MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 1SE on November 07, 2022, 07:03:47 AM
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Alright boys and girls, with tip-off hours away what does MU need to accomplish in year 2 of the Shaka era for you to stay on board? 5 years to judge? First NCAA win in a gazillion years? Unquantifiable "Progress and Process"? Place your marker.
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Will the retain and develop model work? If the team has roughly the same success as last season WITHOUT the flashy transfer in, I will view it as a success. Because there are a lot of minutes and points to replace. If that is accomplished by development of returnees along with successful integration of non one-and-done recruits, that will be more than adequate proof of concept.
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For me, last season it was much more straightforward to project the roster. Lewis was prime for a breakout, Morsell was dying for a different role outside of Maryland which he was more than prepared for and Kuath was a rock in the paint. With those three leading the charge, I confidently said we’d make the tournament.
This year many more question marks. The ceiling of this team is much higher than last year, but the floor is much lower. We need some big jumps from guys who haven’t necessarily proved themselves in go to guy roles yet.
All of the consensus expected go to guys this season (Jones/Joplin/Oso) never have been big time minutes guys in college yet.
Omax and TK started last year and were inconsistent.
Can omax be a 30 minute per game stat stuffer while leading the spear of the press ? Can TK prove to be a competent scorer with the ball in his hands ? Will Kam Jones expand his game beyond three point shooting and become more rugged/direct in the paint/around the basket ? Will Oso be able to bulk up inside and not get pushed around ? Will Joplin realize his scoring potential ? What can Stevie bring consistently on the offensive end ?
So many guys haven’t proven they can play the part yet at this level which is why I voted 500 and nit. Next season will be the big one if we can keep the core together.
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One could even call this Shaka's 2nd Test. 8-)
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Will the retain and develop model work? If the team has roughly the same success as last season WITHOUT the flashy transfer in, I will view it as a success. Because there are a lot of minutes and points to replace. If that is accomplished by development of returnees along with successful integration of non one-and-done recruits, that will be more than adequate proof of concept.
Agreed.
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I am going with my prediction from last year, safely in NCAA by end of February. Top five in BE and one win NCAA win or better.
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Well said Panda. But like Tower I would like a little more proof of concept this year and somehow squeak into the NCAA tournament. If we go NIT this year I would not be a sky is falling person if the team finishes strong and is on some type of roll at the end of the year.
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If you don't think this team will dance, it's because you don't realize how F*ck'n good Tyler Kolek is.
Buckle up.
Playing on Friday at MSG
Playing for a trip to the S16
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If you don't think this team will dance, it's because you don't realize how F*ck'n good Tyler Kolek is.
Buckle up.
Playing on Friday at MSG
Playing for a a trip to the S16
Love it Lens! I hope you and Goose are right on the money. I can definitely see it if everything comes together. The potential ceiling is very high for this team.
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Well said Panda. But like Tower I would like a little more proof of concept this year and somehow squeak into the NCAA tournament. If we go NIT this year I would not be a sky is falling person if the team finishes strong and is on some type of roll at the end of the year.
I think Panda and I are seeing it in similar ways, if expressing it slightly differently.
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I think Panda and I are seeing it in similar ways, if expressing it slightly differently.
Agree - year two of the Shaka era without taking a single d1 transfer will be a bumpy road, especially early given our challenging non con. I expect to see a nice upswing come conference season as guys adjust to larger roles but we may get in too much trouble early to dig ourselves out and make the ncaas.
Will be a fun season and hopefully exceeding my expectations given my hopeful massive Joplin boost ;-)
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If you don't think this team will dance, it's because you don't realize how F*ck'n good Tyler Kolek is.
Buckle up.
Playing on Friday at MSG
Playing for a a trip to the S16
Whoa Lens, starting with the hard stuff pretty early. I don't think I started drinking this early since I was a student. What are you having?
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I am going with my prediction from last year, safely in NCAA by end of February. Top five in BE and one win NCAA win or better.
I haven't made my official prediction yet ... so now's as good a time as any.
You and I are on a similar page, Goose. I'll say 18-20 wins and an NCAA bid. Main hope is that we're actually playing well in February and March so that maybe we can make some noise in the tourney.
I actually feel better going into this season than last. I've seen that Shaka and his assistants can develop talent, I really like the dimension that Sean Jones can bring, and I look for big improvement from several of our guys.
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I'm looking for a major decline in the number of times per game I scream "WTF"?
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The Lens
Actually, my post earlier is my expectations, not a prediction. I think this team is going to better than last year and also think Kolek is the real deal. There is not a guy on the team that I am not excited to see play this season and expectations are high.
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What is a Ya-ka? Someone who believes that Shaka is all that and a bag of chips? Someone who doesn't think Shaka should be fired on the spot? Something inbetween?
For Shaka's seat to get colder (and to be clear, it's already ice cold): 6-seed or higher or Sweet 16 appearance or Big East Tournament Champions
For Shaka's seat to stay the same temp: NCAA bid
For Shaka's seat to get warmer: NIT or lower
For Shaka to get fired: Winning 7 games or less (assuming not due to uncontrollable circumstance, e.g. multiple injured starters)
I'm feeling 7-9 seed for this team.
