MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: MU82 on September 27, 2022, 12:33:33 PM
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His sister died in the Parkland massacre. He wants the gunman to live.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/09/27/parkland-school-shooting-trial-death-penalty/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F380a929%2F63331d84f3d9003c58f54a24%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F72%2F63331d84f3d9003c58f54a24&wp_cu=b1005792a416de1fbe1f17e5cf366b7d%7CB1FF71CA724A36FAE0530100007F88D6
Even 3,200 miles away in a new city, he struggled to avoid news out of the Fort Lauderdale courtroom where jurors will soon decide whether Cruz lives or dies. Since the proceedings began in July, they have reviewed nightmarish surveillance footage, toured bloodstained classrooms and heard, in clinical detail, how AR-15 bullets destroyed young bodies. Robert refused to watch, but when he thought about prosecutors mentioning Carmen, he got angry. Then he started typing.
“I have been dreading this phase of the trial for the last four and a half years,” he posted on Twitter. “Because this is the part where people will tell me that retribution will bring ‘justice’ and ‘healing’ to me and my family. This is the part where pundits on TV will invoke the name of my sister to support the murder of another human being.”
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That's very kind.
There is no way this thread ends well. C'mon, Mike.
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He’s a better person than I.
As someone who knows an ER doctor that treated the Parkland victims and heard a bit of the description of the carnage, I would like nothing more than to see the shooter fry.
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my wife and I differ on the death penalty. She's 100% for it, I think it should be used only when there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt the accused perpetrated the crime. In this case, we're both on the same page and believe the shooter should be sentenced to death.
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my wife and I differ on the death penalty. She's 100% for it, I think it should be used only when there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt the accused perpetrated the crime. In this case, we're both on the same page and believe the shooter should be sentenced to death.
Agree. I’m pretty on the fence and indifferent about it in general. Repealing that is a discussion for another day though. I don’t think this case would be the one to make an exception for. Personally, I think it’s kind of dumb since it’s 10-20 years before they are put to death anyway. The family really gets no closure either way.
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His sister died in the Parkland massacre. He wants the gunman to live.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/09/27/parkland-school-shooting-trial-death-penalty/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F380a929%2F63331d84f3d9003c58f54a24%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F72%2F63331d84f3d9003c58f54a24&wp_cu=b1005792a416de1fbe1f17e5cf366b7d%7CB1FF71CA724A36FAE0530100007F88D6
Even 3,200 miles away in a new city, he struggled to avoid news out of the Fort Lauderdale courtroom where jurors will soon decide whether Cruz lives or dies. Since the proceedings began in July, they have reviewed nightmarish surveillance footage, toured bloodstained classrooms and heard, in clinical detail, how AR-15 bullets destroyed young bodies. Robert refused to watch, but when he thought about prosecutors mentioning Carmen, he got angry. Then he started typing.
“I have been dreading this phase of the trial for the last four and a half years,” he posted on Twitter. “Because this is the part where people will tell me that retribution will bring ‘justice’ and ‘healing’ to me and my family. This is the part where pundits on TV will invoke the name of my sister to support the murder of another human being.”
I agree with what he says.
Of course, the gunman ‘deserves’ to die, but with the death penalty we all become murderers. Not worth it for a few moments of revenge.
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I agree with what he says.
Of course, the gunman ‘deserves’ to die, but with the death penalty we all become murderers. Not worth it for a few moments of revenge.
So being sentenced to death for such a heinous crime is revenge, not justice. I always thought life in prison without parole is a worse fate than death, but then there is aways a Governor or President granting a pardon. Regardless, a part of him will away be broken and nothing will bring her back.
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That's very kind.
There is no way this thread ends well. C'mon, Mike.
I think people can maturely talk about an important topic.
For the record, I agree with the young man whose sister was killed. I like to think I would still agree with him if a loved one of mine had been killed, but it's not as easy to know how I would react if actually faced with such horror and sorrow. I hope that I -- and the rest of us here -- never have to find out.
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So being sentenced to death for such a heinous crime is revenge, not justice. I always thought life in prison without parole is a worse fate than death, but then there is aways a Governor or President granting a pardon. Regardless, a part of him will away be broken and nothing will bring her back.
Here we go. A pretend pro-lifer calling for death.
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Here we go. A pretend pro-lifer calling for death.
Can we keep it civil?
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Eliminate the death penalty, it’s inhumane and courts have been proven to not always get it right.
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Can we keep it civil?
Is that rhetorical?
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Here we go. A pretend pro-lifer calling for death.
Well, that didn't take long.
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my wife and I differ on the death penalty. She's 100% for it, I think it should be used only when there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt the accused perpetrated the crime. In this case, we're both on the same page and believe the shooter should be sentenced to death.
Beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of proof for all convictions.
If what you say is true then you support capital punishment for all convictions, or you support convictions where the state proves guilt by some standard lower than beyond a reasonable doubt.
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I embrace Catholic social teaching on the death penalty. I acknowledge my imperfections for all Catholic social teaching. But this one I embrace.
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Does it deter violent crime? Doubtful
Does it satiate the bloodlust of a society numbed by violence? Probably
Eat at Arby’s
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The only compelling argument for the death penalty is retribution. And I'm not dismissing that... retribution feels good. It feels right. It feels like justice.
But other than that, what's the point? There's no evidence that it deters serious crime or murder. It typically costs taxpayers way more to execute someone than to lock them up for life. And there are literally dozens of cases in which a person sentenced to death has later been exonerated. It's a virtual guarantee that other innocent people haven't been so fortunate.
So, I guess it comes down to whether the feeling of retribution is worth supporting a costly, ineffective system that risks an innocent being murdered by the state in my name.
For me, it's not.
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In before this thread gets the death penalty.
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In before this thread gets the death penalty.
