

After what we've seen over the years, writing off a transfer coming off an injury after 3 games after the coach said not to expect much early is idiotic. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MuggsyB on November 15, 2022, 10:26:21 PM
Do you guys think Purdue is much of a threat this year?   I honestly don't see it. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: BallBoy on November 15, 2022, 10:26:37 PM
I felt MU played well but had too many scoring gaps, Turnovers, and just bad shot selection. I think Chase fired up three shots on one possession where we didn’t run any offense after consecutive offensive rebounds.

To me Purdue seemed middle of the road big ten. Their offense is Edey. Don’t get me wrong that is effective but I don’t think they can win without him scoring a ton which will just get harder for him. Smith had a good second half but outside of that nothing special.

I think had MU played them later in the non-Conf MU pulls out the victory. 

Oso is looking better every year, day, and game. He played 35 minutes mostly against Edey and picked up two fouls. We needed a second big other than Gold. That was a big request of him and it showed with 4 fouls in 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Boone on November 15, 2022, 10:30:12 PM
Beating the Xmas rush. Not idiotic to note he’s criminally undersized for his position and underskilled.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: StillWarriors on November 15, 2022, 10:33:07 PM
Got up and started jacking threes (blue pill:)..). That’s when Purdue went on their run.

The back to back open corner missed 3s by Ross followed up by a Purdue 3 from the corner was the turning point.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: TVDirector on November 15, 2022, 10:34:39 PM
Ran out of gas. 
Great effort, no complaints. 
If anyone told me MU would be up most of the game and pretty late at that under these circumstances, I’d have chuckled at best. 
Smell it- taste how close- learn and move on. 
This team has promise. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: StillWarriors on November 15, 2022, 10:38:41 PM
They were good looks, but Chase should've followed Kolek in because he would've been able to throw down a monster dunk. That possession was a killer.

100%
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2022, 10:55:00 PM
  • Purdue got lucky. We were clearly the better team for 35 minutes, then they escaped.
  • Really handled Edey well. He got numbers, but considering what a mismatch he was, we did fine.
  • Kolek's rebounding has really helped mitigate the loss of Justin Lewis.
  • Maybe he's not healthy yet, but Wrightsil looks out of his depth.
  • Kam and Jop have an explosive, DJO/Jae kind of vibe. They could be a special scoring combo.
  • We need to find ways to finish, but if we do we can compete for this league in a down Big East.
  • Oso gave me a lot of hope tonight. Did fine defending Edey, and Point Oso was a clear success.
  • 20+ wins & NCAA tourney is clearly the expectation.

I don't know about Purdue getting "lucky" -- I mean, they hit their 3s down the stretch and we didn't, and they played good D most of the night -- but otherwise I agree with all of your points.

A couple more:

++ Purdue actually got back into the game and took the lead while Edey sat on the bench. It was their small lineup, which let them switch more effectively against our pick-and-roll and other stuff we were trying to do, that beat us down the stretch.

++ Not sure about the criticism Kolek has received from some. (Not you, obviously.) I thought he played his arse off, ran the offense damn well (1 TO and 11 assists in 39 minutes), made a few tough driving shots, and scrapped for rebounds to help us actually win the board battle against a team with a 7-4 center. He was credited with 0 offensive rebounds but I can remember at least 3 he kept alive that others got as we had 15 (!!!) offensive boards (to 6 for Purdue). He went 0-for-4 from 3 and that hurt, but I have no other problems with his game tonight. If every MU player had done his job as effectively as TK did his, we'd have won going away.

++ As tower said, gotta make wide-open 3s. We missed a bunch of them.

++ All in all, I'm encouraged. Narrow road loss in a very tough environment against a good (not great, but good), well-coached team -- one with a 7-4 center, some shotmakers and good defenders. My expectations have not been reduced at all after this one.

++ Oso short-armed one late (obviously worried that Edey would block another) that we really needed, and he missed a couple other push shots, but I was really impressed with his all-around game. I can see why Shaka was so high on him handling the basketball.

++ Need more from O-Max. It's not realistic to expect him to be a star, but we need more than that.

++ Got a total of 2 pts and 2 rebs from the 4 guys new to the team this season. There won't be any odes to Ross, Jones, Gold and Wrightsil after this one. (Doesn't mean some or all of them won't be real good players for us down the line.)
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 15, 2022, 10:59:58 PM
We massively outrebounded a good rebounding team.

Our best scorers are our worst defenders. For all their scoring, Jop and Kam had multiple blown assignments leading to open threes for Purdue.