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18-13.
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This is a second weekend team. It’s gonna be a fun season
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What is a Ya-ka? Someone who believes that Shaka is all that and a bag of chips? Someone who doesn't think Shaka should be fired on the spot? Something inbetween?
For Shaka's seat to get colder: 6-seed or higher or Sweet 16 appearance or Big East Tournament Champions
For Shaka's seat to stay the same temp: NCAA bid
For Shaka's seat to get warmer: NIT or lower
For Shaka to get fired: Winning 7 games or less
I'm feeling 7-9 seed for this team.
Bring Rick Pitino to Milwaukee
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Bring Rick Pitino to Milwaukee
Which Italian restaurant?
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I wish I was as optimistic as most of you on here.
I think this is going to be a rough year with no post season. I don't think MU upgraded their roster like most other Big East teams did and our non-conference is not a cakewalk.
I'll root hard each game but not expecting much this year.
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I wish I was as optimistic as most of you on here.
I think this is going to be a rough year with no post season. I don't think MU upgraded their roster like most other Big East teams did and our non-conference is not a cakewalk.
I'll root hard each game but not expecting much this year.
Not even NIT?
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Which Italian restaurant?
Gloriholiso's Italian Market
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My range of expectations are .500 on the low end to win an NCAA tourney game on the high end.
Next year, I will have higher expectations. This year is about finding a core of 5-7 players that becomes a top 25 team next year.
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Actually, my post earlier is my expectations, not a prediction. I think this team is going to better than last year and also think Kolek is the real deal. There is not a guy on the team that I am not excited to see play this season and expectations are high.
I mean, you used the word "prediction" right in your post.
What's the difference between your "expectations" and your "prediction," Goose? And if there is a difference, what's your prediction?
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Not even NIT?
Yeah, I think we'll miss the NIT too.
I really hope I am wrong.
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I hope those Arby voters are Packer fans as well, let this be their season of misery all the way to ELEVEN :P
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Let’s keep this one simple
Win a damn NCAA tournament game.
Do that, and every Marquette fan is back on board.
Short of that, although we may see some nice improvements and brightened future hopes, it’s all nothing but hope.
Results wise, only thing that would be “consolation” to yet again not winning a game in the dance would be finishing top 3 in the BE or making the conference tourney Final.
Still just a consolation though.
I get it, the regular season and the entire body of work is more important for us die hards, but that’s all futile if you cannot win a game in the big dance.
So let’s just win a damn game in the big dance.
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Let’s keep this one simple
Win a damn NCAA tournament game.
Do that, and every Marquette fan is back on board.
Short of that, although we may see some nice improvements and brightened future hopes, it’s all nothing but hope.
Results wise, only thing that would be “consolation” to yet again not winning a game in the dance would be finishing top 3 in the BE or making the conference tourney Final.
Still just a consolation though.
I get it, the regular season and the entire body of work is more important for us die hards, but that’s all futile if you cannot win a game in the big dance.
So let’s just win a damn game in the big dance.
That would be nice Doctor V. Relevance on the big stage is what we all want. Hope the the most optimistic of scoopers are dead on with their predictions.
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Doctor
I agree with your post. My biggest disappointment last season was the loss of positive energy due to the late slide and blowout to NC. Casual fans were excited about the program and a lot of that juice was lost. This is a big season for winning the students and the casual fans and I have my fingers crossed.
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If we are in the dance...I'm extremely confident Shaka is the guy. If we don't make the dance...we need to get a NCAA win or win the BEAST in 2024 to make me feel good about Shaka.
That said...I'm a huge Shaka fan...I think this team surprises those that picked them 9th in the BEAST...and I think Kam has a big year to get us dancing.
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I think we're dancing come season end. I agree with the high ceiling and low floor sentiments, but I trust shaka to keep us towards our ceiling. the culture seems to be there, as well as buy-in from the roster. barring injury or the like, I think shaka will be able to get this group to play greater than the sum of it's parts.
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Doctor
I agree with your post. My biggest disappointment last season was the loss of positive energy due to the late slide and blowout to NC. Casual fans were excited about the program and a lot of that juice was lost. This is a big season for winning the students and the casual fans and I have my fingers crossed.
...and a 76 year old alum like me. I am in reasonably good health, but I can't wait 2 or more seasons just to see the program heading in the right direction.
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My biggest disappointment last season was the loss of positive energy due to the late slide and blowout to NC. Casual fans were excited about the program and a lot of that juice was lost. This is a big season for winning the students and the casual fans and I have my fingers crossed.
We don't need fingers crossed, Goose. We have Shaka!
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I think we're dancing come season end. I agree with the high ceiling and low floor sentiments, but I trust shaka to keep us towards our ceiling. the culture seems to be there, as well as buy-in from the roster. barring injury or the like, I think shaka will be able to get this group to play greater than the sum of it's parts.
Culture & violence!
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I’ll be good if they win more than 18 games. If they win more than 20 I’m very happy.
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I’ll be good if they win more than 18 games. If they win more than 20 I’m very happy.
