MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: rgoode57 on November 11, 2022, 07:46:49 AM
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Gold, Ross, and S. Jones all had their MU coming out party against CMU. All three played a bit against Radford and either struggled or really did not do much in that game. But, in the second game, all three of them started to get into the flow of the game and each one showed strong signs of becoming really good players.
Against Radford, Ben Gold, in the few minutes he played, showed nothing. But, last night, he rose to the occasion, looked comfortable, and had a strong game. By the end of the year, he will be a really strong player who can play both low and on the perimeter.
Chase Ross had a couple of moves that were truly impressive, was in the flow of the game, and worked hard on defense. He is going to play a lot of minutes this year.
Sean Jones worked his butt off, had a couple of lightning quick drives, and gave Kolek some much needed rest. He is definitely a keeper and will be really good when he learns how to use his quickness a little better.
It will be fun to see how the youngsters do against Purdue.
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Ross did plenty against Radford
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Not sure I’m jumping on the Ben Gold bandwagon yet.
I’m happy to drive the wagon for Chase Ross though. Dude is going to be a good one.
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Gold, Ross, and S. Jones all had their MU coming out party against CMU. All three played a bit against Radford and either struggled or really did not do much in that game. But, in the second game, all three of them started to get into the flow of the game and each one showed strong signs of becoming really good players.
Against Radford, Ben Gold, in the few minutes he played, showed nothing. But, last night, he rose to the occasion, looked comfortable, and had a strong game. By the end of the year, he will be a really strong player who can play both low and on the perimeter.
Chase Ross had a couple of moves that were truly impressive, was in the flow of the game, and worked hard on defense. He is going to play a lot of minutes this year.
Sean Jones worked his butt off, had a couple of lightning quick drives, and gave Kolek some much needed rest. He is definitely a keeper and will be really good when he learns how to use his quickness a little better.
It will be fun to see how the youngsters do against Purdue.
Nice post. This freshman class looks to be a winner, despite the angst of some MOPERS here who weren't impressed with their recruiting rankings, and lamented that Shaka hasn't gotten "Burger Boys" or Top 50 players to MU yet.
Not sure I’m jumping on the Ben Gold bandwagon yet.
I’m happy to drive the wagon for Chase Ross though. Dude is going to be a good one.
I'm definitely on the Chase Ross bandwagon. Adding both Sean and Ben to that bandwagon now too. I'd posted over the summer that Ben Gold likely would surprise people, in that he's more athletic than what you'd think. Ben has a REALLY high ceiling. Like higher than Steve Novak and Sam Hauser as he's got a lot more bounce/burst than either Sam/Steve, and my feeling is he will evolve into a very good/elite shooter during his time at MU.
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Ross did plenty against Radford
Agreed. It was a better showing for the other two by far, but Ross impressed in game 1. He's built like a senior already.
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I'd posted over the summer that Ben Gold likely would surprise people, in that he's more athletic than what you'd think. Ben has a REALLY high ceiling. Like higher than Steve Novak and Sam Hauser as he's got a lot more bounce/burst than either Sam/Steve, and my feeling is he will evolve into a very good/elite shooter during his time at MU.
Whoa there fella. It is nice Gold had a good game against a cupcake, but anointing him an NBAer seems completely Scoopish.
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A bit premature on this topic…? 😉 I’ll wait for a more significant opponent where the impact of the performance has more significance. Do we yet know who the goto is?
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A bit premature on this topic…? 😉 I’ll wait for a more significant opponent where the impact of the performance has more significance. Do we yet know who the goto is?
OsoKam Joplek
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Whoa there fella. It is nice Gold had a good game against a cupcake, but anointing him an NBAer seems completely Scoopish.
Scoop's gotta scoop..and speculate. I'm speculating to the upside on Gold. Believe he is a legit 6'10" and he did something last night athletically that Steve and Sam never did once in their college careers - take somebody off of the bounce and dunk on them.
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Scoop's gotta scoop..and speculate. I'm speculating to the upside on Gold. Believe he is a legit 6'10" and he did something last night athletically that Steve and Sam never did once in their college careers - take somebody off of the bounce and dunk on them.