Can you imagine a half when Joplin and Jones get hot at the same time?

We will not see anyone like Edey again this season. Sanogo is probably the closest and Edey has 6-7 inches on him. His presence alone alters shots at the rim.

Tip of the hat to the little pipsqueak on Purdue's roster. Edey needed a wingman and he came up in a big way. Some of those shots were garbage but he managed to flush them anyway.

Freshmen (and new to D1 transfer) looked a little shell-shocked this game. First college road games will do that to you.

For all our crowing about having a deeper roster, Shaka played 6 guys 21+ minutes, 1 guy 10 minutes, and 3 guys 5 minutes or less. Purdue had 10 guys play double digit minutes. They were fresher down the stretch and it showed.

Lots of open looks, none of them falling. I don't think that will continue all season. In their last game Purdue went 2-19 from three. A game later they are 9-27. Bad shooting nights happen.

I love what Oso has become. I was head over heels when he moved the Mountain and scored in the second half.

This loss will look good by the end of the season. Historically, Painter's teams improve as the season go on. Purdue isn't winning the Big 10 this season but they'll finish somewhere in the realm of a 5-10 seed. Road wins against tourney teams are never easy. We looked like we belonged.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2022, 11:04:35 PM
Yeah, on defense it was like Jop and Kam were on skates. Hope they gradually improve on that end. But they did combine for 15 rebounds, so that's really good, and we obviously need their offense.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 15, 2022, 11:11:37 PM
The back to back open corner missed 3s by Ross followed up by a Purdue 3 from the corner was the turning point.

Yep. Right after we had three possessions thanks to offensive rebounds. That’s when the run started.

Showed great heart that last 90 seconds.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on November 15, 2022, 11:20:43 PM
“Joplin will finish with 21 points” would have been the most unbelievable thing you could have told me at halftime

and Marquette will lose...

Even crazier
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: DoctorV on November 15, 2022, 11:21:19 PM
Yeah, on defense it was like Jop and Kam were on skates. Hope they gradually improve on that end. But they did combine for 15 rebounds, so that's really good, and we obviously need their offense.

Yup.
Jop led the team in rebounding, but I’m not sure how, and Kam was tied for second with 6 along with TyKo.

Can’t harp on any of those guys for the defensive effort and rebounding today.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on November 16, 2022, 12:11:40 AM
Not to look ahead to Monday, but Mississippi State will be our toughest test of the early season.

They have a 10 man rotation, 8 of which are Seniors. Big football-player looking team with a bunch of guys playing above the rim. They clearly have a good weights program.

They play a slower tempo but do press from time to time.  Their 2 best players are their front court duo of Tolu Smith and DJ Jeffries that combine for nearly 30 a night.

An old physical team will be a huge challenge. I think both Marquette and Mississippi State are the 2 best teams in this 4 team tournament.  Tough matchup for the Golden Eagles.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: DoctorV on November 16, 2022, 12:14:36 AM
Not to look ahead to Monday, but Mississippi State will be our toughest test of the early season.

They have a 10 man rotation, 8 of which are Seniors. Big football-player looking team with a bunch of guys playing above the rim. They clearly have a good weights program.

They play a slower tempo but do press from time to time.  Their 2 best players are their front court duo of Tolu Smith and DJ Jeffries that combine for nearly 30 a night.

An old physical team will be a huge challenge. I think both Marquette and Mississippi State are the 2 best teams in this 4 team tournament.  Tough matchup for the Golden Eagles.

Sounds like it’ll be tougher than facing Edey
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2022, 06:19:03 AM
MU lost their first road game of the year to a team that rarely loses at home.   Next.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Silent Verbal on November 16, 2022, 06:19:24 AM

Tip of the hat to the little pipsqueak on Purdue's roster. Edey needed a wingman and he came up in a big way. Some of those shots were garbage but he managed to flush them anyway.


If by “little pipsqueak” you mean Braden Smith, the guy was Indiana’s Mr. Basketball last year.  It’s not like Matt Painter threw Cam Marrotta in there. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Newsdreams on November 16, 2022, 06:20:42 AM
I don't know about Purdue getting "lucky" -- I mean, they hit their 3s down the stretch and we didn't, and they played good D most of the night -- but otherwise I agree with all of your points.