Whoops. I’ll be good if they win more than 17.
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I am going with my prediction from last year, safely in NCAA by end of February. Top five in BE and one win NCAA win or better.
Are you talking about this year’s Marquette team?
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I’d really like to see our squad have a winning record the month of February. I hate to bring up the “Feb Fade” the first night of the season, but it killed Wojo AND Shaka in year 1. This years team is young and I hope to see development as the season unfolds.
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Porter Moser and Oklahoma just lost on a buzzer beater to Sam Houston State with about 2,000 people in attendance.
Since people seem to like to compare.
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Porter Moser and Oklahoma just lost on a buzzer beater to Sam Houston State with about 2,000 people in attendance.
Since people seem to like to compare.
Get it right. It's The Great Porter Moser.
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...and a 76 year old alum like me. I am in reasonably good health, but I can't wait 2 or more seasons just to see the program heading in the right direction.
So leave now and spend your time elsewhere rather than whining and inviting people to your non-stop Pity Party. I graduated from Marquette one year after you but that is the end of any similarities. I get that Shaka is building a system and that often takes at least 3 years, often more. You are totally wrapped up in your sense of entitlement. "Can't wait 2 or more seasons", huh? Poor Baby.
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So leave now and spend your time elsewhere rather than whining and inviting people to your non-stop Pity Party. I graduated from Marquette one year after you but that is the end of any similarities. I get that Shaka is building a system and that often takes at least 3 years, often more. You are totally wrapped up in your sense of entitlement. "Can't wait 2 or more seasons", huh? Poor Baby.
Let us elders mope.
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So leave now and spend your time elsewhere rather than whining and inviting people to your non-stop Pity Party. I graduated from Marquette one year after you but that is the end of any similarities. I get that Shaka is building a system and that often takes at least 3 years, often more. You are totally wrapped up in your sense of entitlement. "Can't wait 2 or more seasons", huh? Poor Baby.
If we win an NCAA game this spring, it will be the first in 10 years. Our record in the BET is nothing to shout about. DePaul, Butler and Marquette are the only teams to not make the finals. Last season the coach's picked us 9th. We played really well the first half of the season and then played like that 9th place team at the end of the season. Those on the outside looking in are not impressed about our recruits and returning players compared to other Big East Teams and picked us 9th again. I'm not a stat guy but even the early KenPom ranking does not portend well for Marquette. I'm bothered by these facts just as much as anyone here should be, and rightfully so. I just don't see the Marquette ship heading in the right direction yet.
If being competitive and winning is a sense of entitlement, I'm guilty. I want the team to win as much as anyone here. I am not asking you to leave because you have a rosier outlook of the team than I have. I try very hard not to resort to ad hominem remarks if someone here has a different viewpoint than me.
I think I'll stick around.
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If we win an NCAA game this spring, it will be the first in 10 years. Our record in the BET is nothing to shout about. DePaul, Butler and Marquette are the only teams to not make the finals. Last season the coach's picked us 9th. We played really well the first half of the season and then played like that 9th place team at the end of the season. Those on the outside looking in are not impressed about our recruits and returning players compared to other Big East Teams and picked us 9th again. I'm not a stat guy but even the early KenPom ranking does not portend well for Marquette. I'm bothered by these facts just as much as anyone here should be, and rightfully so. I just don't see the Marquette ship heading in the right direction yet.
If being competitive and winning is a sense of entitlement, I'm guilty. I want the team to win as much as anyone here. I am not asking you to leave because you have a rosier outlook of the team than I have. I try very hard not to resort to ad hominem remarks if someone here has a different viewpoint than me.
I think I'll stick around.
You just love those 9th place predictions, don't you? We finished 6th, but let's focus on last year's BE coaches' preseason poll that had us at 9th instead. ;D Oh. and let's not forget that you wrote that you would not have been surprised if we were picked to finish in last place. There are legitimate concerns about this year's team but there are also reasons for hope. You might want to look at those just for a change of pace.
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If we win an NCAA game this spring, it will be the first in 10 years. Our record in the BET is nothing to shout about. DePaul, Butler and Marquette are the only teams to not make the finals. Last season the coach's picked us 9th. We played really well the first half of the season and then played like that 9th place team at the end of the season. Those on the outside looking in are not impressed about our recruits and returning players compared to other Big East Teams and picked us 9th again. I'm not a stat guy but even the early KenPom ranking does not portend well for Marquette. I'm bothered by these facts just as much as anyone here should be, and rightfully so. I just don't see the Marquette ship heading in the right direction yet.
If being competitive and winning is a sense of entitlement, I'm guilty. I want the team to win as much as anyone here. I am not asking you to leave because you have a rosier outlook of the team than I have. I try very hard not to resort to ad hominem remarks if someone here has a different viewpoint than me.
I think I'll stick around.
I think there’s a significantly different trajectory with Shaka as the coach opposed to Wojo. Don’t lump the tenures together.