I've been encouraged by what we've seen out of Gold so far.
In the first game, he didn't have many openings to try to do much offensively so he didn't force things. He looked comfortable on the court - not at all like a deer in headlights. Last night, he looked for his shot and showed some good aggressiveness. And that driving dunk brought me out of my chair.
Looks like an above-average athlete with a good sense of the game.
As for how good he'll be ... as with all stuff like this, I'll go with "We'll see."
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The freshmen looked fine last night. Against Central Michigan. All I want is for them to work hard and improve. I do not expect them to be as successful against a Purdue or Creighton or Baylor. Great if they do. A benefit to MU if they do.
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I think the background at the Al works for us, play all games there. FIFO background, bad.
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I think the background at the Al works for us, play all games there. FIFO background, bad.
Except on free throws
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No doubt that playing at the AL made the freshmen more comfortable since they are used to it. (Also seemed to work for Joplin.) And I will not be surprised if they falter a bit at Purdue - both because of the better competition and the hostile environment. But, that's part of the growth curve. Central Michigan may not be the best team in the country, but they all showed improvement from the first game and showed what they can become. That's enough for now.
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Really liked the atmosphere for the game last night. Was a fun one to watch.
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I'm holding judgment until further into the season. This team has a lot to like but it also has a lot to learn.
Two things that came out of our first two games were inconsistency and mental lapses. The former was evident when Marquette almost let CMU back into the game in the first half and actually let Radford back into the game. Sloppy shot selection, exhaustion and bad judgement appeared too often. Last night in the second half, when Marquette went down the floor and attempted four three pointers in a row, none of which scored, I really thought they were exhausted and were putting up long-range shots rather than driving the middle and staying in the offense. Joplin got a little long-shot happy at one point as well.
It's fine to do this against CMU. They're not very good. But if this happens against Purdue, Mississippi or Wisconsin, we lose.
The mental lapses came when they tried to do too much -- passing before they peeked at the folks they were passing to. While the turnovers were down from Radford, they were still high and were still caused by not thinking something through. The turnover is the basketball equivalent of Brett Favre trying to force a football into a pinhole in a defense.
I was screaming at my TV over the missed free throws.
The good news is they won, though neither game will count for much when NCAA time comes along. The team plays well together and functions well as a unit. I sometimes think Tyler Kolek may pass too much. I see a lot of great things in the way Coach Smart coaches this team and it's apparent the team is reacting in a way they didn't under his predecessor. Our defense has been impressive as well, especially given how small we are.
Our team has a lot going for it. Here's hoping they can live up to OUR expectations! ;D
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I'm holding judgment until further into the season. This team has a lot to like but it also has a lot to learn.
Two things that came out of our first two games were inconsistency and mental lapses. The former was evident when Marquette almost let CMU back into the game in the first half and actually let Radford back into the game. Sloppy shot selection, exhaustion and bad judgement appeared too often. Last night in the second half, when Marquette went down the floor and attempted four three pointers in a row, none of which scored, I really thought they were exhausted and were putting up long-range shots rather than driving the middle and staying in the offense. Joplin got a little long-shot happy at one point as well.
It's fine to do this against CMU. They're not very good. But if this happens against Purdue, Mississippi or Wisconsin, we lose.
The mental lapses came when they tried to do too much -- passing before they peeked at the folks they were passing to. While the turnovers were down from Radford, they were still high and were still caused by not thinking something through. The turnover is the basketball equivalent of Brett Favre trying to force a football into a pinhole in a defense.
I was screaming at my TV over the missed free throws.
The good news is they won, though neither game will count for much when NCAA time comes along. The team plays well together and functions well as a unit. I sometimes think Tyler Kolek may pass too much. I see a lot of great things in the way Coach Smart coaches this team and it's apparent the team is reacting in a way they didn't under his predecessor. Our defense has been impressive as well, especially given how small we are.
Our team has a lot going for it. Here's hoping they can live up to OUR expectations! ;D
MU do anything well? YADI withdrawal I suspect.
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So glad I don’t waste time crying over FTs!!
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Us, too!
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Except on free throws
True but FTs no matta
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MU do anything well? YADI withdrawal I suspect.