A couple more:

++ Purdue actually got back into the game and took the lead while Edey sat on the bench. It was their small lineup, which let them switch more effectively against our pick-and-roll and other stuff we were trying to do, that beat us down the stretch.[b/]

++ Not sure about the criticism Kolek has received from some. (Not you, obviously.) I thought he played his arse off, ran the offense damn well (1 TO and 11 assists in 39 minutes), made a few tough driving shots, and scrapped for rebounds to help us actually win the board battle against a team with a 7-4 center. He was credited with 0 offensive rebounds but I can remember at least 3 he kept alive that others got as we had 15 (!!!) offensive boards (to 6 for Purdue). He went 0-for-4 from 3 and that hurt, but I have no other problems with his game tonight. If every MU player had done his job as effectively as TK did his, we'd have won going away.

++ As tower said, gotta make wide-open 3s. We missed a bunch of them.

++ All in all, I'm encouraged. Narrow road loss in a very tough environment against a good (not great, but good), well-coached team -- one with a 7-4 center, some shotmakers and good defenders. My expectations have not been reduced at all after this one.

++ Oso short-armed one late (obviously worried that Edey would block another) that we really needed, and he missed a couple other push shots, but I was really impressed with his all-around game. I can see why Shaka was so high on him handling the basketball.

++ Need more from O-Max. It's not realistic to expect him to be a star, but we need more than that.

++ Got a total of 2 pts and 2 rebs from the 4 guys new to the team this season. There won't be any odes to Ross, Jones, Gold and Wrightsil after this one. (Doesn't mean some or all of them won't be real good players for us down the line.)
Exactly, Purdue didn't get "lucky". We were actually doing better with Edey in the game MU's interior D made him work hard and he looked exhausted. Painter is a hell of a coach so he adjusted, went small and ran with us, they made a run and kept it within reach. Edey came back to the game fresh and our interior D was not as quick. MU missing open 3's on final stretch, two factors, rushing 3's plus tired legs. We would be extremely better if Kolek could hit 3's at least at 30%. Kolek needs D's to really worry about him from deep.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Newsdreams on November 16, 2022, 06:22:52 AM
Pretty sure he played all 20 in the second half and he played fine.  Kam has some really questionable early in the shot clock 26 footers.  Love Kam, but he's a better shooter in the rhythm of a possession than just launch a 26 footer Markus Howard styel.
Nice to bring Howard in the conversation. Kam can do whatever he wants, Shaka loves him, too bad he is a chucker. Joplin will write a letter and transfer, book it.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: We R Final Four on November 16, 2022, 06:26:16 AM
I thought Shaka went with OMAX too long late in n the game. He eventually went back to Jop….but 3 minutes too late.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2022, 06:33:26 AM
Jop was on fire from the field.  The only one who was.   And he was rebounding.  He flat out blew several defensive assignments and looked gassed.

So, again, Shaka told us. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2022, 06:44:55 AM
If by “little pipsqueak” you mean Braden Smith, the guy was Indiana’s Mr. Basketball last year.  It’s not like Matt Painter threw Cam Marrotta in there.

Did i saw anything suggesting that? Pipsqueak is a reference to his height, he's 5'10.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MuggsyB on November 16, 2022, 06:45:28 AM
I thought Shaka went with OMAX too long late in n the game. He eventually went back to Jop….but 3 minutes too late.

I mentioned that Jopliin should have gotten back into the game sooner in the game thread.  What really worries me is that for the most part this was a game where we got quality shots and we rebounded about as well as possible. Against physical defensive teams on the perimeter we could be in a world of hurt.  It's not like we played Houston or really a great defensive team.  Personally I think Purdue is very average regardless that Mackey is a tough place to win.  They'll improve during the year but I honestly don't expect much from them this season.

And as far as this "we're a defensive team" narrative the fact is Purdue pretty much scored on every possession down the stretch.  Our press did not generate turnovers at all outside the very beginning of the game. I like that we got the tempo sped up but pressing late hurt us multiple times.  We need a balance. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2022, 06:47:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xuOVfUSfwY

Shaka's thoughts.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: BallBoy on November 16, 2022, 07:39:45 AM
Both Kam and Joplin need to figure out how to play the whole game. Kam played the 1st half and then took the second half off comparably. Joplin took the first half off but then went to work in the second half.

Kam scored 16 of his 19 in 1st half
Joplin scored his 21 in the second half. Too much hot or cold.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 16, 2022, 08:05:25 AM
Exactly, Purdue didn't get "lucky". We were actually doing better with Edey in the game MU's interior D made him work hard and he looked exhausted. Painter is a hell of a coach so he adjusted, went small and ran with us, they made a run and kept it within reach. Edey came back to the game fresh and our interior D was not as quick. MU missing open 3's on final stretch, two factors, rushing 3's plus tired legs. We would be extremely better if Kolek could hit 3's at least at 30%. Kolek needs D's to really worry about him from deep.