I pray that the mods kill it in the most humane manner possible.
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I am against the death penalty except for one very specific situation. If someone who has already received life in prison murders or attempts to murder someone else in prison. I may not be thinking about it logically, but my thought is that I don't like the idea of someone who has already received the worst possible punishment being given multiple chances to end someone else's life. The only other alternative I can think of is keeping a person like that in isolation but to me that is a crueler punishment than death.
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I think people can maturely talk about an important topic.
For the record, I agree with the young man whose sister was killed. I like to think I would still agree with him if a loved one of mine had been killed, but it's not as easy to know how I would react if actually faced with such horror and sorrow. I hope that I -- and the rest of us here -- never have to find out.
very well said 82
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The only compelling argument for the death penalty is retribution. And I'm not dismissing that... retribution feels good. It feels right. It feels like justice.
But other than that, what's the point? There's no evidence that it deters serious crime or murder. It typically costs taxpayers way more to execute someone than to lock them up for life. And there are literally dozens of cases in which a person sentenced to death has later been exonerated. It's a virtual guarantee that other innocent people haven't been so fortunate.
So, I guess it comes down to whether the feeling of retribution is worth supporting a costly, ineffective system that risks an innocent being murdered by the state in my name.
For me, it's not.
These are precisely my sentiments. Very well laid out.
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Where’s Jackie?
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my wife and I differ on the death penalty. She's 100% for it, I think it should be used only when there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt the accused perpetrated the crime. In this case, we're both on the same page and believe the shooter should be sentenced to death.
So your wife is 100% for it……but doesn’t need any evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to come to this conclusion??
She just wants it used more often?
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The only compelling argument for the death penalty is retribution. And I'm not dismissing that... retribution feels good. It feels right. It feels like justice.
But other than that, what's the point? There's no evidence that it deters serious crime or murder. It typically costs taxpayers way more to execute someone than to lock them up for life. And there are literally dozens of cases in which a person sentenced to death has later been exonerated. It's a virtual guarantee that other innocent people haven't been so fortunate.
So, I guess it comes down to whether the feeling of retribution is worth supporting a costly, ineffective system that risks an innocent being murdered by the state in my name.
For me, it's not.
yep. I am 100% against the death penalty. I don't like making the financial arguments, though, because pro death penalty people would argue that the state needs to speed up the time on "death row", or just throw them back in genpop to save $$.
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So your wife is 100% for it……but doesn’t need any evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to come to this conclusion??
She just wants it used more often?
Taking what he wrote literally, then she simply requires less evidence than "beyond a reasonable doubt" to convict and condemn the accused.
Setting aside what I think of her position, I will grant her this: most people who argue for the liberal imposition and increased use of the death penalty don't have the courage of their convictions to come out and say that they don't care if innocent people are executed.
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I pray that the mods kill it in the most humane manner possible.
The inflation transitory thread is 1000 times more political than this one, and it's well into Page 10.
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More viewpoints from people whose loved ones were gunned down in another mass shooting (Buffalo):
Months after his mother, Geraldine, and nine other Black people died in a Buffalo grocery store at the hands of a White gunman, Mark Talley still wrestles with a question that haunts the victims’ families: What is the appropriate punishment for the perpetrator of such a heinous, racist crime?
“Some days, I want him killed in the most painful way — take it back to Genghis Khan’s time, give him as much pain as possible,” Talley said in a telephone interview this week. But in other moments of reflection, Talley, who recently launched a nonprofit community organization called “Agents for Advocacy,” has another view: “I don’t want death. I want him to suffer in jail” for the rest of his life. ...
Zeneta B. Everhart, whose son Zaire Goodman, 21, was wounded by a gunshot to the neck, said they both have expressed to prosecutors a preference for life in prison if Gendron is convicted.
“I do not think death-for-death is a solution for the problem,” said Everhart, who testified before a congressional panel on gun control in June and addressed the Eradicate Hate Global Summit in Pittsburgh on domestic extremism last week. “The problem this person had will not end when he dies. It does not erase the racism. The bigger issue is that he was radicalized into hating Black people.” ...
In an interview with ABC News last month, Wayne Jones and Garnell Whitfield Jr. — whose mothers, Celestine Chaney and Ruth Whitfield, respectively, were among those killed — said they were not advocating for the death penalty.
Jones said authorities risk turning Gendron, who investigators say wrote a 700-page manifesto sketching plans for the attack, into a martyr for white supremacists if he is put to death. Whitfield called Gendron an “insignificant pawn” in a racist system and said he would focus his attention on combating “the things that empowered him and the reason he became who he was.” Like Everhart, Whitfield appeared at the global anti-hate summit in Pittsburgh last week. ...
Monica Barnett, whose cousin Pearl Young was killed in the Buffalo shooting, wrote a column for MSNBC days after the massacre reflecting on Young’s teaching career and work operating a food pantry for the homeless. Barnett, a stylist and branding expert based in Washington, D.C., suggested Young, 77, would have forgiven Gendron and prayed with him. In an interview this week, Barnett said the essay drew some criticism from her relatives, whom she described as split over Gendron’s fate.
“We’re a religious family. We were raised in the church. But it doesn’t preclude us having these emotions over someone we lost,” Barnett said. “From that perspective, half the family is like, ‘Yeah, sentencing him to death is the answer. That’s the way to seek justice.’ The other half is just like, ‘No, that’s not the right thing. None of that brings Pearl back.’ ”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/29/buffalo-hate-crimes-gendron/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F380f78d%2F6335c1eaf3d9003c58fa185e%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F41%2F72%2F6335c1eaf3d9003c58fa185e&wp_cu=b1005792a416de1fbe1f17e5cf366b7d%7CB1FF71CA724A36FAE0530100007F88D6