Let him mope Doc
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If we can get 8 Matt-Heldtish minutes out of Gold in BE play this year I'll be happy. That might be enough to dance.
If he becomes a legit 15-20 minute 5 option we're going to blow away folks' expectations.
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The good news is they won, though neither game will count for much when NCAA time comes along. The team plays well together and functions well as a unit. I sometimes think Tyler Kolek may pass too much. I see a lot of great things in the way Coach Smart coaches this team and it's apparent the team is reacting in a way they didn't under his predecessor. Our defense has been impressive as well, especially given how small we are.
Our team has a lot going for it. Here's hoping they can live up to OUR expectations! ;D
The bolded is the bottom line for me. It was a really fun game and it was easy to overlook the team's umm..."shortcomings".
I really wish we had one more cupcake before heading to Lafayette. Although CM is just a cupcake, we saw some great moves by our guys that gave me high hopes for our future..
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If we can get 8 Matt-Heldtish minutes out of Gold in BE play this year I'll be happy. That might be enough to dance.
If he becomes a legit 15-20 minute 5 option we're going to blow away folks' expectations.
Agreed.
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Nice post. This freshman class looks to be a winner, despite the angst of some MOPERS here who weren't impressed with their recruiting rankings, and lamented that Shaka hasn't gotten "Burger Boys" or Top 50 players to MU yet.
I'm definitely on the Chase Ross bandwagon. Adding both Sean and Ben to that bandwagon now too. I'd posted over the summer that Ben Gold likely would surprise people, in that he's more athletic than what you'd think. Ben has a REALLY high ceiling. Like higher than Steve Novak and Sam Hauser as he's got a lot more bounce/burst than either Sam/Steve, and my feeling is he will evolve into a very good/elite shooter during his time at MU.
Higher ceiling than Novak?
Would be nice, but he would need to make the NBA and play 5 or more years. So pump the brakes for a while
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At the end of the first game Gold was playing center. The last game he played some center. I was told by someone here he could not play center. Maybe it was the same person who claimed Ross would redshirt.
I see Gold becoming the main back up at center. Both Oso and Gold will force the other teams center to try to come out and cover them.
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Higher ceiling than Novak?
Would be nice, but he would need to make the NBA and play 5 or more years. So pump the brakes for a while
Nah, I agree 100% with that take. Novak was one of the best shooters I've ever seen, but he never had the athleticism to do what Gold can do. Doesn't mean Gold will get there, he has to develop the jumper and maintain the athleticism while filling out, but his best case scenario is better than what Steve accomplished.
For comparison, Henry Ellenson also had a higher ceiling than Novak. But he never came close to reaching the ceiling and thus will never be remembered the way Steve is. Ultimately, Steve was the better player, but as 18/19-year-old prospects, Ellenson (and Gold) are higher ceiling guys.
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Nah, I agree 100% with that take. Novak was one of the best shooters I've ever seen, but he never had the athleticism to do what Gold can do. Doesn't mean Gold will get there, he has to develop the jumper and maintain the athleticism while filling out, but his best case scenario is better than what Steve accomplished.
For comparison, Henry Ellenson also had a higher ceiling than Novak. But he never came close to reaching the ceiling and thus will never be remembered the way Steve is. Ultimately, Steve was the better player, but as 18/19-year-old prospects, Ellenson (and Gold) are higher ceiling guys.
And because they’re all white, very similar
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At the end of the first game Gold was playing center. The last game he played some center. I was told by someone here he could not play center. Maybe it was the same person who claimed Ross would redshirt.
I see Gold becoming the main back up at center. Both Oso and Gold will force the other teams center to try to come out and cover them.
Gold can hit 3s, and if he hits them at a decent clip, you're right that the opponent won't be able to ignore him.
However, so far in Oso's Marquette career, the outer edge of his shooting range has been about 5 feet. If I were coaching against MU, I wouldn't have my center defend him on the perimeter. I'd tell my guy: "Number 13 can dribble all he wants 15-30 feet from the hoop. If he shoots from out there, he's doing us a favor."