What you and others are saying about the switch to small ball with the Big Guy on the bench. He returned right when Purdue was shooting free throws to go up and then it was Edey time.

MU has lost 8 in a row now away from MKE. Lost three of the four factors (except OR%, who would have thought it?), but end of the day, you usually need to win eFG% on the road. In a low tempo game, you can't just forget your offense and force up shots and that was what happened in the last 5-6 minutes.

I look forward to Florida to get off the snide. I am happy with the effort but as I said preseason, it's gonna be uneven in the wins and loses until the bench catches up. COLE
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: dgies9156 on November 16, 2022, 08:34:34 AM
Team looked decent for the bulk of the game. I was impressed that they stayed as close as they did.

Nonetheless, champions win games like this. A very winnable contest that we surrendered largely due to inexperience. Things will improve.

Shaka is an incredible class act and I hope he is here and successful for years to come.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on November 16, 2022, 08:45:33 AM
Sounds like it’ll be tougher than facing Edey

I think Mississippi State is better than Purdue. Neutral court vs. Road court. Could be the difference.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Jay Bee on November 16, 2022, 08:57:46 AM
Bizarre game statistically. We were outshot 56.2% eFG to 45.1%. Rarely can that be overcome. Surprisingly, it was rebounding that helped close the gap, but we didn’t turn the ‘shaky freshmen’ and didn’t get to the line.
 
Our defensive turnover rate of 9.0% was the lowest for Shaka while at MU. At the start of the game, it looked like we may get them to cough the ball over a lot.. but, then they broke free a couple of times for easy looks and I felt like we backed off a bit.
 
1/12 3FG in the second half for non-Jop’s.
 
62.0% eFG% for Purdue in the second half. 1.39 ppp in second half. Yuck.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Milkshakes on November 16, 2022, 09:05:01 AM
I haven’t seen the game as I am away on business.  Reviewing the stat line I have to say if you had offered me that stat line before the game I’d have taken it. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 16, 2022, 09:05:18 AM
I definitely thought we backed off after Purdue got a string of easy looks.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: NCMUFan on November 16, 2022, 09:08:32 AM
Marquette got beat at their own game.  Small ball.
If we could have played Purdue's small team even, then we could of probably held them off even when they put Edey back in.
As it was, their small ball took away the lead and then with a fresh Edey going in at the end, well that was all they wrote.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2022, 09:09:58 AM
Perhaps MU just got a little tired.  Little production or minutes off the bench other than Joplin.  Purdue found energy from their crowd.   
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MuggsyB on November 16, 2022, 09:40:14 AM
Bizarre game statistically. We were outshot 56.2% eFG to 45.1%. Rarely can that be overcome. Surprisingly, it was rebounding that helped close the gap, but we didn’t turn the ‘shaky freshmen’ and didn’t get to the line.
 
Our defensive turnover rate of 9.0% was the lowest for Shaka while at MU. At the start of the game, it looked like we may get them to cough the ball over a lot.. but, then they broke free a couple of times for easy looks and I felt like we backed off a bit.
 
1/12 3FG in the second half for non-Jop’s.
 
62.0% eFG% for Purdue in the second half. 1.39 ppp in second half. Yuck.

Yuck is correct.  At the end of the day it's about buckets. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on November 16, 2022, 09:58:04 AM
Perhaps MU just got a little tired.  Little production or minutes off the bench other than Joplin.  Purdue found energy from their crowd.

I think this was it.  Too much running around and not enough stops while also only forcing 6 turnovers.

If your running and pressuring all game and only forcing 6 TOs you're in trouble.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: NCMUFan on November 16, 2022, 10:05:13 AM
All and all, it was a good competitive game.
Now MU knows what a step up in competition looks like and being on the road.
Looking forward to the newer players getting more minutes and experience.
LIU may be able to give the newer players more time on the floor.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Goose on November 16, 2022, 10:06:17 AM
It all comes down to making baskets. When we had success last year it was due to a quick start and making baskets. Time will tell if this team can shoot the ball on a more consistent basis or not, but I am not worried about them getting open looks. As has been noted in multiple threads, Kolek, Omax and others need to shoot the ball better as a whole for this team to have real success.