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If we win an NCAA game this spring, it will be the first in 10 years. Our record in the BET is nothing to shout about. DePaul, Butler and Marquette are the only teams to not make the finals. Last season the coach's picked us 9th. We played really well the first half of the season and then played like that 9th place team at the end of the season. Those on the outside looking in are not impressed about our recruits and returning players compared to other Big East Teams and picked us 9th again. I'm not a stat guy but even the early KenPom ranking does not portend well for Marquette. I'm bothered by these facts just as much as anyone here should be, and rightfully so. I just don't see the Marquette ship heading in the right direction yet.
If being competitive and winning is a sense of entitlement, I'm guilty. I want the team to win as much as anyone here. I am not asking you to leave because you have a rosier outlook of the team than I have. I try very hard not to resort to ad hominem remarks if someone here has a different viewpoint than me.
I think I'll stick around.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/480490796521492480/bZUrXTxi_400x400.png)
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If we win an NCAA game this spring, it will be the first in 10 years. Our record in the BET is nothing to shout about. DePaul, Butler and Marquette are the only teams to not make the finals. Last season the coach's picked us 9th. We played really well the first half of the season and then played like that 9th place team at the end of the season. Those on the outside looking in are not impressed about our recruits and returning players compared to other Big East Teams and picked us 9th again. I'm not a stat guy but even the early KenPom ranking does not portend well for Marquette. I'm bothered by these facts just as much as anyone here should be, and rightfully so. I just don't see the Marquette ship heading in the right direction yet.
If being competitive and winning is a sense of entitlement, I'm guilty. I want the team to win as much as anyone here. I am not asking you to leave because you have a rosier outlook of the team than I have. I try very hard not to resort to ad hominem remarks if someone here has a different viewpoint than me.
I think I'll stick around.
Mope away
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Almost 2/3rds thinking we need to be dancing. Get it done Shaka.
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I think there’s a significantly different trajectory with Shaka as the coach opposed to Wojo. Don’t lump the tenures together.
I hope you are right, but the jury is still out on that one. No one will be happier than me to see the program heading in the right direction.
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I hope you are right, but the jury is still out on that one. No one will be happier than me to see the program heading in the right direction.
You should listen to all of Shaka's interviews/press conferences. Then go back and listen to some of Wojo's. If the difference in the "this guy has it" quotient isn't clear to you, well, don't know what to tell you. Panda hit it right on the head with his post:
I think there’s a significantly different trajectory with Shaka as the coach opposed to Wojo. Don’t lump the tenures together.
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At the very least, there's a plan and identity he's trying to build. Wojo scrambled when the Duke model didn't work here.
Will it work? I sure as hell hope so. I do think he needs to find more physicality in the frontcourt for it to really take off.
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At the very least, there's a plan and identity he's trying to build. Wojo scrambled when the Duke model didn't work here.
Will it work? I sure as hell hope so. I do think he needs to find more physicality in the frontcourt for it to really take off.
I do like the recruit and retain model he has in place IF players stay which by all accounts they did at VCU/Texas and so far here as well. BUT, if we want to compete year in/year out, we need to get some front court portal wins, bringing in big guys. The bigs were recruiting will take a couple years to develop and I believe we’ll have more success long term finding a manny bates or Warren Washington type in the portal.
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The idea that you can turn on some press conference and determine if a coach has "it" or not is so, so funny.
Go listen to a Bill Bellichick or Coach K interview. Some of the greatest coaches to ever coach sports.
Then there are tons of coaches with charisma who stink at coaching.
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I do like the recruit and retain model he has in place IF players stay which by all accounts they did at VCU/Texas and so far here as well. BUT, if we want to compete year in/year out, we need to get some front court portal wins, bringing in big guys. The bigs were recruiting will take a couple years to develop and I believe we’ll have more success long term finding a manny bates or Warren Washington type in the portal.
To do that in the next couple of years will require multiple players to leave.
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I wish I was as optimistic as most of you on here.
I think this is going to be a rough year with no post season. I don't think MU upgraded their roster like most other Big East teams did and our non-conference is not a cakewalk.
I'll root hard each game but not expecting much this year.
I tend to agree. I hope MU wins the Ft Myers tourney with strong play, reps well vs Baylor and beats RED, but the final 6:30 of the Radford game has me worried we’ll see a lot more of THAT in conference play.
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The idea that you can turn on some press conference and determine if a coach has "it" or not is so, so funny.
Go listen to a Bill Bellichick or Coach K interview. Some of the greatest coaches to ever coach sports.
Then there are tons of coaches with charisma who stink at coaching.
Yep.
Nick Sirianni had the worst introductory press conference in the history of introductory press conferences. Turns out he's OK at coaching.
I do think Shaka is a far better coach than Wojo, but their respective press conference skills are irrelevant,
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The idea that you can turn on some press conference and determine if a coach has "it" or not is so, so funny.
Go listen to a Bill Bellichick or Coach K interview. Some of the greatest coaches to ever coach sports.
Then there are tons of coaches with charisma who stink at coaching.
Dan Campbell had a heck of an introductory press conference.
Shaka may have better press conferences, but Wojo kicked butt with his powerpoint.
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They also don’t play in a vacuum. We’ve seen much stronger BEasts before.
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Yep.