As a HS senior, Oso did go 13-50 (26%) from 3, but he's yet to take a 3 at Marquette. In fact, I don't remember him ever once shooting beyond 10 feet (if he has, I missed it). He's only 1/7 on FTs this year after hitting 74% last season.
Oso's one of my favorite MU players, and I love how much better he's gotten. But he's simply not a threat from outside.
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And because they’re all white, very similar
VBMG had the best "flashes of" comp with Dawson Garcia. Gold might not be as far along as where DG was when he arrived, but similar bodies, athleticism, and inside/out ability.
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At the end of the first game Gold was playing center. The last game he played some center. I was told by someone here he could not play center. Maybe it was the same person who claimed Ross would redshirt.
I doubt anyone told you that Gold couldn't play center. I think what people actually told you was that he has the skillset of a 4, possibly even a 3. That doesn't mean that he can't play center.
Honestly, Shaka's offense this season doesn't really feature a true center. He's playing three guards and two forwards and both forwards can either stretch the floor, playmake, ore both. I think Gold will always guard the opposing team's center when he's on the floor.
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Gold can hit 3s, and if he hits them at a decent clip, you're right that the opponent won't be able to ignore him.
However, so far in Oso's Marquette career, the outer edge of his shooting range has been about 5 feet. If I were coaching against MU, I wouldn't have my center defend him on the perimeter. I'd tell my guy: "Number 13 can dribble all he wants 15-30 feet from the hoop. If he shoots from out there, he's doing us a favor."
As a HS senior, Oso did go 13-50 (26%) from 3, but he's yet to take a 3 at Marquette. In fact, I don't remember him ever once shooting beyond 10 feet (if he has, I missed it). He's only 1/7 on FTs this year after hitting 74% last season.
Oso's one of my favorite MU players, and I love how much better he's gotten. But he's simply not a threat from outside.
If Nevada Smith is such a guru on shooting why has not worked with Oso. I can not believe a 20 year old in the AAU era of playing year around, he shows no ability to shoot a 15 footer, hard to believe. Secondly if he played a wing in high school and could not shoot, why recruit a player like that?
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VBMG had the best "flashes of" comp with Dawson Garcia. Gold might not be as far along as where DG was when he arrived, but similar bodies, athleticism, and inside/out ability.
Idk about athleticism. From what I remember Dawson at times looked like he couldn't jump over a phone book. Gold seems to have much more athleticism, maybe not as advanced as Garcia was when he got here but I'd say has more coordination and athleticism.
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If Nevada Smith is such a guru on shooting why has not worked with Oso. I can not believe a 20 year old in the AAU era of playing year around, he shows no ability to shoot a 15 footer, hard to believe. Secondly if he played a wing in high school and could not shoot, why recruit a player like that?
Is this serious?
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Gold can hit 3s, and if he hits them at a decent clip, you're right that the opponent won't be able to ignore him.
However, so far in Oso's Marquette career, the outer edge of his shooting range has been about 5 feet. If I were coaching against MU, I wouldn't have my center defend him on the perimeter. I'd tell my guy: "Number 13 can dribble all he wants 15-30 feet from the hoop. If he shoots from out there, he's doing us a favor."
As a HS senior, Oso did go 13-50 (26%) from 3, but he's yet to take a 3 at Marquette. In fact, I don't remember him ever once shooting beyond 10 feet (if he has, I missed it). He's only 1/7 on FTs this year after hitting 74% last season.
Oso's one of my favorite MU players, and I love how much better he's gotten. But he's simply not a threat from outside.
Yes because with early career giannis you should let him get a head start running towards the basket. That is how you defend a big who can dribble.
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If Nevada Smith is such a guru on shooting why has not worked with Oso. I can not believe a 20 year old in the AAU era of playing year around, he shows no ability to shoot a 15 footer, hard to believe. Secondly if he played a wing in high school and could not shoot, why recruit a player like that?
This would be a good time to note, Oso was the second best player on our team last year in RAPM and is by far the best player on this years team two games into the season.
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This would be a good time to note, Oso was the second best player on our team last year in RAPM and is by far the best player on this years team two games into the season.
I am in agreement Oso is a player, but how good a player would he be if he had an outside game.