The D is going to be there, and I am less worried about rebounding than I was last season. I do think there is zero question that the whole team is signed on to be part of Shaka's system. If they put that energy on the D side of the ball on a regular basis they will force turnovers, IMO. If multiple guys shoot well they will have a legit chance to beat any BE team this season.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2022, 10:07:49 AM
I think this was it.  Too much running around and not enough stops while also only forcing 6 turnovers.

If your running and pressuring all game and only forcing 6 TOs you're in trouble.

Minutes distribution played into it, too.   
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2022, 10:19:31 AM
Minutes distribution played into it, too.

Yep. If we are going to play this style of basketball, then Ross, Sean, Gold, Wrightsil, and Itejere need to be good enough to combine for at least 35 minutes a game. Now those are 5 players playing in their third game of D1 basketball so I'm far from writing them off.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2022, 10:23:51 AM
Agree completely
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MuggsyB on November 16, 2022, 10:32:37 AM
it's one game but offensively we have to get more from OMax and Mitchell.  I truly think they're capable but I'd like to see them far more aggressive and less hesitant.  Because if they are playing 25 mins, and can't score in the h-c, it's a problem that's not just going to go away.  These are the two players I would like to see make a concerted effort to score in the paint or get to the FT line.    I would also use Oso more in the high and wide post.   
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: tower912 on November 16, 2022, 10:41:35 AM
Oso was moving all over the perimeter with the ball last night.     We would all like to see Stevie and Omax make more shots.    Several open corner 3's went wanting.     In regards to last night and getting to the basket, I am going to give Edey's presence most of the credit.    7'4 is not something anybody is used to.   He emphatically blocked several shots.    And he was clearly in the heads of MU several times on drives that he did not block.   
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 16, 2022, 10:45:05 AM
Oso was moving all over the perimeter with the ball last night.     We would all like to see Stevie and Omax make more shots.    Several open corner 3's went wanting.     In regards to last night and getting to the basket, I am going to give Edey's presence most of the credit.    7'4 is not something anybody is used to.   He emphatically blocked several shots.    And he was clearly in the heads of MU several times on drives that he did not block.

Soft
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: NCMUFan on November 16, 2022, 10:48:20 AM
Last 5 minutes, MU was definitely not the same team that played the previous 35 minutes.  But it happens.  The great comeback against Villanova with Reinhardt and Rowsey that year, Villanova looked the same way where they couldn't buy a basket in the last 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: We R Final Four on November 16, 2022, 11:32:08 AM
Yep. If we are going to play this style of basketball, then Ross, Sean, Gold, Wrightsil, and Itejere need to be good enough to combine for at least 35 minutes a game. Now those are 5 players playing in their third game of D1 basketball so I'm far from writing them off.
Walk on type minutes for Itejere. I wouldn’t expect any contribution more than that.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: CountryRoads on November 16, 2022, 11:35:09 AM
Realistically, I don’t think we can expect much more offensively from this group. A few of the guys will probably have a little more success at the rim when there isn’t a 7’4 center there, but I’m definitely not counting on Kolek, Omax, or Mitchell improving their outside shot much. In order to win last night, MU would have needed a little offensive boost from one of the newcomers during that second half drought when the starters were running out of gas.

I thought MU looked like the better team most of the night, which was encouraging. Would be disappointed/surprised if they aren’t a top 5 big east team this year.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2022, 12:53:52 PM
Walk on type minutes for Itejere. I wouldn’t expect any contribution more than that.

Oh I agree
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MUDPT on November 16, 2022, 01:05:33 PM
Purdue’s bench consists of a grad transfer PG, a redshirt junior (4th year in the program) and the 2021 2 best HS players in the state of Indiana. Their bench is um better to say the least.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: brewcity77 on November 16, 2022, 01:32:47 PM
I think this was it.  Too much running around and not enough stops while also only forcing 6 turnovers.

If your running and pressuring all game and only forcing 6 TOs you're in trouble.

The point of this defense and press is not to force turnovers. This is not Havoc. The press in the Violence defense is used to delay the opponents and slow them getting into their offense. We press to run the shot clock down so that by the time the opponents gets into their offense, there are only around 18 seconds left on the shot clock. It is not, and never has been, about turnovers. If Shaka wanted us to be elite at turning teams over, we would be. See his VCU teams. But we would also be among the national leaders in fouls and free throw rate against. He has said multiple times that style is no longer feasible with current rules and as such has changed the focus of our press.