Nick Sirianni had the worst introductory press conference in the history of introductory press conferences. Turns out he's OK at coaching.
I do think Shaka is a far better coach than Wojo, but their respective press conference skills are irrelevant,
While obviously results matter, so does recruiting and marketing the program/university and selling tickets. Wojo was Melba toast and Shaka has a brand. These are also important criteria, especially for a basketball only school.
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Time will tell if Shaka can make MU basketball into a winning brand, but Shaka the person has already proven to me that he is someone that I am proud is representing MU basketball and MU in general.
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I enjoy him, too.
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The idea that you can turn on some press conference and determine if a coach has "it" or not is so, so funny.
Go listen to a Bill Bellichick or Coach K interview. Some of the greatest coaches to ever coach sports.
Then there are tons of coaches with charisma who stink at coaching.
True. But most of those horrible-but-charismatic coaches haven't been to a Final Four and made numerous NCAAT appearances with three different schools, including most recently one that far exceeded expectations.
As is the case with just about all P6 basketball coaches, Shaka ultimately will be judged at Marquette by how much he wins in March, so we'll see whether he will recruit and coach well enough to do that.
But he obviously has the ability to relate to today's athletes while also getting high effort out of them. So those of us who prefer to be optimistic rather than sh!tting on everything are excited about the program's potential under Shaka Smart.
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While obviously results matter, so does recruiting and marketing the program/university and selling tickets. Wojo was Melba toast and Shaka has a brand. These are also important criteria, especially for a basketball only school.
If Marquette and/or Shaka are counting on press conference skills as important factors in recruiting and brand-building, both are doomed.
The only time anyone outside the bubble notices a press conference is when it's a trainwreck (see: Nick Sirianni) or the coach loses his damn mind (see: Mike Gundy). There are no casual fans or recruits rushing over to the Marquette YouTube channel to check out Shaka's postgame comments on Radford.
The reality is, we're a bunch of doofuses on the far outside looking in, and so we grasp on to the silly, largely irrelevant stuff we're allowed to see (press conferences, timeout huddles, postgame lockerroom celebrations, slaps of five) and make a big deal about them, because it's all we got.
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The idea that you can turn on some press conference and determine if a coach has "it" or not is so, so funny.
Go listen to a Bill Bellichick or Coach K interview. Some of the greatest coaches to ever coach sports.
Then there are tons of coaches with charisma who stink at coaching.
On the surface, you make a good point. However, there is quite a difference between the current college basketball recruiting dynamics, and those in 1980 when Coach K started building his brand at Duke. Also, at the pro level of course, the GMs and coaches have full control over who they draft and retain? College basketball recruiting? The kids have all the leverage.
At a school like Marquette, you need a coach with charisma, charm, vision, intellect. Shaka has all 4. And he arrived at MU with a Final Four on his resume and a lot of NCAA appearances, albeit, not much NCAA success in the recent past.
The point Panda made was valid - We can't conflate the struggles of the Wojo era with how things will go with Shaka.
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If Marquette and/or Shaka are counting on press conference skills as important factors in recruiting and brand-building, both are doomed.
The only time anyone outside the bubble notices a press conference is when it's a trainwreck (see: Nick Sirianni) or the coach loses his damn mind (see: Mike Gundy). There are no casual fans or recruits rushing over to the Marquette YouTube channel to check out Shaka's postgame comments on Radford.
The reality is, we're a bunch of doofuses on the far outside looking in, and so we grasp on to the silly, largely irrelevant stuff we're allowed to see (press conferences, timeout huddles, postgame lockerroom celebrations, slaps of five) and make a big deal about them, because it's all we got.
The value of the press conference to assess a coach's chops is that it gives us a look into how he will come off in the homes of recruits. I don't expect kids to watch YouTube press conferences, yet wouldn't put it past the parents of recruits considering coming to MU or any other school - to see how the coach conducts himself.
Shaka comes off as thoughtful, sharp, likable, sincere - which I assume translates in the home of recruits too.
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The value of the press conference to assess a coach's chops is that it gives us a look into how he will come off in the homes of recruits. I don't expect kids to watch YouTube press conferences, yet wouldn't put it past the parents of recruits considering coming to MU or any other school - to see how the coach conducts himself.
Shaka comes off as thoughtful, sharp, likable, sincere - which I assume translates in the home of recruits too.
Wojo's recruiting wasn't the issue. He pulled in higher ranked talent than what Shaka is pulling in. So the boring press conferences didn't seem to give much indication as to how Wojo would be in a recruit's living room.
Sean Miller seems boring. He find$ way$ to lure in recruit$ anyway$. Rick Barnes pretty boring. Greg Gard pretty boring. Tony Bennett. Dana Altman. Mark Few.
Bob Huggins. Bill Self. They're all over the place. You don't have to win the press conference to win recruiting battles.
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If you do not already know that Shaka is a big time recruiter, you have not been following college basketball for the past decade plus. Now, while some on here (myself included) are hoping we recruit some 4-5 stars down the road, it seems that every kid that did announce MU highlighted Shaka the person as part of the reason for coming to MU. I have zero doubt that Shaka is an elite recruiter, and it is in large part due to his personality and how he relates to younger players.