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If Nevada Smith is such a guru on shooting why has not worked with Oso. I can not believe a 20 year old in the AAU era of playing year around, he shows no ability to shoot a 15 footer, hard to believe. Secondly if he played a wing in high school and could not shoot, why recruit a player like that?
Giannis, Shaq, etc...
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Giannis, Shaq, etc...
Yes he is a lot like them, really
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Yes he is a lot like them, really
Yeah...shooting coaches that work with them suck as well. I mean Giannis grew up playing overseas and can't shoot. What the hell...has he ever had a coach...all overseas bigs can shoot.
In sincerity...I'm appreciative as to what Nevada has done for MU...don't understand why you feel the need to call him out.
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Yeah...shooting coaches that work with them suck as well. I mean Giannis grew up playing overseas and can't shoot. What the hell...has he ever had a coach...all overseas bigs can shoot.
In sincerity...I'm appreciative as to what Nevada has done for MU...don't understand why you feel the need to call him out.
He is shooting genius, maybe the problem is Oso having no ability. You do not think in this era that kids do not shoot 3’s growing up? Even my 4th grade grandson made 2 3’s last game. All the kids want to Jack up 3’s! Mostly Bad.
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If Nevada Smith is such a guru on shooting why has not worked with Oso. I can not believe a 20 year old in the AAU era of playing year around, he shows no ability to shoot a 15 footer, hard to believe. Secondly if he played a wing in high school and could not shoot, why recruit a player like that?
Maybe Oso has a lot of ability, but making perimeter shots is not among his skills. Maybe he can do some things that other players can’t, and other players can do some things that he can’t. Maybe every player isn’t gifted enough to excel at every single thing.
Who is the best coach in college basketball? Well, if he’s so good, why doesn’t he win the national championship every season?
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And because they’re all white, very similar
Put Novak, Ellenson and Gold in a blender and..........
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yBMmbXgv7tc/mqdefault.jpg)
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Put Novak, Ellenson and Gold in a blender and..........
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/yBMmbXgv7tc/mqdefault.jpg)
Two Ellensons and two Hausers.
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VBMG had the best "flashes of" comp with Dawson Garcia. Gold might not be as far along as where DG was when he arrived, but similar bodies, athleticism, and inside/out ability.
Christian Laettner, Joel Embid and Harry Froling in a blender…
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Two Ellensons and two Hausers.
If VSS ever once had a move like Gold’s baseline drive from the other night, some Scoopers woulda built a shrine to him.
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They already have.
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Gold can hit 3s, and if he hits them at a decent clip, you're right that the opponent won't be able to ignore him.
However, so far in Oso's Marquette career, the outer edge of his shooting range has been about 5 feet. If I were coaching against MU, I wouldn't have my center defend him on the perimeter. I'd tell my guy: "Number 13 can dribble all he wants 15-30 feet from the hoop. If he shoots from out there, he's doing us a favor."
As a HS senior, Oso did go 13-50 (26%) from 3, but he's yet to take a 3 at Marquette. In fact, I don't remember him ever once shooting beyond 10 feet (if he has, I missed it). He's only 1/7 on FTs this year after hitting 74% last season.
Oso's one of my favorite MU players, and I love how much better he's gotten. But he's simply not a threat from outside.
I realize that Oso has shown no outside shot. The opposing Center does not have to come out far to get beat by Kolek dumping the ball off to Oso. Oso can also pass. Your point is correct the other center should just stay camp under the basket. I think that is where centers should stay. I never liked the idea of Buzz having Otule chase players all over the court. That is how Otule hurt his knee. I think we were 7-0 when Otule slipped on the logo and hurt his knee.
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He is shooting genius, maybe the problem is Oso having no ability. You do not think in this era that kids do not shoot 3’s growing up? Even my 4th grade grandson made 2 3’s last game. All the kids want to Jack up 3’s! Mostly Bad.
Agreed...he is what he is...but I'd use a scholarship on him any day...and allowing him to get a clear path heading downhill should be a problem. I think you have to pick him up at or near the 3pt line and body him away from the rim.
I'd gladly take a big who can board, block shots, has muscle, and can hit from outside...Henry lasted a year at MU and I think he hit 2 of those qualifiers.