The number of opportunities created was not the problem. The 15 offensive rebounds gave us more than enough extra chances, the problem was not converting those extra chances.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: wadesworld on November 16, 2022, 01:50:02 PM
The point of this defense and press is not to force turnovers. This is not Havoc. The press in the Violence defense is used to delay the opponents and slow them getting into their offense. We press to run the shot clock down so that by the time the opponents gets into their offense, there are only around 18 seconds left on the shot clock. It is not, and never has been, about turnovers. If Shaka wanted us to be elite at turning teams over, we would be. See his VCU teams. But we would also be among the national leaders in fouls and free throw rate against. He has said multiple times that style is no longer feasible with current rules and as such has changed the focus of our press.

The number of opportunities created was not the problem. The 15 offensive rebounds gave us more than enough extra chances, the problem was not converting those extra chances.

Then we need to stick with the press all game, but be less aggressive in it.  Less run and jump, less hard traps, more just make them throw it back and forth 3 times before getting it across half court and pick up your man immediately when they do, rather than run to a trap once or twice beyond half court.  If we aren't going to create turnovers with it, then we need to also not have it be so aggressive that it gives our opponent wide open threes and/or dunks at the back end.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Its DJOver on November 16, 2022, 01:59:33 PM
Think we just ran out of gas.  It showed in the 5 minute drought, but also on the defensive end giving up 26 points the last 9 minutes + change (only 4 of which were from fts when we were extending the game).
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Big Papi on November 16, 2022, 03:51:37 PM
Good game.  Too bad we ran out of gas at the end of the game.  Sign of a young team.  It will get better as roles become more defined.  Need 1 or 2 more players to step up during the course of this year.

Having said that, I don't care if he is or is not injured, Wrightsil is a big miss.  You bring in a player for one year, the expectation is that they produce and produce right away.  Even without an injury, I can't say Wrightsil was going to be an impact player.  Huge miss by Shaka.  He needed to identify and secure an impact player that would have been the one to help close games like this one out with a big win and help this young team grow.

 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 16, 2022, 04:01:02 PM
Good game.  Too bad we ran out of gas at the end of the game.  Sign of a young team.  It will get better as roles become more defined.  Need 1 or 2 more players to step up during the course of this year.

Having said that, I don't care if he is or is not injured, Wrightsil is a big miss.  You bring in a player for one year, the expectation is that they produce and produce right away.  Even without an injury, I can't say Wrightsil was going to be an impact player.  Huge miss by Shaka.  He needed to identify and secure an impact player that would have been the one to help close games like this one out with a big win and help this young team grow.

Agree with this.  Your last paragraph sums up the correct thinking behind renting a player for one year.  There is zero reason to bring in a project that is less talented than a teams current freshman.  Experienced high level talent (D1) should be a prerequisite. But we should all give Shaka the benefit of the doubt on this. Wrightsil may still work out in the end. 
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 16, 2022, 04:06:20 PM
Good game.  Too bad we ran out of gas at the end of the game.  Sign of a young team.  It will get better as roles become more defined.  Need 1 or 2 more players to step up during the course of this year.

Having said that, I don't care if he is or is not injured, Wrightsil is a big miss.  You bring in a player for one year, the expectation is that they produce and produce right away.  Even without an injury, I can't say Wrightsil was going to be an impact player.  Huge miss by Shaka.  He needed to identify and secure an impact player that would have been the one to help close games like this one out with a big win and help this young team grow.


I mean, how can you fully judge a player's success after three games  - when he is injured???  Maybe we can wait a little bit longer before we declare someone to be "a big miss."
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 16, 2022, 04:39:35 PM

I mean, how can you fully judge a player's success after three games  - when he is injured???  Maybe we can wait a little bit longer before we declare someone to be "a big miss."

You new here?
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on November 16, 2022, 05:53:13 PM
You new here?

Exactly. Better to declare someone a miss after 1-2 games.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 16, 2022, 06:09:40 PM

I mean, how can you fully judge a player's success after three games  - when he is injured???  Maybe we can wait a little bit longer before we declare someone to be "a big miss."

This. We’ve had some pretty decent transfers here in the last 15 years. Most of them were well behind the curve initially.
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on November 16, 2022, 06:33:34 PM
All the games matter, of course, but the 2 Ft. Myers games and UW-Madison are HUGE swing games for the season.

Gotta win em if we want to make it to the dance.

Mississippi State is probably the most difficult of the 3 but that crop of teams may be a group we are battling with on the bubble. Gotta separate early!
Title: Re: Needed a blue pill......
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2022, 08:41:26 PM
Need to beat a mediocre Madison team at home, obviously.