My earlier post on Shaka had nothing to do with how the kind of person he is will translate into on court success. I was pointing out that I think he is a grand slam hire off the court for MU. I have yet to meet a person that does not speak highly of Shaka as a person.
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Shaka's past recruiting wins mean nothing now. The top recruits he was able to get for Texas ... he won't get most of them now. And we need him to get better recruits for Marquette than he did at VCU. Plus, it's a different world now than just 2 years ago, let alone 10 years ago.
For example, I am thrilled Shaka is our coach, yet I am disappointed he wasn't able to bring in a transfer who could back up Oso. It's OK to say that IMHO -- I want us to be great!
I don't give a darn about whether or not he "wins the press conference." But I do like a guy who can relate to today's kids while also getting the most out of them, and by all accounts that appears to be the case with Shaka. If one wants to call that "charisma" or some other word ... whatevs, he seems to have it.
Now, whether or not all of the above will translate into consistent winning -- and for me that means NCAAT appearances and March runs -- we'll see!
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I strongly disagree on your comments on recruiting and past results. To me, recruiting is picking the guys you think are right for the program and winning that recruiting battle. I'll take our chances on Shaka winning the battle and time will tell if he is targeting the right guys.
I will add, if past recruiting means nothing, why was he hired? If he was hired because of FF 10+ years ago I think the powers at MU need to dig a bit deeper into a guy's resume. Aside from Shaka being a great guy, past recruiting would be very high on reasons why he was hired.
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This particular core (Kam, Stevie, Kolek, OMax, Joplin, Oso, Gold) has huge potential(Elite Eight or Final Four with a transfer or two) if they all stick around 1-2 years. We don't have a Markus Howard, but the team (and coach) is better than anything we've seen during the Wojo years. I WISH WISH WISH JLew would've stuck around (and he probably does too).
Winning an NCAA game this year would be a big stepping stone and should be the expectation. Trajectory has also been concerning the last several years going back to Wojo. I expect to see the team peaking in February and March rather than November.
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If Marquette and/or Shaka are counting on press conference skills as important factors in recruiting and brand-building, both are doomed.
The only time anyone outside the bubble notices a press conference is when it's a trainwreck (see: Nick Sirianni) or the coach loses his damn mind (see: Mike Gundy). There are no casual fans or recruits rushing over to the Marquette YouTube channel to check out Shaka's postgame comments on Radford.
The reality is, we're a bunch of doofuses on the far outside looking in, and so we grasp on to the silly, largely irrelevant stuff we're allowed to see (press conferences, timeout huddles, postgame lockerroom celebrations, slaps of five) and make a big deal about them, because it's all we got.
I feel insulted
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This particular core (Kam, Stevie, Kolek, OMax, Joplin, Oso, Gold) has huge potential(Elite Eight or Final Four with a transfer or two) if they all stick around 1-2 years. We don't have a Markus Howard, but the team (and coach) is better than anything we've seen during the Wojo years. I WISH WISH WISH JLew would've stuck around (and he probably does too).
Winning an NCAA game this year would be a big stepping stone and should be the expectation. Trajectory has also been concerning the last several years going back to Wojo. I expect to see the team peaking in February and March rather than November.
This outcome for Justin is far better than him coming back and tearing his ACL in the Summer before playing year 3 at Marquette.
At least this way he can say he went with his heart. No regrets.
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This outcome for Justin is far better than him coming back and tearing his ACL in the Summer before playing year 3 at Marquette.
At least this way he can say he went with his heart. No regrets.
Butterfly effect. He’s sadly never in the gym where he tears his ACL if he stays put. I’m not discrediting the decision it’s just crapty the way it all worked out.
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This outcome for Justin is far better than him coming back and tearing his ACL in the Summer before playing year 3 at Marquette.
At least this way he can say he went with his heart. No regrets.
I am not saying Justin made a bad decision in any way. There are still a lot of factors for him.
But its ludicrous to imply he tears his acl if he stays.
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I am not saying Justin made a bad decision in any way. There are still a lot of factors for him.
But its ludicrous to imply he tears his acl if he stays.
I'm not saying he would have. But this outcome is better for him had he come back and done something similar.
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Wojo's Stan Johnson'srecruiting wasn't the issue. He pulled in higher ranked talent than what Shaka is pulling in. So the boring press conferences didn't seem to give much indication as to how Wojo would be in a recruit's living room.
Sean Miller seems boring. He find$ way$ to lure in recruit$ anyway$. Rick Barnes pretty boring. Greg Gard pretty boring. Tony Bennett. Dana Altman. Mark Few.
Bob Huggins. Bill Self. They're all over the place. You don't have to win the press conference to win recruiting battles.
Fixed. 8-) But, you are correct in that coaching was Wojo's biggest weakness.
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I'm not saying he would have. But this outcome is better for him had he come back and done something similar.
Is it though? He could’ve taken a medical redshirt, came back and proven himself again on the college stage. Now he’s unemployed, rehabbing from an ACL injury on his own dime and time.
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Is it though? He could’ve taken a medical redshirt, came back and proven himself again on the college stage. Now he’s unemployed, rehabbing from an ACL injury on his own dime and time.
He may be unemployed but I sincerely doubt he’s doing any rehab on his own dime. He’s still around the Bulls if not officially under contract.
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Fixed. 8-) But, you are correct in that coaching was Wojo's biggest weakness.
Ah got it. Yeah, top recruits usually pick what assistant coaches they want to play for.
So then when Wojo landed 3 starters on this year's deep, talented roster, plus one of the top transfers in the country, while Stan was off to LMU it was thanks to...Killings, I guess.
Again, looking to who wins the press conference and deciding that guy can recruit because he's can walk into a living room and sell a recruit makes no sense. Wojo was landing the higher ranked recruits despite losing the press conferences. Tons of boring coaches out there absolutely kill it in recruiting. It's a lazy argument.
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Is it though? He could’ve taken a medical redshirt, came back and proven himself again on the college stage. Now he’s unemployed, rehabbing from an ACL injury on his own dime and time.
He is rehabbing on Bulls coin unless they lied in their tweeter feed. Which leads to believe they're interested in him.
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Is it though? He could’ve taken a medical redshirt, came back and proven himself again on the college stage. Now he’s unemployed, rehabbing from an ACL injury on his own dime and time.
He probably does not tear his ACL if he stayed at MU.
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He probably does not tear his ACL if he stayed at MU.
Why? He was training on his own not Bulls related. Probably would have been doing same off season while at MU. You understand these guys while at MU do that, right?
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Why? He was training on his own not Bulls related. Probably would have been doing same off season while at MU. You understand these guys while at MU do that, right?
So he would have been on the exact same court and the exact same time if he was at MU?
You realize most ACL injuries are a complete fluke due to the moment right?
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Maybe he would have ruptured his Achilles instead.
It’s a dopey argument.
I blame Wojo for the injury, anyway.
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So he would have been on the exact same court and the exact same time if he was at MU?
You realize most ACL injuries are a complete fluke due to the moment right?
Yes and your point is? Could happen whenever and he is getting Bulls best care.
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Yes and your point is? Could happen whenever and he is getting Bulls best care.
My point was blatant you appear to daft to see it.
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The late season fade last year was disheartening, but in the end Shaka did take something and produce more than the sum of its parts.
If he can do that again this year (i.e. make the tourney - win a game there) I would feel really good about the trajectory - especially if there's no backsliding into March. Success begets success and if Shaka can bring in just a bit better talent (while continuing to make the talent more than the sum of its parts) we're back where we want to be - a program that is consistently thinking about late March runs.
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Anyway you cut it, he had body language
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Anyway you cut it, he had body language
Yeah it was better for the team that he left.
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After listening to Shaka's post-game interview this AM and reading the comments on that thread, I think getting this up today is timely.
When Shaka was hired, I thought that being the BE #3 in year 3 would be an attainable goal. Since then, Jay left Nova and Matta and Miller have been added to the BE mix along with Holloway. Gonzaga may join, so the coaches (and possibly a team) have been/will be added to the BE scenario. Yet with the possible exception of Gonzaga joining the BE, "3 in 3" is still my take.
Getting back to the thread title, Shaka Year 2, this year I expect exactly what Shaka said in his Purdue post-game interview- "our goal is to grow". I am not expecting a season significantly better or worse than last year, although I do think we will finish stronger at the end for a change.
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Clearly I set the bar on these options too low, but amazing that 50%+ would have been happy with just making the tourney this year (or less).
I'd say this season is turning out better than anyone's wildest dreams. We were apparently all COLE - even Goose.
I am going with my prediction from last year, safely in NCAA by end of February January. Top five one in BE and one NCAA win title.
Now to get that sweet sweet tourney success.
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If you don't think this team will dance, it's because you don't realize how F*ck'n good Tyler Kolek is.
Buckle up.
Playing on Friday at MSG
Playing for a trip to the S16
Let’s Dance
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Year 2 so far:
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/WrJ8x0niiblWEoo7hE/giphy.gif)
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Safe to say that we have proof of concept.
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It has been an unreal season and the team/program has way exceeded my high expectations. IMO, the team chemistry has been one of the biggest reasons behind the success this season. It really is a special team bond, and it shows what working for a common goal can accomplish. To keep a group of young guys on the same page for entire season is no easy task.
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It has been an unreal season and the team/program has way exceeded my high expectations. IMO, the team chemistry has been one of the biggest reasons behind the success this season. It really is a special team bond, and it shows what working for a common goal can accomplish. To keep a group of young guys on the same page for entire season is no easy task.
We got this season what I'd thought we'd get next. We got last season, what I expected this season. Clearly Shaka is way ahead of plan and shows the value of getting "your guys" on the roster from the get go even if you didn't originally sign them.
I think there is no other sign how good Shaka is in fitting the pieces into the whole than Kam and Stevie (and even Justin). No way would Shaka have ever recruited them, yet he has made them all into key pieces. And they bought in fully which says a lot about them but even more about Shaka.
As a fan, nothing says it more than the Vesties actually getting out of their seats.
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Dr. B
I fall into the vestie age group, but this old guy gets out of his seat, even if at home watching on TV. But, I agree that it sure looks like all MU fans have bought into the Shaka era. I had two guys, my age, come up to me after Mass yesterday to talk MU basketball. I frickin love it!!!
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We got this season what I'd thought we'd get next. We got last season, what I expected this season. Clearly Shaka is way ahead of plan and shows the value of getting "your guys" on the roster from the get go even if you didn't originally sign them.
I think there is no other sign how good Shaka is in fitting the pieces into the whole than Kam and Stevie (and even Justin). No way would Shaka have ever recruited them, yet he has made them all into key pieces. And they bought in fully which says a lot about them but even more about Shaka.
As a fan, nothing says it more than the Vesties actually getting out of their seats.
I could see Shaka trying to recruit Stevie out of HS, but yeah, not Kam.
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Dr. B
I fall into the vestie age group, but this old guy gets out of his seat, even if at home watching on TV. But, I agree that it sure looks like all MU fans have bought into the Shaka era. I had two guys, my age, come up to me after Mass yesterday to talk MU basketball. I frickin love it!!!
Vestie isn't an age, it's a mentality. For years I sat right behind Father Wild and Bill in the Vestie Section of the BC and we were the most animated and basketball savvy of the bunch. Rick Smith wears a sweater vest but he ain't no Vestie.
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Let’s Dance
https://youtu.be/VbD_kBJc_gI
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https://youtu.be/VbD_kBJc_gI
I'm a big IG stories guy and this song was 100% in my head when I typed that reply.
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Let’s Dance for a month.
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Let’s Dance for a month.
We had a family dinner last night (Carini's, exceptional) and I made it very clear that the weekends of
Mar 9-12
Mar 16-19
Mar 23-26
April 1-3
Were to be planned & programed at your own risk. The one and only priority was #mubb. Now granted I give this same talk every late Feb, but this is the first time in a decade they actually listened.
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I wish I was as optimistic as most of you on here.
I think this is going to be a rough year with no post season. I don't think MU upgraded their roster like most other Big East teams did and our non-conference is not a cakewalk.
I'll root hard each game but not expecting much this year.
Going to do some self-criticism here. I was 100% wrong about the outlook for this season. Got caught up in recruiting rankings and lack of transfer upgrades and did not have enough confidence in the ability of the staff to develop the players returning from last year. Also put too much emphasis on Shaka's Texas years.
I did root hard each game, saw about 4 in person at Fiserv, the Georgetown road game and last Saturday at MSG. I am so glad I was wrong. I am a convert. I will have some crow with my pre-game corn-beef sandwich on Friday.
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Going to do some self-criticism here. I was 100% wrong about the outlook for this season. Got caught up in recruiting rankings and lack of transfer upgrades and did not have enough confidence in the ability of the staff to develop the players returning from last year. Also put too much emphasis on Shaka's Texas years.
I did root hard each game, saw about 4 in person at Fiserv, the Georgetown road game and last Saturday at MSG. I am so glad I was wrong. I am a convert. I will have some crow with my pre-game corn-beef sandwich on Friday.
If this sort of post doesn't get someone banned, I'm not sure what would! This kind of material is clearly not the type of thing that belongs on Scoop.
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If you don't think this team will dance, it's because you don't realize how F*ck'n good Tyler Kolek is.
Buckle up.
Playing on Friday at MSG
Playing for a trip to the S16
Daaamn. :o
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If Marquette and/or Shaka are counting on press conference skills as important factors in recruiting and brand-building, both are doomed.
The only time anyone outside the bubble notices a press conference is when it's a trainwreck (see: Nick Sirianni) or the coach loses his damn mind (see: Mike Gundy). There are no casual fans or recruits rushing over to the Marquette YouTube channel to check out Shaka's postgame comments on Radford.
The reality is, we're a bunch of doofuses on the far outside looking in, and so we grasp on to the silly, largely irrelevant stuff we're allowed to see (press conferences, timeout huddles, postgame lockerroom celebrations, slaps of five) and make a big deal about them, because it's all we got.
This didn't age well either.
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Going to do some self-criticism here. I was 100% wrong about the outlook for this season. Got caught up in recruiting rankings and lack of transfer upgrades and did not have enough confidence in the ability of the staff to develop the players returning from last year. Also put too much emphasis on Shaka's Texas years.
I did root hard each game, saw about 4 in person at Fiserv, the Georgetown road game and last Saturday at MSG. I am so glad I was wrong. I am a convert. I will have some crow with my pre-game corn-beef sandwich on Friday.
If you need crow recipes we have a whole thread with ideas
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Daaamn. :o
Maybe I know ball?
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I'll leave it to the current Knowers of Ball to make that determination, but I believe the proletariat are voting yes.
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If you don't think this team will dance, it's because you don't realize how F*ck'n good Tyler Kolek is.
Buckle up.
Playing on Friday at MSG
Playing for a trip to the S16
to say this and what goose has been drilling prophetic is the understatement of the year...so what hot stocks ya got in mind